| Wikipedia Mediation Cabal | |
|---|---|
 | |
| Article | Eastern Mediterranean University |
| Status | closed |
| Request date | 06:12, 16 July 2008 (UTC) |
| Requesting party | Unknown |
| Mediator(s) | «l| Ψrom3th3ăn ™|l» (talk) |
| Comment | PRobably already 90% complete |
[[Category:Wikipedia Medcab closed cases|Eastern Mediterranean University]][[Category:Wikipedia medcab maintenance|Eastern Mediterranean University]]
Who are the involved parties?[edit]
2knowledgeable ; mcyp
What's going on?[edit]
I was recently accused of "vandalism" in editing an article on "Eastern Mediterranean University" in Northern Cyprus. I find that this is an unfair accusation in my case. The information that I appended to the article is true, well documented, and relevant to the topic of "Eastern Mediterranean University." The information is not positive from the point of view of the institution discussed: It raises resent documentation of racism, unfair labor practice and corruption at EMU in local and international press. But Since this is an "encyclopedia" and our interest is supposed to be in knowledge, then not only positive and glorifying information should be appended to a subject, but all relevant information. Certainly, when such serious criteria are applied to the article, it becomes immediately obvious that Eastern Mediterranean University is truly not in item worth an entry in an encyclopedia. However, if the editor insists that this is an item worthy of scholarly distinction, then s/he should allow all relevant points of view.
mcyp's reply[edit]
Some one probably account holder of 2knowledgeable, most probably had a problematic experience in EMU and accuse whole university as practicing "racism, mobbing, bullying and anti-Semitism". and would like to add these adjectives in to EMU wikipedia article. [1]. I beleive individual behaviour should not be attribute to whole community. That is not objective. If some individuals practice these bad things on him/her (2knowledgeable) , my deepest sympaty with 2knowledgeable. But I believe there are much better ways to seek his rights, not a wikipedia article on an institution.
Please consider these point.
1. If school is "racist" why it employs very large spectrum of international faculty. Check partial list in the article [2] and for complete list [3].
2. If school is "ani-semitic", Would you please tell why EMU hires an Israeli Professor in the architecture department [4]. More over, I know personally that there are research groups in Engineering who has contacts with Technion, Israel for research. And many professor's going to Israel for a conference or similar Academic event. Dont' you thing accusing whole comminity of EMU like this is unbalanced?
3. 2knowledgeable accused me of "doing advertisement for School and imply I am paid for that"! [5]It is completely false. I am just a graduate of that school and doing my PhD in Physics Germany's one of the most distinguished school. And I know so many people graduating from EMU and continue in Europe or USA for a further study. No way affiliated to admins in EMU in anyway, today or in the past. Getting single penny from anyone for editing this article. I am a native Turkish Cypriot and just would like to contribute to wikipedia something I do know. Please check my other contributions. How on earth I do it for money? Most of my edits are academic related!
4. Things are not heaven-like of course in North Cyprus. But it is not that extreme as 2knowledgeable suggest. There is a recent academic freedom case in North Cyprus, namely Lefke University who has accused of not giving proper rights to academic faculty. And there are NGO's and other Teacher's union working against that. [6] I will strongly suggest 2knowledgeable to bring his/her case with the teachers union of North Cyprus [7]. It is very serious problem. I can help her/him to contact Union's and Teacher's Federations. There is no Academic level union but teacher's union can help. An union can raise your issue in very high in the public and in political grounds.
5. 2knowledgeable has only 1 contribution to wikipedia. Namely EMU article! It is not so nice to have a conflict in your first edit. (Please check my contribution's to wikipedia too, how many of them have a conflict like 2knowledgeable has.)
6. More over in my first correspondence to 2knowledgeable [8]. I have already said that his accusations are very very serious and generalizing whole institution based on his own experience, editing wikipedia article of this institution is sort of vandalism.
7. I also deeply worried if some one in the department you were working in EMU behave in that way you have explained. Please accept my sympaty. But this does not justify your accusation to whole community. Does it?
8. 2knowledgeable should reveal his relation with EMU and if he/she experience this while he/she was a faculty member there.
9. More over please re-consider calling me "dishonest"! Why don't you reveal real identity of yourself or person who was victim of these bad things in EMU then? You must do that if you are sincerely believe that you were a victim.
I would like to close this section a sentence from Dr. Vint Cerf [9] : "But the power of the Internet is like a two-edged sword. It can also deliver misinformation and uncorroborated opinion with equal ease. The thoughtful and the thoughtless co-exist side by side in the Internet's electronic universe. What's to be done?"
--mcyp (talk) 23:23, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
What would you like to change about that?[edit]
My best opinion is that the article about "Eastern Mediterranean University" should be removed altogether, as the one-sided presentation of the school bears no scholarly significance. But if the article is to remain, the discussion should allow for opposing voices in regards to this very controversial institution.
Specifically, I would like to mention the following:
1. News items in the press that cite unfair practices and bullying at the school. 2. Discussions by scholars in The Chronicle of Higher Education that lay accusations against the school of racism, anti-Semitism, bullying, and the stifling of academic freedom. 3. Ethnic and gender ratios that demonstrate its unbalanced hiring practices. 4. The resignation of all (two) Jewish faculty members from the school.
mcyp's reply[edit]
Please reveal your name or the person (for example Joe Smith) who has experience this, and create an other article called Eastern Mediterranean University Joe Smith Case. And then we/you can create a section in EMU article called "Scandals" and link to your article. Which is really a SCANDAL.
But for other two cases you have mensioned it is a political problem, and urge you or person in this situation to contact with Teacher's union of North Cyprus [10]. But I am just saying friendly that the points you have mensioned above sounds a political agenda, specially "The resignation of all (two) Jewish faculty members from the school.", wikipedia can not help you on that.
I should add that, you or the person who has experience this bullying accept my warm sympaty and understanding. And you or the person of course every right to share this information with the whole world.
Other than that removing the whole article or its current parts will be very unfair to good people in EMU.
--mcyp (talk) 23:24, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
Mediator notes[edit]
Mediation closed, Well done on sorting out out amongst yourselve, your maturity is admirable. «l| Ψrom3th3ăn ™|l» (talk) 03:48, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
Administrative notes[edit]
Discussion[edit]
Please help me to safeguard Wikipedia from providing free advertisement to institution regardless of quality and merit.
- I copy-edited the intro. I know this university and was shocked to read this accusation. Let's see some reliable sources to back it up. --Adoniscik(t, c) 17:24, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
I heard from some people that there was a case in ELH (English Language and Humanities) department, a professor had problems with the whole department, his name was D. A. D. But I can not back it up from any published source. It is shocking indeed.
Warm Regards,
--mcyp (talk) 18:18, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
No reliable source, no case; this is the Wikipedia way. Wait until a reputable newspaper picks it up. Otherwise how are we to verify the accusation's veracity? --Adoniscik(t, c) 21:08, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
Your Sources Have been Erased: You Have No Case…[edit]
With due respect, I did list two newspaper articles and a serious web source attesting to the facts that I appended. However, these were promptly deleted by mcyp… then claiming that I have no sources. Is this the Wikpedia way, Adoniscik?
I will not pick a lengthy argument with mcyp, because my request is not that Wikipedia will decide who is right, but simply allow for both sides to be heard. I'll only mention briefly, as an example of mcyp's skewed argument, the Dr. Goldman, whom he mentions, is currently packing his bags. When he will leave next month, EMU will remain a Jew-free institution. It is also "free" of other undesirable minorities. This just in a nutshell.
My appendix to the issue of EMU is also not centered around a single case, as mcyp is arguing forcibly.
I have also noticed that mcyp has a history of keeping "undesired" arguments away from this article. In one place he rejects someone who mentions the problematic status of EMU as a Turkish-Cypriot institution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Eastern_Mediterranean_University ). I am not of the Greek-Cypriot camp, but do you not think that ALL point of views have a right to be heard?
Is Wikipedia taking a decidedly pro-Turkish and anti-Semitic stand here? Is this the Wikipedia way, Adoniscik?
- Please assume good faith. I did not yet see the sources. If they were reliable, and mycp removed them, (s)he should apologize. I will look for them. --Adoniscik(t, c) 14:21, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
- So you sought mediation for just one edit? You should have worked out your differences! I tracked down the Chronicle forum post. While it may be true, I am not sure it would count as a WP:RS. Forums usually don't count, unless frequented by academics, and this is the case here. One problem is that users are not identified. I would take the allegations much more seriously if the users did not hide behind labels. I also noticed that the level of discourse in the forums is not very high; I note there are lots of accusations of trolling. The allegations are serious so it behooves us to be more rigorous than usual, so it is not unreasonable to ask for more sources. Perhaps you should post to the RS noticeboard what they think of the reputability of your sources. I submit that it fails the RS criteria. If they allow you to use it, I would briefly describe the site in the text; something like "According to a forum post in The Chronicle, a site devoted to expatriate academics [or whatever is appropriate], ..." I also encourage you to provide URLs to the sources, whenever possible. --Adoniscik(t, c) 15:17, 18 July 2008 (UTC) --Adoniscik(t, c) 15:17, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
mcyp's reply[edit]
You are politicize every point I said. I'm very disappointed about your accusations to me, they are all FALSE. I have expressed my sympathy for your situation and offer you to help in contacting relevant authorities in the country also said in several places that you have every right to express your experience by creating an other article and and you can link to your article from EMU article. Moreover I agree with you that ALL points of view have a right to be heard. I'm not forcing anything.
It is NOT true that I am keeping 'undesired' arguments, there was one case about property rights in Cyprus that some one wanted to add that EMU was build on Greek Cypriot property, please check [11], I have suggest the same thing, if there was a property right problems article we can link it from EMU. But there is a an article on Cyprus Dispute and those property rights are well known crisis and it is already mensioned in the EMU article!.
Please do create an article and put a link from EMU article as you wish and explain all the cases you know, it is your right and freedom of expression.
I'd like to ask Wikipedia administrators to care about this issue. I'll not edit this article anymore.
--mcyp (talk) 09:20, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
2knowledgeable's reply[edit]
The sources that I listed, in addition to the Chronicle, are two separate news items, referring to two separate cases of abuse against foreign faculty at EMU in the local North Cypriot Newspaper, CyprusTuday, on May 31, 2008 (page 11), and June 21, 2008 (page 3). This is a paper-only source, but it can be verified. Following your suggestion, if mcyp will apologize for deleting those sources (and then claiming that I have none!), I will accept his apology. And I will assume good faith if some good faith will be extended. Now, in mcyp's last post I do see some recognition that I have a right to express an opposing view, and that I should be allowed to do so. My suggestion is that I will be allowed to append a paragraph to the article that will report appropriately and in a scholarly manner on the existing controversy surrounding EMU. Readers have a right to receive this information as well.
---Dear mcyp,
On Adoniscik(t advice [12], I am appending my information to the article. I hope this concludes our issue.
Best wishes. 2knowledgeable (talk)
mcyp's reply[edit]
Dear 2knowledgeable,
First of all, as I said I won't edit the article. I can only humbly suggest you to change following points.
- the sub-title "Controversy Surrounding Eastern Mediterranean University" to "Administrative Misconducts".
- There is no newspaper called Cyprus Tuday, so you must change to Cyprus Today with a wikipedia link.There is no online version of that paper, you must provide scans of the articles or a link to copies. Otherwise it will not be a reliable source.
- Rephrasing the following completely,
"In the reports appearing in the Chronicle of Higher Education, there is also an allegation of anti-Semitism.
EMU does not currently employ Jewish faculty members. Two Israeli faculty members were employed by the school between
2004 and 2008. One Israeli faculty member was forced to resign in February 2008, and the other left the school
shortly afterwards, setting the number of Jewish faculty members at nil."
There is no such thing in Northern Cyprus in general. I beleive you must emphasis strongly that this treatment is an Administrative misconduct and doesn't reflect the people of Northern Cyprus in general. It is also stated in your references as well. Anti-semitism is VERY SERIOUS allegation, and a single forum entry can not be an evidence! I beleive if you put that adjective, it is a gross distortion. I understand that there is an administrative misconduct, so it is nothing to do with religous affiliation!
You must add these references as well for a balanced view.
"..sounds like an average state university... " [13]
"..But i felt there is a very nice side to Turkish Cypriot culture. I have fond memories of Turkish and Turkish Cypriot
acquaintances. Like so many places, I enjoy their culture on a personal level more than American culture but not on a
trust / security level. Just thought I'd add that for a little balance." [14]
"..Thanks, oldcalif, I am happy to endorse your affinity to the Turkish Cypriot people. It should go without saying that my
complaint against Eastern Mediterranean University is not directed against the entire North Cypriot nation and its culture.
But if this does need saying, I am happy to do so..." [15]
If you make the above changes and add a real balance between your feelings and reality, it will be okay.
Please don't get me wrong but, you are an academic person and should know much better then me that generalizing a
communitiy or a race is called racism by definition. I am Turkish Cypriot and I am very offended with your current style of edit.
Best Wishes,
--mcyp (talk) 14:58, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
2knowledgeable's Agreement[edit]
Dear mcyp,
I will try to accommodate the changes that you suggest to the best of my ability. Some of your points are easily accommodated, and others will require more effort. For example, I am not sure how to report more objectively than: "In the reports appearing in the Chronicle of Higher Education, there is also an allegation of anti-Semitism." This seems like neutral language to me, but I will give it some thought. In general, I am open to discussion, and I am happy to collaborate with you in making this section as professional and as objective as possible.
However, please take this comment into account: Anti-Semitism is not a "VERY SERIOUS allegation:" it's a VERY SERIOUS phenomenon. And hushing allegations of anti-Semitism is not the same as solving the problem. North Cyprus and its general population are not the issue here, and the school, as I mentioned, no longer employs Jewish faculty. However, to write that there is simply "no such thing in Northern Cyprus" defies credibility. It sounds like protesting too much.
Best wishes,
mcyp's response[edit]
Dear 2knowledgeable,
I'd like to again humbly suggest the following changes to make
- You need to delete spaces in the first section, to make it easier to read.
- Removal of your signature at the end of your edit. Usually articles are not signed but
only talk pages.
- Putting link to Cyprus Today's wikipedia article, at least with mensioning the
reporters full name as you did before.
- Second paragraphs needs some verifiable sources or citetions, forum discussion maybe.
- These statements also needs citations, each of them seperately. I beleive your account
but, it must be verifiable
"It is important to note, however, that EMU does not currently employ Jewish faculty members. Two Israeli faculty members were employed by the school between 2004 and 2008. One Israeli faculty member was forced to resign in February 2008, and the other left the school shortly afterwards, setting the number of Jewish faculty members at nil."
- You write " ..of anti-Semitism is limited to the school,..". Think like this, the school has at least 10 000 students, many foreign stuff and many more graduates around the world, like myself. Don't you think this statement is overly general and quite unfairly generalize group of people. It is like two edge sword, if you place the statement like this, there will be a room to create artificial prejudice and bias towards group of people, namely people affiliated at some point to EMU, which will be a gross distortion of reality. I beleive, this would be a bit more balanced
"...of anti-national sentiment against foreign faculty is limited to the schools administration at the time [years] mensioned in the forum.." (you could maybe rephrase it in this direction with proper citation)
- In the light of the above, I'd suggest to change sub-title "Allegations of anti-Semitism" to "Allegations of administrative anti-national sentiment" which I beleive would be much more appropriate. Because, In general and historically, Turkish Cypriots has no record at all in that way, you described, and school is belong to society not to administrators'.
I agree with you that Anti-Semitism is a VERY SERIOUS phenomenon, as a part of Anti-national sentiment and Racism. You are an academic and must know much better then me the classification of this type of hostility towards group of people.
I'd like to remind you again with my humble opinion, from my personal account,I am Turkish Cypriot and I can assure you that all people I know in Cyprus personally, they have no hostility towards any group particulary.
I hope your addition to this article urge administrators in EMU to make university more open place and free from racial bias.
Best Wishes,
--mcyp (talk) 11:14, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
Mediator[edit]
Hi guys,
Im just wondering if you still need a mediator, it seems you are doing quite well and could infact sort this out on your talk pages, «l| Ψrom3th3ăn ™|l» (talk) 15:04, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
mcyp's response[edit]
Hi There,
I haven't get response from 2knowledgable about this, but I guess you must check the part about "anti-Semitism" [16]. As I have told in the above reasons. There is only one entry about that alligation in an informal forum, and most probably that entry is written by 2knowledgable by himself [17]. Please help us to clearfy this. If he did that, I am just humbly and friendly asking that if that approach is ethical without revealing his real name?
As, I have tried to put forward my arguments above for 2knowledgable's consideration, he is blaming school with racim but leaving a room to an other one by himself. I have described the reasons above. Also not giving the names of allaged faculty members names who are forced to resign is unbalanced. 2knowledgable should mensioned the names too, apparently he knows them. Just to be balanced. It is just my humble opinion, nothing personal.
Best Wishes,
--mcyp (talk) 23:08, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
2knowledgeable Reply[edit]
I have thought that we are on our way to solving the problem amicably, and I am open to discussion with mcyp. However, shortly after mycp vowed not to edit the article any more, an anonymous IP user had appeared out of nowhere planting POV and "weasel word" notices throughout the section that I created [18]. Coincidence?
In addition, placing the relevant notices on top of the text (as I have done in response) is usually enough… planting three of them throughout the text, as "anonymous IP" has done, is vandalism.
There are better ways of arguing about the contents of a section than vandalism and sock puppeteer-ing. Don't you agree, mycp?
I also find mcyp's edits more and more difficult to accommodate… but I think we need to take care of "anonymous IP" first.
mcyp's response[edit]
Dear 2knowledgeable,
I forgot to login the time of edit, some of the IPs are from my edits (not all of them!), I haven't noticed that I am not logged in. But, I haven't touched single word of your edit but add the banners on dispute until we resolve our differences.
I should have ask you before doing it, I am really sorry for doing that without your agreement. Please accept my apologies.
Best Wishes,
--mcyp (talk) 13:06, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
- Guys I think that you don't need mediation, your solving your own problems just fine however I will leave this case here and keep and eye on it and interject where required. If you would like more involvment from me let me know. «l| Ψrom3th3ăn ™|l» (talk) 01:07, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
2knowledgeable Editing According to Mcyp Requests[edit]
Dear mcyp, First, I have removed all the "POV" and "Weasel" warnings from the article. As I write above, there are better ways to communicate, which is what I hope we are doing right now. Second, let me try and enter the corrections that you request to the best of my ability.
1.
You need to delete spaces in the first section, to make it easier to read.
I did not find the empty spaces in the paragraph, and I'm not sure how to fix it. You are very welcome to do this yourself (please note, however, that I did not create this space, and I am generally only concerned with the section that I'm preparing).
2.
Removal of your signature at the end of your edit. Usually articles are not signed but only talk pages.
No problem. Done
3.
Putting link to Cyprus Today's wikipedia article, at least with mensioning the reporters full name as you did before.
I am adding the link. The reporter's name, Dan Gibson, already appears in the text.
4.
Second paragraphs needs some verifiable sources or citetions, forum discussion maybe.
The second paragraph already includes four citations.
5.
These statements [that no Jews are working at EMU] also needs citations, each of them seperately. I beleive your account but, it must be verifiable.
Since the school does not publish accounts of faculty members leaving the Island, or the religious affiliation of faculty members, the proof that this situation exists, can only be tangential, referring to the school's environment: That there is no Jewish community life, no active synagogues, no known participants in the community who are Jewish, etc.
The only proof in this matter can be provided by the institution, demonstrating that it does employ Jews, People of Color, Cripples, etc. EMU will not be able to prove this.
6.
You write " ..of anti-Semitism is limited to the school,..". Think like this, the school has at least 10 000 students, many foreign stuff and many more graduates around the world, like myself. Don't you think this statement is overly general and quite unfairly generalize group of people.
Since I don't believe that I am making a statement of any kind that is generalizing against a group of people, I don't feel that a change is necessary.
You must realize, however, that the "administration" of the school is made up from its faculty and functionaries, and that the behavior of the administration could not take place without the agreement of everyone in the school. The school is not run by an outside force, but by a faculty, other employees, and even students and a local community. How can you point towards a vague entity of "administration" (who exactly?) when everyone who is not involved in changing the school shares some of the responsibility for its misconduct?
7.
In the light of the above, I'd suggest to change sub-title "Allegations of anti-Semitism" to "Allegations of administrative anti-national sentiment" which I beleive would be much more appropriate. Because, In general and historically, Turkish Cypriots has no record at all in that way, you described, and school is belong to society not to administrators'.
My point exactly. First let me point that since I do not at any point make a generalizing statements about the national character of Northern Cypriots (and I don't believe that such statement is possible), I find the discussion of Northern Cypriot society irrelevant to the article.
Second, let me explain that you are making my point in regards to the school. If you feel that the antics of EMU are embarrassing to Northern Cypriot society, then your issue is not with me: You have an issue with the Dean of Arts and Sciences who acts like a Mafioso as he runs the entire school from his faculty office; the Dean of Architecture who openly makes anti-Semitic and racist comments ("even the Jews don't build such small bathroom"); the current and previous vice-rector who enact a racist and corrupt power system throughout the school; department heads who behave like tyrants, torturing faculty member whom they consider competition and promoting unqualified faculty instead; and others. You probably know who these people are. And if you are embarrassed by their behavior, then you should try to affect change rather than block publications (which will eventually come out in one way or another).
8.
I hope your addition to this article urge administrators in EMU to make university more open place and free from racial bias.
I hope so too. But they will not do this on the merit of my paragraph. It is the responsibility of people like you to tell the school to stop harming Northern Cyprus by their behavior. You cannot role you eyes and blame some "administration," deny the problem, and curb publications. This will not work. You should actively ask the school to stop embarrassing Northern Cyprus by their behavior. For this, my short paragraph is will not enough. It's up to you. After all, as you write: "the school belongs to the society." Make sure that it represents you adequately.
Best wishes. 2knowledgeable (talk
mcyp's response[edit]
Dear 2knowledgeable,
Many thanks for considering my suggestions. As we now agree on your edits. I should emphasis that I've no way tried or indent to block you editing. Your very initial editing was kinda pre-mature and a little unbalanced, that is why I have raised it as -vandalism- otherwise no intention of "taking side". (Maybe because it was your first wikipedia article edit, so I'd say inexperience would have played a role, I am also not experience though). I have no conflict of interest on the matter anyhow, apart from being graduate of the school from long time ago, where there were many more foreign faculty at the time. And, maybe I've been living in abroad too long, to judge their current state there. But I should say that now your edits looks a little more objective and reflects a little more balanced account.
The behavior of these "faculty" you have described is completely unacceptable. Those "faculty" members should be resigned or fired immediately. A professional academic should very well know that cultural differences are fact and one should be careful and very sensitive on comments based on color,race, religious background and sexual orientation. If not, it is a grave mistake!
You would also agree with me that, the paper you have cited, Cyprus Today, is a Turkish Cypriot publication. So, you must see that Society there can criticize its own school, after all it is published and circulated by media owned by Turkish Cypriots, this point also should be stressed in your edit. If you could add a sentence telling this, it would add a more balanced way. Just an opinion to show that at least very small portion of Open Society values are working there! And this society must take actions not only criticize as you have given a message in this direction above.
And you have already said an important closing remark and the take-home message for that we should stand as Turkish Cypriots:
After all, as you write: "the school belongs to the society." Make
sure that it represents you adequately.
To show my good will and neutrality again, I'll keep distance in editing this article. Hope we have closed the matter on your edits.
Best Wishes,
PS: I am also eager to see your academic contributions to Wikipedia, after all you are an academic and I am sure there are so many articles waiting for your care.
--mcyp (talk) 01:55, 10 August 2008 (UTC)--mcyp (talk) 01:46, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
2knowledgeable's response[edit]
Dear mcyp,
Thank you for your sentiments. I am happy with the current version of the article.
Best wishes. 2knowledgeable (talk