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Czech Republic Start‑class High‑importance

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Poland Start‑class High‑importance

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Isn't there some myth about an old man who lives at the top? Can anyone fill me in on this? - TheMightyQuill 23:53, 19 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know about Sněžka in particular, but the whole Krkonoše mountain range has an old man guardian spirit, Krakonoš, and since Sněžka is the highest mountain of the range, I suppose it would feature in the lore. He's definitely not named after the mountain, though. :-) 84.242.86.47 18:53, 20 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps Rubezahl is the figure in discussion here?--Agrofe 14:05, 21 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Or maybe the Polish version Liczyrzepa? Rübezahl (talk) 15:09, 2 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sněžka-Śnieżka is a rather odd name in English, actually not in English, but both in Czech and Polish, two Slavic languages which only since 1945 are spoken by locals there, after the expulsion of the Germans living on both sides, in Sudetenland and Silesia. On the other hand, Schneekoppe is established in international use for centuries, as e.g. proven by John Quincy Adams in his 1804 report.

Schneekoppe is anything but forgotten in modern day English use: In post-1990 Google books in English (requiring "mountain"), one yields these hits:

• Śnieżka 0
• Sniezka 29
• Sněžka 1
• Snezka 18
• Schneekoppe 35

Between the wars, with the new state of Czechoslovakia just having gained access to the Western side, but Poland still being far away, the hits are as follows:

• Śnieżka 0
• Sniezka 0
• Sněžka 0
• Snezka 4
• Schneekoppe 54

So, it is safe to say that in literature, Schneekoppe was almost exclusive common English use before 1945, and it is still the most common name (and by far the easiest to spell, I dare to say).

In general Google internet search, the clumsy double naming yields under "Sněžka-Śnieżka" +mountain -wiki -wikipedia under 300 hits Outside Wikipedia, while the three languages (with or without diacritics) are roughly tied in the 10,000 - 20,000 range.-- Matthead  DisOuß   09:10, 28 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Oppose-guidelines use local names if available. Furthermore this isn't a German wikipedia Matthead. Besides english also Uses Snezka far more then Germanised version[1]246 results. The above results by Matthead are manipulated-if you click them you will see he used the combination of certain words with the names, which limited the results and missed several without the combination--Molobo (talk) 09:55, 28 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Dear Molobo, do I detect bad faith here? I did not manipulate, I quite openly stated that I limited my searches to post-1990 books which include "mountain" to enforce English. Regarding the "Germanised version" (do clocks run backwards where you come from?), your link to Polish books.google.pl yields 793 dotyczących schneekoppe compared to 247 dotyczących snezka for Czech and 409 dotyczących sniezka or 465 dotyczących Śnieżka in Polish - including "autorstwa Marianna Śnieżka". Polish books using a German name rather than the local Czech one or the brandnew Polish one is quite funny, isn't it? Molobo, if you read WP:NCGN, you may find that "we recommend Encyclopedia Britannica, Columbia Encyclopedia, Encarta, ... Consult Google Scholar and Google Book". Now, EB: Snezka (in Sudeten, Giant Mountains, Relief) and sniezka in Geography Columbia Encyclopedia: Snĕžka (Ger. Schneekoppe, Pol. Śnieźka) in Krkonoše, MS Encarta Sněžka (in Sudety and Czech Republic) while Śnieżka is unknown. Arccording to these three, the double naming must be dropped in favour of the Czech naming. Google Scholar does not make much difference in regard to diacritics (same or similar results), and yields Sněžka 108, Śnieżka 200, Schneekoppe 393 in total, and in English Sněžka +peak 28, Śnieżka +peak 32, Schneekoppe +peak 50. Thus, among scholars, the neutral Schneekoppe equals or betters both local names combined. Ceterum censo: Śnieżka has to get removed from the English naming. -- Matthead  DisOuß   13:35, 31 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Strong oppose, Schneekoppe, oh man you must be kidding all the time. ≈Tulkolahten≈^≈talk≈ 10:10, 28 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Oh yes I found it quite amusing myself also. However let's focus on facts shall we ? The searches by Matthead are for combination of the words he used with other words. This gives false results as for instance it misses Snezka peak, Snezka alone and so on and on. Furthermore we know that best known version of local name should be used.--Molobo (talk) 10:14, 28 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

See below, common English, not local hieroyglyphs. Besides, Snezka peak 31 vs. 278 Schneekoppe peak, you are digging yourself a hole.-- Matthead  DisOuß   13:35, 31 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Oppose. Nice try Matthead. However, this is not German Wikipedia; this is not a historical issue. We know Snezka lie in historical Sudetenland, or geographically in the Sudetes but nowadays it lies between the sovereign nations of Poland and the Czech Republic. In geographical issues WP strongly stands behind local naming, if it is not a strong use of other name in English. So I oppose per current local names, although I think Schneekoppe is damn sexy name :). Hey Matthead, how about moving Liberec to Reichenberg? - Darwinek (talk) 10:21, 28 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You can leave the city in place, but in Google Books, since 1990 and in connection with "+city" (yup, English use, and no authors), Reichenberg beats Liberec about 250 to 150, with some having both. And no, I doubt other de:Reichenberg (Begriffsklärung) places are nearly as well-known, or considered a city. Any other suggestions, while we are at it? Many of the Slavic namings made up after wars lose out to older ones established in English(!) use. Damn stubborn, those Anglo-Saxons. Many Germans though, politically overcorrect, echo anything foreign, of course. They adopted verbal cannibalism, eating "Hamburger". -- Matthead  DisOuß   13:35, 31 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Strong oppose. Good for 1911 Britannica edition, but now it's almost 100 years later. Local names should prevail, not historical ones. Just a rough assessment: Sněžka and Śnieżka searched in English, both separately, give 40000 Ghits in total, from which about 25000 for Sněžka as opposed to 6800 to Schneekoppe and I'm not counting versions without diacritics. MarkBA ^t/c/@ 16:06, 28 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It is the common English name that needs to prevail in English Wikipedia, not "local names" in foreign languages. Else, we would call other mountains on international borders 乔戈里峰-کے ٹو and Cervino-ds'Horu-Mont Cervin-Matterhorn. Schneekoppe was established in English much longer ago than the names of these two mountains. Okay, so you want to use plain Google in English rather than Google Books, getting (diacritics don't make much of a difference here) Sněžka 27k, Śnieżka 17k, Schneekoppe 7k. How about enforcing English, and excluding the wiki-mirrors with "+peak -wiki -wikipedia", and the native domains with "-site:.cz -site:.pl -site:.de"? This reduces the results to: Sněžka 887, Śnieżka 1,070, Schneekoppe 261. Among those hits are probably still many local travel agencies using dot.com sites. The surprising result is that the presumed extinct "Schneekoppe" still has that many hits. Quite interesting is that the local Czech skilift website "German" version uses Sneekoppe /Sněžka. The Polish Observatorium knows quite well German history, but uses ahistoric Polish naming in English -- Matthead  DisOuß   13:35, 31 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Strong sup....wait, this is not Unencyclopedia? Oppose, no brainer.Oh, and the commons:Category:Schneekoppe needs to be renamed to reflect the consensus here. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 16:27, 28 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Dear Mr. no brainer, how about renaming the two year old commons:Category:Sniezka first? And Piotrus, it seems you missed that one somehow, surely you don't want to neglect the Czech part of "the consensus here"? -- Matthead  DisOuß   13:35, 31 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Oppose. - TheMightyQuill (talk) 23:25, 1 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose, whilst I'd prefer a Czech name for this, the mountain being far more significant to Czechs then Poles, I am very satisfied with the current Czech-Polish compromise. German doesn't even enter the equation here. Policy states that a COMMON English name takes precedence, however Schwepps or whatever it was is not common, nor English. So a local language is used. And in case policy disagrees I invoke WP:IAR, this vote has no possible benefit. +Hexagon1 ^(t) 08:14, 5 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  PS: How about the French Sniejka/La neigeuse? Or Esperanto Neĝulo? I'm sure with clever Google manipulation we could get them to become the most common English term too! (I'm sorry, I couldn't resist) +Hexagon1 ^(t) 15:26, 12 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Many editors found their way here who seem to never have edited the article before, and started to vote, always oppose BTW. Hexagon1 even tried to close the discussion as if it were a poll, and as if he was an admin, stating [2] an overwhelming Oppose to the requested move. I'm closing it as per WP:SNOW (and in case that doesn't fly, per WP:IAR itself – the proposed move bears no benefit and would be inherently divisive). I doubt that talk page sections are supposed to be closed, and remove the poll top/bottom templates. Regarding "no benefit and would be inherently divisive", I've provided evidence for alternative naming and recent common use in English when adding this section. -- Matthead  DisOuß   16:26, 12 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]