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[edit]The Ivorian presidential election, 2010 article is very long, and discusses the lead-up to the election, and the first and second round ballot. I think the post-election discussion could be moved here. Wizzy…☎ 06:53, 29 December 2010 (UTC)
- In the international segment, there's no need to point each UN country's support for Ouattara as it's acknowledge he's generally the internationally recognized president of Ivory Coast. Many countries, and the UN, EU etc has come forward to his support. Analyzer99 (talk) 12:41, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
Recent developments
[edit]The article urgently needs updating! In particular, the refugees should be mentioned: "Separately, the UN's refugee agency says the number of civilians fleeing west to Liberia has surged. "Until mid-week we were seeing around 100 people crossing the border daily. But over the past 24 hours alone, the numbers coming across have swollen to 5,000 people," the agency said in a statement."[1]
The situation is becoming serious and not enough attention is paid to this crisis! It should be on the main page of Wikipedia (news)! Olegwiki (talk) 17:09, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
Civil war
[edit]For 4 months and the media says that it is still "heading towards civil war".--78.3.223.193 (talk) 07:48, 29 March 2011 (UTC)
Requested move/Merger proposal
[edit]- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
- (non-admin closure) The result of this discussion was no consensus (6/5/0/1), with no prejudice against proposing another merge with a notice on WP:WPAFRICA for more wider community input. – AJLtalk 20:43, 9 May 2011 (UTC)
See below for explanation |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
The way that this has been developing that last week or so, this is turning into a civil war. If forces loyal to Ouattara are starting to besiege Abidjan, this is no longer a crisis. It's an armed uprising, a civil war. Juiposa (talk) 23:49, 31 March 2011 (UTC)
Creating a separate article for this conflict still makes no sense. If too much info is the problem, we should create a separate for the Iraq War and call it "Iraqi Crisis." That doesn't make sense and your actions don't make sense. Remove the article now or merge it into this article. B-Machine (talk) 03:18, 1 April 2011 (UTC)
I didn't specify that a new article should have been created. I just suggested that this article be renamed to suggest that this is now a civil war. Maybe I should have made that more clear. Juiposa (talk) 20:17, 1 April 2011 (UTC)
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Note that the merge was discussed in two separate discussions and my comment above concerned only that discussion, which has now been 'merged' here. Cenarium (talk) 13:06, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
Unfortunately the discussions have become hopelessly confused and the discussion from that page should not have been merged here. The issue has been discussed on two separate talk pages and two separate proposals have been advanced - (1) that this article should be retitled (Juiposa's original proposal) and that (2) Second Ivorian Civil War should be merged into this article (Bender235's proposal). It is now unclear who is supporting or opposing what. Since Bender235 clearly wants to go ahead with the proposal to merge the two articles, I've closed the previous confused merger/retitle discussion above and posted a clarified proposal below. I will be contacting the editors who commented in the previous discussions to ask them to state their preferences. Prioryman (talk) 17:05, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
Clarified requested move / merger proposal
[edit]It has been proposed that this article, 2010-2011 Ivorian crisis, be merged into Second Ivorian Civil War. The rationale of the proponent, User:Bender235, is that "instead of having three articles—Ivorian presidential election, 2010, 2010–2011 Ivorian crisis, and Second Ivorian Civil War—there should be only two—Ivorian presidential election, 2010, and Second Ivorian Civil War." Please state below whether you support this proposal. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Prioryman (talk • contribs)
- The original proposal, by Juiposa (talk · contribs), was to rename 2010–2011 Ivorian crisis to Second Ivorian Civil War. I supported this, but before the discussion got started Prioryman (talk · contribs) created a separate article full of redundance. And that led to this merger proposal. And for the record, I still support it. --bender235 (talk) 17:28, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
- Don't merge for four reasons. First, there has been a sequence of three events here - a presidential election, which led to a political and diplomatic crisis, which led to a civil war. Each of those is a distinct event and is dealt with in distinct articles. Second, from a practical point of view, there is far too much content in Second Ivorian Civil War - which is getting longer by the day - to merge into the crisis article. Third, it's simply wrong - the December-March 2011 crisis was not a civil war. There were occasional outbreaks of violence but nothing like what has been seen over the last week. Calling the pre-war crisis a "civil war" is completely misleading. And fourth, contra Bender235, there is no redundancy whatsoever - there is a single summary paragraph in this article (2010–2011 Ivorian crisis#Outbreak of second civil war) which links to the civil war article. The premise of Bender235's proposal is completely wrong. This is no basis for a merger. Prioryman (talk) 17:24, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
- Strongly Support, this is a civil war as an out come of an election. Hundreds dead with two apposing fractions, each trying to take/keep the government. Civil war, crisis sounds like a natural disaster or a political mess without a high degree of violence. Zenithfel (talk) 17:25, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
- Strongly Support The Merge for the reasons Bender235 gave. B-Machine (talk) 17:26, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
- Merge First off, saying "merge" or "don't merge" helps to avoid confusion in these kinds of discussions. Anyways, the crisis and civil war are part of the same event. If the civil war lasts a long time, I'd be for a split, but that doesn't seem likely. As an aside, do we have reliable sources calling this a civil war? I've read lots of news articles about this and none of them that I remember have used the term. D O N D E groovily Talk to me 17:38, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, lots: [3] for a few. Prioryman (talk) 17:43, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
- Don't Merge for same reasons as Prioryman.--Martianmister (talk) 18:02, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
- Don't Merge in complete agreement with Prioryman. USchick (talk) 20:02, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
- Don't Merge In agreement with Prioryman. Three separate events each need different articles. Juiposa (talk) 20:18, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
- Don't merge, per my reasoning in the now-hatted discussion and Prioryman's logic. C628 (talk) 21:16, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
- Merge. These events are one and the same. The conflict will be short-lived. The articles are bloated and will be trimmed with the passage of time. The conflict does not match the definition of a civil war.
An alternative would be to have an article strictly on the election, and another on the subsequent event.Jesus, there already is an article on the election, another on the aftermath, and another on the flying lead. Whoever created the third article should be ashamed of themselves. Abductive (reasoning) 22:14, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
- None of us have a crystal ball. Whatever happens in the future, let's talk about it then. USchick (talk) 22:39, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, after the merge. Right now there is not enough for three pages. Abductive (reasoning) 17:27, 6 April 2011 (UTC)
- CBS was calling it a civil war in December [4]. The following sources call it a civil war now: The NY Times [5], BBC News [6], MSNBC [7], FOX News [8], Islamic sources [9], African sources [10] and prime minister of the country's internationally recognized leader [11]. USchick (talk) 16:00, 10 April 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, after the merge. Right now there is not enough for three pages. Abductive (reasoning) 17:27, 6 April 2011 (UTC)
- Merge It makes no sense to have two different articles on the same subject.--RM (Be my friend) 03:31, 13 April 2011 (UTC)
- Merge Hi, I was actually in Ivory Coast last year leading up to the elections. There are several issues here. First of all, the Ivorian presidential election, 2010 needs to stay as its own article. Working with those who were trying to get the election to happen, I know firsthand that that has been an ongoing process since 2005 which ended once the election happened last year once it came to a head with Gbagbo dissolving the government last year and the ONUCI "basket countries" threatening to pull funding if the election didn't happen. The issue of 2010-2011 Ivorian crisis and Second Ivorian Civil War is a different one as while people are citing examples of "civil war" being used, that is a tricky phrase. Of all the news sources cited above, only the BBC actually had journalists in the country and the link citing Andrew Harding using the term is an opinion piece on his BBC blog. For all official articles, they use the term "crisis" or "conflict". So officially, this is a crisis and the phrase Second Ivorian Civil War should never be used currently as it is not classified as such by any official body. Glorified headlines from newspapers wishing to sell copies should not be taken as "fact" in this context. Even the country officials are questionable in this regard as the Gbagbo diplomats were erroneously tossing around the phrase "genocide" to try and sell the conflict. It was a crisis and Second Ivorian Civil War needs to be merged in to 2010-2011 Ivorian crisis. If at some point in the future this terminology changes, this can be changed. Viva la web. Primecoordinator (talk) 19:16, 29 April 2011 (UTC)
Move Discussion; 2010-2011 Ivorian crisis into Second Ivorian Civil War
[edit]- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
- (non-admin closure) The result of this discussion was no consensus (3/2/0). It's been two weeks since the last comment was made. If anyone has an issue with this close, take it up at the admin's noticeboard. – AJLtalk 01:21, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
Extended content
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I'm listing this on behalf of User:B-Machine. The proposal is that 2010-2011 Ivorian crisis be merged into Second Ivorian Civil War, although a move discussion could take place after this one finishes. The previous discussion was closed as a No Consensus,
Proposal[edit]The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Please sign below and comment in the appropriate sections. Thank you. – AJLtalk 00:58, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Proposal 2[edit]
Please sign and comment in the appropriate sections below. Thank you. – AJLtalk 19:47, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
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It's time to merge these two
[edit]- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
- The result of this discussion was No Consensus. The fact that this is the third time this merge was proposed in less than six months, combined with the proposer's comment "I won't stop until these articles are merged or one gets deleted" strongly suggest that he is trying to steamroll over the process of civil discussion and consensus rather than work with it, making the proposal essentially pointless. In any case, posts both here and in the previous two discussions clearly indicate that there is significant opposition to a merge. NukeofEarl (talk) 16:42, 28 October 2014 (UTC)
Second Ivorian Civil War and 2010-2011 Ivorian Crisis are the same conflict. Having two articles about the same conflict is absurd. Merge both articles now.B-Machine (talk) 15:59, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- Not this again? The objections I raised earlier haven't gone away. In short, no. Prioryman (talk) 18:51, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
- This is the fourth time. What possible reason is there to think that the result will be any different than the previous three? Per my previous reasoning, I oppose a merge. C628 (talk) 22:55, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
You two are ridiculous. Both articles are describing the same event with the same citations. You know they're the same. I won't stop until these articles are merged or one gets deleted. B-Machine (talk) 14:28, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
- Strongly support merge: I agree with B-Machine, these two articles are about the exact same conflict, the only difference is that one article talks about it as a political crisis, while the other talks about it as a civil war. I think the latter is more accurate, so when these two are merged the title should be Second Ivorian Civil War. Charles Essie (talk) 16:40, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
- Support merge with cautions: I support the merge but maintaining the Second Ivorian Civil War infobox, wich is clearly far more accurate and neutral than the 2010-11 Ivorian crisis one.--HCPUNXKID (talk) 11:24, 30 May 2013 (UTC)
It seems to me that the consensus here is in favor of merging, so let's do it. Charles Essie (talk) 17:29, 16 June 2014 (UTC)
Neutrality
[edit]User:TaalVerbeteraar claims that France wasn't a neutral force, that it backed Ouatara. This is arguable, but exactly the same argument can be made for the United Nations. France was clearly not a co-beligerent. I've undone this edit. Perhaps the problem is the heading "Neutral forces". Maybe something like "International Forces" would be better. HughesJohn (talk) 17:31, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
- The claim that UN or French forces are neutral is ridiculous, do I had to remember that these forces align themselves with the Outtara forces. I add the NPOV & unbalanced tasg until this issue is resolved.--HCPUNXKID (talk) 11:21, 30 May 2013 (UTC)
A similar point on forces involved. I would argue that having Belarus and Romania as supporting the Gbango is perhaps a bit far. Selling weapons to a side is not indicative of support. Indeed countries have sold weapons to both sides in conflicts before[1], it's all just about money. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.226.214.217 (talk) 05:05, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
Donating or selling at a reduced price would show support
References
- ^ Berry, Lynn. "Russia defends selling arms to both Azerbaijan and Armenia". Associated Press. Associated Press. Retrieved 17 January 2021.
Links
[edit]>> Ivory Coast to send ex-youth leader to ICC (Lihaas (talk) 17:26, 20 March 2014 (UTC)).
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