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Sandstein, Stephan Schulz said he'd be satisfied with a statement from me saying I wouldn't do that again. I added that. My explanation of things was to show what I was thinking at the time I made the edits. It didn't seem to me a problem, especially as the complaint was coming from MastCell who bears no good will towards me. However, uninvolved admins have weighed in and I agree I should not have edited there. So please, do not block me. Thanks. [[User:SW3 5DL|SW3 5DL]] ([[User talk:SW3 5DL|talk]]) 14:02, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
Sandstein, Stephan Schulz said he'd be satisfied with a statement from me saying I wouldn't do that again. I added that. My explanation of things was to show what I was thinking at the time I made the edits. It didn't seem to me a problem, especially as the complaint was coming from MastCell who bears no good will towards me. However, uninvolved admins have weighed in and I agree I should not have edited there. So please, do not block me. Thanks. [[User:SW3 5DL|SW3 5DL]] ([[User talk:SW3 5DL|talk]]) 14:02, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
:You commented repeatedly on a thread entitled [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3ADonald_Trump&diff=619561787&oldid=619522383 "people associated with the Tea Party movement"]. If you lack the judgement to recognize obvious violations of your topic ban, what meaningful assurance can you give that they won't continue to happen? '''[[User:MastCell|MastCell]]'''&nbsp;<sup>[[User Talk:MastCell|Talk]]</sup> 03:22, 6 August 2014 (UTC)
:You commented repeatedly on a thread entitled [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3ADonald_Trump&diff=619561787&oldid=619522383 "people associated with the Tea Party movement"]. If you lack the judgement to recognize obvious violations of your topic ban, what meaningful assurance can you give that they won't continue to happen? '''[[User:MastCell|MastCell]]'''&nbsp;<sup>[[User Talk:MastCell|Talk]]</sup> 03:22, 6 August 2014 (UTC)
@[[User:MastCell|MastCell]], comments from you with attitude and tone like you are displaying here are the reason I deleted your comments as trolling. You are an administrator on WP and should know better than to take a hectoring tone and make disrespectful statements stating that I lack judgment. Go back and review what you've written on my talk page, which btw I'm sorry to have to tell you this, I didn't even read before I deleted it. That's how negative, not here to be helpful, an impression I have of you from the ArbCom pages. I saw your edit summary and immediately thought you were just there to harass me because I didn't agree with you on the article talk page.

Editors listen to those they respect because those people have also shown them respect. Do you know why I immediately respected and accepted what Sandstein had written? Because I've had positive experiences with him in the past. The same with the others. I don't know Stephen Schulz, but when he said there was a violation, I immediately believed him. He didn't use sarcasm or personal attacks. He was civil and identified my error straight away. Same with Ed Johnston when I realized he was reading Collect's comments, and not mine. He immediately came back, made a new comment, asked me if I'd mind if my comments on the article page got strike outs. Nobody has personalized anything. No insults, no sarcasm.

If you had said, "Hey, I think you've got a problem here. It seems you've violated your topic ban. . ." I would have engaged with your comment, we could have had a discussion, and I'd have gone back to the article talk page, done a strike out on my comments, apologized for my mistake, and left immediately. I don't lack judgment. It was not obvious to me that it was more than a BLP issue, as I've explained. But you apparently refuse to believe that. There's nothing I can do in that case. That is up to you, not me. So here is the answer to your question, but it's just for you, it doesn't apply to the rest of the WP community: There's nothing I can say that will assure you that it won't happen again. Because I can't make you listen if you don't want to listen.

But I can assure Sandstein and Stephen Schulz, and Lord Roem and Ed Johnston and the WP community that it was an unintentional mistake and that it will never be a problem again. It's been a year since the ArbCom topic ban, and in all that time I've been editing, I've not had one single violation. This was a mistake, and I think they can see that. [[User:SW3 5DL|SW3 5DL]] ([[User talk:SW3 5DL|talk]]) 03:49, 7 August 2014 (UTC)


==Deletion review for [[Polandball]]==
==Deletion review for [[Polandball]]==

Revision as of 03:49, 7 August 2014

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RFC on purging individuals and groups: closed

A brave closure,[1] and as per my word, I will go ahead and carry out the purge of all people and groups listed in Category:antisemitism and its subcategories in the coming days, as you've decided consensus is that such a purge is long overdue. I don't intend to violate the letter of WP:3RR, but if I am otherwise blocked you'd better have my back. -- Kendrick7talk 05:19, 30 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@Kendrick7: No, I did not say that there is consensus for any "purge". The discussion was about whether to remove instructions from the category page, not about whether to remove pages from the category, and it did not result in consensus. You should obtain explicit consensus for any potentially controversial mass edits in advance, or you risk being blocked for disruptive editing.  Sandstein  06:26, 30 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Um... what part of "This category... must not include articles about individuals, groups or media that are allegedly antisemitic" were you unclear about when you closed the purge debate and decided to keep that instruction? I've already purged Category:Antisemitism in Germany and Category:Antisemitism in Romania. I was the guy insisting this was a bad idea in the first place. Now I'm getting it both coming and going. I refuse to be crucified just because the administration can't make up their damn minds. Mixed messages herein abound -- Kendrick7talk 03:22, 31 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion was about whether text should be removed from the category description, and it resulted in no consensus to do so. My administrator authority does not extend beyond establishing this. If you interpret the outcome of the discussion as anything else, you do so at your own risk. I or "the administration" have no power to decide anything else. I recommend that you work together with others from the discussion to set up a cross-category RfC, as many have suggested, to explore further options about what to do now.  Sandstein  06:41, 31 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
No, you actually could have decided to enforce the clear reading of WP:BURO, that our rules should reflect actual practice, not the other way around. Your dismissal of the rule as mere "text" suggests you hardly took into consideration the matter at hand. Our existing policies should actually override mere nose counting.
Furthermore, I am hardly inclined to open up the discussion so that this cancer can spread to who knows how many more categories beginning with the phrase "anti" given the ongoing indifference of the administration towards taking our most fundamental policies into account on this topic. I will rather magnanimously carry out the order. Sadly, I haven't run into anyone else who cares so far.... -- Kendrick7talk 01:58, 6 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Disruptive editing, ignoring RfC

This is not the complaints department. Please refer to the appropriate fora for requesting admin action.  Sandstein  18:31, 2 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

On the Blue Army (Poland) page. A statement that User:COD T 3 had been reverting out of the article became the basic of an RfC I launched. The conclusion of the RfC: [2] upon its closure was "There are no !votes on this 16 June RFC. However, because it is equivalent to 14 June RFC, it will be closed based on the above. The statement does properly reflect the source." Diff here: [3]. So, I re-added the statement, and was promptly reverted by User:COD T 3, a single-purpose account designed to remove negative info about this military unit. Article history is here:[4]. A discussion of the latest reverts is here: [5]. I am requesting that this user be banned from this topic. How long can one editor have veto power over an article's content?Faustian (talk) 20:45, 1 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Two (and only two) outside contributors weighed-in on the second RfC on the BA talk page. Below are their definitive statements:
  • User: Truther2012 Are there other sources confirming both rapes and scrolls? It looks like the entire very controversial statement is based on a single source. Faustian, if you feel that this statement is that important for the integrity of the article, you should be able to provide more sources. Personally, I do not see why it is so important, as most armies commit similar crimes.--Truther2012 (talk) 13:32, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
  • User: SMcCandlish I have to agree with Truther2012 that "most armies commit similar crimes", and thus insisting on levying a mass rape charge against the Blue Army is not really pertinent, as well as not actually feasible under WP:SYNTH with this particular sourcing. Please see also my how-to, WP:How to mine a source for a tutorial on how to get more information out of source material in a step-wise fashion. Regardless, you're going to need more of it than this very short, confusing partial quotation.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼  12:11, 9 July 2014 (UTC) That seems reasonable to me. It is clearer within this larger-context quotation that the "laundry list" is in fact describing the "Jew-bating and pogroms".  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼  18:42, 9 July 2014 (UTC)
How anyone comes to the conclusion that this discussion yielded consensus and a mandate to add the highly controversial statement to the BA article is beyond me! User Faustian is completely unreasonable in interpreting theses statements as consensus, and by adding the disputed text, user Faustian is creating situations which are disruptive to the BA article. --COD T 3 (talk) 22:47, 1 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
If anyone thinks admin action is needed, it should be requested at WP:AE, Generally, though, admins can't act against questtionable content alterations, but only against problematic conduct.  Sandstein  01:51, 2 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Would a longstanding pattern of persistently reverting info from a referenced source, ignoring an RfC, and misrepresenting what someone concludes (he pasted earlier comments rather than later ones, above) in order support his quest to exclude from an article info he doesn't like, count as problematic conduct? That single purpose account has basically done nothing but veto info that presents the Blue Army in an unfavorable light. It's been happening for years. Here's the same editor when he was posting as an IP: [6], for example. Here's the same editor falsifying what a source had written: [7]. It just goes on and on. He already has had discretionary sanctions for a while: [8]. Coming back to this, the most recent issue, what does someone have to do to get info from a reliable source into an article if one editor insists on reverting it?Faustian (talk) 03:58, 2 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
And sure enough, when I added another fact, he reverted. His edit summary: "This article is not Encyclopedia Judaica, and will not be written from a Jewish perspective." He has indeed violated 3R: [9], [10], [11], [12].Faustian (talk) 13:59, 2 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
NO. The statement was removed not because it comes form a "Jewish" source, but because Encyclopedia Judaica -an encyclopedia- as a tertiary source is not recommended when making controversial statements on a WP page. Other users advised Faustian to avoid the use of such a source in the past. The controversial claim, insinuates a mass charge of insubordination, yet it is clear that the problem was with individual elements of the BA not the entire 68,000 strong army. --COD T 3 (talk) 14:22, 2 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Question

Sandstein, Stephan Schulz said he'd be satisfied with a statement from me saying I wouldn't do that again. I added that. My explanation of things was to show what I was thinking at the time I made the edits. It didn't seem to me a problem, especially as the complaint was coming from MastCell who bears no good will towards me. However, uninvolved admins have weighed in and I agree I should not have edited there. So please, do not block me. Thanks. SW3 5DL (talk) 14:02, 5 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

You commented repeatedly on a thread entitled "people associated with the Tea Party movement". If you lack the judgement to recognize obvious violations of your topic ban, what meaningful assurance can you give that they won't continue to happen? MastCell Talk 03:22, 6 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@MastCell, comments from you with attitude and tone like you are displaying here are the reason I deleted your comments as trolling. You are an administrator on WP and should know better than to take a hectoring tone and make disrespectful statements stating that I lack judgment. Go back and review what you've written on my talk page, which btw I'm sorry to have to tell you this, I didn't even read before I deleted it. That's how negative, not here to be helpful, an impression I have of you from the ArbCom pages. I saw your edit summary and immediately thought you were just there to harass me because I didn't agree with you on the article talk page.

Editors listen to those they respect because those people have also shown them respect. Do you know why I immediately respected and accepted what Sandstein had written? Because I've had positive experiences with him in the past. The same with the others. I don't know Stephen Schulz, but when he said there was a violation, I immediately believed him. He didn't use sarcasm or personal attacks. He was civil and identified my error straight away. Same with Ed Johnston when I realized he was reading Collect's comments, and not mine. He immediately came back, made a new comment, asked me if I'd mind if my comments on the article page got strike outs. Nobody has personalized anything. No insults, no sarcasm.

If you had said, "Hey, I think you've got a problem here. It seems you've violated your topic ban. . ." I would have engaged with your comment, we could have had a discussion, and I'd have gone back to the article talk page, done a strike out on my comments, apologized for my mistake, and left immediately. I don't lack judgment. It was not obvious to me that it was more than a BLP issue, as I've explained. But you apparently refuse to believe that. There's nothing I can do in that case. That is up to you, not me. So here is the answer to your question, but it's just for you, it doesn't apply to the rest of the WP community: There's nothing I can say that will assure you that it won't happen again. Because I can't make you listen if you don't want to listen.

But I can assure Sandstein and Stephen Schulz, and Lord Roem and Ed Johnston and the WP community that it was an unintentional mistake and that it will never be a problem again. It's been a year since the ArbCom topic ban, and in all that time I've been editing, I've not had one single violation. This was a mistake, and I think they can see that. SW3 5DL (talk) 03:49, 7 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Deletion review for Polandball

An editor has asked for a deletion review of Polandball. Because you closed the deletion discussion for this page, speedily deleted it, or otherwise were interested in the page, you might want to participate in the deletion review. 185.49.15.25 (talk) 06:27, 6 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

AE question.

How recent the diffs should be to be considered an evidence at WP:AE?--Shrike (talk)/WP:RX 14:09, 6 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

It depends. Generally, to be actionable, an AE request should include at least one diff of very recent misconduct, about a week old. Older diffs can be included if necessary to show the persistence of disruptive conduct.  Sandstein  14:12, 6 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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