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This article sounds rather hagiographic to me.--Mycomp (talk) 00:16, 4 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I wonder whether the reference for the allegation that he has written more than 500 books is valid. It is namely the website of his organization. Is that reliable enough?--Mycomp (talk) 00:15, 6 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

That statement is sourced by a The Japan Times report. That seems reliable enough to me. --DAJF (talk) 04:34, 6 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Added "reportedly" (as used in the newspaper article) because the Japan Times does not vouch for the correctness of the fact.--Mycomp (talk) 07:54, 6 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It's a fact that he's written or been credit with several bookshelves full. You can visit a Happy Science church to confirm this. Shii (tock) 21:24, 31 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

This is my first, and hopefully my last comment of this kind in a discussion page, I am not a Sysop, least of all an administrator. So far my contributions to wikipedia have been humble, my editing skills minute, nevertheless I have not spared efforts to try and make my edits as accurate and coherent as possible with Wikipedia principles, as my record shows (only after my very first flopped and biased edition to any page, that of Hugo Chavez... I admit it LOL, for I have grown to respect wikipedia as a general tool). Now seriously, the principles of wikipedia, I understand, have old roots in western dialectic tradition. I think it is precisely to the bindings of this tradition that we submit ourselves here, in this very page.

Sharing the judgement of Mycomp, who I assume to be an administrator, I also have grave concerns about the extremely questionable neutrality of of this article, not to mention it hagiographic and misleading nature. I understand that my last major edition to it might not have been as skillful as it could have been, though I am learning to use the edit-tools. Nevertheless the deleted bulk of information which I had provided, was corroborated by newspaper articles, although at the time I did not understand well how they are inserted on a page. Luckily, on August 5 2009, DAFJ properly added these links I had referred to, he/she complemented my clumsy editing skills, my gratitude goes to DAFJ. In turn I have very often corrected the errors and mistakes committed by other editors while enhancing their original arguments. This is the beauty of wikipedia, it is a living pulsing encyclopedia. I now return to the main issue at hand. The pressing need to counterbalance the "hagiography" which Ryuho Okawa has been afforded in wikipedia, will not be solved by the recent deletion of my edits, on the contrary it has restored the article closer to its original hagiographical tone. This has been afforded by the questionable reversion executed by Sysop Shii on August 29. As a member of the wikipedia family and with all due respect to him, he should know that he is not above the other four Sysops or administrators who in fourteen previous reviews had not deleted, but only improve the links and style in the best of their habilities. In my own personal opinion there were some other flaws awaiting correction in this article which had been utterly overlooked.

I consider Sysop Shii to have all the right in the world to his own opinions, even an opinion such as stated in his own website, which reads: "...articles that are better than wikipedia...", linking to Shii's own personal articles. In one of these articles (on Human Nature: http://shii.org/knows/Human_nature ) Shii also has full right to authoritatively dictate, as he indulged, that "... Human nature runs as follows. I hereby declare this article better than Wikipedia's retarded mess of an article on the same subject...". I also think Shii has again the same right to his own opinion, even to the degree of cutting mr. Okawa some slack, as he just did, and allow Okawa to keep his personal wikipedia hagiography. Nevertheless, there might be a technical deadlock considering Wikipedia regulations. Hence, I would consider it more viable for Sysop Shii to indulge in such consideration towards okawa within the editorial excellence of his (Shii's) own personal page titled: "Everything Shii Knows, the only reliable source".

That human blood is red or that humans are all mortals, those are facts. To use the italian Dio cantore , and assert it as the name of the deity logged in my hidden consciousness or as Shii writes about Okawa's 500 books, that he (Okawa) truly "...has written or been credit(ed) with several bookshelves full...(because) (we) can visit a Happy Science church to confirm this...", those are not facts, but claims, they are twofold claims by both Shii and Happy Science. (I do agree with Okawa, though, that melodious italian terms are more befitting for those elusive deities in the crevices of our subconscious! )

Terms and concepts, in their own potentiality, are, nonetheless closely bound to the restrictions of their specific semantic spheres. In this respect, and considering the claim of a previous entry, I think it is important to clarify that Happy Science buildings are not churches, nor have they been claimed as such by Happy Science in any sense. Not even etymology allows for a comparison in neither of Greek roots: Kuriakon (Church) nor ekklēsia (ecclesiastical. Opposite to spanish or Italian, this greek root has no derivative noun in English, only adjectives). The only classification claimed by Happy Science regarding their buildings is that of the more generic term: temples. A very fact is that these temples are amply fitted with guided tortoises and caduceus, for Mr. Okawa is also the reincarnation of the greek god Hermes; among many other things, Hermes is the messenger of the Gods, and god of commerce, and last but not least, (citing wikipedia) also the god of the cunning of thieves and liars. In the path of her husband, neither wife Kyoko Okawa, falls short , for "...she is (claimed) a reincarnation of Florence Nightingale and the Greek goddess Aphrodite..." (Telegraph.co.uk August 13 2009).

Referring to solid facts, for a change, a fact is that these next declarations are unquestionably the declarations of Ryuho Okawa, published in The Los Angeles Times in october 19, 1991:

Okawa asserts that only the Japanese Leviathan will survive the imminent end of the world after destroying the United States and the Soviet Union, and that: "...In the 21st Century, there will be no enemies for Leviathan. It (Japan) will slash throats of the old eagle and the exhausted red bear, and laugh at the aging Europe. It will use China as a slave and Korea as a prostitute." Elsewhere in the book, he mocks American "civilization, which produced nothing more than weapons, cars, Coca-Cola and hamburgers. . . ." (Quotes from "Nostradamus: Fearful Prophecies" by Ryuho Okawa?!)

Complete article: http://articles.latimes.com/1991-10-19/entertainment/ca-721_1_united-states

Technically we should not consider these last words nor the books as the works of Ryuho Okawa, but in his own opinion as the words Nostradamus' spirit which Okawa claims to channel directly from the afterlife. If we also consider other books where he claims to have channeled the messages of Buddha, the Prophet Muhammad and Jesus Christ then it could be argued, not without a sense of legal irony, we should conclude that he is not the author of 500 books but only some 496, lets say.....

In another more recent article dated August 4 2009, on the Japan Times we read:

"...Against pictures of a mushroom cloud exploding over Tokyo and red ink slowly drowning the nation, the narrator warns that China ultimately lurks behind this plot. "With a population of 1.3 billion, China will rule the world," intones the voice of Kim. "And North Korea will be No. 2." Neither the ruling Liberal Democratic Party, nor their likely successors, the Democratic Party of Japan, have an answer to this threat, says the party. "The very existence of the nation hangs in the balance."

For those wondering how the narrator is privy to the thoughts of the world's most reclusive leader, the answer is simple: The Happies have a hotline direct to his subconscious.

A book released recently, "The Guardian Spirit of Kim Jong Il Speaks," by party founder and President Ryuho Okawa, explains that the voice of Kim's "guardian spirit" warned him of the North's plans. Okawa also tunes into the thoughts of Japan's wartime monarch, Emperor Hirohito, and his deceased predecessors...." (The link to the full article was properly provided by DAFJ in the Okawa wiki-page, thanks! )

Ok.... this might bring the Okawa's self authored book count to 495.... or is it 490.....? after reading how even the press has not been able to avoid it.... I beg of you all to allow me this bit of Irony! of my own .... though enough with the books now.

Or maybe just the reference to one last book, again written by Okawa, only that this time around it is Okawa himself who is being "channeled" through a writer "hired" by Japanese editor Tomo Machiyama. In Machiyama's own words, here is the reference to this controversial book "by" Mr. Okawa. From Machiyama's article:

"...I have a kind of interesting relationship with IRH (The Institute for Research in Human Happiness)... When I was an editor in Japan, I was sued by IRH for publishing a book which made fun of their founder, Ryuho Okawa. Of course I believe in freedom of religion, but I just couldn't stand such a stupid cult-one that was so arrogant to boot....Before Ryuho Okawa founded IRH, he was a ghostwriter literally. I mean, he wrote books as dead people! Like a medium, he wrote books under the names of world-historical religious figures: Christ, Buddha, Mohammad, even Confucius and Zeus...I think there's something very Japanese in that...Maybe someday, we'll worship Allah, too. Japanese believe in any religion, which means we have no faith at all... However, his books have some problems. First of all, they're all written in Japanese. In His book, Christ even uses modern Japanese slang. Second, it's obvious Okawa doesn't know much about the Bible, the Koran, or the Sutras. His Buddha, who can't even spell his wife's name correctly, goes on about Japanese television and the economy, not about ancient India. Following this series of works, Okawa went on to write as nonreligious figures: Shakespeare, Picasso, and Isaac Newton, but "Shakespeare" doesn't mention anything about his plays, and "Newton" doesn't talk about the laws of physics. Nonetheless, the books became bestsellers, because most Japanese have no clue about Christ, Buddha, or Newton. what do all the historical figures in these books say? They talk about the superiority of the Japanese race. In Okawa's book, Warning from Allah, Allah says, "You Japanese are the chosen nation to rule the world. So you should get rid of the peaceful constitution and get armed... Okawa, writing as Nostradamus, predicts, "Japan will occupy Korea again and then take over all of Asia"...No wonder he wrote a book as Buddha. Besides, he said the Buddha, meaning himself, was the creator of the cosmos, the ruler of the universe, and the boss of Christ, Mohammad, and Confucius. That managed to really offend Christians, Moslems, and Buddhists. Many offended groups declared Okawa a fraud who falsely used god's (or rather, godsí) name, but that was all they could do. One of the cults whose founder's name was used by Okawa sued him, but the case was rejected by the court, because it's impossible to prove the authenticity of a ghost. I was the one of the people offended by Okawa, because I am a Korean-Japanese, whom Okawa calls an inferior race. In order to attack him, I used Okawa's tactics. I hired a writer and had him write as Ryuho Okawa. In the book, the writer channeled Okawa's ghost, which confesses that he is just a mediocre man and apologizes to the people he hurt. It was kind of a joke, but we read all of Okawa's books and thoroughly researched his background. We criticized his fascism and screeds against minorities, gays, and women." (online article by Tomo Machiyama )

The link to the complete article: http://japattack.com/japattack/newiframe/newjapattack/culture/lawsofthesun.html

To end this long, entry, I would simply state that the first editor I shared my thoughts with was Darwinek, who I thank for his advice in this and other occasions. It was him who encouraged me to post my concerns in the discussion page. Needless to say, the least of my intentions would be to engage in an editing battle and least of all a heated debate, which would not be far from hilarious. I am submiting this case to the to the civility of this page and the opinion of qualified Wikipedia editors. I kindly ask Sysop Shii to understand my arguments and the constructive purpose behind them, assuring him I mean no grudge, just fervor in my argument at the most.

In my original edit I deleted not a single one of Okawa's controversial attributes, I just revealed them for what they truly are: claims. Restraining my own judgements, I have engaged in mirroring the judgements and arguments of others, and only through theirs, to suggest my own. I would appreciate if you would treat my entry here, on account of this self imposed constraint, which I have chosen to modulate my own argument. I would engage in further editions to this page, only and only after an reasonable agreement has been reached through common debate, for the sake of Wikipedia and for the sake of the respect we afford this website. If you really read through this whole (!) entry.... well congratulations!! (LOL) I await for your responses, thanks--Luxgratia (talk) 21:13, 4 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]