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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete‎. I see a consensus to Delete this article. Liz Read! Talk! 23:15, 12 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

List of career achievements by Carmelo Anthony[edit]

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List of career achievements by Carmelo Anthony (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)
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This is a clear WP:NOTSTATS violation of indiscriminate trivia. Let'srun (talk) 20:14, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • I'd be more sympathetic to these articles if they were maintainable over time, but experience shows that they're not. You'd need a small army of NBA editors to deal with all the little details that need updating. Rankings and records easily go out of date; for example, Nikola Jokic has surpassed many of Carmelo's Nuggets accomplishments, but that's not reflected in this article. There are some things that Wikipedia will never be able to do as well as sites like basketball-reference.com.
  • These articles might work if they were limited to awards and truly significant records, but in most cases, we should be able to make room for such facts in the main article. (Of course, the main Carmelo Anthony page is super-bloated itself; the level of detail per season is higher than what you'd find at Michael Jordan. That's because people wrote Carmelo's career section while his career was ongoing, rather than taking a retrospective approach.) Zagalejo (talk) 06:47, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Thank you for the comment. I just wanted to add that there are some things basketball-reference (and all others) will never be able to do as well as Wikipedia on sports lists. When done right, career achievements is a collection of pertinent info from a variety of RS sources that no single non-Wiki source has access to. - BeFriendlyGoodSir (talk) 18:49, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete because Carmelo's achievements are not significant enough, and he is constantly falling down the franchise record rankings. However, the rest of the NBA players on Category:Career achievements of basketball players are a keep vote from me except Dwight Howard and Dennis Rodman. - BeFriendlyGoodSir (talk) 17:50, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I am very conflicted on this. List of career achievements by Carmelo Anthony#Career-highs is interesting, does not fit on the main page, and never requires updating. I only said Delete because Dwyane Wade's page was deleted which I do not necessarily agree with but for the purpose of fairness I say this should as well. If criteria was established as to what should go on these pages and what should not then I think it could work for the Top 75 all-time. IMO if player is arguably Top 10 (or Top 75?) all-time he qualifies for a page. Players outside Top 75 do not deserve their own. Here is the NBA’s 75th anniversary list, Dwight is not on it but Carmelo, Chris Paul, and Dwyane are on it. If any need updating, I can assists with that.WP:NOEFFORT is not a good enough reason to remove all of this time-consuming volunteer work. Before AfDing for this reason, please put an update section box at the top of these articles, wait a couple of years, see if anyone helps, and discuss on the Talk page. Thoughts? - BeFriendlyGoodSir (talk) 00:13, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Well, I don't mind the career highs table (assuming the dead link can be replaced). But I'd still rather not encourage these articles. As a data point, look at List of career achievements by Russell Westbrook. That has been tagged for a while, and the career stats table at the top is obviously out of date, but no one has responded. I don't think most volunteers have the patience to work on these articles. It's tedious and unfulfilling work. I think we just need to be realistic. It would be better for people to focus on the main player articles, rather than ultra-detailed spinouts. You probably could fit the career high table in the main Carmelo Anthony article if we tighten up the prose there. Zagalejo (talk) 02:57, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I get it, but it's unfortunate for the creators of these articles who expect other editors to follow their lead. I think we should aim to keep these articles for those in the Top 10 all-time discussion which can vary quite a bit from source to source. Carmelo, Russell Westbrook, Chris Paul, Dwyane Wade, Dennis Rodman are not in there as far as I can see. Here is ESPN's Top 10 rankings and The Athletic's. Since the Top 10 talk is such a focus of emphasis for the media, I think ultra-detailed articles are relevant to the large audience trying to understand who is right in their "hot takes". FYI List of career achievements by Michael Jordan has received 6,100 views in the last 30 days, so people are certainly looking. - BeFriendlyGoodSir (talk) 04:34, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    ...it's unfortunate for the creators of these articles who expect other editors to follow their lead: Consensus can change, not that there's evidence that there was a formal consensus that these pages were ever needed. As early as 2007, Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of career achievements by Dwyane Wade was a "delete". As the nom said, WP:NOTSTATS, and WP's purpose is not to recreate basketball-reference.com's database or compile tidbits sourced to AI site statsmuse.com. There's a reason articles have an "External links" section.—Bagumba (talk) 03:03, 6 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete Similar to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of career achievements by Chris Paul and Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of career achievements by Dwyane Wade (2nd nomination). WP:CONTENTFORK packed with WP:UNDUE, indiscriminate mentions of being one of X players to achieve a trivial statistical cross section. Major, defining achievements should be captured in the main bio.—Bagumba (talk) 12:33, 4 April 2024 (UTC) Also fails WP:NOTSTATS: Statistics that lack context or explanation can reduce readability and may be confusing The page is a pure stats dump.—Bagumba (talk) 03:25, 6 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    "indiscriminate mentions of being one of X players to achieve a trivial statistical cross section", whether it is WP:Trivia is a matter of opinion. For all we know there is significant RS coverage discussing these "one of X players" achievements. I hope these AfD's do not spill over into WP:SPINOUT articles for Top 10 players. They are justified and appropriate IMO. - BeFriendlyGoodSir (talk) 17:20, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    For example, I found The Athletic article saying "only player in NBA history to score 50 points without a single point in the paint". This info is not WP:OR and these records are being talked about. I'll leave it at that. - BeFriendlyGoodSir (talk) 17:38, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    whether it is WP:Trivia is a matter of opinion And this discussion is about our opinions. For all we know there is significant RS coverage discussing these "one of X players" achievements: Per WP:ONUS, feel free to source them and gain consensus.—Bagumba (talk) 15:44, 5 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Instead of trying to go by similar pages that were kept or deleted, it would be useful to go back to the relevant P&G.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Owen× ☎ 00:59, 6 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

FWIW, the nom cited WP:NOTSTATS, and my !vote referenced WP:CONTENTFORK and WP:UNDUE. —Bagumba (talk) 02:50, 6 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per WP:NOTSTATS, I agree with what has been said before. Specific elements commented on by reliable sources may be eligible for a merge, but I think everything of that sort that is relevant is already in the main article. BrigadierG (talk) 11:03, 11 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per nomination. I thought most of these pages have already been deleted until I checked Category:Career achievements of basketball players. Now I see that most of those pages should be nominated for deletion since they have not enough references or do not have any at all. – sbaio 05:34, 6 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/List_of_career_achievements_by_Carmelo_Anthony

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