Request concerning 517design

User requesting enforcement

Grandmaster 14:57, 24 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested

517design (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy that this user violated

Wikipedia:ARBAA2#Amended_Remedies_and_Enforcement

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

1. [1]
2. [2]
3. [3]
4. [4]
5. [5]
6. [6]

Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)

# [7] Warning by Grandmaster (talk · contribs)

Enforcement action requested (block, topic ban or other sanction)

revert limitation of 1 rv per week

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

Nagorno-Karabakh is a highly sensitive article, and was a subject of a number of arbitration cases. The intro of that article is based on consensus, reached after many months of discussions, mediation, etc. 517design (talk · contribs) shows no intention of working towards consensus, and edit wars to have the article to reflect his vision of the situation. Despite my warning about recent arbitration case on the article's topic, and possible sanctions, he continues to edit war. He reverted the article many times within the last 3 days. According to Wikipedia:ARBAA2#Amended_Remedies_and_Enforcement, Any uninvolved administrator may, on his or her own discretion, impose sanctions on any editor working in the area of conflict if, despite being warned, that editor repeatedly or seriously fails to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behavior, or any normal editorial process. In the view of the above, I suggest that 517design is placed on a revert limitation, as despite the warning he continues to edit war and shows no intention of reaching consensus with other involved editors, or following the dispute resolution procedures. Grandmaster 14:57, 24 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

[8]

Discussion concerning 517design

Statement by 517design

Comments by others about the request concerning 517design

Once again the lamentable failings of Wikipedia administrators rear their ugly heads. Long ago, rather than properly address the issue, they concocted the disgraceful AA2 sanctions. And how they love those sanctions, it gives them the excuse to swing their tiny little banhammers around like a baby with its toys. The result is that anyone who regularly edits articles related to the sanctions will INEVITABLY find themselves under AA2 sanctions and then be severely limited in their editing. Parallel to this, complete newcomers to the subject (or to Wikipedia) can come and make as many reverts and additions as they like - good or bad, but all sanction free. This is the core reason behind Grandmaster's complaint. It is not that the edits by 517design are disruptive, it is that 517design needs to be put on the same level as all other editors working on AA2 related articles. Meanwhile, the same old problems continue, but at a rate of 1 revert a week rather than 3 a day, and articles are always at risk of drive-by anonymous edits that regular editors can't revert because they would be breaking sanctions. Administrators think that is a good solution. What I think of administrators can't be said here. Meowy 17:00, 25 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Result concerning 517design

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

• Meowy, here you can download the complete database of all of Wikipedia. If the administration of this site is not to your liking, you are free to set up, run and administer your own site. While you chose to remain here, please limit yourself to on-topic comments about the question in hand at these requests. henrik•talk 18:59, 25 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I was going to wait until 517design had a chance to reply here, but given this comment on the talk page of the affected article, I think I'm just going to go ahead and conclude this report. 517design is hereby placed on civility supervision, supervised editing, and revert limitation pursuant to the remedies of the above-linked arbitration case. Ioeth (talk contribs twinkle friendly) 21:25, 25 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Notified and logged. Ioeth (talk contribs twinkle friendly) 21:28, 25 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Request concerning HappyInGeneral

User requesting enforcement

Enric Naval (talk) 23:15, 14 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested

HappyInGeneral (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy that this user violated

Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Falun Gong#Article_probation

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

1. In the last months he has started reverting back Asdfg12345 edits, in Falun Gong [9][10][11], in Li_Hongzhi [12][13], in History_of_Falun_Gong [14]. He is the only editor that restores Asdfg12345's edits, while the removal Asdfg12345's edits is being done by multiple editors.
2. after complaints that the sources are not adequate, he states "So you are saying that removing sourced information is somehow OK?"[15], this is the typical WP:IDIDNTHEARTHAT behaviour at FG pages, where valid arguments are ignored by flooding the discussion with new invalid arguments.

Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)

1. here Warning by Ohconfucius (talk · contribs)
2. here Warning by Cazort (talk · contribs) about editing only Falun Gong pages
3. ANI thread

Enforcement action requested (block, topic ban or other sanction)

Ban on reverting back Asdfg12345's edits. 0RR restriction.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

HappyInGeneral has edited a great number of articles while vandal-fighting, but he is a still a SPA account, overhelmingly editing Falun Gong related articles, see edit counter [16].

The 2007 arb case failed to pass a finding that HappyInGeneral was edit-warring, by one vote, here, and a one-year revert parole also failed by one vote here.

HappyInGeneral is a self-declared practitioner of Falun Gong[17]. A person with this COI shouldn't be edit-warring stuff that os directly related to the reputation of the discipline that he practices.

HappyInGeneral supports Asdfg12345 in all the edits that he makes and in all the discussions. They behave like a tag team, they revert back the edits of each other. Nobody reverts back Asdfg12345 edits back into the articles, except for this account. HappyInGeneral insists that other editors must explain why they revert Asdfg12345, while no demand is ever made that Asdfg12345 explains his bold edits after he gets reverted.

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

[18]

Discussion concerning HappyInGeneral

Statement by HappyInGeneral (2)

Hello, I reviewed the diff. I read the comments.

In my experience and based on WP:TRUTH people on Wikipedia will come with different point of views. Which is all fine. And we can all work together as long as we discuss the content of the article rationally.

In my case against Simonm223 above, I complained with substantiated diffs exactly against the fact that he comes only with a strong point of view with quite some original researches, but he does not discuss the blanket reverts that he makes based on the merit of the content and the sources used, instead he makes comments about the contributor, over and over again, which naturally goes against WP:NPA.

And now the diffs that Enric give as evidence against me, well I think that shows exactly how I ask from time to time for such a discussion to happen.

For example in the latest diff presented I'm asking Simonm223 to engage in discussion of the content rather then blind reverts, and I even point out to him where exactly can he do that.

And if you take a look at the rest of diffs presented: [19] [20] [21] [22] [23] you might notice the same behavior from my part while there is no discussion on the talk page, just strong minded reverts, without substantiated discussion. When blind reverts like this are happening, I can only come here to present my case, because there is no argument to be used at the NPOV, Reliable Source, etc. noticeboards.

Regarding WP:COI: To put things into the right perspective read this: "I wander if mechanic should not edit the pages related to mechanics, even if he sources them with reliable sources just because he says he is a mechanic." The point is that people edit the pages they have interest in. Everybody has a POV and as long as the Persecution in China is going on and it is fueled by the biggest and meanest propaganda machine on earth, there will be no shortage in critics of Falun Gong, only on Wikipedia we might have a chance ask them to play by the rules. So who really has COI in this case? Well to find that answer I guess the right question is:

• On the article talk page, who is evading the discussion of the content, by discussing endlessly about the contributor?

I think Simon is one such person so I did provide the diffs for it. Maybe you can form an opinion about 2 other such editors present on this page, based on their comments, and I can assure you there are a few more.

After all the directive from the CCP is: "Destroy their reputation, bankrupt them financially and annihilate them physically." (Understood)

Please don't take this against me. I have said before and I'll say it now, on Wikipedia there are all kind of people with all kinds of ideas, per WP:NPOV and WP:RS all the relevant ideas should be presented, this makes this encyclopedia healthy. For this all I'm asking is a rational point by point discussion and not blind reverts.

If I got something wrong, please point it out. Thank you! --HappyInGeneral (talk) 02:05, 15 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

@Enric: Regarding the IDIDNTHEARTHAT thing: This is an excellent point to bring up. And actually this is a better diff. Basically Enric failed to point out how have I failed answer him, and if you do read that section you will notice that I did answer every point that I should have, while I did take my time to repeat the question to the point it out the best as I can my question to him, to which he just dismissed the question as it would a "game".

So my question is who is playing the IDIDNTHEARTHAT thing? If you have time please evaluate and let me know. Thank you! --HappyInGeneral (talk) 11:37, 15 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

@Enric: Just now I noticed, you used this diff to show that I'm a self declared Falun Gong practitioner. It is a bit curios why you didn't you just not use my User:HappyInGeneral page, that statement is up there since I joined Wikipedia, and I view that as being honest. --HappyInGeneral (talk) 12:08, 15 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

@Simomn: Sorry if you took that personally. I did not say a word about you, I only gave an official source from the House of Commons who are saying that the directive from the CCP is: "Destroy their reputation, bankrupt them financially and annihilate them physically.". Considering how huge the CCP propaganda machine is I would be surprised if there would not be anyone at least influenced by it to further it's message. Now you will notice that I'm only speaking my mind, and I'm not providing any evidence against you or anyone here in particular. I'm just pointing out what is the context of the subject is right now so people who might not have lived in or near mainland China can understand the context. Best Regards. --HappyInGeneral (talk) 11:45, 15 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

@Ohconfucius: Quoting you "The deceptively large number of different articles".

My question to you: How did I deceive anyone? This edit counter shows precisely which are the article that have my main interest.

My problem with your edit is that you are continuing to engage in bad faith negative comments against me, holding against me even air if you could. --HappyInGeneral (talk) 11:56, 15 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

@Colipon: Can you give me an example where genuine NPOV edits is difficult because of me? Thanks.

@Administrators: Please check out the massive content loss at the Persecution of Falun Gong page. The Diff looks like this because at one point the persecution page was even renamed into History of Falun Gong. The persecution page survived, only because in it's deletion no consensus was reached, see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Persecution of Falun Gong and that is because I invited a few more uninvolved editors to join the talk. Otherwise I alone might have been successfully gunned out.

The same pattern of deluding the fact happened while moving out of the view the:

• Reports of organ harvesting from Falun Gong practitioners in China to Organ harvesting in the People's Republic of China, see the talk: Talk:Organ harvesting in the People's Republic of China/FG poll
• Human rights torch relay to Coalition to Investigate the Persecution of Falun Gong, here is the talk behind it: Talk:Human_Rights_Torch_Relay#Notability (here is mostly my fault because even though there are so many source I have not have the time to build up a stronger article there.)
• and maybe more, of which I'm not aware of right now.

This kind of behavior is basically defending the worst totalitarian regime, by hiding, moving out of scope the WP:RS related to it, thus damaging Wikipedia and it's credibility, with brute force. Sometime I truly wonder if people are payed by it or just influenced by it's massive propaganda. Still do a headcount of the sides that you manage to identify, and then do a time count, and the picture will be extremely clear. It does not matter if somebody agrees with me or not, all that matters to me if a rational discussion can be conducted based on the principles of Wikipedia like WP:RS, WP:N, etc...

Thus if it is possible to get more neutral editors to this topic, I would be immensely appreciative. But until then let's at least keep civil and discuss the content not the editor. If that is achieved, Wikipedia will win and I don't care then if Simomn223 is banned or not. --HappyInGeneral (talk) 16:12, 15 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

@Simon I understand that I was complaining that you where talking without any base, so I guess should not do the same. See here some sources:

• Google to end censorship in China over cyber attacks | Technology | The Guardian
  • Official Google Blog: A new approach to China
• Hacking The Regime | The New Republic

And again even if you get upset about this you should have no reason, because I'm not saying that this source relates to you. On the other hand I'm saying that these things exist per WP:RS.

And I'm saying another very important thing. You will see me providing this "context" only on the arbitration pages, on the talk pages you will see me only discussing about the content and about the sources. If we can get into this cycle we can do something good for this encyclopedia. --HappyInGeneral (talk) 17:00, 15 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

@Administrator: Please let me know if there is anything I missed and I should clarify. Thanks --HappyInGeneral (talk) 12:44, 15 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

@Administrator: Wikipedia, is not a battleground, I see, and I fully agree since I do believe in talk. Under this spirit, I'm sorry to have fueled such an environment. I think I did strike out all those remarks, however if I missed something, please point it out and I'll fix it. Thank you! --HappyInGeneral (talk) 13:10, 16 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

@Administrator:

No matter what the outcome may be, will you in the end have something in place that will reward discussion and discourage blind reverts? As I see it this is the only way to ensure to improve Wikipedia. Thanks. --HappyInGeneral (talk) 13:05, 16 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The latest example (food for thought):

• Here is the section to discuss point by point 14 changes Talk:Falun_Gong#Changes_and_discussion_for_them comment added at 15:29, 14 January 2010. In these changes Asdf put some effort, 14 diffs, and if any of those would be objectionable it could be pointed out, it can be clearly pointed out.
• However, even though request for discussion was clearly expressed on the talk page, and in the edit summaries there where 3 reverts [24], [25], [26] and no discussion about the actual changes.

In my understanding Wikipedia is a collaborative encyclopedia where we should evaluate the merit of the edits, not blindly push forward or defend a certain view. And that is why I would like to know if you consider to have something in place that will reward discussion and discourage blind reverts. Thank you! --HappyInGeneral (talk) 13:31, 16 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by others about the request concerning HappyInGeneral

Comment by Asdfg12345

Nothing substantial to add. Basically, what we are seeing are content disputes. But calls for discussion are being ignored, and instead things are being reverted and labels being thrown around. This isn't what wikipedia is about. People have to discuss things, refer to sources, etc. I'm confused by this whole thing, really. I'm not aware of what rules HappyInGeneral has violated; Enric doesn't list them. Reverting reverts of my edits? Is that out-and-out wrong? What if that was justified? What if I added relevant, sourced material and someone removed it without discussion? I don't see how this is a criteria. Of course, tag teaming and bad behaviour should be sanctioned, but it's totally unclear what's wrong in these cases. Show me some policies he's broken. Show me some diffs of disruptive editing. If HappyInGeneral was restoring mindless deletions of anyone else's edits, I'd support him there, too. The complaint seems quite vague to me, and appears to be based on a kind of feeling rather than solid evidence of wrongdoing. Some specific points: HappyInGeneral doesn't have a COI; I've explained all my edits, both on talk page and in edit summary, and done my best to encourage discussion. Both of us should edit a wider variety of pages, I agree. But there's no evidence of wrongdoing here.--Asdfg12345 01:08, 15 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by Simonm223

Contrary to Asdfg12345's statement HappyInGeneral has a very strong CoI. Although Happy has participated productively in other areas of Wikipedia, whenever it comes to FLG articles the pro-FLG POV takes over. Although not as disruptive as Asdfg12345 HappyInGeneral has not assisted in bringing neutrality to the FLG articles. Simonm223 (talk) 02:41, 15 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Having just reviewed this thread again I noticed something sadly typical. Happy is now implying I am taking "directives" from the communist party of china. Simonm223 (talk) 04:26, 15 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

As demonstrated by this [27] recent edit here Happy continues to operate under the assumption that other editors are trying to "defend the worst totalitarian regime". Now, notwithstanding the fact that this violates WP:AGF in all kinds of ways, notwithstanding the fact that the claim is baseless, non FLG editors want a neutral article, not one that defends China, the fact that Happy believes China to be the "worst totalitarian regime" (China is considered an authoritarian state in academic circles and is not, in fact, technically totalitarian at all) demonstrates the clear and systemic neutrality and COI issues that HappyInGeneral (and Asdfg12345) have with FLG articles. Simonm223 (talk) 16:38, 15 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by Ohconfucius

The deceptively large number of different articles edited by him are the result of his acquiring and using automated tools to perform gnoming tasks around WP. However, in terms of actually contributing to content, Happy is, to all intents and purposes, a single purpose account. One very good example of his advocacy is above. Then, there is this series of edits which was used material from SPS or COI (e.g. Epoch Times) sources. However, I would give him some credit for not rolling it back to this final version created by fellow practitioner in which all the criticism was expunged.

To illustrate the dynamic on most of the FLG articles, I cite a conflict has been going on for quite some time—over the exact date of birth of Li Hongzhi, and thus the appropriateness of using the word 'claim':

This is one edit in which Happy changes the word 'claims' to 'says'. I change it back, but it is gone again in the next edit (asdfg). I undo it.

A few months later, asdfg changes it again as part of another larger edit, which is reverted by PCPP, and a tug of war ensues. Asdfg restores it, to be restored by Simon. Happy moves in swiftly to undo Simon.

I once again restore 'claim', but it is removed by asdfg in this edit, which coincidentally shows the propensity of Falun Gong editors to insist on substituting, where convenient to them, the word 'persecution' for all other synonyms such as 'suppression', 'crackdown' etc. In this version of History of Falun Gong from June 2007, when Falun Gong editors held the upper hand, I count 13 appearances of 'persecution'. The current version has two occurrences (although it would be fair to disclose that the article was entitled 'Persecution of Falun Gong' in June 2007).

In other cases, an evangelical tendency will not generally brush with WP:COI. However, as mentioned elsewhere on this page, the propensity of Falun Gong practitioners to go out and proselytise and defend the Dafa with zeal and force is a trait which needs to to be experienced to be comprehended. Happy's vociferousness in this connection is harmful to the editing ambiance at these 'paroled' articles because (I suspect) he feels he embodies the Dafa. While I can handle one Falun Gong editor at a time, I find the presence of a second, operating as Happy does, extremely distracting and disruptive. The reason why I am less sympathetic to Happy and more so to Asdfg is that I feel the latter can edit with sufficient detacthment, whereas Happy cannot. It would do Happy no harm to spend short time away from Falun Gong; he should gain some experience contributing content to other articles instead of point-pushing when he is too close to the subject. Ohconfucius ^¡digame! 05:30, 16 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

As to the "massive content loss at the Persecution of Falun Gong page", it must be noted that instead of one article, there are now two, one called 'History of Falun Gong', and a newer 'Persecution of Falun Gong' article. Ohconfucius ^¡digame! 05:46, 16 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It seems that there may be misunderstanding the point I was trying to make about the dynamic interaction. I just picked out the word 'claim' because it is a good illustrative example which is easily missed if not pointed out. The sensitivity of Falun Gong practitioners to any criticism of their master's teachings is legend. Of course there are major disagreements about text and sources and what constitutes a reliable source. I wanted to illustrate that quite a lot of the warring takes place on a low, semantic level too. Ohconfucius ^¡digame! 11:30, 16 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Colipon

There is no doubt in my mind that HappyInGeneral has always been a single-purpose account, despite his recent leanings towards automated wiki-tools, which was ostensibly set up to curb the notion that he is a Falun Gong SPA. While Happy has certainly been less destructive than Asdfg in his edits, the presence of both editors makes NPOV editing extremely difficult.

Statement by Mrund

HappyInGeneral is an unabashed single-purpose account dedicated to polishing Falun Gong's image. S/he does so with such round-the-clock dedication that I can only conclude that hes employer allows hem to patrol Wikipedia during office hours. It would not hurt Wikipedia in any meaningful way if s/he were banned, as all the constructive work s/he does is automated cleaning. My opinion of Asdfg12345 is similar. Martin Rundkvist (talk) 22:28, 15 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by PCPP

There is little to say about this editor, who does not try to hide the fact that he is a FLG activist. His user page is basically a violation of WP:USER by advocating for FLG propaganda, and his editing history concurs. Even in this very page, he is involved in WP:ADVOCACY and WP:LAWYER, showing that currently he is obviously not interested in editing the FLG articles in accordance with WP:NPOV. --PCPP (talk) 07:17, 16 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by Abrazame

I fail to see why the change from someone claiming they have a certain birthdate to someone saying they have a certain birthdate is the sort of thing one notes in support of what ultimately seems to be shaping up to be a six-month topic ban. "Claim" sounds to be the more POV phrasing in this case, and HappyInGeneral's choice of the other phrase seems perfectly reasonable (he apparently referenced the change to a Time magazine interview that gave the date context). I'm not intimately involved in any of this, but after viewing some of the diffs here it seems that there should be some more productive way to arbitrate this. I presume there have been short-term topic bans; is there a way to limit the number of edits per article per day or week? Isn't that really what is desired here?

My only experience with this issue was a Neutral point of view/Noticeboard thread where it seemed that the POV was going in decidedly the opposite direction than is currently being claimed (or, as some surely prefer, said), HappyInGeneral being the forthright party accurately representing refs and definitions and coming up against the enforcement of a POV party line. With topics so profoundly loaded, we need to take extreme care to ensure that we aren't prohibiting a user who is a balancing force on a scale that would in his absence tip further askew — especially as an allegedly similar editor seems to be about to be topic-banned for the same six months in the previous thread here. I note the respondent in the administrative section below and hope that those administrators officially weighing in on this will take the time to understand the sensitivity of this issue and the substance of the argument against HIG, and see if there isn't any more constructive way of getting it through to all parties involved that reverting claims to says and back sounds more like a petty interpersonal issue deserving a reprimand than it does a problematic edit justifying a six-month topic ban. I don't know if every point in this diff included by the OP was discussed on that article's talk page as HappyInGeneral requested, but most of the changes he makes do not strike me as objectionable POV. Again, if the idea is that HIG reverts too frequently or makes more edits than can reasonably be reviewed, perhaps the best answer is to limit the number of edits he's allowed to make per day, so that he learns to fully and concisely state his case about a change (and, in return, his edits need to actually be objectionable POV to be castigated and reverted as such). Abrazame (talk) 09:24, 16 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Result concerning HappyInGeneral

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

As with Asdfg12345 above, the evidence submitted (especially the edit counter) and a review of his contributions indicates that, when HappyInGeneral (talk · contribs) is not making automated vandalism reverts, he edits articles with a view to making them more sympathetic to Falun Gong. Like Asdfg12345, he is also involved in edit wars on the topic, which matches the finding of a majority of arbitrators voting on the case back in 2007 ([28]). In addition, it is of great concern to me that in this very forum he is making comments ([29]) that can be reasonably read only as insinuating that those who disagree with him are agents or tools of the Chinese Communist Party. This is in direct conflict with the Committee's reminder, at WP:AFLG#Wikipedia is not a battleground, that "Use of the site for ideological struggle accompanied by harassment of opponents is extremely disruptive." For these reasons, if no administrator colleagues disagree, I intend to impose a six months topic ban on HappyInGeneral as well, with the additional reminder that any violations may result in an extension of the ban to indefinite, or lengthy blocks, or both.  Sandstein  19:52, 15 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I tentatively endorse this on the battleground behavior alone. I have not examined the evidence in depth, so I cannot stand behind the rest, but there is certain stuff that just doesn't - or at least shouldn't - fly around here.--Tznkai (talk) 00:35, 16 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

For the reasons given above, and with reference to my comments regarding Asdfg12345, under the authority of Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Falun Gong#Article probation, HappyInGeneral (talk · contribs) is banned from editing Falun Gong and all related discussions and other content (including talk pages and process discussions, except only for legitimate and necessary dispute resolution involving himself) for six months. This sanction may be appealed to the Arbitration Committee, or as provided for by Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee/Discretionary sanctions should the Arbitration Committee enable discretionary sanctions in this case.

A few additional comments: Because of his previous battleground-like conduct, HappyInGeneral's topic ban, unlike that of Asdfg12345, also includes all discussions concerning Falun Gong. With respect to his question "Will you in the end have something in place that will reward discussion and discourage blind reverts?", well, you're looking at it. We can't hand out rewards, but we can sanction editors who cross certain lines of disruptive conduct, including edit-warring. The rest, as always, is up to the community of editors.  Sandstein  23:14, 16 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Request concerning Radeksz

User requesting enforcement

 Matthead  Discuß   18:03, 21 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested

Radeksz (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy that this user violated

Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Digwuren#Editors_warned and Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Eastern European mailing list#Radeksz_topic_banned

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

1. 13:01, 21 January 2010 Radeksz (for you: new section) Crude rant on my talk page by Radeksz, mentioning Eastern European places like Olsztyn/Allenstein and Danzig, and closing with "If you assholes didn't get all quasi-Nazi ..."
2. 12:57, 21 January 2010 24.197.219.130 (Seriously: new section) Preceding very similar rant by 24.197.219.130 (talk · contribs), which was very likely Radeksz, too.

Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)

1. [30] Notification about EEML case by Mailer diablo (talk · contribs)
2. [31] Notification about Digwuren case by Thatcher (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)

Enforcement action requested (block, topic ban or other sanction)

As a topic ban is already in effect, a block seems necessary.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

I was kind of puzzled by these provocative edits to my talk page (and Radeksz' user page), and gave him a couple of hours to retract them.

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

[32]

Discussion concerning Radeksz

Statement by Radeksz

Go ahead and block away. The posts on Matthead's page should've been sent as personal emails and were meant as a "let's be honest here" kind of frank talk.radek (talk) 19:10, 21 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Re:henrik. Yes.radek (talk) 23:25, 21 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by others about the request concerning Radeksz

Statement by Pantherskin

Is this request really necessary. It is evident from Radeksz's recent edit history that he not only fully abides by his restrictions, but also contributes in a very positive and commendable way to topic areas in dire need of attention. Pantherskin (talk) 18:33, 21 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Henrik

Radeksz has redacted his comments[33], which is commendable. Radeksz, can we get an assurance that you'll phrase yourself more politely in the future? (i.e. not using terms like "assholes" or "quasi-Nazi")? henrik•talk 20:39, 21 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Martintg

Matthead's behaviour has been rather provocative of late in the Polish topic space, for example, contentiously disputing on Talk:Poles and Talk:Nicolaus Copernicus that Copernicus was not Polish here and here, even though the authoritative Encyclopedia Britannica clearly and unambiguously acknowledges Copernicus to be Polish [34]. My reading of Radek's comment on Matthead's talk page is that it was a plea that it is possible to collaborate more substantively and meaningfully with Polish editors rather than persist in these petty nationalist claims that mainstream sources do not support nor add value to the encyclopedia. --Martin (talk) 11:15, 22 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Varsovian

Radek's comment was most probably a plea for Matthead to co-operate. However, calling other editors "quasi-Nazis" is entirely unacceptable, especially when addressed to a German editor. I also feel it is unacceptable to claim that Matthead was somehow 'asking for it' as Marting does in his statement above.Varsovian (talk) 12:48, 22 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Loosmark

A very shocking provocation by Matthead designed to bait Polish editors [35] Copernicus was about as Polish as Jesus was Italian - or less.  Dr. Loosmark  12:58, 22 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Result concerning Radeksz

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

The user talk comments at issue were probably not technically in violation of the ban, since the ban only applies to articles, article talk pages and process discussions concerning these. They have also been undone. Therefore I don't think enforcement action is required here. But the comments were aggressive and violate the purpose of the topic ban, which is to get Radeksz to disengage from the subject. Radeksz is therefore warned not to pull such stunts again or he may be made subject to more comprehensive and/or longer sanctions.

The commenting editors Martintg and Loosmark are also warned that they may be banned from commenting in Eastern Europe AE threads not concerning themselves if they continue to make statements that are not useful for the single purpose of helping administrators determine whether sanctions are needed against the editor who is the subject of the request. In particular, allegations of misconduct by the reporting editor are not relevant to an AE thread, but should be reported in a separate request if (and only if) they require enforcement action, or else they belong to dispute resolution, for which AE is not a forum. AE is also not a venue in which to pursue or discuss silly nationalist content disputes such as about the nationality of astronomers.  Sandstein  14:14, 22 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Request concerning Neftchi

User requesting enforcement

Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 18:17, 22 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested

Neftchi (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy that this user violated

WP:ARBAA2

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

1. [36], First revert of controversial material

2. [37], second revert, made within 24 hours of the above, in violation of his ArbCom restriction

Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)

[38] Warning by Moreschi (talk · contribs)

Enforcement action requested (block, topic ban or other sanction)

Left to the discretion of administrator (block, along with tighter restrictions perhaps?)

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

It's probably inconsequential that I say this, but Neftchi's edits are usually characterized by the "hitting and running" of articles. His comment that there has been no talk on the article in question rings hollow when he completely refrains from doing so on any article. I feel that far more tighter restrictions be imposed so that he is encouraged to use the talk page to resolve disputes, rather than clicking on the revert button to undo whatever he dislikes.--Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 18:17, 22 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

[39]

Discussion concerning Neftchi

Statement by Neftchi

I undid the removal of a large section of sourced material from the article, which was not discussed and agreed at talk, and such removal is pretty much the same thing as vandalism. See here for the removal by MarshallBagramyan. I just restored sourced material that was removed without any discussion or consensus, and invited those who removed it to discuss it at talk first. Admins should not encourage such POV edits as removal of large chunks of text without consensus. Neftchi (talk) 09:20, 23 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It does not constitute the "same thing as vandalism" by your simply saying so. The sources that are being used in that section are highly parisan and clearly unreliable. At least two established users (Meowy and myself) have expressed our reservations on the inclusion of that same material on other articles in Wikipedia. You, on the other hand, have yet to offer counter-arguments with perhaps the exception of crying "vandalism". You were explicitly warned by Moreschi to refrain from making drive-by-reverts and no sooner had I removed the contentious material, you reverted me, in clear violation of your 1RR (per 24hr) parole.--Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 19:35, 23 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by others about the request concerning Neftchi

This request seems odd amid traditional edit-ninja pattern, practised by several Armenian users. The article history of Azerbaijani culture is one of the examples when a new Armenian editor appears out of the blue to revert another without reply at talk. I don't think this particular request is the best way to settle such disagreements. Brand[t] 08:18, 23 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The revert restriction was imposed for a reason - precisely to curtail and prevent the edit wars that you so fervently decry.--Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 19:35, 23 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

This sort of material can't properly be addressed. The unique selling point of Wikipedia is its usefulness in the dissemination of lies and propaganda, and those that run Wikipedia seem happy for that to remain the case. A whole publishing and PR industry is being built to use Wikipedia for that purpose. For this particular example, as long as Armenians at state level continue with their total disregard for anything approaching media management (excusing their inactivity by saying that these sort of Azerbiajani lies are such obvious lies that they can be ignored), and as long as all Armenian organisations are interested only in producing their same, tired old "by Armenians for Armenians" responses, this particular chunk of lies and propaganda is going to be difficult to counter. But I'll try. So much that is done on Wikipedia is done for purely personal reasons - like the satisfaction that is gained through kicking other editors where it hurts them the most. Time to put on my heaviest pair of kicking boots. Meowy 16:34, 25 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

That's now two unhelpful, aggressive and battleground-like WP:AE statements in one day from Meowy (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), a user with an unfortunately long topic-related block log. I've had enough. Under the authority of WP:ARBAA2#Amended Remedies and Enforcement Meowy is hereby indefinitely banned from commenting on any arbitration enforcement request (on any page) related to Armenia or Azerbaijan where he is not either the requesting editor or the subject of the request.  Sandstein  19:46, 25 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Result concerning Neftchi

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

Reverting without discussion is one of the more destructive things one can do to the collaborative spirit needed to successfully build articles, especially in areas of nationalistic or ethnic strife. All recent editors have shown a lack of collaborative spirit, using terms like "propaganda" "obnoxious" and "lies" in edit summaries of Azerbaijani culture, while the talk page has astoundingly had just one single edit since June, made after this request was posted. I hope all parties will reconsider their own behavior.

However, this is a clear violation of the revert restriction imposed by Moreschi, and Neftchi's statement does not give a convincing rationale why this violation was necessary. Per Wikipedia:ARBAA2#Amended_Remedies_and_Enforcement I have suspended Neftchi's editing privileges for 72 hours. Also, Neftchi is for the duration of the revert restriction required to post a note on the talk page explaining his rationale whenever he reverts any article in the subject area, excepting cases of blatant vandalism. henrik•talk 21:05, 23 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Request concerning Ashill55

User requesting enforcement

O Fenian (talk) 23:33, 24 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested

Ashill55 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy that this user violated

Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/The_Troubles#Final remedies for AE case

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

1. [40] First revert
2. [41] Second revert in less than 24 hours, thus a violation of 1RR
3. [42] Third Revert.

Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)

# [43] Warning by O Fenian (talk · contribs)

Enforcement action requested (block, topic ban or other sanction)

Unsure

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

Both edits are a revert to a wording the same editor has previously added, ie "Warnings never reached" which is not what the source says

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

[44]

Discussion concerning Ashill55

The same editor was editing as 88.108.156.13 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) prior to creating an account. The editor is a single purpose account dedicated to inserting the same unsourced wording that is seemingly contradicted by the reliable source already cited in the article, and edit warring to retain it. I am not interested which methods administrators use to deal with this matter, providing the editor stops edit warring to add unsourced content. Thank you. O Fenian (talk) 19:26, 25 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Ashill55

Comments by others about the request concerning Ashill55

Result concerning Ashill55

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

• This appears to be a new user, please try explaining the issue to him before coming here. New users are not expected to immediately understand all our policies and procedures. A personalized message is usually more successful than posting templates (especially multiple copies of the same template). henrik•talk 15:25, 25 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]