Well-meaning editors: Do not edit comments from others on this page. Thank you.

Articles which make "allegations" make bad encyclopedia articles, especially when any sort of POV can be attached thereto. I suggest that articles subject to WP:BLP in any manner which make allegations be strongly constrained.

I find it interesting that an editor who avers he is "collegial" would ever have posted anything remotely like:

I have some derogatory and self-created (by him) information that I would like to reveal regarding ***. But, I would like to create a situation where most of the editors that have worked to formulate a quality article are present. Unless *** pushes too much, I will probably wait till closer to the election. (I feel like Sam Spade/Private Detective).

And then, lets just go back to being fellow editors with an extreme dislike for an editor whose name begins with a C and ends in a T.

Sound "collegial to you? [2] shows his ideal BLP edit.

Quote of the day from an editor who seems to regard his own screeds as the epitome of "wit":

Twain is the perennial favorite of intellectual pygmies who believe a trite quote has the power to increase their stature.

I rather think his "wit" speaks for itself pretty clearly.

Some of my essays:

WP:False consensus

WP:KNOW

WP:Advocacy articles

WP:PIECE

WP:Defend to the Death

WP:Midden

WP:Baby and Bathwater

WP:Wikifurniture

WP:Contentious

WP:Sex, Religion and Politics

WP:Editorially involved

WP:Mutual admiration society

WP:Source pH

WP:Sledgehammer

WP:Variable RS

User:Collect/Collect's Law

User:Collect has been identified as an Awesome Wikipedian, and therefore, I've officially declared today as Collect's day! For being such a beautiful person and great Wikipedian, enjoy being the Star of the day, dear Collect! Peace, Rlevse 00:02, 7 September 2010 (UTC)[reply] A record of your Day will always be kept here.

For a userbox you can add to your userbox page, see User:Rlevse/Today/Happy Me Day! and my own userpage for a sample of how to use it. — Rlevse • Talk • 00:02, 7 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

And sincere best regards and thanks to you! Collect (talk) 00:09, 7 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The Arbitration Committee has made one of the singular worst decisions in its entire history, finding that a person may be given a broad topic ban for simply having what an arb calls his "general attitude" and without a scintilla of evidence of wrongdoing. And while being told that "bickering" was a blockable offence (where the bickering was opposing this decision!) Thus I say Ave atque vale, which someone is sure to say is offensive.

For my Jewish friends: Lo alecha hamlacha ligmor.

The committee members will, of course, be the topic of an ACE2013 essay here, and I welcome suggestions as to what I ought say about them.

Adios, Adieu, Farvel, Auf Wiedersehen, Dosvedanya, and no real time to say Good-Bye in every language around ... Collect (talk) 12:21, 5 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Collect, I do urge you to reconsider, irresepctive of what I might consider to be the merits (or lack thereof) of the ArbCom decision. Nelson Mandela was wrongly arrested and jailed, but did not give up, and look where he ended up. By running away, you allow them to win, and/or show that they were right. By sticking around, dilligently working on the outside of the prescribed limits, you prove them to be wrong. Perceived injustice is only turned into justice by running away ES&L 17:07, 5 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I am not dead - but I endeavour that this shall be a Pyrhhic victory for those who back such results. When called to task for quoting TR, by a person who apparently disdains any "hard to understand words", then it is fairly clear that Wikipedia really has some choices to make, n'est-ce pas? Expect an interesting ACE2013 essay inn this userspace. Collect (talk) 17:18, 5 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Collect, for reasons completely unrelated to you, I have not been following a great many things on Wikipedia lately, including the tea party thing, so I didn't even know you were topic banned. That aside, I'd just like to say that if you leave, I'll miss you. Whatever you do, take care of yourself. Best.--Bbb23 (talk) 20:46, 5 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

For a while, you will be the only person left really protecting BLPs. I dasn't (archaic) edit there because who knows what "broadly construed" means -- I know that some senior (poobahs) apparently do not regard them as a serious issue <g>. It looks from here that "chronophagous" is the single most apt term for a runaway ArbCom. Cheers. Collect (talk) 21:28, 5 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I'm going to assume this is au revoir instead. KillerChihuahua 03:04, 6 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I had awaited Jimbo's reply to my emails about the appeal before fully departing (I did not participate in any of the Legobot RfC calls which I had usually done, etc.) -- so far, he has not deemed me worthy of a single response at all, and I rather feel that the delay is indicative of his valuation of editors, so - so much for Jimbo. Collect (talk) 21:07, 12 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The Arbitration Committee is currently hearing a case relating to US Politics. The case information page is here. This message is to inform you that evidence has been submitted about your conduct. As a result, the committee is now scrutinising your conduct in this topic area. If you wish to give one, your reply to this evidence must be received by 13 May 2014 if it is to be fully considered by the committee. The evidence is in one or more submissions on this page. You may reply to evidence by posting in a new section on this page. You may also submit your own evidence, subject to the rules imposed on evidence submission (and the 13 May deadline). I must also make you aware that the evidence that has been submitted about your conduct may, in the course of these proceedings, lead to an arbitrator proposing you be sanctioned as part of the committee's final decision for this case. Please contact a committee clerk if you are not sure what this means. Thank you for your attention. For the Arbitration Committee, AGK [•] 08:28, 10 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I trust any arbitrators who proffered evidence in any prior case about me will recuse as is proper. Cheers. Collect (talk) 10:29, 10 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

With "proffered evidence", I assume you are trying to say "drafted decisions". This is part of my responsibilities as an arbitrator, and therefore is not grounds for recusal. Please familiarise yourself with, and then follow, the arbitration policy § Recusal of arbitrators. Thank you, AGK [•] 14:52, 10 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

For lurkers: [3] was the "proposed decision" including a number of people who had never been a part of the case whatsoever.

[4] shows a reasonably directly personal interaction with me:

You are not a teacher; we are equals. You should not have expected me not to correct what I considered a misunderstanding in the question: that one arbitrator's private approach does not mean the whole committee ignored the workshop and evidence pages. In your question, you wrongly implied we did. You will vote however you like, and I am frankly not interested in changing your mind, but you should at least be honest about why you are opposing me. At the moment, you are not. I will say nothing more on the matter. Regards, (User:AGK) (emphasis mine - it looks like he is saying I am not honest in how I treated him)

and [5] has

You say you are going to evaluate answers in an "impartial manner" and assign values "from 0 to 5 for each answer … In several cases the aim of the question is to get a feeling for the Wikianschauung of the candidate". Could you therefore explain how my seven answers together returned a score of 'one?' ((AGK)

[6] shows the "answers" and I invite lurkers to "grade" them as responses here. Thanks to all. Collect (talk) 14:03, 10 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Lurkers: Iterating: Please grade the answers linked to. Collect (talk) 15:01, 10 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I would ask you to remove this section, because it contravenes Wikipedia policy as at WP:POLEMIC. Thank you, AGK [•] 14:48, 10 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Who am I "attacking or vilifying"? Whose flaws am I making polemical claims about? Is there "personal information" presented? Is the section "unrelated to Wikipedia"? By the way, WP:POLEMIC is not a policy - it is a guideline, and you are quite free to propose the page for deletion at WP:MFD I suppose. Using your "Arb Hat" here, however, does not exactly impress me. Cheers. Collect (talk) 15:01, 10 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I am not speaking as an arbitrator; I am asking you to extend the expected level of respect to another contributor. Only you can decide whether or not to do so. AGK [•] 22:09, 11 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

You mentioned that my comments were "Is pure drama seeking-- the discussion was on the same page, and readily quite viewable." This is, not surprisingly, not my opinion. I personally feel it shows a certain level for a failure to assume my good faith, but that's fine. I don't particularly care.

But, I did mean what I said quite literally, if there is a discussion about the 2002 source please provide me with a link, because I do not see it. If there isn't, could you please comment specifically about how my sentence is inserting (or interpolating) my own opinion into the source. I copy and pasted the relevant paragraph from the source and my addition into the article. Thenub314 (talk) 14:35, 10 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Please see exactly what was encompassed in the prior discussions. I have avoided "drama boards" and I commend the same position to others. Cheers. Collect (talk) 14:44, 10 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

• I had made this comment and request in relation to you at that noticeboard, but as you have not adhered to it, I am not sure if it got lost in the noise (maybe as you do not want to follow that discussion anymore) or if you are not willing to see it through. Would you be willing to adhere to it to help sort the misunderstanding out? Thank you, Ncmvocalist (talk) 14:40, 12 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I think it is pretty clear that the end result will be the general blocking of many from all US politics articles for the next year. I have not had time to put together anything, and likely will not any time soon. My time has been consumed by family for the past 6 months, and that won't be changing anytime soon. I do hope I am wrong, however, about my first sentence. Arzel (talk) 20:48, 10 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I see that I am correct. RC was clearly going to present his solution regardless of any "evidence", and hear I thought RfU were designed to address concerns. Arzel (talk) 13:36, 13 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Greetings! You have been randomly selected to receive an invitation to participate in the request for comment on Talk:Tim Huelskamp. Should you wish to respond to the invitation, your contribution to this discussion will be very much appreciated! If in doubt, please see suggestions for responding. If you do not wish to receive these types of notices, please remove your name from Wikipedia:Feedback request service. — Legobot (talk) 00:00, 12 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

This section was not initially intended to be posted -- alas there is a lot of activity among editors seeking to "co-ordinate" evidence, which I find to be a very disturbing type of activity. (and the fact is that WP:BLP is an ongoing struggle for those remaining - just this morning an editor said that if allegations of "racial bigotry" falling in articles covered by the van Mises case were "verifiable" (as being printed), but he fails to note that the tem "contentious claims" well covers allegations of "racial bigotry" as needing strong sources, not just "someone wrote that:)) When such co-ordination exists, the probability increases that such coordinated efforts will have their desired result - to successfully attack the editor about whom the "evidence" is intended by sheer dint of repetition (The "Wikipedia gloss" I cite in the evidence).

The following evidence was not "provided by others", therefore the evidence was provided by AGK. The "evidence" is not found in any post on the Evidence page whatsoever:

11) Collect (talk · contribs) has been dismissive of other users' views (e.g. [7]) and needlessly inflamed tensions with the other disputants

([8],

[9],

[10],

[11]).

and was posted by AGK as a "finding" in the TPM case. . This was not just "drafting" a decision- it is actively acting as investigator and as prosecutor in a case where the poster also is a judge.

I invite lurkers to weigh in on the "momentous importance" of the evidence, noting no one but AGK had mentioned it, and in context not a single one was offensive to anyone.

With "proffered evidence", I assume you are trying to say "drafted decisions". This is part of my responsibilities as an arbitrator, and therefore is not grounds for recusal. Please familiarize yourself with, and then follow, the arbitration policy § Recusal of arbitrators. Thank you, AGK [•] 14:52, 10 May 2014 (UTC) (AGK)

The section about arbitrator recusal which he referred to directly states:

and is expected to do so where he or she has a significant conflict of interest. Typically, a conflict of interest includes significant personal involvement in the substance of the dispute or significant personal involvement with one of the parties

Which is pretty evident in the case at hand - AGK has had significant personal contact outside normal arbitrator contact with me. If any personal animus is seen, recusal is the only option.

The person then posted:

I am not speaking as an arbitrator; I am asking you to extend the expected level of respect to another contributor. Only you can decide whether or not to do so. AGK [•] 22:09, 11 May 2014 (UTC)

Consider - a judge "asks" you to do something. Do you assume he is telling you the truth when he says "this request has nothing to do with the fact I sit in judgment on you"? Really?

Where an arb is directly involved in the production of evidence, in the examination of that self-same evidence, and in the sanctions proposed on the basis of the evidence he himself provided, that is clearly beyond just "drafting" and falls well into "personal involvement."

Beyond that:

[12] was the "proposed decision" for the Tea Party case including a number of people who had never been a part of the case whatsoever.

[13] shows a reasonably direct personal interaction with me completely unrelated to any arbitration proceeding:

You are not a teacher; we are equals. You should not have expected me not to correct what I considered a misunderstanding in the question: that one arbitrator's private approach does not mean the whole committee ignored the workshop and evidence pages. In your question, you wrongly implied we did. You will vote however you like, and I am frankly not interested in changing your mind, but you should at least be honest about why you are opposing me. At the moment, you are not. I will say nothing more on the matter. Regards, (User:AGK) (emphasis mine - it looks like he is saying I am not honest in how I treated him)

and [14] has

You say you are going to evaluate answers in an "impartial manner" and assign values "from 0 to 5 for each answer … In several cases the aim of the question is to get a feeling for the Wikianschauung of the candidate". Could you therefore explain how my seven answers together returned a score of 'one?' ((AGK)

[15] shows the questions and answers from the ArbCom election pages.

On my user talk page the following "suggestion" was made:

I would ask you to remove this section, because it contravenes Wikipedia policy as at WP:POLEMIC. Thank you, AGK [•] 14:48, 10 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: WP:POLEMIC is not a "policy" and, in fact, discourse relating to Wikipedia, and especially including evidence is specifically allowed in user space.

From his posts:

_Collect You are not sure whether this is or is not a quote, but no, evidence and workshop pages are never ignored by the committee or by me. despite the fact that is was an exact quote, and one which he appears not to have wanted to read.

People naturally gravitate towards groups that support their own view.

shows a clear desire to categorize editors as "part of a group" which I find to be an abhorrent and misused concept for an arbitrator. Especially as he had classed me as part of a very large "group" in the Tea Party case. And in the case at hand where he sought to label editors as belong to "factions" with which, thankfully, otter arbitrators demurred.

AGK specifically directs our attention to his comments in this thread

[16] To respond to the original point, I will merely say that now arbitration of the dispute has became necessary, it is exceedingly unlikely that we would be able to close the case without any sanctions. Problematic articles inevitably contain disruptive contributors, and disruptive contributors inevitably require sanctions.

I did not say that you misquoted me. I said that you repeated what I said without comprehending it. The point is that this is not a case where "we can sanction someone, so we will". It is a case where "somebody is being disruptive, so we need to sanction them". Either you agree that disruptive editors need to be removed from an article for the good of the encyclopedia, or you think they should stay. If you agree, then we have the same view. If you disagree, well, you must consider your position.

IMO reads as a threat that my "position" on this issue will lead to my being sanctioned. Other parsing of If you disagree, well, you must consider your position. is welcomed.

[17] shows AGK's response to my points about being added only after a "Kill them All" resolution as defeated "I have nothing more to say." I was not added until after the "Kill them all" resolution was downed, was added by AGK, and with the only evidence being from AGK. The evidence phase was already closed, and no opportunity for rebuttal was given whatsoever.

[18] Losing your temper won't help us. Question for you: do you think you have not "needlessly inflamed tensions with the other disputants" or "been dismissive of other users' views" during the dispute discussions? shows a clear case of prejudgment in the first place. Especially since the "evidence" shows nothing remotely like what he "knows" to be the "truth."

AGK in the past, when he was the "investigated party" wrote:

I am displeased at being listed as a party to this case. In the event that this request is accepted (a prospect I make no comment on at this point) and that the final decision involves some variation of the usual "All parties are reminded to act like reasonable adults" remedy, I would be annoyed enough to retire from editing. Doubtless many of the other administrators whose involvement in these disputes is confined to attempts to keep editor conduct in line will be similarly annoyed at having been listed as parties to this request. AGK 22:13, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

Yet he lectures me <g>.

AGK is "involved" now. Plain and simple. Both by acts and words.

And I note my agreement with User:KillerChihuahua and many others [19]

:I think no one should have been added after the evidence phase closed, without re-opening the evidence page. I think adding parties after the Workshop was closed is even worse. If you want to close the case, then ban some people individually based on their activities on the "moderated discussion" or the talk page in general or whatever; or reopen the case, or start a new case; I think that would have been a better approach. But adding parties after a case is basically closed except for Arbs is just wrong. Having this "invitation to comment on the talk page of the Proposed decision" does not make up for not having Evidence open and a full case for those listed after the appropriate timeframe. Puppy has spoken, puppy is done. KillerChihuahua 15:11, 5 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

With regard to the case now at hand, I find above the dicta from AGK:

Preparation of a formal list of parties will not be required for this case. In similar previous cases, discussion about who are the parties has distracted the committee from resolving the dispute. As long as all editors whose conduct is being reviewed are notified of the case, and made aware in later stages of the case that sanctions may be proposed against them, it does not ultimately matter whether a given editor was formally named as a "party" or not.

to be troublesome at best, and completely at odds with any rational process at worst. Pays your money and takes your choice.

There are many actors in this dispute, and I have been slightly confused by the overlap between this case and previous ones (e.g. Gun control, Tea Party movement). Therefore, it would be exceedingly helpful if someone could provide an overview of the relevant participants in the Arzel 2 RFC (and in related article disputes). Ideally, such an overview would be grouped by 'faction'; for example:

Republican:

• Editor A
• Editor B

Democrat:

• Editor F
• Editor G

Unidentified:

• Editor X
• Editor Y

I would be happy to provide you with an extension to your word count if you supply such an overview in addition to submitting other evidence. Thank you, AGK [•] 12:23, 27 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Shows an apparent desire to categorize editors and treat them on the basis of what someone asserts to be the truth about them, is violative of privacy, is violative of WP:OUTING and violative of commonsense.

Speaking personally, I do find it useful. However, given your objections, I will do this in my own time and without the parties' assistance. AGK [•] 14:57, 27 April 2014 (UTC)

Is a promise or threat to "out" editors, or, worse yet, to make claims about them not based on objective fact. Which is yet another reason for AGK to recuse here -- prejudice, outing and categorization of editors are all against Wikipedia policy.

And his favourite treatment of policy is shown clearly by

1.A principle such as "Editors are expected to listen and respond to - not ignore - the community's concerns" would apply. However, these paragraphs are of little relevance to the dispute, and I do not think we need to mindlessly regurgitate basic policy in this way. AGK [•] 19:46, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

Yeppers - an arbitrator saying use of policy is "regurgitation" where it interferes with his positions :(.

[20] shows my iterated position:

What is important is that trying to categorize anyone politically on the basis of properly conducted discussions on appropriate noticeboards does not work, never has worked, and never will work. This particular page is decidedly ill-suited for re-arguing decisions long since made. Cheers. Collect (talk) 20:52, 7 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

On which position Wikipedia shall stand or fall.

As a result of likely prejudice and involvement by an arbitrator, who may have already "poisoned the well", I decline to add any further evidence of any type whatsoever, and decline to participate in the workshop, and decline to "out" myself or anyone in any way or participate in such any such exercise. If AGK has indeed categorized or outed any editors whatsoever, even in internal discussions, this proceeding is nugatory in my honest opinion.

Proverbially, a wise man will not drink from a poisoned well. Collect (talk) 11:40, 12 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

• Hi Collect,

  I've removed a large section of text at Wikipedia_talk:Arbitration/Requests/Case/American_politics/Evidence#Hail_and_Farewell, for reasons I've laid out there. I don't plan to touch the copy above, although I can't guarantee others' actions. Let me know here if you have any questions; I've watchlisted this page. --Floquenbeam (talk) 17:34, 12 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Um -- it looks far more like "the well is indeed poisoned, but we do not want anyone pointing it out. Collect (talk) 17:46, 12 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: I consider the following to be more than a tad "dismissive" of any editor:

I don't know how even to reply to a comment that plumbs such depths of absurdity. AGK [•] 20:48, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

I'm not an arb, but I read it. It sure doesn't contribute to making the atmosphere here less toxic, or building an encyclopedia, or moving this case to a meaningful conclusion. Actually, it leaves me with the impression that you may be trying to poison the well, and at the very least, it's disruptive. Perhaps if you would leave out the Latin, sarcasm, condescension, wikilawyering, and passive aggressive tone, the actual substance of your complaint would be taken more seriously.- MrX 18:49, 12 May 2014 (UTC)

Seems even less gracious than most, I suggest. Expect similar gracelessness from others. Collect (talk) 20:49, 12 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Actually I thought about sending you a similar suggestion. I think you have a strong argument that AGK should recuse, but you focus too much on the moral outrage, and less and just simply stating the facts. Doing so makes it easy for people to ignore you, which does you a great disservice. This is a pattern I saw with several of the participants in the GC case unfortunately. I'm not saying you don't have a right to the moral outrage - perhaps you do, there are some strong indicators for shenanigans in the ARbCom taking politically motivated actions - but when the body you are appealing to, is also the body you are accusing, thats a losers game. Gotta make it black and white so there is no room for wiggling out of what the evidence shows. Gaijin42 (talk) 21:00, 12 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The evidence is damn clear -- and was removed from the arbitration page as though it were an inconvenient truth. Which I suppose it is. Expect me back to ask questions at ArbCom Election time. Lo alecha hamlacha ligmor. Collect (talk) 21:10, 12 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I wasn't trying to be gracious when I made that comment, but I was trying to be gracious when I retracted it. Do you really think it's a good idea to then dredge it up, and if so, for what purpose?- MrX 21:17, 12 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Since the entirety of the evidence I provided about AGK was summarily deleted, I rather thought it rational to show how others involved in the issue reacted. If I misquoted your post, I will gladly redact it. As it is, I suspect you did not spontaneously think of removing it -- I wager that you got a post "suggesting removal" from an anonymous arb, right? Cheers. Collect (talk) 21:23, 12 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Collect, my pinging you via WP:Echo likely reached you, and so I certainly don't mean to push, but will you weigh in on this matter when you get a good chance to do so? As shown in that discussion, I think that some WP:Reliable sources are being inappropriately discriminated against, similar to how People magazine was being inappropriately discriminated against (mainly by a lone editor), and that editors failing to distinguish between tabloid (newspaper format) and tabloid journalism is clearly still a problem for Wikipedia. Your take on appropriate sources for WP:BLPs often holds a lot of weight with the Wikipedia community; so I think your weighing in on this discussion will be beneficial. It may spare us and other editors from having to take this matter to the WP:Reliable sources noticeboard, similar to the big People magazine WP:RfC discussion that was had there. And you know that I often appreciate what you have to state on such sourcing matters, whether I agree or disagree. Flyer22 (talk) 00:52, 14 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Alas -- my opinion holds no weight with an arb it seemingly appears, if you read the material above. Best wishes. Collect (talk) 01:37, 14 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, I see that you're upset. A lot of Wikipedians do listen to and agree with what you have to state about WP:BLPs; they don't always, of course. I'll go ahead and take the aforementioned matter to the WP:Reliable sources noticeboard; I hope you weigh in on it there. Flyer22 (talk) 01:51, 14 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I do not think a reasonable basis for recusal is created by his efforts, here and in the earlier case, to portray me as corrupt. Actual corrupt actions or an undisclosed interest would be required for his portrayal to constitute a legitimate request for recusal: the proper formula is "my actions + his criticism = recusal". Collect is instead proposing "his criticism demands my recusal", a formula which if indulged would undermine the entire system of arbitration by allowing any one user to eliminate a perceivably-unsympathetic arbitrator through systematic and unfair campaigns. is AGK's defence on this.[21]

I make no comment here, but any editor is free to add concrete evidence that I called AGK "corrupt."

Any editor who feels that recusal by an Arb requires that the Arb be "corrupt" is also free to opine. As, of course, are those who demur with AGK's stated position. Thanks to all - I think my opinion is clear above. Collect (talk) 12:05, 14 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

So if the article on the case is notable (given the huge legal precedent it sets in Europe it certainly is) and contains within it the information google have been instructed to remove links to, wouldnt that mean google would also have to remove links to the article (which given how high wikipedia comes in search results will almost be the top entry if anyone searches in future) on the case that explains why they have to remove links? I am heavily in favour of an individuals right to privacy, but I cant see this ending well for anyone (wikipedia included) if Google has to start removing links to wikipedia articles. Only in death does duty end (talk) 21:20, 16 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

AFAICT, that is precisely the case -- almost as if someone wished a test case to be set up on Wikipedia before the ink on the decision is dry. I wonder how the WMF feels about such a deliberate edit? Collect (talk) 21:38, 16 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Well at this point the logical solution is to remove the info so the article doesnt get blacklisted.... Waiiiiiittttt a minute!

More seriously, if the ruling sticks, this might actually benefit (in the long run) the BLP area, because it will mean that non-notable/barely notable people will get more protection than they currently do. Only in death does duty end (talk) 21:42, 16 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

If you read this talk page, you will note my "unusual position" at the moment. At the moment, there are a substantial number of BLPs on which editors are running riot, adding "allegations" and innuendo galore because no one is saying "no". Collect (talk) 21:47, 16 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hey Collect, I understand it's a mass of stuff, and not all of it equally convincing, esp. not to others who are less acquainted with the matter. And it's hard to nail down a simple "unusual" phrase or common misspelling. But compare this edit with this one, for instance: same style of referencing. Thanks, Drmies (talk) 18:33, 22 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Winnow it down -- really the most convincing material will have to be found in overlap of articles and showing a connection between their edits. And remember we need to look at whether a usage is common on Wikipedia overall -- which is why the "nevermind" bit is weak. Right now it is like offering a diner a bowl of beef stew, but where the beef is widely dispersed in a massive amount of vegetables. Cheers. Collect (talk) 21:11, 22 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Vegetables are healthy. I'm expecting readers to take their time and take it seriously. We're talking about prolific article creators with tons of edits, and we're talking about someone who went through some trouble to hide their tracks. I hatted one section, but gave you a new (short one): overlap between Candle and other (known and blocked) CoM socks. Know what all of them have in common? My talk page, haha. Drmies (talk) 22:45, 22 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Broccoli will kill any article <g>. The more you have people read, the less they will actually scrutinize it (for good or ill). In my former life, the best evidence was "weird spelling" of common words - it gave very strong evidence in only a few posts. Words like, for example, "provacator" or the like will result in only a very few hits, and the intersection is a strong piece of evidence. I also find that "intersecting edits on the same user talk pages" has a very low chance of randomly occurring - if two editors intersect on more than about twenty user talk pages (excluding Jimbo and other high traffic pages etc.), they likely have some non-random connections. I find it substantially more compelling from a statistical standpoint than intersections on broad groups of articles. Collect (talk) 23:07, 22 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know. Edits to talk pages for admins are typically prompted by outside occurrences; in this case deletions, for instance. Then again, I think they have go-to editors for moving things from sandboxes. I'll see. You know this is an enormous timesink... Anyway, I did find out that both Candle and CoM have edited User:Jimbo Wales, which I thought was kind of odd. Drmies (talk) 01:41, 23 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

That particular user page is a sort of playground for some, I think. Often, though, edits to talk pages are made to make an admin think that a particular position is widely held - most of those admins are not that active on the front lines of enforcing editing policies (BLP etc.) so having several "different editors" post substantially the same position does affect them. Collect (talk) 02:02, 23 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Quoting from the top of your talk page: "Articles which make "allegations" make bad encyclopedia articles, especially when any sort of POV can be attached thereto." How fascinating, then, to see you adding "allegations" to a BLP (noting the edit summary, naturally). BLP defender my ass… Nomoskedasticity (talk) 17:06, 24 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

And note that I used exactly what the reliable sources stated, that no allegations of crimes are involved, and that Piketty admits he altered numbers. And I included his rebuttal as to the reason for changing figures.. Sorry Charlie - your ad hom attempt here fails quite miserably. As for your snide "BLP defender my ass" -- I think your own POV is showing -- I have no personal opinion whatsoever about Piketty, and this happened to get major news coverage. Cheers. Collect (talk) 20:32, 24 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Let's keep this hair-splitting in mind the next time someone gets lectured about Collect's personal extended version of BLP policy. — goethean 21:49, 24 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Nice try at jumping in -- this is Beckettian in a way -- the statements that Piketty used incorrect figures are admitted by Piketty at this point - he stated he needed to alter some to smooth out curves. Now both of you are cordially invited not to post here without damn good cause. Cheers. Collect (talk) 22:05, 24 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

But what about Harvard University Press? Piketty’s publisher there, Ian Malcolm, is interviewed here[22]. From the sounds of it, he just reprinted the French version without applying the checks and balances that you’d hope would be applied to a Harvard economics book. He says how much money Piketty has made his company, and concluded by saying: “As long as there is bullshit and inequality, we won’t go out of business.” [23]

The allegation that another editor is stalking your edits, when he is simply replying at a talk page which he has watchlisted, is a personal attack. Either refrain from the allegation, or open a user conduct Request for Comments. Robert McClenon (talk) 16:18, 8 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Nomo has been fairly blatant in this - starting yet another dramaboard section is not exactly what I desire - if you wish to see how "well" they work. If you desire, send me an email and I will show you what the EIR shows, or, better yet, you examine that tool. I also suggest you look at the nature of his posts in response to my posts in general. Cheers. Collect (talk) 17:33, 8 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

[24], [25], [26], [27] (note outcome of that accusation) etc. Collect (talk) 17:42, 8 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Please don't edit other peoples' talk page posts, as you did here. I know that you know this behavior violates the talk page guidelines, and I know you know better. I'm not sure whether you're just trying to be difficult at this point, but in any case, please stop. MastCell ^Talk 00:48, 14 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Bullshit. You complained that "Santorum opposes euthanasia'" was unreferenced

I simply pointed out that the "Santorum is strongly against euthanasia" is precisely and exactly just as unreferenced. If one needs a "citation needed" than so does the other, and any other position is pure unadulterated manure. Cheers -- and stay the hell off this page. Collect (talk) 01:03, 14 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hi there. Just a quick note explaining why I reverted your changes to the infobox on the Charlie Rangel article. If a congressman has served terms for different districts, we don't try and squash them all together into one continuous term on the infobox. Instead, they're split up. I get that one of your other reasons was that it's awkward to put a predecessor down for the NY-13, since the 13th is now very different to what it was, but that's how it's always been done, here on Wikipedia and elsewhere. Predecessors and successors are based on the district, regardless of how much it has changed. If you think the current thinking on this is wrong, I suggest you seek out a wider consensus for change, as this has been the standard for those kind of infoboxes for many years now, and just trying to make a change on one article isn't going to be the way forward. Hope this clarifies things. Redverton (talk) 21:52, 20 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

User:Redverton - Read Template_talk:Infobox_officeholder please - the support there is quite substantial. Cheers. I think you well ought to revert your changes. Collect (talk) 22:04, 20 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for highlighting this - I wasn't aware of this change in consensus. I agree that the predecessor bit ought to be removed after all. However, unless I'm reading this wrong, where was the agreement to then try and squash multiple terms together into one? Rangel hasn't been serving the 13th since 1971, so why state so? Plus, attempting to describe the composition of NY-13 in the infobox itself just makes it look messy. Redverton (talk) 22:10, 20 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

On the weird edits about Rangel et al -- I ain't guilty <g>. The fact is that Congress itself does not use numbers for its members, it is just a convenience for running elections in the first place. That some folks seem to be obsessed with saying Rangel has multiple predecessors and successor shows the problem fairly clearly, I think. The idea is to show the district numbers and use "redistricted" to indicate that "predecessor" or "successor" is not rationally applicable to the person. Thanks. Collect (talk) 22:20, 20 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

In that case, I think we have reached an understanding. Before seeing your reply here, I did indeed add 'Redistricting' instead. Thanks again for letting me know about this change in consensus. Redverton (talk) 22:29, 20 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

You are absolutely welcome! Thanks. Collect (talk) 23:24, 20 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Goodness me, I just noticed the mini-war that's happened on the article since I left. You would have thought that guy would have taken a moment to look at your talk page - if he was so interested in arguing with you - and could easily have seen how settled this issue is. The nerve of some editors continues to astound me. Glad it looks like it's settled now. Redverton (talk) 01:31, 25 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Merci. That editor accused me of following them to the Rangel page to boot <g>. Thanks for dropping in. Collect (talk) 01:41, 25 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

This is news to me. Sorry, but if you leave the article as is, people are going to think he jumped on his own. People don't know what you know.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 20:41, 27 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

And something I just realized. All these years I didn't know he might have been attached to someone. Now I see the problem. Or maybe I don't.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 20:46, 27 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The law requires people in wheelchairs to have assistance -- that is not a "notable fact" for a BLP. I believe we already point out that he is not able to walk unassisted. Collect (talk) 21:08, 27 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't know how skydiving worked, though.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 21:42, 27 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Check the talk page. There is consensus to remove it. Viriditas (talk) 11:43, 1 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Your edit summary did not conform to Wikipedia policy. Cheers. Collect (talk) 13:10, 1 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I fail to see what any edit summary has to do with the consensus on the talk page. Is there a reason you are not currently participating in the discussion that found consensus to remove the text you added back? I hope to see you there soon. Viriditas (talk) 13:12, 1 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Is there a reason for you to engage in argumentation here when it is clear that there was no such consensus to delete opinions properly cited as opinions from any such article? I hope to see you in the distant future with such argumentation sans basis. Collect (talk) 13:31, 1 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Amazing. You are engaging in the same behavior that led to the current arbitration case, Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/American politics. When the consensus was pointed out to you on the talk page, a SPA showed up at that very moment to agree with you, an account recently created to do nothing but edit war on this article. Furthermore, NPOV, BLP, and other policies have been violated. When the aforementioned case closes, I'll make sure the article is tagged under discretionary sanctions and that your little friend is blocked. Have a nice day. Viriditas (talk) 21:03, 1 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Amazing. Chip said he had no objection to the edit. Are you asserting Chip is irrelevant here? Have a nice day. Collect (talk) 21:27, 1 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

BTW, my "little friend" is about 6" taller than your "little friend" I suspect. Cheers. Collect (talk) 21:45, 1 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Cool essay. I'm curious, what's the bad ArbCom decision that you're referring to in the note atop your user page? ... I just noticed more detail at the top of this page. Something to do with "discretionary sanctions", and the evidence (or lack thereof, or lack of "discussability" thereof) needed to implement them, I'd guess. --Middle 8 (leave me alone • talk to me • COI?) 23:05, 4 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The committee in its infinite wisdom decided I was being "uncivil" for telling a person that his hypothetical statement to me was "bosh and twaddle" which aroused great umbrage at the committee, which decided that such incivility called f9r a six month topic ban from the Tea Party Movement, where my biggest editorial effort had been to make the article actually readable <g>. (One editor had actually proposed a lengthy section with a readability index under zero!) Yet editors who say "fuck off!" are clearly paragons of civility. The real issue, frankly, was that I opposed a preliminary decision to ban a slew of editors sans any evidence about them, adding them after the case had already been closed and refusing them the courtesy of demurral. The question is whether "cutting the Gordian knot" by ignoring process is a proper concept for an "arbitration committee" which I find to be an abhorrent "Kill them all, the Lord will know his own" type of decision at best, and an easily abused system at worst. Cheers. Collect (talk) 23:33, 4 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Don't really know anyone else who is active in American project as much as you are. Please have a view here . Thanks OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 10:27, 10 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

CU can not show much - the data is guaranteed stale. More to the point - if no one has made any SPI charges on the articles most edited by the editor, the odds are high that the editor has actually abided by the ban. 4 years is a very long time in Internet space - and a 1RR restriction for the first six months is quite likely more than sufficient.

I had no idea you were an expert on sockpuppetry and CU.  :) Viriditas (talk) 23:16, 13 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I have filed a few SPI reports (with about 85% positive results), and thus have seen what the CUs routinely write there. I worked for a major ISP for a very long time and knew what the "state of the art" at the time was for identifying specific users as required under my contract at the time, and I have also been a volunteer on a website where they routinely block people who try to fool the system into thinking they are two separate people. Was there an actual reason for your post here, by the way? Collect (talk) 00:48, 14 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Is a reason needed to give you a compliment? Just a random act of kindness and senseless act of beauty.  :). Which brings me to another topic altogether. IIRC, you have some familiarity with Southern California politics and culture, yes? If so, I have a question to ask you about an article. Viriditas (talk) 02:11, 14 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I have no such familiarity with Southern California politics and "culture", alas. Collect (talk) 11:56, 14 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

My apologies. In any case, the same question applies to other parts of the country. BTW, do you do GA reviews? Let me know if you do, I've got one that could use your feedback. Viriditas (talk) 05:28, 15 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I only have 2 GAs under my belt - what I find interesting is that the oldest GAs tend to be written quite floridly, while coming from a science background I tend to favour terse and clear language. If you check up on readability [28] you will find many such articles to be nicely unreadable <g>. That said, I would be honoured to give feedback as much as I can. Which article would you like fresh eyes (albeit one with a cataract - argh!) to look at? Collect (talk) 11:36, 15 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I have a GA nomination on Paul Conrad awaiting a reviewer. If you're interested, you can follow the link on the talk page header to start a new review. I had you mind as a reviewer because I think you could provide some solid feedback on the topic. If you choose not to review the article, that's OK too, so please don't feel like you have to do it. I'm curious, what are you doing about your cataract? Have you found any relief? Viriditas (talk) 00:23, 16 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I am inviting you to leave me some feedback, 18 months after you opposed my RfA. Do you still believe I am not fit to be an admin? Do you believe I have been able to improve past the concerns you have brought up? Do not be afraid of being too harsh, I am specifically welcoming criticism as I believe it is the best way to improve and I am always looking to learn from my mistakes. I am particularly looking for feedback as to whether you have objections to myself lifting the self-imposed 1RR restriction I had agreed to towards the end of my RfA. If you don't have time to comment, don't fret it either, this is nothing I'll lose sleep over. :) ☺ · Salvidrim! · ✉ 19:48, 20 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

It is a long time ago (2011) that the Ratel/TickleMeister/Jabbsworth-case was in full focus. Today, I came across some edits on Philip Nitschke, which set of the alarm bells. There were several edits made by a user "Jabba the Hot". I can't really pinpoint it, but the tone of his edits is what worries me. And gave me the idea of a relation with Ratel. Older edits on Nitschke and on YourLastRight.com fuel the worries.

Perhaps I am wrong, so I like your opinion. The Banner talk 10:46, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

OTOH you may not be wrong -- one problem is that Ratel's data is "old" meaning you need to show similar edits on similar topics violating those precepts which Ratel generally violated -- that is - is the added material specifically weakly sourced scurrilous material about living persons? - which was his forte. Also look at article intersections with Ratel etc. using [29]. Cheers -- I am certain Ratel is still socking somewhere on WP for sure. Collect (talk) 20:07, 24 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

"'editors who ignore talk page discussions yet continue to edit in or revert disputed material may be guilty of disruptive editing and incur sanctions' ... Seems clear. I urge you to self-revert as otherwise you may be viewed as engaging in a deliberate edit war. Cheers."

Yes, it is perfectly clear. There was a consensus and you continue to ignore it and the talk page discussion and edit as you want to. So congratulations, you've bullied an editor away from editing a Wikipedia article with your insulting tone and threats. I do not know or care anything about Donald Trump or the Tea Party but merely work to make the entire encyclopedia better. What I am not going to do is engage in edit wars with editors who appear to be experienced and yet are either ignorant of Wikipedia policy concerning consensus or choose to ignore it in order to get their way with articles. Do with the article as you will, I want nothing to do with you or your approach to dealing with Wikipedia and your fellow editors. SQGibbon (talk) 22:15, 27 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Actually there was no consensus and two editors agreeing is rarely considered any sort of consensus. Your personal attacks,moreover, are contrary to Wikipedia policy, and I suggest you redact them as being violative of the basic tenets of Wikipedia. If you continue to use personal attacks instead of following policy, you are likely to find very tough sledding on the project. Cheers. Collect (talk) 23:36, 27 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Consensus was achieved. The two editors still involved in the discussion reached a consensus based on Wikipedia policy and guidelines. That other people added to the discussion weeks afterward does not negate the fact that a consensus was achieved. If there are only two editors discussing an edit then any agreement they reach that is within the policies and guidelines of Wikipedia is always considered a consensus. I've asked you once before to point out where this is contradicted in any Wikipedia policy or guideline. It isn't.

There is not a single personal attack coming from me. You used an insulting tone and threatened me so I bowed out of the discussion because I no longer wish to be subject to your bullying efforts in an article I care absolutely nothing about. These are facts. You edit warred against consensus, were insulting, and threatened me. Therefore there is absolutely nothing for me to redact. You continually telling me to redact comments and/or edits however is of concern and is part of the exact same pattern of discourse you've used throughout this incident. Since I have not once personally attacked you, your comment at the end was yet another snide comment coming from you directed at me. SQGibbon (talk) 00:11, 28 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Your personal attacks are noted above by anyone who reads your posts. That you do not see them is not my problem. I regret that you seem to think the tenor of your posts is proper here or on any page on Wikipedia. I note that there was no formal consensus of any type and that your insistence on "my way or the highway" is not conducive to collegial editing. Cheers. Please refrain from any further posts on this user talk page. Collect (talk) 00:15, 28 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hi there,

I noticed that after I undid potential vandalism that you reversed my edit. I am hoping you can explain why.

This is the original paragraph I wrote.

"The second controversial legislation was the Financial Measures Act, which eliminated the Graduate Retention Rebate - a tax rebate given to graduates who stayed in the province to work. The government said the program was not working and that student groups wanted it cut. But student advocates said they had asked the Liberal to redirect the funds into student assistance, which did not happen, and graduates said the program helped them financially."

The information was sourced, and told both sides of the story.

Now, you have deleted the last line, agreeing with the editor who deleted numerous phrases that offered the counterpoint. CameronCamera (talk) 01:43, 28 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

See WP:WTA. The "but" sentence appears to have Wikipedia's voice state that the prior claim is wrong. Argumentation using Wikipedia's voice is not acceptable. The most you might add if properly sourced would be "some students disagreed with the changes". Claims or inferences that one person can change or alter what appears to be law is simply grandstanding at that point and can not be stated in Wikipedia's voice. And saying people who got money were happy that got money is rather a Homer Simpson fact <g>. Collect (talk) 01:58, 28 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Would you agree with this alternative?

"The second controversial legislation was the Financial Measures Act, which eliminated the Graduate Retention Rebate - a tax rebate given to graduates who stayed in the province to work." CameronCamera (talk) 02:05, 28 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Closer - but one might add "with the stated reason being that it was not successful at retaining graduates in the province" without implying this was correct or incorrect. Collect (talk) 02:23, 28 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Greetings! You have been randomly selected to receive an invitation to participate in the request for comment on Talk:Disappearance of Madeleine McCann. Should you wish to respond to the invitation, your contribution to this discussion will be very much appreciated! If in doubt, please see suggestions for responding. If you do not wish to receive these types of notices, please remove your name from Wikipedia:Feedback request service. — Legobot (talk) 00:00, 2 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, WP:The Wikipedia Library has record of you being approved for access to JSTOR through the TWL partnership described at WP:JSTOR . You should have recieved a Wikipedia email User:The Interior sent several weeks ago with instructions for access, including a link to a form collecting information relevant to that access. Please find that email, and follow those instructions. If you were not approved, did not recieve the email, or are having some other concern or question, please respond to this message at Wikipedia talk:JSTOR/Approved. Thanks much, Sadads (talk) 21:10, 5 August 2014 (UTC) Note: You are recieving this message from an semi-automatically generated list. If you think you were incorrectly contacted, make sure to note that at Wikipedia talk:JSTOR/Approved.[reply]

Hello, WP:The Wikipedia Library has record of you being approved for access to Oxford University Press's humanities materials through the TWL partnership described at WP:OUP . You should have recieved a Wikipedia email from User:Nikkimaria several weeks ago with instructions for access, including a link to a form collecting information relevant to that access. Please find that email, and follow those instructions. If you were not approved, did not recieve the email, or are having some other concern or question, please respond to this message at Wikipedia talk:OUP/Approved. Thanks much, Sadads (talk) 22:10, 5 August 2014 (UTC) Note: You are receiving this message from an semi-automatically generated list. If you think you were incorrectly contacted, make sure to note that at Wikipedia talk:OUP/Approved.[reply]

Collect can you collapse your comment at AE? Apparently, the Admins are reading your comment as mine. This is causing problems for me. I'd appreciate it, thanks. SW3 5DL (talk) 14:48, 6 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Collect, I appreciate you making that statement at the top, but unfortunately that is probably not going to be effective. You've written so much, and especially the last paragraphs seem to be what is getting latched onto. Your comment completely obliterates mine. I realized this was happening last night when Ed Johnston commented. I quickly contacted him on his talk page. Please collapse your comment, especially as this is not your case, you're not the one at risk here. Thanks. SW3 5DL (talk) 18:02, 6 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Everyone knows those IMDB links are not ideal (see the talk page there), you are invited to add better sourcing to improve the article. It is not an article I'd prefer editing either, but these drive-by "improvements" are ridiculous. So turn on your Norton Antivirus and try to reference just two of them, it would be a big help. Thanks.--Milowent • ^hasspoken 14:50, 7 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Not only are they "not ideal", they do not meet WP:RS in the first place. I removed nothing but the invalid refs. If you wish to demur, the discussion is at WP:RS/N. Collect (talk) 14:56, 7 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

• I prefer to actually work on articles, but I'll chime in. My point is that if you want to improve the article, stop screwing around on talk pages, and improve it. The AFD showed this 10 year old article is not going to be deleted.--Milowent • ^hasspoken 15:05, 7 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Huh? Removing improper refs is improving the article. You may note that I do have a significant number of article edits, although I only have had two "good articles" at this point. As for your comment about "screwing around on talk pages" I suggest you read WP:AGF and WP:NPA. Cheers. Collect (talk) 15:25, 7 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Please stop. You are deleting the category from articles on grounds that it is "unsourced" -- but you are doing it so quickly that it's obvious you aren't actually checking. This is disruptive & tendentious editing. Nomoskedasticity (talk) 16:33, 10 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

If a BLP has no source whatsoever for labeling a person as associated with the Tea Party movement thenWP:BLP requires its removal. Cheers. Collect (talk) 16:36, 10 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

BLP doesn't require its removal, but you do have that option. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 16:40, 10 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps the problem is that not a single mention of them being "associated with" the Tea Party was in the BLPs in the first place other than the category would be a clue? Wikipedia does not provide for refs for categories where no ref of any kind within the article remotely supports the categorization in the first place. Collect (talk) 16:46, 10 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

You reverted my edit saying that Nigel Farage lives in Single Street saying it represented a BLP violation. You perhaps missed my edit summary that made it clear that Single Street is a hamlet. It's quite common in Kent to find villages named after "Streets" - they're not streets in the common sense, in Kent it refers to Roman roads. See eg Collier Street, Oad Street, Hamstreet, Reading Street etc etc. I think there is value in being precise about Farage's location partly because there's a widespread meme that he comes from Herne rather than Downe thanks to a previous Wiki edit, but even now I've seen him described as Downe, Westerham (Single Street's postal address) and Single Street. My edit made it explicit, and hopefully explained why people might see other versions. Le Deluge (talk) 15:59, 11 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

We do not generally give specific personal addresses of living persons except where an "official residence" is stated. Collect (talk) 19:43, 11 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Elections is over and you keep deleting the corrections on the total amount spent by the candidate and the PAC and the fact that Babin the nominee.

us-campaign-committees.findthebest.com/l/37259/Texans-For-A-Conservative-Majority

go.bloomberg.com/political-capital/2014-01-09/texas-pro-cornyn-pac-spends-744000-attacking-stockman/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 36district (talk • contribs) 23:42, 15 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

You must read WP:BLP, WP:RS and WP:NPOV. Wikipedia's voice can not be used to make asides about persons which are clearly opinion. Cheers. Collect (talk) 12:16, 16 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I was referring to the "Texas Democrat Party"...--v/r - TP 23:05, 22 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Which is the "Democratic Party" but when referring to Democrats as a group - the proper noun is "Democrats" as "democrats" does not refer to a party affiliation. Cheers. Collect (talk) 00:02, 23 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Where is the evidence of your assertion? I made hundreds of edits over past days on that article, but I did not 5RR. - Cwobeel (talk) 20:00, 25 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Your edits at [30], [31] etc. may qualify as reverts -- I only stated that two should be warned, and the other three would not absolutely be considered reverts even though they were in the same sections as where other editors worked. I personally think making "hundreds of edits" in a few days usually indicates that a cup of tea is quite in order. Collect (talk) 20:12, 25 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for catching that. I didn't realize those edits were carried by me.

I was just deleting the refs and there was an edit conflict when I submitted. I should have been more attentitve.

- A Canadian Toker (talk) 14:03, 27 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

No problem:) Collect (talk) 14:06, 27 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I like your edits to M Brown, keeping the Lede to the point. --Kevin Murray (talk) 18:30, 27 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. My belief is that readable articles are better than unreadable ones, short articles are more likely to get read than longer ones, and articles which present "the truth" generally don't. Collect (talk) 18:33, 27 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

So sorry. I did not mean to say anything about socks. Quoted the wrong essay :( - Cwobeel (talk) 04:04, 28 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

It really pays to read what you write -- and you took a while to note my demurral, but thanks for this apology. Collect (talk) 11:39, 28 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

As an editor who has recently edited Joni Ernst, you are invited to comment on this RFC. Your participation will be appreciated. - Cwobeel (talk) 17:51, 28 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

You were right, I was reading too fast and was wrong. Sorry. Paul, in Saudi (talk) 13:39, 9 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

No problem - I tend to read the sources pretty thoroughly nowadays. <g>. Collect (talk) 13:45, 9 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Did you mean to oppose the proposed mutual interaction ban between Carol and Sitush? I understand your oppose to a one-way interaction ban, but your oppose on the mutual interaction ban does not seem clear.--The Devil's Advocate _{tlk. cntrb.} 16:41, 23 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I do not like "interaction bans" as a rule - and would suggest a specific time limit on any such ban would be wise - both editors have been around a bit, and keeping away from each other for a month or two makes far more sense as an informal "suggestion" than any formal Iban makes. Collect (talk) 19:09, 23 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:93.173.134.213

I've given him a caution (Level 2), and seeming as you were reverting his other unconstructive edits, I thought I might notify you.

Cheers

Luxure (talk) 02:08, 24 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Merci. Collect (talk) 11:06, 24 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Collect, it wasn't considered "ugly" by some. Weasel words! It was widely considered incredibly ugly, like, amazingly ugly. Ugliest building in the city. A carbuncle, which "had grown to symbolize all that was ugly". Honorable mention on the list of the 50 ugliest buildings in the city. The ugliest building in the country. Again, a front runner for "ugliest building in the country". One notably ugly building is "not as ugly as the Maupoleum". Ugliest building in the country. Also ugliest building in the country. Ugliest building in the Netherlands. One of the most horrible buildings one could imagine. Prominent place on the list of ugliest buildings in Amsterdam. There's plenty of sourcing in the article for it (and elsewhere), but I'm tired of duking this out with you. Drmies (talk) 18:55, 24 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

And again -- we use the full phrase in the body of the article where it belongs, but to be in the lead it pretty much has to be "many sources" for such a strong comment. BTW, I have, indeed, seen uglier buildings <g>. Collect (talk) 19:08, 24 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I got many sources. And that building of yours--pff, it's got nothing on the Maupoleum in terms of ugliness. I can still see it, looming over you all grey and dead when you're cycling by. And for the sake of contrast, it was across the street from the Rembrandt House Museum. Drmies (talk) 00:01, 25 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Oh? I rather suspect the one I gave is quite ugly <g>. And one of your sources only made it in the top fifty in a city -- which is not that impressive, AFAICT. Collect (talk) 00:03, 25 September 2014 (UTC) Collect (talk) 00:03, 25 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Nonono, not at all. Your building, well, first of all I need to see some sourcing. Second, I think it looks kinda funny, kinda whimsical, in that style that was once fashionable (in the 70s and 80s). Your building has a sense of humor, which makes a lot of ugly reasonably pretty--mine is like a tomb. And top 50? Honourable mention--spelled in British English, so it has to be valid. Don't get into an ugly pissing contest with me, Collect, because you can't win this one. Drmies (talk) 14:24, 25 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

OK (it is far more recent than that <g>) -- how about

for an example of the "1960s concrete fortress" architecture in the same flavour as the "Maupoleum"? Collect (talk) 14:58, 25 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hello Collect. I just wanted to thank you for your revision of my edit to Gary Oldman. Could you explain what you find unacceptable about my edit summary? Also could you please explain any issues you have with the content of the edit, if any. If your issue was with the summary rather than the content I would like your blessing to restore the clarification of the ADL's reaction. Thanks again. Hebrew Warrior (talk) 13:32, 27 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

We use what reliable secondary sources state. We do not use our personal opinions - and your clear opinion in your edit summary that Oldman is a "disgusting antisemite" does not qualify as a NPOV claim. Cheers. Collect (talk) 13:49, 27 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. I was previously unaware that the NPOV policy applied to things like edit summaries and talk pages. This is a revelation to me. Could you please link me to the section of the relevant policies which state that edit summaries must be NPOV, so that I might learn more about this rule?

Anyway, it is now clear to me that your issue was with the summary rather than with the contents, so I consider you as having given your blessing to revert to my previous edit. Thank you.

As for the actual content of the change, which consisted of mentioning the ADL "saying that Oldman was reiterating the antisemitic canard that Jews control Hollywood", that was a paraphrase of the statement in the cited article saying "Foxman said that Oldman’s decision to mention the impact that Jewish artists and business people have had on the film industry in terms of their religious affiliation perpetrates the deleterious stereotype that they control the media business." So you will see that this uses a "reliable secondary source," so there is no problem there as per your comment.

Personally I think that individuals who believe in the antisemitic conspiracy theory that Jews run Hollywood are disgusting antisemites and are justly shut out of the film industry, but I will keep such opinions to myself in order to ensure that edit summaries and talk pages remain NPOV as policy dictates. Thanks again. Hebrew Warrior (talk) 14:07, 27 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Collect. Thanks for your recent reversion. In the edit summary you wrote "Foxman quote is used - if you wish to add what he "meant", then you need to remove his quote which does not say what your interpolation states". This seems like a false dilemma to me. It seems that we would be perfectly capable of both paraphrasing a source as well as directly quoting from a source. Could you please point me to the relevant policy stating that it is forbidden to do both? Also could you please point out the exact ways "saying that Oldman was reiterating the antisemitic canard that Jews control Hollywood" fails to paraphrase "Foxman said that Oldman’s decision to mention the impact that Jewish artists and business people have had on the film industry in terms of their religious affiliation perpetrates the deleterious stereotype that they control the media business." How would you better phrase it? Thanks again. Hebrew Warrior (talk) 14:32, 27 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

No it is not a "false dilemma." We can include reaction from a person - but unless it achieved widespread coverage, using four lines for a single reaction is UNDUE. Now we can either use what the person is quoted as saying, or we can use what a secondary reliable source says the person meant, but using both may well violate WP:BLP. Please read the prior disucussions on the BLP talk page to see what has been said in the past. Collect (talk) 14:42, 27 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I understand more of your reasoning with each exchange. It is a joy to have such fresh insights as this conversation develops. Please have patience with me as I am unaware of many of the policies of this site. Could you please be more specific in your reference to the BLP talk page? There are 38 pages of archives and I have no idea where to begin looking. If length of the passage is such an issue, then it is my opinion that we should summarize the gist of the source rather than merely present a quote that is not representative of the whole. The source is titled "ADL Head Says Gary Oldman’s Apology Reinforces Anti-Semitism" so we should focus on the ways the ADL says his apology reinforces antisemitism, which I think is covered well by the paraphrase "saying that Oldman was reiterating the antisemitic canard that Jews control Hollywood." I think if we replace the quote with this paraphrase then we will have a nice, short summary that should address your concern about length. Please let me know what you think. Thanks. Hebrew Warrior (talk) 00:27, 28 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

One significant problem is that the ADL did not call Oldman an anti-Semite, and the term "anti-Semite" is sufficiently negative that WP:BLP pretty much says you would need strong reliable secondary sources making such a contentious claim. Second, the archives for the talk page include discussions about how to handle the incident in the article, and, absent an RfC for a new consensus, we pretty much continue with what we already have. Third is the issue of "weight" attached to (in this case) remarks from a single person regarding the incident. Generally, comments from a single person are not given extensive coverage in a BLP in any event. I think this covers some of the main issues inherent in your desired edit. Cheers. Collect (talk) 00:53, 28 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

As this conversation goes on, your reasoning is like a beautiful flower that opens up in the sunlight. Firstly, the line I added to the article in no way stated that Gary Oldman was an antisemite, only that the ADL said that he said something antisemitic (which they did, which is a fact). Secondly, I'd be perfectly happy with a RfC now that you mention it. Thirdly, you'll notice that the paraphrase I want in the article is actually shorter than the direct quotation currently used, so weight shouldn't be an issue. I think this resolves the concerns you've voiced and I'm eager to hear any others. Hebrew Warrior (talk) 07:50, 1 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Just recall that we ought rely on what secondary sources state, and not make any contentious claims about living people which are not strongly supported by them. Thanks. Collect (talk) 11:38, 1 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The second AFD for Belle Knox has been overturned and relisted. As you commented on the original AFD, you may wish to comment on this one as well. As there have been developments and sources created since the time of the original AFD, please review to see if your comments/!vote are the same or may have changed. Gaijin42 (talk)

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion involving you at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring regarding a possible violation of Wikipedia's policy on edit warring. Thank you. MastCell ^Talk 18:45, 1 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

No warning? Thanks. Collect (talk) 18:55, 1 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I've been told repeatedly that you don't want me to post here, and you typically remove my posts with rather combative edit summaries. I left you the required notification and will otherwise continue to avoid your talkpage. MastCell ^Talk 19:29, 1 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Where a policy requires a warning, it is reasonable to follow policy. My last post to you was:

Bullshit. You complained that "Santorum opposes euthanasia'" was unreferenced

I simply pointed out that the "Santorum is strongly against euthanasia" is precisely and exactly just as unreferenced. If one needs a "citation needed" than so does the other, and any other position is pure unadulterated manure. Cheers -- and stay the hell off this page. Collect (talk) 01:03, 14 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Which per policy does not apply to required notices. The repeated posts you claim I removed amounts to one [32] which was a proper removal of a template from you. I did not remove your later post at all. Cheers. Collect (talk) 19:35, 1 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Please cite the policy which requires a warning. WP:EW explicitly states that a warning is not required before a noticeboard report, so either you're misremembering or just making things up at this point. I have made a personal policy of asking experienced editors to self-revert rather than reporting them, as a courtesy (not a requirement). I applied this policy to you in the past, and asked you to self-revert one of your recent 3RR violations. You responded in a way I found incredibly petty and vexatious. You also commanded me in abusive terms to stay off your talkpage. Based on your actions and your previous conduct, you can expect that I will place required warnings here, but otherwise will make no comments or requests here. MastCell ^Talk 20:53, 1 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Actually it encourages a warning, and you are absolutely right that you are under no obligation to give a damn. Warm regards, Collect (talk) 20:57, 1 October 2014 (UTC) Cheers. Collect (talk) 20:57, 1 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

You have been blocked from editing for a period of 48 hours for edit warring, as you did at Joni Ernst. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to make useful contributions. If you think there are good reasons why you should be unblocked, you may appeal this block by adding the following text below this notice: {{unblock|reason=Your reason here ~~~~}}. However, you should read the guide to appealing blocks first.

During a dispute, you should first try to discuss controversial changes and seek consensus. If that proves unsuccessful, you are encouraged to seek dispute resolution, and in some cases it may be appropriate to request page protection.  Bishonen | talk 22:19, 1 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Please see my WP:3RR post here for a more detailed block rationale. Bishonen | talk 22:22, 1 October 2014 (UTC).[reply]

This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy).

Collect (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

---

Request reason:

Had I been given a warning, I would have specifically self-reverted as I explained at the report. I feel that where an edit has ben deemed to be a BLP issue during an RfC, that my relying on such an RfC result was proper. I further regret that the blocking admin seems to have interpreted my remarks as being against them personally, and suggest that using that to make the block longer for that reason is weak. Again - I am out of here, barring an unblock. Cheers to all, and best of luck ever using WP:BLP as it is intended. As far as "discussing controversial changes" at the article talk page, I most certainly did do that, and, in fact, the complainant opposed those discussions. Collect (talk) 22:34, 1 October 2014 (UTC)

Decline reason:

I find it a bit disingenuous to claim lack of warning. Your block log demonstrates you are amply aware of our edit warring policies. Also on several occasions you removed warnings for edit warring often with remarks to the effect that such warnings are not welcome[33][34][35].

You cannot remove warnings and tell people not to come back and then later complain that you did not get a warning. You have made it very clear that such warnings are not wanted or needed. I am declining your unblock request. Chillum 23:00, 1 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

---

If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.

I am looking into this right now. Chillum 22:41, 1 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. Collect (talk) 22:43, 1 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Adieu. Usually removing a warning is simply taken as evidence the warning was, indeed, seen, and is an absolutely proper action taken in userspace per The removal of material from a user page is normally taken to mean that the user has read and is aware of its contents. There is no need to keep them on display and usually users should not be forced to do so. It is often best to simply let the matter rest if the issues stop. If they do not, or they recur, then any record of past warnings and discussions can be found in the page history if ever needed, and these diffs are just as good evidence of previous matters if needed. It is not reasonable to interpret such removals of templates as an indication that warnings are not proper, rather it would reinforce the propriety of giving proper warnings. When no warning is even given, the presumption should be that such a warning was not seen. We do not penalize anyone for removing warning templates (indeed, I do not template people as a rule) Collect (talk) 23:32, 1 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

You are not being penalized for removing warnings. It simply means you are very much aware of our edit warring rules and have on multiple occasions acknowledged those warnings. Chillum 23:46, 1 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

You specified Also on several occasions you removed warnings for edit warring often with remarks to the effect that such warnings are not welcome[32][33][34]. I take it that this sentence was accidental? I would point out the nature of the complaints, and the nature of the edits involved in those cases, which frequently were egregious BLP violations.

Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/3RRArchive235#User:Collect_reported_by_User:Nomoskedasticity_.28Result:_No_action.29 was premised on the issue of whether labelling a person a "homophobe" in Wikipedia's voice was proper. [36]. I still maintain that using contentious names for any person or group in Wikipedia's voice is improper. Clearly others demurred.

Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/3RRArchive244#User:Collect_reported_by_User:Anarchangel_.28Result:_.29 was the other recent case. The use of "fuck" in BLPs is, IMHO, contentious. I would note some of the same editors seem to think it is wise to insert such language in BLPs at every opportunity.

The oft-noted Tea Party case made no findings at all against me excepting one which said calling a hypothetical claim "bosh and twaddle" (phrase made famous by Teddy Roosevelt) somehow was of importance.

The cited 2/0 block was handled at Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/IncidentArchive664#Block_of_User:Collect_by_User:2over0 which makes fine reading. I found the use of it to indicate how horrid I am to be risible.

The KofH case was handled at Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/IncidentArchive687#User_Rklawton_.22A_dirty.2C_rotten.2C_low-life.2C_disruptive_trick.22 and Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/IncidentArchive641. "Mutual consent" was KofH's solution. Note that User:Screwball23 is a proven sock master. In short, lots more air than substance in all of that "extensive block history" as one person averred. Cheers - I suggest if you look into facts and not just logs you might learn a bit. Collect (talk) 00:27, 2 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@Chillum: I think it is worth considering that Collect argued at the 3RR page that his edits were upholding WP:BLP. Thus, his statement in his request here, that he would have self-reverted had he received the warning, seems to imply that he would have reinstated what he thought was a BLP violation. I'm finding it difficult to see how one can have it both ways. --Tryptofish (talk) 01:11, 2 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

See Joseph Heller. Where possible, I try to avoid confrontation. Thus self-revert. But I still believe that one should "do right, even where others do not do it." Cheers - but what is the precise intent of your post here? Collect (talk) 01:20, 2 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

My precise intent is, seriously (as opposed to being risible), to make clear to the reviewing administrator information that I feel is relevant. --Tryptofish (talk) 01:24, 2 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

And I find your commentary on this to be less than relevant. I keep and have kept no "enemies lists" of any sort whatsoever. I find I often demur with those who do keep such. Cheers. Collect (talk) 01:33, 2 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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Has again been added to the Jameis Winston BLP. This rather shows the disdain held for the WP:BLP policy by entirely too many editors and administrators. Collect (talk) 23:13, 2 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

• Now at ANI, with no real hopes of anything happening. Asinine. Drmies (talk) 03:02, 4 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The major real sources do NOT use the word, but the usual editors seem intent on adding it in as many places as possible -- frankly, where the major sources do not use a word, neither ought we. This is a real problem, with some of the same actors repeatedly involved. Collect (talk) 12

46, 4 October 2014 (UTC)

[37]. Apparently I am the only editor he even cares about to see his witty mots. Collect (talk) 00:36, 3 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

[38] as he seems to be attacking me on his own talk page once again, but here is an example of his thinking:

For example: suppose user A comments at the talk page of a BLP on Dick Head, a notable member of the polygamous Church of MoreYoni, that Dick, his current wife and his ex-wife all appear to reside at the same address; and suppose user A comments further that "MoreYonis have such cosy domestic arrangements."

User B, who cannot see a wikiteacup without trying to stir a storm in it, deletes the comments and harrumphs about "blatant religious bigotry" in the edit summary. It's clearly a fatuous accusation, so why make it? Groundless accusations are often projections. If other users now check B's edit history and see that his contributions routinely convey an "obstinate or intolerant devotion to his own opinions and prejudices"--the very stuff of bigotry--the full extent of the irony will be evident to all.

FWIW, I consider calling a Mormon person a "MoreYoni", "polygamous", "Dick Head" to be blatantly a violation of Wikipedia policy, and that to make sexual comments as "cosy living arrangements" to be improper on any Wikipedia page whatsoever. Dissents welcome. The original post which the OP transmogrified into "MoreYoni" on his own userpage is at [39]

Of passing interest: the same Idaho Falls residential address is listed in White Pages for Frank, Vivian and Belinda. Mormons have such cosy domestic arrangements.

One more case where WP:BLP can be abused on a wholesale level. Collect (talk) 13:28, 3 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

F'rinstance - look at this rant:

:*Let me break it down for anyone who isn't paying attention: Wikipedia article creation and content is being manipulated by external lobby groups. These groups have combined forces to promote climate change denial, creationism, and conservative beliefs. Ideologically, they are an amalgam of free market fundamentalists and the Taliban. Tyson dared to defend climate change science, which threatens their fossil fuel monopoly, and he defends evolution which threatens their religion racket.

Is simply one of many examples of where Wikipedia's real problems are - and this sort of attitude of "us v. them" is found all too often on discussion pages. Instead of seeking conservatively written encyclopedic articles, some wish to make all articles a battleground to promote their own knowledge of the "absolute truth." The answer is, alas, not "42" but is to recognize the skillful use of their own ad hoc co-operation in order to negate the principles of NPOV and to make sure the "truth" is what Wikipedia shall promulgate, especially in political, religious, economic, and philosophical articles, and to demean, attack and castigate anyone who actually is trying to follow the principles of Wikipedia. Cheers. Collect (talk) 23:54, 3 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Talk about missing the point. External lobby groups have been actively attacking scientists for defending climate change and criticizing creationism. Instead of directly addressing the issue, you've ignored it and launched into your own rant. Has it occurred to you that Wikipedia should not be advocating and promoting the fringe opinions of external lobby groups or is that concept too complex for you to handle? Viriditas (talk) 01:31, 4 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I fear I am in the group which thinks those who see conspiracies behind every corner tend to be conspiracy theorists. Cheers. Collect (talk) 01:56, 4 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Collect, this is not a conspiracy, this is a real collaboration.[40] Your dismissal of reality is extremely troubling. They've been deliberately going after Tyson because Tyson dared to promote evolution and climate change science and criticize creationism.[41][42][43] This is a fact, Collect. You can deny until the cows come home, but you will only look silly and uninformed. Viriditas (talk) 02:05, 4 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Absolutely correct -- those who dismiss conspiracy theories are undoubtedly wrong. Thanks for being so clear on this. Collect (talk) 02:15, 4 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Collect, this isn't a conspiracy theory.[44][45][46] The same people attacking Tyson over climate change and creationism are the same people (and publications) attacking him over alleged "fabrications". This is how they work. When they can't address the science, they find a very small error, perhaps a misquote that is meaningless, and then inflate it into something it isn't to argue ad hominem: "You can't trust Tyson on climate change and evolution, after all, he misquoted George Bush!" Heartland has done the same thing and is closely associated with the Federalist authors/website. Are you still claiming that this is a conspiracy? Because there are entire books written about how Heartland and Discovery attack scientists like this. Please don't argue from ignorance. Are you aware that Heartland and Discovery have a long history of this kind of behavior? Heartland was the group responsible for attacking and waging a campaign against Rachel Carson. It would take some time to list the number of climate scientists they have waged campaigns against. This isn't conspiracy, this is a documented, historical fact recorded in the finest, most reliable sources. The Discovery Institute is driven to replace the teaching of evolution in the schools and has expressed their primary goal of attacking "scientific materialism". I've already given you links to key people from Discovery attacking Tyson for promoting evolution. Viriditas (talk) 02:39, 4 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

You have proven the vast right wing extremist conspiracy controls Wikipedia, and every article is under the cabal's secret control. Cheers. Collect (talk) 12:47, 4 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@Viriditas: I wish you wouldn't conflate climate change and creationism, they have so little in common. I have seen creationist supporter unhappy with Tyson - hardly surprising. However, the linkage between Tyson and climate change is almost always by the left trying to gin up a controversy. The conservative sites have gone out of their way to say that Tyson's blunder regarding the Bush quote has absolutely nothing to do with anyone's views on climate change. I can't do much about the misinformation in the mainstream press, but I can try to keep that misinformation from being cited as if it were fact in here.--S Philbrick(Talk) 14:44, 9 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@Sphilbrick: I appreciate and respect your civil comments, but I'm afraid I strongly disagree with your position. The "left" (whomever that is, since we currently have no "left" in the U.S.) is an invisible, non-existent entity that the right uses as a scapegoat. The linkage between petrochemical lobbies like Heartland, who are the leading climate deniers in the world, and the anti-evolution and anti-secularism lobby like Discovery, are clear and unambiguous. I have documented a very small sample of their collaboration on the attacks on Tyson here. Please note, this represents less than half of the attacks against Tyson. If you look closely, you will find creationists attacking Tyson on his climate change position and climate deniers attacking him on his position regarding religion. This is not a coincidence. The petrochemical lobby in the guise of Heartland has combined efforts with the creation lobby represented by Discovery, and they are publishing each other's attacks on Tyson on their respective websites to maximize the echo chamber of the right wing noise machine. This has also been documented by numerous reliable sources. Your continuing claim that this is "misinformation" is the real misinformation. Viriditas (talk) 21:44, 9 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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Thanks for the link to the New Jersey copyright discussion - that was one that I had missed when I was off playing with orphaned free files. Kelly ^hi! 06:57, 7 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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Thanks for removing the syrup from Scott Greenstein. NeilN talk to me 23:45, 10 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I know you are one of our experts on BLP policy, so I have a question.

The background is that there is a bit of a tussle regarding the inclusion of an incident involving a statement made by Neil DeGrasse Tyson about Bush. To the best of my knowledge, there is no debate about the factual nature of the incident.

Wikipedia generally eschews edit warring, to the point that editors can be blocked for the removal or addition of material even though the removal or addition may be warranted. Editors are expected to handle disputes about content in a particular way, and that way does not include brute force, with one exception. BLP acts as a trump card, so that the removal of material, which might otherwise be edit warring, gets a pass.

I agree with this position. However, while I support the notion of a trump card, it isn't, to abuse the metaphor, a wild card, to be used whenever you chose for whatever purpose. The edit must comply with BLP policy in order to earn the exemption.

A key sentence in the BLP is:

Contentious material about living persons (or, in some cases, recently deceased) that is unsourced or poorly sourced – whether the material is negative, positive, neutral, or just questionable – should be removed immediately and without waiting for discussion.

However, it is my opinion that some editors are acting as if the policy says:

Contentious material about living persons (or, in some cases, recently deceased) – whether the material is negative, positive, neutral, or just questionable – should be removed immediately and without waiting for discussion.

As an aside, I think the policy should be strengthened; I think it should apply in some cases where sourcing is not poor, but that's a discussion for another time.

At the moment, I'm interested in your views on whether the phrase missing in the second formation—that is unsourced or poorly sourced—is an unimportant aside, or a key part of the policy. I'm also interested in knowing whether this debate has occurred in the past.

As a related point, while Wp:WEIGHT hasn't played an important part of the Federalist debate, it has in the Tyson article. It is my belief that weight issues must be debated and a consensus reached, but a dispute over weight does not rise to the level that permits the trump card of BLP Policy to be used. While a contentious argument over the factual nature of a claim means that the claim should be removed until an editor consensus is reached, I do not think the same holds true for a weight claim - one should not be able to invoke BLP to remove something when one disagrees with the weight, if only for the reason that this would truly be a wild card, and permit anyone at anytime to removed well-sourced material simply by claiming there are questions about weight and the material should be removed until resolved. Do you know if this point has been debated in the past, and do you have an opinion?--S Philbrick(Talk) 22:44, 13 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The Tyson issue is interesting. When the issue was first raised at RS/N, my opinion was that the editorial opinions of people saying that Tyson misused quotes should be ascribed as opinion, but that the claim that quotes were misused is not a "contentious claim" in itself. At that point in time, before Tyson acknowledged the misuse of quotes, there was a marginal case that it was akin to a criminal claim (although I tend to regard it as far different from, say, a claim of child molestation etc. seen in the BBC presenter BLPs and BDPs.

You are, of course, correct that the policy refers to "unsourced or poorly sourced" - which is an important part of the policy as worded - and which generally means that we need a strong reliable source making a claim of fact. Where the claim is an opinion properly cited as opinion, this is often misused with a claim that the person holding the opinion can not be a strong source for the fact that they hold the opinion - which is pushing the envelope a bit. Rather, I suggest that a source for the fact that someone holds an opinion need only be clearly something reflecting what that person actually stated (as in an editorial column) and that "reliable source" does not mean "unimpeachable as to fact" as no source meets that wondrous standard in my experience.

In the Tyson affair, there was, at first, demurral as to whether any misquote had occurred. Tyson's statements now make clear that such misquotes did occur, and that demurral seems now to be useless as a reason for omitting a brief mention of the affair, just as the opposition based on the initial claims being opinion now seem moot.

There is also the position that since the initial source has a partisan POV, that therefore its opinions should be elided, however I find that argument weak as Wikipedia frequently uses such sources in articles without dismissing them as being partisan. Some time ago I considered that issue in WP:Source pH wherein I suggested that sources which are outliers from neutral positions should be used more sparingly than ones which are closer to neutral, which might provide a way forward in the distant future. In the case at hand, several of the sources appear to be fairly close to being centrist, making that argument in the Tyson case a tad weak.

I also find the "weight" position to have problems. Wikipedia seeks to represent scientific positions with the weight accorded them in scholarly literature, but it is often used in arguments that unless every source mentioning the person also mentions the controversies, that the controversies lack the "weight" in the literature to be presented in articles, which is a pretty clear misreading of the policies involved. Conversely, we also have had "6 day wonders" of controversies which get major articles in Wikipedia (vide the famed Romney dog affair, the Bush drug allegations, etc.) which rapidly get overblown on Wikipedia.

I am a believer in terse mentions of whatever is not remotely a criminal allegation <g>, and feel that we should look at entire articles (WP:PIECE which suggests that we truly adhere to NPOV as applied to an entire article and not argue the weight of each sentence) and their actual utility to readers in two decades, rather than to what editors find "important" during the political silly seasons. In the Tyson affair, I proposed short and "sticking to the facts" text, without much success.

I think this covers my opinions in general, and I would love to clarify anything which is unclear. Collect (talk) 00:25, 14 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the extensive response.--S Philbrick(Talk) 14:58, 14 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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Your comment here is an egregious violation of WP:BLP. Specifically, you disparage a living person—essentially accusing him of fraud—and cite in support unreliable personal blogs and online forum posts. That you would violate BLP so casually while trumpeting your commitment to upholding it is... ironic. In the short term, could you please take steps to remedy this BLP violation? In the longer term, it might be helpful to re-think your approach to WP:BLP. Based on your actions here, you seem to grasp its potential as a weapon but not its actual meaning or import. MastCell ^Talk 22:56, 15 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Um - I cited the sources online. The noticeboard is not a BLP and the issue was using a claim that a living person sold his autographs, which is a BLP violation which you seem to condone here. and one should note that the discussion there is exactly in conformance with WP:BLP. I suggest you re-examine your approach to WP:BLP as you seem to apply it in a very POV maner in articles. Cheers. Collect (talk) 03:10, 16 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

(talk page stalker) What!? BLP policy doesn't apply to content on noticeboards? And it's okay to repeat potentially problematic content (in this case an allegation of fraudulent behaviour) so long as it's sourced somewhere (in this case, to a blog)? I'm no WP:BLP expert but that doesn't sound right to me. Alexbrn ^{talk|contribs|COI} 05:15, 16 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

My post on the BLP/N board was to point out that some editors were trying to violate BLP in the case at hand in a specific biography of a living person. I pointed out that most sports autographs are, indeed, fakes, and that this was one of the reasons that reporting a "reported" investigation was a BLP violation. To that end, pointing out the problems in the field of sports autographs is not a BLP violation, nor did I make any surmise other than that found in online sources. Including a TV station report etc. Cheers. Collect (talk) 11:46, 16 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Collect, would you consider supporting the "alternative text" that begins "In the summer and fall of 2014, conservative websites and social media attacked Tyson's character and scientific understanding . . ." I'm not in love with it, either, but it may be the best chance to achieve a consensus compromise for inclusion. Please consider. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 00:47, 17 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

No. The issue has nothing to do with "conservative" or "liberal" but with a person repeatedly misquoting a noted person. Collect (talk) 01:35, 17 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Fair enough, Collect. In my estimation, recognizing that Tyson quoted Bush out of context, and that Tyson apologized for it, is at least half a loaf. Forcing a compromise at NDGT will also break the logjam at The Federalist article where a somewhat different turn of phrase may be expected. I also have a WP policy concern: 12 months from now, no one is going to remember the exact wording of NDGT article, but everyone will remember the precedent of the BLP veto-overstretch on the flimsiest of pretexts by the "no way, no how" crowd. And for me, that's a far bigger issue than the exact phrasing. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 01:47, 17 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

If the only issue were "this is what the right wing says to discredit people" then that is not a really good basis for any entry in an encyclopedia article. I prefer to stick with facts and not with opinions or conspiracy theories in BLPs. Collect (talk) 02:17, 17 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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I'm a bit surprised by the edit you made to Paul LePage on 9/20, regarding his meetings with members of the Sovereign Citizens Movementdiff. Some of your changes strike me as reasonable - I agree with your change to the section title as there seems to be some dispute about whether or not these men were members of the movement. However, I think you cut so much out of the section that the reader who isn't familiar with the term "Sovereign Citizens movement" wouldn't know why such meetings would be newsworthy. The newspaper articles about this incident all mention that these sovereign citizens alluded to executing leaders of the state legislature - in fact, that's in the headline of the cited Bangor Daily News article. However, your version of the text only mentions the execution claim in order to say that the participants deny it: all your version of the text says about the matter is: "Two of the men who had met with LePage rejected the claims of ties to the "sovereign citizen movement" and denied any discussions of executions took place." The reader has no context about who the men were supposed to have discussed executing or why, only that they say they didn't discuss it. You claimed that "the value to readers [of the content you removed] is nil", but I don't think that the sovereign citizens group or its ideology are familiar to readers, so the specific things that these men said in the meetings, as well as the actions that the governor took on their behalf, are relevant to readers. I'd like to reinsert at least some of the material into the article. GabrielF (talk) 01:10, 21 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

See WP:BLP please. Collect (talk) 08:44, 21 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Collect, I noticed that you made this edit [47] and stated that the reason for the removal is that the sources are non WP:RS. I'm confused because you did not removed the sources in their entirety or any other associated content, just what pertained to TheRichest.com. Thanks, --SChotrod - Just your average banjo playing, drag racing, cowboy... (Talk) ☮ღ☺ 19:22, 23 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

"therichest.com" is not a reliable source as far as I can tell for anything - see the WP:RS/N discussions thereon. I left some claims in place so that at some point someone might find actual sources, but I could have removed them instead. Collect (talk) 21:18, 23 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

As a source, OK, I get that. But saying that she was awarded something (in this case a ranking) doesn't seem to make it unreliable. Plus it was correctly attributed to the publication versus something like, "Benz was ranked as the #1 porn star in 2013". It simply said that a media outlet had awarded her status. Plus a 3rd party reported the ranking. I also did some checking on TheRichest.com and its quoted by other news outlets like Fox News. Granted, not a bastion of journalistic excellence, but it seems like a minor thing to delete for WP:RS. --SChotrod - Just your average banjo playing, drag racing, cowboy... (Talk) ☮ღ☺ 22:04, 23 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Unless a source is clearly a secondary reliable source, it really does not help Wikipedia articles to rely on it. Cheers. Collect (talk) 22:22, 23 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The Mediation Committee has received a request for formal mediation of the dispute relating to "Christian terrorism". As an editor concerned in this dispute, you are invited to participate in the mediation. Mediation is a voluntary process which resolves a dispute over article content by facilitation, consensus-building, and compromise among the involved editors. After reviewing the request page, the formal mediation policy, and the guide to formal mediation, please indicate in the "party agreement" section whether you agree to participate. Because requests must be responded to by the Mediation Committee within seven days, please respond to the request by 30 October 2014.

Collect, per this will you please consider withdrawing the RfC so mediation can proceed? Clock is ticking on that. Thanks. Jytdog (talk) 13:25, 24 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Suspended - but if the mediation does not actually get started, the suspension may be undone - Cheers. Collect (talk) 14:04, 24 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Do not threaten me in the fashion you just did here. Adding, improving and rephrasing material is not "edit warring." I responded to your request for sources with more sources, I expanded the text and I discussed at talk. You disagree with the content I added and kept reverting me wholesale, THAT is POV-pushing, I strongly suggest you not accuse me of reverting or of having some sort of agenda when you happen to lack Clean hands yourself - you have an obvious pro-right-wing bias in your editing patterns and spend most of your time on political articles (whereas I edit a wide range of topics). I have no interest in giving you further reason to be a pain in my butt for now but I will be adding more on Daines' endorsements later. I suggest that instead of threatening other long-time editors how about you add content instead of drama? If you expand the sectionon his endorsements, then I won't need to. Montanabw^(talk) 08:29, 26 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I did not "threaten" you, nor would I tell anyone to "go f- yourself" - your edits count as reverts under Wikipedia policy, and they are substantial reverts full covered by the WP:EW policy. And note, there is an ongoing RfC covering your apparent POV desires which does not appear to back the additions of claims that Daines is "tea stained" as you would insert. As for your claim that I am "pro-right-wing" - that is ludicrous - I use the exact same standards on all BLPs across the board (vide Alex Sink, etc.). Several thousand of them. Political BLPs make up a small fraction of my total edits, and I suggest you look at the fact I generally remove unsourced material or unsourced categorization of living persons. The article I worked on most is Joseph Widney which I pruned down in order to make it a "Good Article". Meanwhile, do not assert that editors who are nowhere near Montana are members of Daines' "staff" or the like. Cheers. Collect (talk) 08:52, 26 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

You have been randomly selected to receive an invitation to participate in the request for comment on Talk:John Wood (Room to Read). Should you wish to respond, your contribution to this discussion will be appreciated. For tips, please see WP:Requests for comment#Suggestions for responding. If you wish to change the frequency or topics of these notices, or do not wish to receive them any longer, please adjust your entries at WP:Feedback request service. — Legobot (talk) 00:00, 27 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The request for formal mediation of the dispute concerning Christian terrorism, in which you were listed as a party, has been accepted by the Mediation Committee. The case will be assigned to an active mediator within two weeks, and mediation proceedings should begin shortly thereafter. Proceedings will begin at the case information page, Wikipedia:Requests for mediation/Christian terrorism, so please add this to your watchlist. Formal mediation is governed by the Mediation Committee and its Policy. The Policy, and especially the first two sections of the "Mediation" section, should be read if you have never participated in formal mediation. For a short guide to accepted cases, see the "Accepted requests" section of the Guide to formal mediation. You may also want to familiarise yourself with the internal Procedures of the Committee.

I both thank and apologize for my attempt at adding to this topic. I am new to writing in Wikipedia and regrettably i am not very knowledgeable in what is allowed and what is not. As part of a class assignment i was to add information to my chosen topic, Prison-industrial complex. If you can offer any suggestions for revision of what i had put up i would gladly accept and work on them to correct my errors. Thank you for any help you can provide. Shadowbolt7 (talk) 20:30, 30 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

First of all -- brief sections get read more than long walls of text. Second, if you wish to cover a topic, use multiple reliable sources on the topic - simply rewording an article from another source is still against policy. Third - always remember that articles must be written from a neutral point of view - we can not editorialize in any articles. Find four or five independent sources, see what they basically agree upon, and write brief sentences comprising that material and use the markup tags to link the claims to the cites used for such claims. Cheers. Collect (talk) 20:34, 30 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Collect, i tried to follow your suggestions by shortening what i had written from before to just the main points, attempting to keep as much of a neutral tone (while still stating facts of the situation), and using two sources that state the same things( hence why i had two sources/citations listed after each one as i only wanted to add sections that i could find multiple sources to). I am a bit lost as to what to do to fix it. I honestly do think that this is relevant information to the topic, as far as the section on economics are concerned, but that perhaps i am inexperienced in wiki writing. At this point i would have no objections to having help from you or anyone on the rewording, if that is the problem, to fix this. Thank youShadowbolt7 (talk) 17:03, 24 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The single short sentence covers what the sources state. I am unsure as to whether the sources make clear that this is a "prison-industrial complex" issue however, or whether they are dealing with a single issue not related to the topic of the article. Collect (talk) 17:22, 24 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I can see your point that it could be put under it's own topic but if it relates to the prison industrial topic would it help if i explained the why or how it connects? I have in their partially why from an economic point but perhaps it is to weak of connection to the main topic of the page. Would that help to make it more appropriate? Or perhaps connecting that into other parts of the economics section where it describes methods of saving money or cutting costs?Shadowbolt7 (talk) 17:30, 24 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

If the reliable sources do not make an explicit connection, it is a major problem in the article - we are not supposed to do original research on a topic. Cheers. Collect (talk) 17:38, 24 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I guess that's where i have my problem. I would love to do a research project just on that but i understand that the wiki has guidelines for what is allowed. Perhaps I'll keep looking and see if i can find any research that has already been done that more accurately connects the two(appropriate and wiki approved research). At the very least i thank you for your help with this and perhaps someone might be able to find more information and build on what little i have added.Shadowbolt7 (talk) 17:45, 24 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

You have been randomly selected to receive an invitation to participate in the request for comment on Talk:George Clooney. Should you wish to respond, your contribution to this discussion will be appreciated. For tips, please see WP:Requests for comment#Suggestions for responding. If you wish to change the frequency or topics of these notices, or do not wish to receive them any longer, please adjust your entries at WP:Feedback request service. — Legobot (talk) 00:00, 2 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Any contributions you may choose to make at Talk:United States#Area in square miles would be welcome.

I found a new resource for United States square mile area from the U.S. Census, “State and other areas” which uses the MAF/TIGER database, shared by the USGS and Homeland Security. The first box on the first line reports 3,805,927 sq.mi. for the 50 states, DC, Puerto Rico, and "Island Areas”. I support the use of the chart total report based on sources to include islands which are a part of the United States "in a geographical sense."

The U.S. is a federal republic but it considers itself as a “sole person” in the international community. The U.S. territories should be reported as included in the nation just as in the France article. The French legislature allows territorial Deputies in its national legislature, the US. allows territorial Delegates, the British does not. The “unincorporated” status of the territories is for an internal tax regime, and is irrelevant to reporting the total area of the United States of America.

The three who opposed including islander U.S. citizens in the United States introduction in the Dispute Resolution of March of 2013 now propose to parse the sub-charts of the source to report only the states and DC, without sources to exclude the territories. I am now joined by RightCowLeftCoast, but TFD asserts the minority in the Dispute Resolution was a “consensus” to exclude U.S. citizen islanders. Any contributions you may choose to make at Talk:United States#Area in square miles would be welcome. TheVirginiaHistorian (talk) 12:30, 2 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Collect. Thank you for the work you've done to keep my Wikipedia article fair; I'm in your debt. But I was hoping I could ask you a question. User:Greenrd just went on my User_talk:Jartine page a few minutes ago and started accusing me of using sockpuppetry to edit my own Wikipedia page, when I did no such thing. Is this appropriate behavior for Wikipedia editor? I apologize, but I'm really not familiar with Wikipedia policy. Thank you in advance for your help. --Jartine (talk) 23:46, 2 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

It is highly improper for any editor to make such accusations. There is a proper noticeboard at WP:SPI but that would require the person to actually find evidence of sock puppetry. If you need anything further, my email link works. Cheers. Collect (talk) 00:01, 3 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Your recent editing history at Confiscated Armenian properties in Turkey shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war. To resolve the content dispute, instead of reverting please consider using the article's talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. See BRD for how this is done. If discussions reach an impasse, you can then post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection.

Being involved in an edit war can result in your being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you don't violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly. BlueMoonset (talk) 00:41, 4 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The edits being inserted allege that specific living persons benefitted from a Genocide - which is a quite contentious claim about living persons. I also note that you were the first editor to revert the insertion -- the editor inserting the problematic material three times is the one who needs the warning -- unless you now wish to warn Drmies as well? <g> is the one who is breaching policy at this point. Cheers. Collect (talk) 01:14, 4 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

You have been randomly selected to receive an invitation to participate in the request for comment on Talk:Paul LePage. Should you wish to respond, your contribution to this discussion will be appreciated. For tips, please see WP:Requests for comment#Suggestions for responding. If you wish to change the frequency or topics of these notices, or do not wish to receive them any longer, please adjust your entries at WP:Feedback request service. — Legobot (talk) 00:00, 7 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, I have asked for a 3rd opinion on our dispute about the article about J. T. The 3rd opinion page recommends I notify you that I have done this, so I am notifying you. Cheers.--greenrd (talk) 17:41, 9 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, Collect. This is a required notification about this request. Your comments there, while not required, would be welcome. Regards, Xenophrenic (talk) 20:40, 10 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

You have been randomly selected to receive an invitation to participate in the request for comment on Talk:Alan Chambers (Exodus International). Should you wish to respond, your contribution to this discussion will be appreciated. For tips, please see WP:Requests for comment#Suggestions for responding. If you wish to change the frequency or topics of these notices, or do not wish to receive them any longer, please adjust your entries at WP:Feedback request service. — Legobot (talk) 00:00, 13 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hey, I know and understand the policies on BLP, but your edits removing sourced content while the RfC is underway is inappropriate. Leave the content as it is until consensus is reached. Vertium ^{When all is said} _{and done} 14:09, 17 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

And... BTW, Cathy is not a living person. The contributions against the LGBT community are not heresay, nor are they supposition or something that people just "know". It's been documented and reported by reliable sources. Vertium ^{When all is said} _{and done} 14:11, 17 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Read WP:BLP and note that it does apply to "recently deceased." The desire to label Southern Baptists as "anti-gay" or "homophobic" is a substantial problem in many articles. Collect (talk) 15:22, 17 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Ditto. Collect, please wait until the RfC is concluded to see if there is consensus for removing well-sourced content from the article. Your appeal to WP:BLP appears to be an attempt to game the system, since the content is abundantly sourced and the organizations' policies are not living people. With respect to edit warring, it would also be advisable to adhere to the same standards that you demand of others.- MrX 14:26, 17 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I restored your last version - I would have thought that would be enough. And amazingly enough, I regard WP:BLP as being extremely important, as do many other editors. The refrain "people who cite BLP are simply gaming the system" is an abhorrent canard. The clear intent of the "anti-gay" is to refer in some way to Cathy, and thus does fall under WP:BLP. Cheers. And kindly do not try using the "gaming" canard again. Collect (talk) 15:22, 17 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

You have been randomly selected to receive an invitation to participate in the request for comment on Talk:Imran Khan. Should you wish to respond, your contribution to this discussion will be appreciated. For tips, please see Wikipedia:Requests for comment § Suggestions for responding. If you wish to change the frequency or topics of these notices, or do not wish to receive them any longer, please adjust your entries at WP:Feedback request service. — Legobot (talk) 00:00, 18 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia_talk:Administrators#Non-administrator_arbitrators. Thanks. — {{U|Technical 13}} ^{(e • t • c)} 20:58, 20 November 2014 (UTC)Template:Z48[reply]

Hello! I just uncovered your AIV report, a day and a half later, since it seems to have been inserted into the page instructions and was therefore not visible on the main AIV page. The vandal you reported was blocked, so no harm done. Just a heads-up for next time. Best, m.o.p 06:46, 21 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I had moved it - and then it got stuck back in -- dunno how it happened, but sometimes I think Windows 8 is the "enemy" <g>. Thanks. Collect (talk) 07:10, 21 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I want to avoid a potential revert war here so I thought I would explain my revert more explicitly than I could do in the summary the summary box. My concern is that the version you reverted to made no notice of the events of 2014. This, unfortunately, made the article look like it was hiding something. It also made the article incomplete as the work section now referenced to studios pulling projects within 2014 due to sexual abuse allegations without it ever being clear why exactly those claims became relevant in 2014. I, like you, am trying to avoid creating a slanderous article, however all these claims have been verified by trustworthy sources and I do not feel that any thing here is libel. --Deathawk

Once we name four people - that is surely enough. None of the allegations refer to 2014 events. Collect (talk) 08:26, 21 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

You have been randomly selected to receive an invitation to participate in the request for comment on Talk:Mark Begich. Should you wish to respond, your contribution to this discussion will be appreciated. For tips, please see Wikipedia:Requests for comment § Suggestions for responding. If you wish to change the frequency or topics of these notices, or do not wish to receive them any longer, please adjust your entries at WP:Feedback request service. — Legobot (talk) 00:00, 24 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with you that redistricted districts do not have successors as senators, governors, president, et. with fixed districts do. Rather than calling them "successors", implying the same group of voters voted them as those in the past district and the same boundaries i.e. same district, I prefer something along the lines of "meta-ccessors".(n/s)

Easier to simply say that if a person actually wins an election against a person that they "succeeded" the person, and if both win n different districts that neither is "successor" to the other. Collect (talk) 21:27, 24 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

please stop rehashing issues in the mediation. please let the mediator guide the discussion and just respond simply and directly to questions the mediator asks. thank you. Jytdog (talk) 06:26, 25 November 2014 (UTC)(struck, apologies for the offense Jytdog (talk) 16:50, 25 November 2014 (UTC))[reply]

I posted short and proper material on the mediation page - if you make posts like this again, I shall withdraw from the mediation. I find your tone precisely and completely inapt if you sincerely wish to find common ground and consensus. Cheers. Collect (talk) 06:41, 25 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hey Collect. Just wanted to let you know that I answered the last of your questions. Thanks for asking them all :) → Call me Hahc21 13:36, 25 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you - I found your answers to be fairly reasonable indeed. Good luck! Collect (talk) 17:30, 25 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Please note that that the succession box (at the bottom) is not an infobox (at the top). The succession box says "Member from the Xth district" Fact is that Grimm was the "Member from the 13th District" and now Rangel is the "Member from the 13th District", so there is a clear succession concerning this point. No consensus for succession boxes can be established at an "Infobox" discussion, because the existence and addition/non-addition/removal of such is contentious, has beeen subject to a full-fledged war, is subject to ArbCom sanctions, and many editors are barred from even commenting there. On the other side, succession boxes are used following this exact pattern at ten thousands of articles, not only all congress bios, but also a vast number of state legislators, and nobody ever questioned it. Succession boxes are meant to help navigation, not to discuss fine encyclopedic points. The very existence of them would be called in question, since redistricting every ten years os so, would make them utterly useless, having written "redistricted" on either side. Please revert yourself at Michael Grimm. Then start a discussion at Template:succession box, invite all who routinely work with them, and get some input. At the end, we should follow consensus, whatever that may be. Kraxler (talk) 15:46, 26 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Please note there is now an RfC at the template which you seem to defend. I suggest further that you note the edit at Michael Grimm was in accord with the discussion at the talk page for that BLP - thus you seem to ask I unilaterally abrogate the consensus there. Sorry - I suggest that since that particular BLP had a discussion about whether Rangel "succeeded" him, that it is up to you to start a new discussion saying why that consensus is no longer valid. See [48] if you wish to see how the NYT handles it. Cheers. Collect (talk) 15:56, 26 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

If Rangel just takes exception to be mentioned on one page with Grimm, then it's ok with me. I'll let it go as a unique BLP occurrence.

What you can't do are two things: First: claim that consensus for infoboxes is valid for succession boxes, it's not. They are two very distinct things with different purposes. And second: change well established long-time Wiki usage on a vast number of articles for any reason, without consulting the community. Could we agree on that?

The NYT article doesn't mention Rangel or any district number. Districts are not just renumbered, the geographical area changes also. Anytime the total number of districts changes, they have to cut up the area in a different way. Sometimes two incumbents run against each other, so one actually succeeds the other in half a district, and succeeds himself/stays in office in the other half. All that is obviously explainable in the text, but unexplainable in a succession box. For that reason, the boxes for district seats follow always exclusively the number. A question common sense, rather. If anybody comes up with something better, I certainly want to hear of it. Cheers. Kraxler (talk) 18:21, 26 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

And note that no Congressional biography lists "district number" either, nor asserts "succession" based on "district number". Now if you wish to say that Wikipedia is a valid source for Wikipedia to state something not found in any reliable source then say it. I rely on what NYB has said: "It seems logical to me that the two templates would follow the same standards." And if reliable sources do not assert "succession" then we can not rationally use Wikipedia per se to make the claim. Cheers. Collect (talk) 18:38, 26 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Succession: suc·ces·sion

səkˈseSHən

noun

2.the action or process of inheriting an office

District numbers have nothing to do with succession when they aren't kept the same, i.e. redistricted, because then it is not the same office representing the same area and people as the previous district of the same name. All they do is share a name. If districts are redistricted every 10 years, only during those 10 years after that and before the next redistricting can you consider it true succession like a US senator, president, or governor whom all have fixed districts (the states and nation). If you want to keep links for navigation that's fine but use a word that doesn't imply that (almost) everything about the district is the same as the past election prior to redistricting.Dairyfarmer777 (talk) 19:37, 26 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Precisely. Where the redistricting is minor, this is not a "big deal" but gaining/losing seats frequently makes for religious use of "district number" being absurd. Thanks. Collect (talk) 20:28, 26 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Please keep discussion centralized at Template talk:Succession box#RfC. Thanks. Kraxler (talk) 20:54, 27 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Please note you started the discussion here and I see no reason to 'obey' you when you were the first in the section. Cheers. Collect (talk) 21:01, 27 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

• Thanks for the RfC invitation, but I've been very peripheral to that discussion and won't weigh in. However you left a couple of comments on my talk page that I thought I would respond to, there. I'm copying them here as an afterthought, or you'll probably never see my response.
  • == neutral RfC notification ==

Template_talk:Succession_box#RfC has a discussion on succession box usage. You had previously noted or opined at Template_talk:Infobox_officeholder/Archive_18#RfC_on_successor.2Fpredecessor_where_a_district_is_not_reasonably_viewed_as_the_same_after_redistricting thanks. Collect (talk) 21:29, 27 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I wrongly assumed that the Infobox discussion might actually be moribund.

I note that Bill de Blasio is almost 6'6".

I was surprised when Weyhrauch was indicted. I'd always had the impression that he was quite clean. I was glad to see his felony conviction was set aside, though I hated to see Conrad Black and Jeff Skilling get off the hook at the same time.

Feel free to erase these comments, so they don't distract from the issue. Activist (talk) 23:42, 27 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Alas - it appears some people do not understand why the two templates well ought to be construed in parallel. What grade would a Civics teacher give a student who said Grimm was succeeded by Rangel in Congress? <g>. Thanks. Collect (talk) 00:12, 28 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

"In Congress" is not the same as succession in the numbered district. Physical boundaries don't matter. This article clearly lists congressmen who served under that district number and it shows Rangel right under Grimm. TL565 (talk) 03:46, 28 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Congress does not use district numbers. Really. No reliable source makes the assertion that Rangel 'succeeded Grimm. None. Wikipedia is using Wikipedia as a source when it makes that assertion. The discussion at Infobox officeholder reached that clear conclusion. "Numbered districts" are only used for the purpose of holding elections, and for no other purpose, and where the orthogonality of people is sufficiently extreme, all we do is provide failing grades to readers who use that claim. Cheers. Collect (talk) 13:32, 28 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Give me a reliable source that says Grimm succeeded Yvette Clarke. I assume there was one because you don't seem to have problem with that being displayed. The discussion at Infobox officeholder was just you making claims with no evidence of being fact at all. If your claims are true then it applies to every other representative past and present not just Charlie Rangel, which for some reason you only care about. If you can't be bothered to change the other articles, then your argument can't be taken seriously. TL565 (talk) 14:54, 28 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

"If you can't be bothered to change the other articles, then your argument can't be taken seriously." This doesn't follow. Who has time to change so many articles on their own? If you can convince those opposed on one article you can join together to convince those doing others articles. I.e. Changing the tide. But just because one hasn't changed all the other articles is not a sufficient reason to not change one and move on to the others. Its strange that you add this stipulation to others yet you don't do that yourself. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.180.33.59 (talk) 17:57, 28 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

What is strange is you seem to be following me and showing up in discussions I'm involved with. Are you still bitter about the past dispute we had or what? I am now 100% sure you are Dairyfarmer777, who vandalized my user page. TL565 (talk) 02:53, 29 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not following you. Don't flattering yourself. Those articles are fixed so no reason for me to be bitter. I'm following the discussion on "succession" of redistricted districts where collect has been posting. I'm 100% sure you're paranoid. Way to be off topic.

I do not like any box where the claim is made in Wikipedia's voice that someone preceded or succeeded someone where the claim is not sourced to a reliable source (indeed, cannot be sourced to a reliable source with a straight face) - the blatant example here is Rangel/Grimm but that does not mean I approve of any clearly errant claims. And where the district remains the same or substantially the same, there is no problem. Where there is no connection between the districts, there is, indeed, a problem. Or else I suggest you write to the NYT that Rangel was Grimm's successor and ask them to print that "fact." As for the claim that unless I do every single article that this is not a "serious" position, kindly note "Lo alecha hamlacha ligmor". Such an argument is fatuous. Cheers. Collect (talk) 18:08, 28 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Again, Your opinion not fact. I have yet to see any source that backs up your argument. Rangel/Grimm isn't any more blatant than the others. How many times must it be said, it is about the number of the district is why they are connected. This is the way it has been from the start. I find it strange you suddenly took issue to it this year. Where were you all those years before? Right now, I am tempted to change the articles back to the way they were before until a real decision is made. TL565 (talk) 02:53, 29 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

It is the one I found. It is a horrid thing to provide absolutely wrong information to readers. I am not All-Knowing about every problem on Wikipedia. Odin I am not, but when I do see a problem, I damn well try to emend it. That is what "Lo alecha hamlacha ligmor" means. And I suggest that you read WP:CONSENSUS before doing what you appear to threaten to do. Cheers. Collect (talk) 12:48, 29 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

You lost any credibility you had. Your opinions are not facts. I am also trying to fix a problem on Wikipedia. I tried for a week to explain it to you, but you kept ignoring the obvious problem I was trying to point out. By the way, the de facto consensus which has been in place from the start of Wikipedia, is currently what 99% of representatives pages are following right now, not some dubious discussion earlier this year. If you really want to change something that has been in place since the start of the entire project and would effect thousands of articles, then there needs to be a Major discussion about it. This is not something that can be changed in a few days. TL565 (talk) 13:43, 29 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Um -- my opinions are the same as the apparent consensus at the RfCs - Wikipedia is governed by WP:CONSENSUS. Kindly note that the RfC process does notify a great many people, and the history of Wikipedia is that the results of RfCs are honoured. Cheers. Collect (talk) 14:32, 29 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Look, I am trying to work with you. I don't want this to escalate into something worse, but you are not even trying find any middle ground. You keep mentioning the RfC as something that was clear and decided on, but it leads me to believe otherwise because it wasn't applied to 99% of articles it should have. Why only apply this new rule to Grimm and Rangel only? There are probably thousands of articles of congressmen on Wikipedia that have used the succession box in its current state for years. I think to change so many articles that have been the same since the start of Wikipedia, there would need to be a HUGE discussion with a lot of users being involved on why it should be changed. I don't think the RfC did that. I don't think people foresaw the problems arising after that discussion either. I think to have it only applied to two congressmen and have the rest unchanged is completely unacceptable and problematic. It is confusing to readers and inconsistent to have it that way. This kind of inconsistency I think, hurts Wikipedia more, not fixes it. Believe me, I am sincerely trying to help the project, but this is a much bigger problem than it seems and needs a much larger discussion and thought put in to it. Please hear me out for once. TL565 (talk) 15:27, 29 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The only ground is Wikipedia should never make any explicit claim which is actually and palpably false. Period. I fix what I can, but decrying me because I was not the only person fixing the "unreferenced BLP issue" but have only worked on a few thousand BLPs so far is not precisely going to impress me at all. I have made more than twenty times the number of edits you have made. I suggest that saying I should have made 100 times as many for you to accept my opinion and the opinions of all those who did act on the RfC is not proper. Cheers. Collect (talk) 15:32, 29 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Are you not going to read my earlier posts? Or are you going to continue to pound your chest saying "I'm right your wrong! I'm right your wrong!"? Please read my post again. I really want to work together to resolve this issue, but you need to try to understand the points I am making. TL565 (talk) 15:51, 29 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I am only saying read WP:CONSENSUS and stop yelling at me. Collect (talk) 16:05, 29 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I'm only going to say this one more time, please read my post above and respond to my points I have made. I am trying to find some common ground between us. I seriously want to work this out and don't want anymore problems, but please just answer what I have addressed above. TL565 (talk) 16:32, 29 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

(od) Last time: The purpose is to write useful encyclopedia articles. Encyclopedia articles which contain material which is palpably false in implication are not useful encyclopedia articles. This appears to be the very strong consensus at the RfC for officeholder infoboxes, and a likely consensus at the succession box RfC. Is this quite clear? Cheers. Collect (talk) 16:46, 29 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Yep, I see I'm talking to a brick wall here. I tried one last time to be nice and asked you to respond to specifically what I had said, but you were more interested in your own self righteousness to ever listen. You are what is wrong with Wikipedia. You obviously are not trying to resolve the issue. It's all about how you are right no matter what. I've asked you so many times, Do you not see the problem on how the articles stand now? I have provided many reasons for this and you ignored every single one of them and kept making other claims with no evidence instead of addressing them. I'm done with you. If you find somebody else who I can reasonably talk to, tell them to talk to me. TL565 (talk) 17:21, 29 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

WP:CONSENSUS is what is "right". Cheers. Collect (talk) 18:01, 29 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

You have been randomly selected to receive an invitation to participate in the request for comment on Talk:Robert Peter Gale. Should you wish to respond, your contribution to this discussion will be appreciated. For tips, please see Wikipedia:Requests for comment § Suggestions for responding. If you wish to change the frequency or topics of these notices, or do not wish to receive them any longer, please adjust your entries at WP:Feedback request service. — Legobot (talk) 00:00, 29 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Just wondering if you could clarify for me the difference between entries of "non-notables", many of which, but not all, haven't got secondary sourcing, on the List of beneficiaries of immigration/nationality-related United States Private Bills/Laws, to which you took exception, and the entries on the List of American police officers killed in the line of duty, almost all of which derive from the Officer Down website, and few of which will ever be stand-alone articles, although some have secondary sourcing. Thanks. Quis separabit? 19:27, 1 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I did not look at every single Wikipedia list - just this one. And Wikipedia requires entries to be sourced with reliable secondary sourcing, and to be about persons who are notable. Collect (talk) 23:59, 1 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for following the procedure on Baseball Bugs' request, made my job a whole lot easier! Regards, Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 00:54, 2 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Collect, rather than create a new section on the same page, a motion has been proposed on the Tea Party movement request in which you were named as a party. Regards, Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 01:14, 2 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Collect, I have closed and archived the amendment request regarding the Tea Party movement case in which you were named as a party. The Arbitration Committee resolved that:

For the Arbitration Committee, Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 07:59, 4 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

You have been randomly selected to receive an invitation to participate in the request for comment on Talk:Hoel. Should you wish to respond, your contribution to this discussion will be appreciated. For tips, please see Wikipedia:Requests for comment § Suggestions for responding. If you wish to change the frequency or topics of these notices, or do not wish to receive them any longer, please adjust your entries at WP:Feedback request service. — Legobot (talk) 00:00, 5 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for helping my student Shadowbolt7 with the text he put on the Prison-Industrial Complex page. It was a valuable learning experience for him. Profmwilliams (talk) 03:38, 5 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

You are welcome. Collect (talk) 11:43, 5 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

"In addition to supporting efforts to limit government spending in general, Koch's organizations Americans for Prosperity and the Cato Institute oppose public funding of public broadcasting, the arts, education, and scientific research." Please explain to me what you believe to be a "more modest edit," in your parlance. --The Cunctator (talk) 14:59, 8 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

"HuffPo" is editorial in nature. You use it to imply Koch opposes any public monies for the arts, education and research. The HuffPo "source" says absolutely nothing of the sort. Next is "canceradvocacy". It says nothing to support the claim that AFP and Cato "oppose funding for research" either. PBS? Nope either. AFP? At least it mentions AFP. Says absolutely noting about opposing all finding for art, education and research. In fact, not a single source I found supports the claims you tried making for them. "FierceGovernment" rails at the "Ryan Budget" but does not make any claim that it removed all funding for the arts, education and research at all. And it is not RS for anything in this case to begin with. Cato? At least it covers itself. Thought piece on the "militarization of science" it appears. Opposed to research funding? Not a bit. And not an "official position" of Cato either. How many more misused cited does one need to find before noting the claims are not supported by your laundry list of cites, many of which do not meet WP:RS. Cheers. Collect (talk) 16:15, 8 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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Weaving Spiders Come Not Here (talk) 23:37, 17 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The Mediation Committee has received a request for formal mediation of the dispute relating to "United States". As an editor concerned in this dispute, you are invited to participate in the mediation. Mediation is a voluntary process which resolves a dispute over article content by facilitation, consensus-building, and compromise among the involved editors. After reviewing the request page, the formal mediation policy, and the guide to formal mediation, please indicate in the "party agreement" section whether you agree to participate. Because requests must be responded to by the Mediation Committee within seven days, please respond to the request by 25 December 2014.

Sorry for the template. I noticed that you recently tried to {{ping}} someone as an addition or correction to a previous post you'd made. Thousands of editors think this works, but it doesn't. I'm on a quixotic quest to tell everyone I see doing this that pinging only works when you also add a new signature at the same time as the ping. See Wikipedia:Notifications if you're curious.

There. Two down, 9,998 to go. --Floquenbeam (talk) 18:23, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Argh -- for some reason a person told me it "pinged" me in the past -- but I had to turn on something in notifications. For some reason I had thought ATG had that turned on. That it requires a new sig was never brought to my attention before. Cheers. Collect (talk) 18:30, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

(Note: Per wp:CANVASSING I am "non-biasedly" advertising a topic for discussion by posting a notice on the ten most recent users who commented on the page in question's talkpage and also the ten most recent users who edited the article in question.)

Commentators continue to reference/allege Card's piece involving a fictional, future Obama's coup d'état by way of urban guirillas as racist (eg see here in Slate, 2013; here, HuffPo, 2013; here, Wired, 2014). Should our article mention this aspect of controversy with regard to the piece here: "Orson Scott Card#Politics"?

(Also see a 2013 blogpost by M Aspan citing this from Card in 2000 rgding allegedly non-racist use of nigga'.)

See discussion here: Talk:Orson Scott Card#RfC: Subject of blp racist?

--Hodgdon's secret garden (talk) 21:31, 19 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

(from various sites)

The New York Times:

An article last Sunday about the documentary maker Morgan Spurlock, who has a new film out on the boy band One Direction, misstated the subject of his 2012 movie “Mansome.” It is about male grooming, not Charles Manson. The article also misspelled the name of the production company of Simon Cowell, on whose “X Factor” talent competition show One Direction was created. The company is Syco, not Psycho.

The New York Times:

An obituary on Sept. 20 about Hiroshi Yamauchi, the longtime president of Nintendo, included a quotation from a 1988 New York Times article that inaccurately described the Nintendo video game Super Mario Bros. 2. The brothers Mario and Luigi, who appear in this and other Nintendo games, are plumbers, not janitors.

The New York Times:

An article on Monday about a recall election facing Colorado lawmakers who supported gun-control legislation referred incorrectly to one of the Republican challengers expected to face John Morse, the State Senate president, on the ballot. The candidate, Bernie Herpin, is a former city councilman, not an author of erotic novels. (Jaxine Bubis, a novelist turned politician, has dropped out of the race.)

The Huffington Post:

An earlier version of this story indicated that the Berlin Wall was built by Nazi Germany. In fact, it was built by the Communists during the Cold War.

Slate:

This review misspelled basically everyone’s name. It’s Hannah Horvath, not Hannah Hovrath; Marnie is played by Allison Williams, not Alison Williams; and Ray is played by Alex Karpovsky, not Zosia Mamet.

The Wall Street Journal:

A Bloody Mary recipe, which accompanied an Off Duty article in some editions on June 8 about the herb lovage, called for 12 ounces of vodka and 36 ounces of tomato juice. The recipe as printed incorrectly reversed the amounts, calling for 36 ounces of vodka and 12 ounces of tomato juice.(all from [49])

omg thanks for the link, this made my day. BRB directing East Germany to Nazi Germany Avono (talk) 10:43, 22 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

You have been randomly selected to receive an invitation to participate in the request for comment on Talk:Hedwig of Holstein. Should you wish to respond, your contribution to this discussion will be appreciated. For tips, please see Wikipedia:Requests for comment § Suggestions for responding. If you wish to change the frequency or topics of these notices, or do not wish to receive them any longer, please adjust your entries at WP:Feedback request service. — Legobot (talk) 00:01, 22 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Opinion

You previously voted here as a keep for an article [50]. It is up for AFD again [51]. I was wondering if you could look at the article again and vote in the New AFD here. The newer article has more information and better formats. Also if you could see any ways to improve the article it would be appreciated. Thank you. CrazyAces489 (talk) 03:03, 22 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

To you and yours

FWiW Bzuk (talk) 15:45, 22 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for all time you put in hard and unrewarded tasks.
I hope you enjoy this hollidays and I wish you a happy new 2015!
--Crystallizedcarbon (talk) 20:07, 23 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

You have been randomly selected to receive an invitation to participate in the request for comment on Talk:Deepak Chopra. Should you wish to respond, your contribution to this discussion will be appreciated. For tips, please see Wikipedia:Requests for comment § Suggestions for responding. If you wish to change the frequency or topics of these notices, or do not wish to receive them any longer, please adjust your entries at WP:Feedback request service. — Legobot (talk) 00:00, 28 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Collect. You seem to be edit warring on Breitbart (website). Could you please stop?- MrX 02:22, 28 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Mr X - did you miss the agreement to get the BLP issue out of the section by removing the name of a non-notable living person? Cheers. Collect (talk) 02:24, 28 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I guess so. Where is this agreement?- MrX 02:30, 28 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

It was about removing BLP as the issue - [52] was the proffered solution which I found reasonable. Unless you feel the name of the writer is important for readers? Collect (talk) 02:35, 28 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

No, that's not an "agreement". That's you agreeing with one other editor, and ignoring the advice of several other editors at WP:BLP/N#Breitbart (website). You are edit warring, and as it is you third revert in less than 24 hours, you are on the brink of crossing the 3RR bright-line.- MrX 02:41, 28 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Do you find the person to be notable or not? That is what counts at this point. If you find he is notable, I have some FL land to sell you <g>. Collect (talk) 02:46, 28 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Irrelevant. You were edit warring, and you seem to have ignored comments from several users in a discussion that you yourself started, simply because it didn't go your way. - MrX 03:13, 28 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The person is a living person. That is relevant. You are now pushing a dead horse. Which is also relevant. Cheers, for now. Collect (talk) 12:34, 28 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The request for formal mediation of the dispute concerning United States, in which you were listed as a party, has been accepted by the Mediation Committee. The case will be assigned to an active mediator within two weeks, and mediation proceedings should begin shortly thereafter. Proceedings will begin at the case information page, Wikipedia:Requests for mediation/United States, so please add this to your watchlist. Formal mediation is governed by the Mediation Committee and its Policy. The Policy, and especially the first two sections of the "Mediation" section, should be read if you have never participated in formal mediation. For a short guide to accepted cases, see the "Accepted requests" section of the Guide to formal mediation. You may also want to familiarise yourself with the internal Procedures of the Committee.

Dear Editor: I just made some additions to the article on Frank R. Wallace but I wasn't paying attention -- didn't realize that the citations to court cases I added were citations you had just taken out. Anyway, see my comments on the talk page for that article. Yours, Famspear (talk) 21:24, 29 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Please remove cites to primary sources. Collect (talk) 21:30, 29 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I appreciate your good faith edit at Michael Grimm. However, long standing consensus on inboxes and succession boxes has been to ignore geographic changes when considering redistricting. The article already says that Districts 11 and District 13 cover Staten Island, and were renumbered due to the 2010 apportionment. Please see the 2007 redistricting discussion at Wikipedia:WikiProject Succession Box Standardization. The articles for Charles B. Rangle and Yvette Clark already list Grimm as a predecessor/successor, so to change Grimm's article would cause a chain reaction requiring changes to several hundred of articles. If you feel this issues should be revised, I encourage you to take it up at WikiProject U.S. Congress.DCmacnut<> 14:48, 31 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I suggest you read Template:Infobox officeholder and note that what you assert to be "long standing consensus" was, in fact, changed. [53] Consensus is reasonably clear that successor or predecessor should not be used in infoboxes where significant redistricting has taken place. Cheers. Collect (talk) 14:53, 31 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion you reference on Michael Grimm is a specific case, and says that such usage should be on a case by case basis. I was not aware of the new language in the officeholder inbox, but the fact remains that there are hundreds of articles that already adhere to the "ignore geography" consensus. If I had participated in the Grimm discussion, I would have opposed the change. The debate over the Michigan reps at the link I provided came to a decidedly different conclusion. I will not make reverts to the Grimm article on this matter, but I do not believe consensus exists broadly in all cases on this matter. This issue comes up every time a state reapportions its districts, so the debate will continue.DCmacnut<> 15:09, 31 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Very few examples are as extreme as the Grimm one where there was no overlap -- note that the federal government does not use the congressional district numbers - they exist solely for convenience of the states for election purposes. Collect (talk) 15:19, 31 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The Official Congressional Directory does, in fact, use district numbers, though not to the extent that Wikipedia does when a member's service overlaps reapportionment. [54] One of the major concerns about this approach was that it required original research on the part of Wikipedia editors to determine whether or not to use "redistricted". As you say, the New York Times ignores district numbers in its coverage, and cases like Grimm are rare, so I would say that is a reliable source that resolves that concern for New York districts. But I fear a slippery slope if we open the door wider and start letting editors skirt the WP:NOR issue. The original decision to stick with district numbers was a simple, yet albeit ugly, way of avoid the issue altogether.DCmacnut<> 15:27, 31 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

It does not require any "original research" when such sources as the NYT use this standard when saying predecessor or successor. The claim that Rangel "succeeded" Grimm was nicely risible - and where a result is risible, it can not be called encyclopedic. Collect (talk) 15:33, 31 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Warning (again)

It doesn't matter if you're right (and you may very well be), but please stop edit warring over this trivial content. It's disruptive.- MrX 18:36, 31 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for once again templating a regular. It shows your infinite wisdom to insist that Charles Rangel is now taking the place of Michael Grimm when the template talk page discussion and RfC reached the opposite conclusion. Cheers. And do NOT template me again in this manner. Short polite notes are how adults communicate. Collect (talk) 18:42, 31 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Begging your pardon Collect, but that wasn't a template, unless you mean the 30 pixel-wide hand. I have no interest in this dispute. My previous attempts to reason with you to get you to stop edit warring accross multiple (politics) articles have obviously been for naught, so if you prefer, I will just let WP:3RR/N sort it out next time. Please advise.- MrX 18:49, 31 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Once you use the "stop sign" it is "templating." I suggest you should rethink doing so in future. Try a polite "did you count your reverts?" type message - and note that reverting an IP is generally not counted -- as it is quite possible the IP is simply a logged-out person who has already done his own reverts. Have a nice day. Collect (talk) 18:54, 31 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

You have obviously been warned enough about edit warring in the past, and your responses have frequently been dismissive. I'm not required to warn experienced editors about what they already know (see #Notice of Edit warring noticeboard discussion), so I won't bother warning you again.- MrX 19:04, 31 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Um -- perhaps you would like a review of my "blocks" including those where an admin was bullied into the act, and one where the admin was roundly denounced for a "bad block" and one where an admin was later desysopped for such acts? I stand by my most notorious positions -- "Joe the Plumber" should not have "illegal plumber" or "plumber's ass" as his occupation, and so on. If you would like to examine any of my edits do so - but where you are absolutely required to give a notice, you can not ignore that stricture. We made a simple request of you, and you seem to regard this talk page as your own personal battlefield - which it damn well is not. Cheers and Happy New Year. Collect (talk) 19:13, 31 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

TY Collect (talk) 13:23, 1 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Excluding a revert of an IP and a minor revert, you are now at 4RR in under 24 hours on the Scalise article. You might wish to consider stepping away for a day or so as a result. Happy New Year! Collect (talk) 02:50, 1 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Collect: I certainly did not intend to edit war, and I don't think I have crossed 3RR, but I may have missed something. Would you be so kind as to provide diffs to four reverts that I have made in a 24 hour period? Many thanks.- MrX 03:09, 1 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

1. [55] 16:59 et seq
2. [56] 19:40
3. [57] 20:08 et seq
4. [58] 21:02
5. [59] 23:40

Seems to add up to 4RR in under 7 hours. And your edit [60] at 15:38 on 30 Dec makes 5RR in 32 hours. I did not count your edits which did not affect prior recent edits. Cheers. Collect (talk) 12:31, 1 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Are you serious Collect?

1. Yes, this is a revert, although not a wholesale one.
2. This is adding new content (sources), not reverting. However, you did subsequently revert my edit here.
3. This one is especially absurd. I corrected a title in a cite, change the date format on cites that I previously added, and I added information to the cites that I previously added.
4. Again, this is adding new content. Why would you ever think this a revert?
5. This trivial change of your grammar error from "...he had spoken at a white supremacist group founded leader David Duke." to "...he had spoken at a white supremacist group founded by David Duke.", in practice this would not count as a revert, and it certainly isn't edit warring.

I'm deeply troubled that you would raise this issue with me. Essentially, there is one revert in the diffs you listed. I suspect that you wish this to have a chilling effect to keep me from editing Mr. Scalise's biography. Or perhaps it is meant to teach me a lesson for warning you of your own unambiguous edit warring. In either case, I believe it's petty and vexatious, and indicative of an obvious WP:BATTLEFIELD mentality that I've observed in you for several years.

Collect, please consider this a good faith warning to stop this nonsense and start editing collaboratively; stop edit warring; and stop twisting policies and wikilawyering to suit whatever personal agenda you have. If you continue in this vein, I will have no choice but to escalate these issues, as I believe they are ultimately harmful to the project. Thank you.- MrX 13:20, 1 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I was tripped once on a "one letter change" and if you read WP:EW it does indeed say that even a single letter may be counted as a "revert". Cheers -- Hold yourself to the same standards to which you wish to hold others. Meanwhile I suggest that you recognize that my note was polite and not a template - which I trust you noted but forgot to mention. Collect (talk) 13:25, 1 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I do appreciate your polite warning, however, you have not addressed the substance of my rebuttal to your accusation. If we have admins who are blocking people for changing one letter (assuming it doesn't materially change meaning), then that's a pretty clear abuse of their authority and a disregard for the purpose of WP:EW which is to encourage collaborative editing and discourage disruption.

If you sincerely believe that I was edit warring, I implore you to open a case at WP:EW/N or WP:ANI, because if my edits on Steve Scalise are actually considered edit warring, then I will no longer be contributing to this project. Best.- MrX 13:34, 1 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Dear Collect,
HAPPY NEW YEAR Hoping 2015 will be a great year for you! Thank you for your contributions!
From a fellow editor,
--FWiW Bzuk (talk)

This message promotes WikiLove. Originally created by Nahnah4 (see "invisible note").

And from me also to you and yours! Collect (talk) 21:25, 1 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

You have been randomly selected to receive an invitation to participate in the request for comment on Talk:Fredrick Brennan. Should you wish to respond, your contribution to this discussion will be appreciated. For tips, please see Wikipedia:Requests for comment § Suggestions for responding. If you wish to change the frequency or topics of these notices, or do not wish to receive them any longer, please adjust your entries at WP:Feedback request service. — Legobot (talk) 00:00, 3 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for sticking up for me in the ARE case that was brought RIGHT as I left for the holidays, and at some related discussion pages. I'd like to think I would have been given the chance to defend myself at length after the holiday, if nobody had spoken for me, but I'm not real super confident about it :|

Christmas cookies for you! Centrify (f / k / a FCAYS) (talk) (contribs) 18:29, 6 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

You're welcome! Collect (talk) 18:33, 6 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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You previously voted, opined, commented, or otherwise took part, at Template talk:Succession box#RfC. Please see a related discussion at Template talk:Infobox officeholder#RfC Congressmen's tenures in infobox. Kraxler (talk) 15:11, 9 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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I've agreed to mediate this case and we are ready to begin. Please join on the case talk page Wikipedia talk:Requests for mediation/United States. Sunray (talk) 23:24, 12 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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thanks for the warning I thought it had to be 6 for some reason, can't self revert because some one has already done it but thanks for the heads up if I get banned that would be ironic as I am trying to point out censorship and I am what I said in the title, its just I could not think of any other way to communicate that the koch's are repeatedly being edited by all sides. I have tried NOT to express my opinion of them, my personal views are more with anarcho-syndaclist but that not the point - its about pointing towards the censorship happening around them from all sides - which is why i carefully supplied a reference to what i said.

next time you use BLP try putting it in as WP:BLP - as soon as i saw the connection at the top of the page and then read it - Light bulb moment and a huge chunk of aha - now I understand!!! X-mass (talk) 18:46, 16 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

No problem- I try to avoid the "drama boards" on Wikipedia as too many of their denizens seem lacking in common sense <g>. Collect (talk) 19:32, 16 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The Mediation Committee has received a request for formal mediation of the dispute relating to "America: Imagine the World Without Her". As an editor concerned in this dispute, you are invited to participate in the mediation. Mediation is a voluntary process which resolves a dispute over article content by facilitation, consensus-building, and compromise among the involved editors. After reviewing the request page, the formal mediation policy, and the guide to formal mediation, please indicate in the "party agreement" section whether you agree to participate. Because requests must be responded to by the Mediation Committee within seven days, please respond to the request by 24 January 2015.

I hope you will consider changing your vote. I reworded my questions to based on your comments and others. I hope they better capture what is at dispute. If not, I would be willing to work to capture what is at dispute or you could add comments on what is at dispute yourself. In either case, I hope you will consider accepting.Casprings (talk) 15:29, 18 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

As you did not remove the first question - which is what was already decided by the RfC, I pass. Mediation can not be used to alter a consensus already properly arrived at. Mediation is for disputes which normal processes were unable to resolve - the RfC was, in fact, a successful application per WP:CONSENSUS. Collect (talk) 16:04, 18 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

While I do agree that their is consensus that it is WP:rs for its own viewpoints, I disagree there is consensus for including material sources by it. In cases where it is used to cite fact, there isn't consensus over rather it is WP:rs. In cases where it is used to cite its own opinion, there isn't consensus on the WP:weight of those opionions. In any case, I hope you do reconsider. Have a good day.Casprings (talk) 18:56, 18 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Then simply remove question 1 - as placed it is quite simply the sort of question mediation is not supposed to handle - mediation does not try to change consensus already reached. Collect (talk) 19:31, 18 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

(series including blatant misuse of this talk page removed)

• • Please end this misuse of my talk page. And your implicit accusation that I "drummed up a few people" is a personal attack and apparent claim of a CANVASS violation which is likely actionable at AN/I. You bolded the wrong part of an NYB post: accurate information, at least in that narrow sense.
  • Please also read the Microsoft anecdote[61]: they gave me a technically correct but completely useless answer. Your position would say Wikipedia should give such "technically correct" answers to readers. I disagree. And the fact that a person does not correct all of the roughly one hundred total articles (note - the issue arises when a state gains or loses seats, and not otherwise as a rule - it does not occur for every single redistricted district, as most such are fine tuning within a state - it is only when a new district is added, or , more notably, when one is lost by a state, that the information is useless to readers)) is exceedingly worthless as an argument. I suggest "lo alecha hamlacha ligmor" would be a useful adage for you to learn. Collect (talk) 13:59, 20 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

...and I thought about sending you a pict of my donkeys for the "Smart Ass" Award, <---(PS:affectionate humor) but the camel picture won hands down for the Camel Caravan of News which I actually had to look up. I am happy to say, you clearly win the "I out-old-you" Award. --Atsme☯^Consult 01:23, 24 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

FYI, I've cited a diff of your comment, at [62].

Thanks for your thoughtful words,

— Cirt (talk) 07:40, 24 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Surely you remember that annoying case of sockpuppetry and you were one of those affected and who helped to pindown the situation. So perhaps you are interested on be informed and/or share your opinion on this new investigation --ClaudioSantos¿? 16:15, 24 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

It is true but irrelevant that the Nobel Peace Prize is a major well-documented award. The process of nominations for the Nobel Peace Prize is secretive and murky, and a statement that someone was nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize may be difficult to source and may be self-serving. Robert McClenon (talk) 17:53, 24 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

And all "awards" may also be "self-serving" - that it is not "negative information" does not prevent it being a "contentious claim" under WP:BLP which was the point being made. Thus the use here is, indeed, relevant to the discussion. Cheers. Collect (talk) 21:47, 24 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

At the top of your user page, you write about a decision by ArbCom. It would be useful if you dated that, so readers know when the decision took place. Even more important and useful would be a link to the decision. As a passerby I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Wikipedia is such a big place with so many users and decisions being made all the time... --82.136.210.153 (talk) 14:18, 28 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I meant the User page, but thanks for adding the link (on the Talk page). --82.136.210.153 (talk) 17:16, 28 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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[63] Did you mean to put your comment at the top? I presume your comment supports deletion? Regards, WCM_email 14:59, 31 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I thought I was clear - and I thunk it was last entry <g>. Collect (talk) 15:03, 31 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I just read through the ARB stuff, and ANI stuff, and yada yada. I feel your pain. What I still don't quite understand is the fact that content is forsaken and childish misbehavior takes center stage - conduct, not content. They've got it all backwards. I hear you, and appreciate your position. Who's the funniest clown in town?? The list is far too long. Atsme☯^Consult 02:34, 1 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I think reception and other sections on BLPs violate NPOV and become magnets for POV pushers. And last year was a watershed moement when a German Court ruled that Wikipedia is liable for the contents of Wikipedia articles even if the material is sourced. WP:BLP is not as strict as it should be, but the common editor does not understand sources whenever they label something "a reliable source" because of its publisher. There is nothing professional or proper about some of the material being pushed, but they also will not relent because their is no clear policy against it. Controversial figures certainly are the targets of such attacks because "it exists", but critical thinking, reason and professionalism seem to be foreign concepts for some. A new essay or BLP clause might need to be created do deal with the deluge of issues and to appropriately respond to it. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 15:35, 1 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I fully agree. Unfortunately when I demur on articles, I routinely get accused of "gaming the system" and of holding biases I quite lack. I did write WP:PIECE but the ones who would most benefit from it seem to prefer the status quo <g>. Collect (talk) 15:38, 1 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

So true. I quite disagree that a book is a "reliable source" for labeling a person a bigot when it gives less then a sentence and messed up its quote. More so, it is not discussed in the actual text, but is a passing and trivial mention in an introduction by the authors and no where else. Books are not infallible, Arming America for instance, but opinions and passing mentions giving no context should not be used at all. Though dismissing such nonsense often results in attracting more of the same ilk like moths to a flame. What results is a bunch of angry persons who do not understand or attempt to shout you down and demoralize good editors. That is clearly toxic. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 16:06, 1 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I am watching the Kagan issue play out because it has parallels to the current issue of debate on Emerson - where a trivial mention in passing is being used in the same method. Not sure how you manage to stand up to all this drama. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 06:13, 2 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I am quite used to being stalked, and I ran the gauntlet of a votestacked RfC/U some time back. You might look at my sandbox <g>, and read User:Collect/BLP to see just why I stick around. Cheers. Collect (talk) 12:45, 2 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Eck - I dislike how they say it is censorship when something horrid and weakly sourced is removed per BLP. Then Wikipedia goes from being an encyclopedia to a bathroom stall where all professional and ethical standards are thrown out the window because it is verifiable that someone else wrote something. Verifiability and veracity for BLPs need to be much higher than other articles, but I've got a crash course in how bad BLPs are in the last week or so. Most of them are complete garbage penned by those who find sensational news and tack them on Wikipedia. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 15:32, 3 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

ChrisGualtieri Yep - I am in several discussions right now which I think you might find "interesting" (including Bill Cosby), as well as the Kagan ones and the associated AN/I discussions. Feel free to stalk <g>. Collect (talk) 14:18, 4 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

You have a banner: "Well-meaning editors: Do not edit comments from others on this page. Thank you." Any editor who edits comments by others on a third party's talk page is either an extreme newbie or, more likely, has a strange concept of well-meaning. Robert McClenon (talk) 23:23, 3 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

To any and all lurkers:

How would one normally interpret a post such as:

There's no question that there are people that aren't Jewish that are associated with the Pro-Israel Lobby.The blog by self-identified progressive Jews might not be an opinion piece, but it did mention the two points in the same article. I do see xxx's point about the possible implication of "divided loyality". On the other hand, there are plenty of politicians (Jews among them) that present themselves as being loyal to the USA and pro-Israel without worrying about that presenting a possible COI, emphasizing that Israel is "the only democracy in the Middle East", etc.

Many thanks for all responses. Collect (talk) 23:25, 3 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Hello! You have been randomly selected to receive an invitation to participate in the request for comment on Talk:Robert Kagan. Should you wish to respond, your contribution to this discussion will be appreciated.

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Forget Kagan - Robert Sears (physician) is a bigger issue with poor sources and synth being used to make a person responsible for an epidemic sourced to blogs and conjecture. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 05:38, 5 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

You are now on the verge of 3RR, at the Sears article. Friendly notice! Nomoskedasticity (talk) 12:35, 5 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Aim is to obey BLP -- categorizing a person without a reliable source making the claim is per se a violation of WP:BLP. Cheers. Collect (talk) 12:37, 5 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

It's evident that you didn't look for a source before proclaiming that there wasn't one. Nomoskedasticity (talk) 12:39, 5 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

We need a claim of fact from strong reliable sources before we go labelling folks. Cheers. Collect (talk) 12:42, 5 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Collect is correct. It is a BLP issue to label the subject based on the personal opinions of others despite the subject being clearly in support of vaccines. Sears disagrees on the time table of some vaccines, but his book and words clearly support the MMR vaccine on the normal CDC schedule. This alone says Sears is not anti-vax. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 14:30, 5 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Hey Collect -- I get the impression that this is about me. Is that right? It seems very much like a violation of WP:HOUND, complete with personal attacks. And the rest of the sub-page does the same thing about other editors, it seems. Could you please stop? And delete the sub-page? Thanks! Nomoskedasticity (talk) 15:08, 6 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I do not mention your name once. I do not regard anything on that page as a personal attack,but as a favour to you for asking nicely, I shall blank all your diffs. Would you like User:Collect/BLP also blanked? That was one where an admin specified in the past that it was fully compliant with all policies and guidelines, but I will blank it as well if you desire. Cheers. Collect (talk) 15:12, 6 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

But is it designed for keeping track of edits by me and other editors? It sure looks like it. And the reason to delete it isn't that I asked nicely but because it is a violation of WP:HOUND. Nomoskedasticity (talk) 15:16, 6 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

It was in parallel to User:Collect/BLP covering various concerns and not mentioning any editor by name. The material has now been deleted. It was not done to reduce your enjoyment of Wikipedia nor to impede your edits, nor do I follow you around to respond to your edits. I trust you do not follow my edits, of course. WP:HOUND:Wikihounding is the singling out of one or more editors, and joining discussions on multiple pages or topics they may edit or multiple debates where they contribute, in order to repeatedly confront or inhibit their work. Cheers. Collect (talk) 15:18, 6 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Per WP:TPO, do not alter the posts of other editors. Nomoskedasticity (talk) 15:54, 7 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Unfortunately your removal of a post to which I was replying also made my post appear quite odd. Next time do not be so quick about assertions about other editors lest you be called out for a false claim about them. Cheers. Collect (talk) 15:55, 7 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I redacted it once I noticed the problem. Any subsequent "oddness" in your own post is entirely your fault. Why did you restore it, exactly? Nomoskedasticity (talk) 16:03, 7 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

My post would have looked like the ravings of a lunatic absent the anteceding post. Cheers. Collect (talk) 18:26, 7 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

No, your post was responding to a deleted post. You shouldn't have restored it or commented on it. You should have taken the high road and ignored the matter. By restoring a deleted comment, which was clearly a "misunderstanding" (edit summary), you were trying to make Nomo look bad and pick a fight. That's very bad form. -- Brangifer (talk) 21:03, 7 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I was in an Edit Conflict - and my comment was on point. I would never try to make Nomo look bad. Cheers. Collect (talk) 21:07, 7 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Notification of complaint filed at WP:AE about your editing at the above-mentioned BLP complaint.--Ubikwit ^連絡 _{見学/迷惑} 17:50, 7 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Did you have a specific reason for posting to my talk page? Were you commenting on the post by Ubikwit (who seems to have a deep grudge against you, probably because you have pushed back on him) to WP:ANI or to WP:AE, or on the post by Nomoskedac? I am going to have to recuse from the Ubikwit post because I am not neutral, but I don't think that was what you meant. Robert McClenon (talk) 19:08, 7 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

It was a "head's up" noting your posts at WP:AN/I etc. The "anti-Semitic" post only shows the carelessness of people who wish to attack me <g>, but the AE action seems precisely something which would be of interest to you, I would think, and where your neutrality would be shown by your objectivity. And curiously enough you were the one who had posted the "DS warning" on my talk page, so you might be able then to elucidate whether violations of WP:BLPCAT were envisioned to be protected by that warning. Thanks. Collect (talk) 19:21, 7 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I will continue to follow. I will have to recuse from any ArbCom clerk role if any of these issues go to arbitration. I hope that all of these issues can be resolved without arbitration, but some editors are stubborn. Robert McClenon (talk) 20:49, 7 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I doubt it will get that far - WP:BLPCAT is too darn clear. One admin thinks it is "tendentious" to follow WP:BLP which I find to be a very odd position for any admin to take. Collect (talk) 20:57, 7 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

HJM directed Ubikwit ... to WP:AN/I. I believe the analogy is Groundhog Day (film). Collect (talk) 20:59, 7 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Hello! You have been randomly selected to receive an invitation to participate in the request for comment on Talk:List of American federal politicans convicted of crimes. Should you wish to respond, your contribution to this discussion will be appreciated.

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Why the Administrator allows that? they just delete that and report the users, Why the British are removing a FACT from the article?? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pep2co (talk • contribs) 17:09, 10 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The proper course is set out at WP:CONSENSUS - if you wish an edit on an article, and others disagree, then you must get others to agree with your position - not simply keep making the same edit. You should also read WP:RFC to se one manner of "dispute resolution" which is formally set up. Try looking at some which have been used on other articles and I think you will get an idea of how this process works. It is far from perfect, but can work out if everyone follows the rules. Cheers. Collect (talk) 18:19, 10 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Gibraltar#Governance The United Nations Committee on Decolonization includes Gibraltar on the United Nations list of Non-Self-Governing Territories.[39] Gibraltar has been on the list since December 1946.[40]

It has always been in the article. Regards, WCM_email 18:30, 10 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I was trying to explain to that editor how the proper process works on WP - I did not actually wish to get involved in the eternal Gibraltar argument <g>. Collect (talk) 18:37, 10 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

No worries. Regards from an EVIL FACT REMOVING BRITISH EDITOR, WCM_email 18:54, 10 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Happy Malvinas Day! <+g> Collect (talk) 18:57, 10 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I very much appreciate and admire your neutral mind, Cpt. Bob, but this Clarabelle has a question for you....

As a writer for longer than I care to remember, my first thoughts are always "Did I send my quarterly payment for my E&O policy?" I let it expire last year thinking I didn't need it any longer. Huh? Anyway, I cringe when I hear terms like "conspiracy theorist", "quack", etc. particularly as it applies to professional people who can afford defamation attorneys and drool over E&O policies. WP:BLP clearly states strict adherence to US Laws, right? That's what jumps out at me most. What about the laws in other countries? We know US laws are quite lenient with regards to our 1st Amendment right to freedom of expression....UNLESS....and it's the "unless" that troubles me, so I've provided some links to a couple of those "unlesses" in the US and abroad since Wiki is world-wide.

1. [64] (excerpt) "It took me about five minutes to learn that multiple courts in multiple states in multiple decades have found that calling someone a 'quack' is protected opinion and not subject to a defamation suit.....UNLESS: In the rare cases where courts have not protected terms like 'quack,' they were used in a context specifically suggesting untrue facts. See, e.g., Nasr v. Connecticut General Life Insurance Company, 632 F.Supp.1024 (E.D. IL 1986) (though calling a doctor a 'quack' has been found to be protected opinion, when used in manner suggesting false underlying facts, it was actionable)."
2. [65] German court rules that Wikipedia is liable for contents of Wikipedia articles.
3. [66] Whether right or wrong, one still has to defend a defamation suit.

So why are we seeing "pods" of editors fighting against NPOV while insisting on maintaining attack pages and coatracks? I wonder if they've ever actually read a hard cover Encyclopedia Britannica. Atsme☯^Consult 00:14, 11 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The Electronic Frontier Foundation will theoretically protect editors. I would point out, moreover, that lawsuits have been filed against Wikipedia editors in the past - notably see Talk:Yank_Barry/Archive_5#Lawsuit_against_WMF_in_the_article? which disappeared -- but no one knows for certain how a court would rule. Collect (talk) 00:25, 11 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

You have made three reverts at Jeb Bush. You seem very determined to provide a lot of explanations for Bush publishing massive amounts of email correspondence, but I suggest slowing down.- MrX 00:20, 11 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

And note the WP:BLP/N section thereon. And the explanation is from the horridly POV Christian Science Monitor - and you are the very first editor who has seemed to call them POV. Cheers. Collect (talk) 00:25, 11 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Never underestimate the power of inertia on Wikipedia

Attribute as needed <g> Collect (talk) 21:10, 10 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Not sure exactly what you mean by that, but okay. — Cirt (talk) 02:45, 11 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Joci causa - it appears that trying to get any changes done on Wikipedia takes aeons. Collect (talk) 13:10, 11 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Not to make too big a deal about it (which is why I'm dropping you this note here, not there), but if it's not BLP compliant, you probably don't want to quote it on ANI. Guettarda (talk) 21:13, 11 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

It mentions no names at all. Hard to see how it could be more BLP compliant - the aim is to show that there are, indeed, editors for who BLP is a minor annoyance in the path to making sure readers know how evil a living person is, and to ask the reader to follow that policy. . Collect (talk) 21:31, 11 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry if I wasn't clear - I was talking about your quote from the sourcewatch article about Drudge. Guettarda (talk) 21:50, 11 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Sure. Collect (talk) 22:03, 11 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Collect. Now that all the discussion about the controversy page has died down, I've sort of been poking around for someone that may have an interest in working out the regular Heather Bresch page so it provides a more complete bio. Usually I bring articles where I have a COI up to the GA rank, while following the Bright Line, by offering content for consideration. You came to mind because you are active on BLPN and I don't think I've bugged you in a while. I try to spread myself around sort of speak, so I'm not a pest to any one editor.

If you have an interest in chipping in, I've submitted a short bit of content regarding her start at Mylan here and your input would be welcome. CorporateM (Talk) 23:40, 12 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Collect. I noticed that you commented on the Request for Arbitration Amendment request that I initiated. In your comment, you wrote "Too many editors seem to view Wikipedia as a place to get rid of opponents (Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Steeletrap with argumentation seems a fair representation of such)." Your comment, visible to the Arbitration Committee and the community in general, makes an indisputable, albeit indirect, implication that I am trying to "get rid of opponents". As far as I understand, escalating issue about violations of policy is not the same thing as trying to get rid of opponents. As to specifics, although I am on an entirely different part of the ideological/political spectrum as Arzel, I have never considered him as an opponent. I have only asked that he comment on content, not contributors. There is ample evidence that I collaborate quite effectively with editors with conservative viewpoints; editors like Capitalismojo, Gaijin42, C.Fredkin, Scalhotrod, Malerooster, and RightCowLeftCoast. Evidence of this can be found on my talk page, the Political activities of the Koch Brothers talk page, the Steve Scalise talk page, and as recently as a couple of days ago on the Jeb Bush talk page. It is also evident in my thanks log.

As concerns Steeletrap, I am probably in a very similar part of the ideological/political spectrum as her, so to suggest that she is an opponent is risible. I just don't like to see sockpuppetry used to attack other editors who contribute vastly to this project. As far as I know, Steeletrap and I don't routinely edit the same articles, at least not at the same time. Notably, I watch Rand Paul, and as recently as yesterday, I warned an editor who had reverted one of Steeletrap's edits—hardly the action of an opponent.

While it's not surprising that you would show up at Arbcom about an issue that doesn't directly involve you (again), I am sincerely troubled that you would use it as soapbox for disparaging my intentions, especially since that is the same reason why opened the amendment request about Arzel. I am appealing to your sense of decency and discretion, and requesting that you retract your comment, or substantiate it with evidence that would convince a reasonable person that I am indeed trying to get rid of opponents. I will leave it to your judgement whether you think an apology would also be appropriate.

Thank you.- MrX 14:56, 13 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]