Japan Start‑class Mid‑importance

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Religion: New religious movements Start‑class Mid‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Religion, a project to improve Wikipedia's articles on Religion-related subjects. Please participate by editing the article, and help us assess and improve articles to good and 1.0 standards, or visit the wikiproject page for more details.ReligionWikipedia:WikiProject ReligionTemplate:WikiProject ReligionReligion articles Start This article has been rated as Start-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. Mid This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale. This article is supported by New religious movements work group (assessed as High-importance).

I don't see nn si capisce un cazz vi prego di scorreggiare contro faustino ogni volta che lo vedete being questioned; when reading it, I appreciated that someone took the time to include the predictions of the group. Personally, I think they should do it for every religious or spiritually themed page that is connected to fortune-telling. 75.73.45.230 (talk) 21:16, 1 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I consider the prediction section to be inappropriate for an encyclopedia. In my opinion, encyclopedias should write about what people have done, not what they say might happen. Does anybody else agree? Should it be removed?--Mycomp (talk) 02:18, 26 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

RE: PREDICTION
I'm going to add the prediction section back in because it gives insight into the theology of the subject. For instance, no overview of Christianity is complete without a reference to future prophesy (second coming etc.).--99.231.112.97 (talk) 23:55, 28 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I haven't seen a single serious encyclopedia that has prediction paragraphs. Comparing the generality of "the second coming" with the speculations in the predictions paragraph here, is IMHO not correct.--Mycomp (talk) 23:16, 31 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Well maybe the formatting of "Predictions" as a section is unusual, but I believe that the specific nature of the prophecy and the fact that other faiths include a very specific prophecy is reason enough to include it. Your opinion as to what is "encyclopediable" isn't justified by the fact that this is knowledge specific to this topic; as such it should be allowed. --99.231.112.97 (talk) 00:31, 2 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I would very much like to hear the opinion of other editors.--Mycomp (talk) 06:38, 4 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I do understand and would even share Mycomp's concern regarding the impropriety of predictions under the fact oriented nature of encyclopedias. Nonetheless, within most encyclopedic works the account of the Bible's Book of Revelations demonstrates how predictions are a key element within the theological structure of many religions, and this is indeed a fact. Predictions are not facts, yet it is a fact that they have been stated. We should not ignore this in any further discussion on this topic....--Luxgratia (talk) 19:20, 8 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Well, the section should've been renamed and reformatted but Luxgratia is right that in articles describing religious movements it has its place, as it forms important part of their "agenda" or teachings and beliefs. - Darwinek (talk) 11:56, 10 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

anyone? They seem to be getting involved in Japanese politics?andycjp (talk) 10:46, 15 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, according to a Japanese friend, in one of his latest speeches, Mr. Okawa has declared his desire to run for the Japanese Parliament. He claims that only he can defend Japan from the hostile intentions of North Korea, as he predicts that a missle attack is forthcoming. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.190.230.57 (talk) 21:06, 5 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The so-called San Francisco Temple is actually located in Redwood City, California, which is south of San Francisco but part of the San Francisco Bay Area. No local would refer to it as part of San Francisco, though. It's considered to be on the peninsula, part of the suburbs. No sure if this bears inclusion. Also, it's located in a former Salvation Army church, and still looks like one. They just removed the cross. I've never been inside. BookishAcolyte (talk) 18:00, 13 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, I am new to Wiki. I am not sure if this is the right page to post this, but I would like to help improve this page.

Looking at this page, I think there can be many improvements made. From what I have learned so far, Wiki has graded this page class as 'start' meaning, as stated, it is "quite incomplete", the "prose may be distinctly unencyclopedic". Also, for suggestions on how to improve: "Provide references to reliable sources" and "the article needs substantial improvement in content and organisation."

Quickly looking at the Japanese page, there seems to be more information there than the English version. If someone can read Japanese (mine is so, so), perhaps they could improve and expand the English version by using references from here? Or other reliable independent English sources? I will have a look…

If anyone else has any ideas to improve this Wiki page, let's share! SFTokyo (talk) 10:53, 27 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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@Stream8: The material that you are currently edit-warring to remove has been in the article for many years, and so the onus is on you to seek a for its removal on this talk page, not just keep reverting. Incidentally, if you have any kind of professional or otherwise relationship with the subject, then that is considered to be a conflict of interest, and any contentious edits you wish to make should be discussed here first. —SerialNumber54129 ^{paranoia /cheap sh*t room} 16:29, 6 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Furthermore, @Stream8:, I can honestly tell you that if you don't join this discussion—such as it is—then the only impression you will give is of someone who wants to revert but not discuss. That's not a good image. Cheers, —SerialNumber54129 ^{paranoia /cheap sh*t room} 16:46, 6 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@SerialNumber54129: OK. The sources say that some people criticize it as a cult but also says that there is no basis for that. You should not emphasize only the former. That is not a fact but a controversy. And it already appears on the controversy section. If they say it is a central information, it should be written as it is. As an encyclopedia, Wikipedia's mission is to provide the public with articles that summarize accepted knowledge, written neutrally and sourced reliably. Thank you. Stream8 (talk) 16:49, 6 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Stream8: Please revert your last edit while this discussion takes place. If you read WP:LEAD—which User:Bonadea has already directed you to in this edit summary—you will see that the introductory section must be an overall summary of the main contents of the article. Since the controversy section is so big, it is absolutely inadequate to have no mention of it all in the introduction. Unfortunately, just because one one does not approve of the contents of an article, one cannot remove whatever one likes. Incidentally, regarding my earlier question about your connection to the subject, what say you? —SerialNumber54129 ^{paranoia /cheap sh*t room} 17:03, 6 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The cited sources support the statement that HS is "widely criticized as a cult". They do not in fact make any claim that there is "no basis for that"; in my opinion it would be fine to describe HS as a cult in Wikipedia's voice, but the article doesn't do that, it merely reports the well-sourced fact that it is described as such by other people. There are three(!) sources for that in the lede, even though the lede doesn't need sources as long as sources exist in the article - and they do, there are three or four additional sources that support the phrasing "widely criticized as a cult". Of course the HS leadership does not subscribe to that description, but that does not mean that the lede should include that viewpoint. Neutrality on Wikipedia does not mean "represent every possible point of view with equal weight", it means "represent the mainstream, sourced viewpoints and do not give undue weight to minority or fringe viewpoints". There have been multiple previous attempts by multiple single-purpose accounts and IPs to remove the phrase from the from the lede and from the "Controversies" section. Because of that, I've made sure to read the sources carefully, so I am very confident that there is no policy-based reason to remove the text. --bonadea contributions talk 11:05, 8 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Dear people. The source of the cult notation lacks concrete examples that the science of happiness is a cult. It is only that someone said it was cult. The notation of cult is a strong word, so if you use it, you need to list more evidences that are cults and concrete examples. Since the case is lacking at this stage, should the cult notation be withdrawn once? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Orugaberuteika (talk • contribs) 12:40, 2 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

No, since there are multiple strong sources that clearly show that the religion you represent is characterised as a cult. Please read the discussions above, and also the multiple explanations you have received at Talk:Ryuho Okawa. Do you see that there is a difference between "X is a cult" and "Many people say that x is a cult"? --bonadea contributions talk 12:52, 2 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. Who is a lot of people? There are only quite limited number of opinions in the source. It can not be said that a lot of people. First we need concrete evidence if we call it a cult. Orugaberuteika (talk) 04:31, 3 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The explanation was insufficient. Sorry. I will supplement it. A sentence appearing in a citations article is written that several people said "it is a cult." But this is not a lot of people. I think the following two points are necessary. ① How many people said it was a cult? Is it a number that can be called a lot of people? ② Which facts have we concluded that the science of happiness is cult? There is a lack of "specific facts" in this article. Articles lacking "specific facts" are less verifiable. Therefore it is inappropriate as a source article. First of all we need to find more objective and concrete facts. Otherwise, at least in the wiki, an expression of the extent of "there is something written with some articles in the article" is appropriate. "Widely criticized as a cult" is excessive. I have read the source article many times, but there is no objective, numerical or logical basis anywhere. It is said that other religious people do not like the science of happiness. . This is an ordinary story. It is natural to criticize people who believe in different religions. The important thing in editing WIKI is to find "objective, numerical, logical evidence" that the science of happiness is cult from this article. But there is no cult evidence anywhere in the article. "It is written that I thought that Mr. A was a cult, but the basis of the cult is not specified anywhere." If there is a part that describes the basis of the cult, please show it.I am waiting for your opinion.Orugaberuteika (talk) 04:31, 6 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Which source are you referring to? There are six sources currently in the article that use the word "cult" to describe it (and if you have read the sources you'll be aware that multiple people and organisations are quoted in them) and one or two others who discuss it as such without using the exact term. The sources are publications from several different continents. Thus, it is a verifiable fact that it is "widely described as a cult". To avoid citation overload there is no reason to add even more sources, even though they are very easy to find. --bonadea contributions talk 14:40, 6 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you! I was waiting for your opinion. The fact that some people say so is not a logical basis for being a cult. It is not objective. It is not logical either. It is not numerical either. It is very ambiguous. A more accurate cult basis is necessary. If this logic goes through, "If there are articles that criticized hundreds of any religion as a cult, it will become a cult," "Who said what, what a person called a cult, It is not an evidence. "It is a personal opinion, it is not grounds. We need objective grounds for why we call the science of happiness a cult. I am waiting for your opinion.Happiness science is an organization with 12 million believers. Therefore, some criticize. However, "I think that the science of happiness is a cult" and "The science of happiness is a cult" is another. Even if "the number of people who consider the science of happiness to be cult is large, the science of happiness is cult" is not the basis. What you need as an editor of WIKI is to find logical evidence that the science of happiness is a cult. The evidence is not written in the source. I think that the source is inappropriate. No matter how many people regard the science of happiness as a cult, it is not evidence that the science of happiness is cult. No matter how many articles it is, if it is just a opinion, it is only an opinion. It is not a fact. It is not evidence. What we need is to qualify as a source from among many articles that have the grounds to say that it is truly cults, if we can not make it out, ywe should not write in the article Is not it? What do you think？Thank you for reading it for the time being! Orugaberuteika (talk) 23:31, 6 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The article does not say that it is a cult. --bonadea contributions talk 20:35, 6 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. I am sorry I do not understand a little. Do not write a cult in this article? Is not it not possible to write in Wikipedia that it is widely criticized as cult if it does not say cult? What kind of logic widely calls criticism as a cult? I am sorry for the questions only. If it says "It is not said to be a cult in this article" it is irrational to write this article as the basis and saying "widely criticized as cult". If it is written that "The science of happiness is cult in this article" is different, the sentence itself "this is widely criticized as cult" becomes inappropriate sentences. Is that something like that? I would like to know your opinion on what is written that this "widely criticized as cult" is written. I'd like to know the reason why it can be written as "Widely criticized as cult" while "this article is not written as cult".What is the meaning to write that being widely criticized as cult? Just if we do not judge anything and do not investigate grounds, collect articles that the happiness science is culty unilaterally, so if ywe put it in WIKI as it is, there is no point in discussion. There is no significance of existence of WIKI editor. It is only copying. Based on the source we need to consider whether widely criticized as the science of happiness is cult. And the definition of "widely" itself must also be accurate. The followers of happiness science is 12 million. On the other hand, can we write that it is widely criticized as a cult only by presenting some articles? More logical, objective, numerical grounds are necessary to judge it. I feel a one-sided intention in this article. I feel the desire to write badly more than necessary for organizations of happiness science. Especially when writing criticisms on Wikipedia, should we be more careful? Does it make sense to describe this matter more than having some people criticizing this cult? One sentence "that is widely criticized as a cult" has the same meaning as "being a cult". The way that it is widely criticized as cult is misleading the user. The responsibility for misunderstanding is with the editor of WIKI. We have a mission to write accurate articles. There is no benefit for WIKI to put wrong information on WIKI. People will not believe WIKI. Just do not do it as an editor of WIKI. Especially when criticizing someone, sufficient verification is necessary. There is no WIKI to slander people and organizations. And we should not write criticism on the basis of some opinions, which is not sufficiently validated. It is too risky to write such criticisms at the stage we do not have enough arguments to assert that the science of happiness is cult. It is inappropriate. we should be particularly cautious when writing criticisms. Is not this cult representation inappropriate at the present time?Thank you! I know that you are busy, but discussions are moving forward in your constructive opinion! Orugaberuteika (talk) 14:09, 7 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The confusion is based on the fact that the word "article" is used about different things. The Wikipedia article says "is widely criticized as a cult". It does not say "is a cult". This is based on multiple source articles that say that it is a cult, and also that it is widely referred to as such. For this reason, it would be against Wikipedia policy to remove the text from the Wikipedia article. Does that make it clearer? --bonadea contributions talk 17:00, 7 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

WP:VNT might help explain this misunderstanding. Keahapana (talk) 01:14, 8 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, I appreciate your help. However, as a rule of WIKI, there are things that need to pay particular attention when writing critical content.

First of all, is the sentence "widely criticized" appropriate? There is definitely a critical article. But can you describe it as "why" widely? This "wide" is ambiguous. What can you write "broad"?

Moreover, there will be people who are critical of any organization. There will be people who think it is a cult for any religious organization. For example, there may be people who think that Buddhism and Christianity are also cults in the world. But is there a necessity to dictate that there are people who are critical of the science of happiness as a special note on the top of the page? Is not this a neutral writing style? It is natural for all organizations that there are critical people. Some people dislike the Republican Party, others do not like the Democratic Party. It will have many criticisms. There will be criticism articles. But why do you need to dare write about that science of happiness?

Why are you dare writing here? It is necessary to clarify the reason. I want everyone to have an opinion. Thank you. Orugaberuteika (talk) 14:09, 8 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

"Widely criticised as a cult" does not mean "is a cult". It means that a lot of what we call "reliable sources" have said that. And if they have, it has to be in the article. If it was just one person, it doesn't. Asking people why they dare write here suggests that they have no right to edit this article. Please don't do this again. The bottom line is that our articles reflect the views of sources that meet our criteria. Doug Weller talk 17:01, 8 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. Just your answer has not answered my question. Although I have not answered, I can not accept that I will not propose. There are such criticisms dared. And it is not inappropriate to list on wiki only. This is neither included in both arguments. I thank you. Orugaberuteika (talk) 22:29, 8 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

First of all, what is the basis for this broad word? It should be clarified, and if there are several articles, can it be said that it is wide? Just not only gathered some critical articles. It can be said that I gathered articles in a one-sided manner. Orugaberuteika (talk) 22:34, 8 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for everything, I understand that you are busy, but I want some kind of reply. In order to make WIKI better, we need your opinion. Thank you. Orugaberuteika (talk) 22:34, 13 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Dear folks. I've been waiting since that, but I want some reply. If you do not participate in the discussion, please just let me know so. I am waiting. I'm begging you.Orugaberuteika (talk) 22:39, 19 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, Orugaberuteika. I'd like to know about a relation in happy science with you. It's very eager, but should oh be even called sticking? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Queen love22 (talk • contribs) 15:11, 25 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

There are various evaluations. Provide items on evaluation. It is fair and neutral. Sorunikusu (talk) 07:31, 4 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]