The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. A close call, but essentially the strongest arguments are from those advocating deletion, including the view that this not a genuine phobia, and therefore we should have an article about it. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 14:35, 12 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Roller coaster phobia[edit]

Roller coaster phobia (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)

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I do not think this is well-established as a stand-alone phobia. The Psychology Today reference used actually explicitly says "As a diagnosis, the term "coasterphobia" is suspect, says Otto, Ph.D., director of the cognitive-behavior therapy program at Massachusetts General Hospital and an associate professor at Harvard Medical School. "A 'phobia' demands you have a serious life interference," he explains. "You can go through your whole life and not ride roller coasters and be perfectly fine." This is the apparent foremost expert on the subject, straight up saying that this is not really a distinct phobia. His research into the subject was funded by theme park operator Universal Studios and there is no evidence he ever even tried to get it peer reviewed. The way the article is structured also strongly suggests it is actually a combination or variation of other phobias not specific to roller coasters. The only other reference is from Good Housekeeping which is obviously not a publication with a reputation for printing top-tier content on psychological issues. I'm sure many google hits could be found for "fear of roller coasters" but defining it as a distinct phobia unto itself and having an article about just that seems unwarranted. Beeblebrox (talk) 19:24, 27 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Psychology-related deletion discussions. Beeblebrox (talk) 19:24, 27 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete Not only is this not a true "phobia", as explained in the nomination, but the current article appears to be almost entirely comprised of WP:OR and WP:SYNTH. What few sources that are included do not actually verify the vast bulk of information here, which is basically just using the description and symptoms of various other legit medical conditions, and combining them to try to establish the concept of "roller coaster phobia". Rorshacma (talk) 21:37, 27 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment - Yes, I'm not sure this is an actual phobia either - the references don't really support it. I'll do some searching and see what I can see. Deathlibrarian (talk) 00:12, 28 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment - After looking at some sources, I would say, no, people who don't want to get on a Roller Coaster aren't experiencing a phobia. They just don't want to get on one - This article here does discuss it as a phobia, however they talk about people "liking" or not "liking" roller coasters, which seems to indicate its not a phobia (which is a more intense feeling than simply liking or not liking ...... however, this book says that the fear you get on a roller coaster is different to a phobia - that phobia fear is a lot worse, so it indicates its not a phobia : "Phobic reactions are far worse than the kind of fear people experience riding a roller coaster or watching a scary movie" Deathlibrarian (talk) 00:23, 28 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• I think that's kind of the heart of the matter. Roller coasters and haunted houses are supposed to scare you. That's pretty much the whole point. Some people din't go for that sort of thing, they don't enjoy getting scared, so they don't ride roller coasters or go to haunted houses. That's not the same thing as a phobia. There are obviously real phobias that would make a person unwilling to go on a roller coaster, but the same phobia might make them unwilling to drive down a steep hill, or go sledding, or ride on a perfectly normal train. Beeblebrox (talk) 01:14, 28 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep As a reminder, the question isn't whether this is a real phobia, it's whether it is a NOTABLE phobia. If there were seventeen articles in the New York Times completely dedicated to explaining that there was no such thing as the fear of capybaras, that would make the fear of capybaras notable, even if it didn't exist, by virtue of WP:SIGCOV. A quick google search reveals HUNDREDS of articles about the fear of roller coasters. Should this article be improved? Oh heck yes. A move to "Fear of Roller Coasters" might also be appropriate. But this is a concept with plenty of coverage. PianoDan (talk) 16:22, 28 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thing is, "fear" and "phobia" are not synonymous. Of course people are scared of roller coasters, that's the entire point. As I mentioned above, some people don't enjoy that sensation and choose not to ride them. That doesn't mean they have a roller-coaster specific phobia, which is the subject of this article. Beeblebrox (talk) 21:56, 28 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep per PianoDan. See, for example, "Thrills & Chills" in Psychology Today: "Once a coaster takes off, passengers can do nothing but sit or, on some rides stand, and scream. 'The closest thing to compare it to is driving with an idiot' (so an alternative is to redirect to Presidency of Donald Trump); "Roller coasters: the drive to scream" by CBC News, etc. Another possibility: redirect to Thanatophobia. Clarityfiend (talk) 21:33, 28 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The Psychology Today article you quote is the same one I quote in the nomination, the one where what appears to be the only thing approaching an expert on the subject said it basically isn't real. Beeblebrox (talk) 21:53, 28 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

As PianoDan has already noted, not being a real psychological thing doesn't mean it is therefore unnotable. Clarityfiend (talk) 05:55, 29 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

But this article frames it as if it is an actual phobia. If someone wants to write a new article titled "fear of roller coasters" that's fine, that's a broader topic not full of WP:SYNTH as this article is. Beeblebrox (talk) 01:51, 30 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete the subject isn't real, as Beeblebrox and thew author of the principal reference point out. This is not a pathological condition. DGG ( talk ) 07:16, 31 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete I agree with others that this is not an actual DSM condition. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lamona (talk • contribs) 04:26, 1 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete There has been a note requesting additional references since November 2017 and it still only has 3 references. Gusfriend (talk) 07:10, 3 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete No notable references are present in the article. Timetraveller80 (talk) 18:13, 3 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep. Whether this phobia is "real" or not is irrelevant. The question is does this subject meet our general notability guidelines, and it does. Rreagan007 (talk) 19:59, 3 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• I hate to keep banging this drum but I believe that is incorrect. The broader topic "fear of roller coasters" may be notable unto itself, but this article is about a phobia of roller coasters, a condition which it appears does not exist. They are two related but different subjects. Beeblebrox (talk) 22:45, 3 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• WP:VAGUEWAVE. Please explain why and how X or Y article meets the policy you point to. Pilaz (talk) 12:35, 6 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep, for the reasons of those who want to keep this article. Davidgoodheart (talk) 21:51, 3 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Rename as compromise As a compromise between the keep and delete can we rename it to fear of roller coasters as the use of phobia has a specific technical meaning? That would enable a broader scope and open it up to other types of references. We can then tag it for improvement and see what the community adds to the page.Gusfriend (talk) 23:11, 3 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I did think of that and overall I don't hate the idea, but so much of the current article is WP:SYNTH it seems like it might be more worth it to just start from scratch. Beeblebrox (talk) 00:23, 4 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I found some articles that might be good for the moved page or at least provide a starting point.

• An article on the psychology of roller coasters.
• Multiple articles here, here and here about overcoming the fear of roller coasters.
• We can also talk about the psychology of fear and the enjoyment of fear.

I am actually honestly intrigued by what the Wikipedia community can make of a page about the different levels of fear of roller coasters, how it plays into excitement, enjoyment or rejection. Gusfriend (talk) 00:47, 4 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 17:40, 4 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep. Clearly a thing. Possibly rename. "Fear of" would do fine. Hyperbolick (talk) 01:12, 5 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete Not really a real phobia. And, duh, of course some people are afraid of roller coasters. They are literally designed to scare those who ride on them. That doesn't require its own article and can be mentioned in the page on them. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 00:42, 6 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• At the risk of pre-empting things there seems to be a rough consensus forming:
  • There seems to be little support for calling this a phobia as that word has a specific meaning.
  • Fear of roller coasters is a real thing. As Zxcvbnm says, that is part of their design, but there is a point that the response of an individual passes the limit that the designer intended (for example fear induced nausea whilst waiting in line).
  • There are plenty of articles on people having an outsized reaction to the thought of going on a roller coaster.
  • I think that a discussion on the notability of the fear of roller coasters would be better held on a page with that topic.

With all of that I propose rename to fear of with some cleaning up and a notice about additional references needed. Under the new name, after a period, say at least a month, to allow the article to mature and improve, someone from the community can propose a merge to rollercoasters or another AfD. This gives us a way forward and an opportunity to improve the page.Gusfriend (talk) 01:12, 7 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep- what an interesting phobia to write about, surely this is worth keeping. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.102.255.40 (talk) 20:46, 9 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete per nom, not a real phobia, and not a real slang term either. The lead mentions it being related to other phobias despite there being little evidence to prove so. As a side note, most of the keep votes are WP:ILIKEIT.Swordman97 ^{talk to me} 21:44, 9 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Rename to Fear of roller coasters. It's a tricky question, and there are good points being made for both Keep and Delete. I appreciate that "fear of" is slightly different to "phobia" and that re-purposing articles is unusual for AfDs. However, notability is not established for "phobia" yet there would be sufficient sources for a "fear of" article. Therefore, as an WP:ATD I think it is worth building on the current "phobia" text as the basis for a "fear of" article. Apologies for my long-winded comment here :) Regards, MrsSnoozyTurtle 09:33, 12 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.