Wikipedia:WikiProject Tropical cyclones/Statistics#Project bounties / other stats

It's been about a year since I compared the quality of the various basins by each decade, so I thought I'd give an update. I used only the articles and seasons that are good article or better, from 1950 to 2009. Some highlights.

Atlantic

The Atlantic gained 57 to a total of 288. This represents a 20% increase. The decade that had the most GA+ articles was the 1990s, which increased from 30 to 47, or by 36%. The 1980s also had significant gains, going from 23 to 39, or by 41%. Collectively, the 1980s and 1990s represented 33 of the new GA's, or 57% of the the total new GA+'s.

EPAC

The Eastern Pacific had significant gains, with 32 more to a total of 146. This represents a 22% increase. The decade with the most GA+ articles was the 1980s, which increased by 11 to 21, an increase of 48%.

Outside of those two basins, the WPAC had the most gains, with 15 more to a total of 58. Similar to the EPAC, the WPAC had a significant increase in the 1980s, largely thanks to Cyclonebiskit who added six GA's in the 1989 Pacific typhoon season.

--♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 21:12, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

They are really 21 GA articles during the 1980's in the EPAC? I find that hard to believe? YE ^{Pacific Hurricane} 00:19, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

Wikilinking within the project

Since there are a few articles up for GA, now is as good a time as any to check on what this project's policy is on geographic name wikilinking. I can check again, but as of several months ago, wikipedia advised no wikilinks for geographic locations. At least one of the articles up for GA wikilinks geographic locations at every use. Thegreatdr (talk) 06:47, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

I hadn't heard of that WP policy. Our policy has been that we link uncommon place names that the writer thinks the reader might not know (in which case, no linkings of major countries or US states, since this is the English Wikipedia). That is, unless it's a sub-article on a particular area. Then, I think it's worth it to link the area, like New Mexico in List of New Mexico hurricanes. Generally, all city names are linked (unless they're used more than once). Basically, the uncommon place names are linked every time on their first usage. If they appear in the lede, then they'll generally be linked in the MH. --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 16:59, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

That would help solve the dilemna with one of the GANs...dropping the country name to zero or one wikilink. Thanks for the feedback, and if anyone else has any thoughts, now would be the time to mention them. Thegreatdr (talk) 18:44, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

Wikilinks for uncommon geographical locations are desirable. Not everyone knows where, Tucson is, but they probably know where Arizona is located, so there is no need to link to the latter. Titoxd^{(?!? - cool stuff)} 00:42, 28 February 2012 (UTC)

Agreed with both of you, geographic links should be used for an uncommon place from a non-US reader (which may or may not include Arizona, depends on interpretation). YE ^{Pacific Hurricane} 15:31, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Template:Infobox winter storm

I have just received a complaint about date format changes such as this causing breaks in image links because image names have been changed. Upon investigation, it seems that there is a particularly template that uses non-standard terminology as parameters. Whilst I will modify my script to avoid changing such instances, I would like to raise the issue here. I find the |image name= confusing because it usually refers to, er, image name. I hope that the template in question could be modified, so that |image location= is changed in favour of the more universal |image=, and |image name= be changed to |caption=. --Ohconfucius ^¡digame! 01:46, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

Changing file names (like with the first modification in your linked example) is a really, really bad idea! Did I say bad???!! Files mostly are located on commons and are used in other Wikipedia language versions as well. Aside this, converting one valid data format into another valid data format is not encouraged (WP:DATERET). --Matthiasb (talk) 08:37, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

And changing American date format into British date format in an article on an Alaska weather event is just wrong in genereal, WP:STRONGNAT. Stop this please. --Matthiasb (talk) 08:49, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

SSHS classifications

Outside of the NHC AOR, when should we be allowed to classify something on the SSHS. I ask as we currently have CPHC saying that a tropical depression exists in the SPAC while NWS PAGO PAGO have called TD's before the JTWC previously and both use the SSHS.Jason Rees (talk) 13:01, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

I don't quite get your question. Tropical depressions aren't part of the Saffir-Simpson Hurricane scale. --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 13:59, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

Except in our infoboxes we treat them as if they are a part, but for the avoidance of doubt i am meaning adding 1-min winds to the infobox when the JTWC havent initiated but the CPHC and or NWS Pago Pago have.Jason Rees (talk) 22:25, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

Yea, I think I get you now. However, I don't think CPHC should be included, as they aren't warning for the SHEM. --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 16:43, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

Possible source of information

A set of publications I had forgotten about is out there for people looking for more information regarding Atlantic TCs beyond 1973. They are titled ANNUAL DATA AND VERIFICATION TABULATION OF ATLANTIC CYCLONES and cover from 1974 onward. I stopped looking/using them after the 1987 publication for the CLIQR database, as this information from 1988 onward is currently within the ATCF database and the extended best track database. They sometimes show longer tracks than HURDAT for various tropical cyclones, and include eye diameter information from recon and radar imagery, as well as central pressure information from recon flights into systems. This type of information (in the current era of ATCF) would be considered fixes. FYI. Thegreatdr (talk) 01:06, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

Wikipedia:HighBeam

Wikipedia:HighBeam describes a limited opportunity for Wikipedia editors to have access to HighBeam Research.
—Wavelength (talk) 16:13, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

SSHWS

Should we create an article on the SSHWS now that the windspeeds have changed or rather will do come May 15. Also in the infoboxes shouldnt we now be using SSHWS worldwide rather than SSHS?.Jason Rees (talk) 16:03, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

I think we should hold off on moving Saffir-Simpson Hurricane Scale until we see if the public changes what they call it. SSHS is still the common title. I don't think a new article is needed, since the new scale is only off by 2 mph, and there are no retroactive changes. The info should be added though. That said, I agree that the infoboses should use SSHWS, since that is often where the 115 kt/116 kt debacle is often seen. --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 16:17, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

I personally think that a new article is warranted as the SSHS was the scale with all the information on the Surge pressure etc while the SSHWS just contains the wind.Jason Rees (talk) 02:38, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Ehh, still the same basic scale though. Like I said, I think we should wait to see if the public/media recognizes the name change. If they still call it SSHS, then we shouldn't move/create a new article. --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 06:12, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

No new article, but is should be moved IMO. See the discusion at Talk:Metta World Peace (where he changed his name from Ron Artest to Metta World Peace, the article was soon moved). YE ^{Pacific Hurricane} 15:15, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Eh, it's different when a person's name is legally changed to something completely different. This is a case where there's one extra word and some minor changes. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 18:26, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Id hardly call the removal of pressure, flood ranges, storm surge estimations, rainfall and a general tidy up of the scale minor.Jason Rees (talk) 19:02, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

What about the other warning centers that use the SSHS, are they changing? — Ines(talk) 22:36, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

(reply to JR) It's the same scale though. No one ever used all of those other meteorological aspects of the SSHS. It's really minor. It isn't changing anything in the best track. This is quite unlike the Enhanced Fujita scale, which created a new designation (EF4 instead of F4) and had significant wind changes. --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 22:45, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

I too think it's unnecessary to create a new page, per Hurricanehink's reasoning. Inks.LWC (talk) 08:44, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

Did you notice that the difference won't change anything, since wind speeds are rounded by five knots all the time? It was an issue when converting but actually the on five knots interval based wind speeds published by the NHC are not affected at all. --Matthiasb (talk) 21:13, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

Meteorologist notability for article inclusion within project

Since I'm now the proud target of an AFD (go me!), now is as good of time as any to define for the project what is needed for someone to be considered notable. I believe wikipedia has a few guidelines which cover this. Just because someone gets on TV from time to time does not make them notable. Just because someone makes weather forecasts and/or contributes to wikipedia does not make them inherently notable. How many refereed articles do they need to have under their belt, either as a main author or under some acknowledgements section for the providing of a data set? Does having their name as a main author within papers count if their normal work duties require it (see NHC, HRD, CPC, and anyone who writes a thesis or dissertation)? Do awards matter, meteorological or otherwise? We've been needing to have this conversation as a project since at least 2007. Now seems to be as good of a time as any to have it. Ideas? Thegreatdr (talk) 02:55, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

BLPs should be a rare honour in the met projects ie those who have significantly contributed to the day to day weather on a global scale and not just hold a certain office. So this would mean that all the NHC directors and forecasters articles would go as they haven't done anything major GLOBALLY while articles would be kept on Davorak, Fujita since both of them have had a significant impact on Global forecasting.Jason Rees (talk) 18:58, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

I think the highest-up officials and employees and the most influential forecasters are fine to stay, even if their work is regional. The NHC is more-or-less leading the way for TC forecasting in western society (most of the European media cites them, for example), and the UKMET runs models that are used globally every day. I think it's kind of hard to work at a major forecasting operation and not have a global or semiglobal impact. Juliancolton (talk) 20:08, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

But what about the head of the IMD, Canadian Hurricane Centre, or the Indonesian Agency for Meteorology, Climatology and Geophysics? I don't think there'd be the info for them. I wouldn't want notability to be tied to how much info there is. The fact that there might be more sources on a US meteorologist doesn't mean they're more important than someone who's from a language other than English. --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 22:29, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

From what I've read, notability is tied to the amount of information out there in published form, whether it be via journal articles or books. Meteorologists such as Joanne Simpson who are pioneers in the field should have a lot of info out there, so they are notable (as I understand it). As would Fred Sanders (meteorologist), Isaac Cline, those involved in the Norwegian cyclone model, and Lewis Fry Richardson. Specifically related to the TC project, William Gray and Ivan Ray Tannehill would likely be notable. Once you start going down from those lofty heights though, it's hard to know. Lance Bosart might have a good amount of info out there. The article we have on Robert Case probably wouldn't survive an AFD. The Lixion Avila and Ed Rappaport articles have virtually no information, regardless of whether or not they are notable. Just because you work for a National Center within the NWS would not make you notable. Age doesn't make you notable either, so in theory, the amount of time you've been a meteorologist really shouldn't matter. Thegreatdr (talk) 22:46, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

Now that the article concerning David M. Roth is gone, can someone program a bot to strip out all the related wikilinks? This would take a great deal of time to do manually. Much thanks. Thegreatdr (talk) 01:10, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

Since I happen to have this page watchlisted (likely from a prior notification), and was the one who nominated that article for deletion, I've done so using twinkle. —Strange Passerby (talk • cont) 01:32, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

• Here are the guidelines from the Military project, adapted for our use:

In general, an individual is presumed to be notable if they have received significant coverage in multiple verifiable independent, reliable sources.

In particular, an individual will almost always have sufficient coverage to qualify if they:

1. Were awarded their nation's highest award for meteorology or
2. Were awarded their nation's second-highest award for meteorology; or
3. Held a rank considered to be that equivalent of a national agency; or
4. Played an important role during a significant tropical cyclone event; or
5. Made a material contribution to tropical cyclone meteorology that is indisputably attributed to them; or
6. Were the undisputed inventor of a form of weather technology which significantly changed the nature of the science; or
7. Were recognised by their peers as an authoritative source on meteorology/tropical cyclones.

• Think this could work? Thegreatdr (talk) 21:04, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

Looks like it could work to me.Jason Rees (talk) 13:23, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

It has been reworded for the TC/meteorology project purposes. I'll post it over there as well. Other opinions would be good to hear. Two does not make a consensus. Thegreatdr (talk) 20:54, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

IDK, thinking about it some more, the military project has like 100,000 articles. We have barely 3,000, and I don't think people in meteorology are as notable as military generals. I think the best way, as with many of our articles, is to go article by article. I wouldn't say awards in meteorology warrant people getting articles, and as for national agency, I don't really think every director of the IMD, or FMS, deserve an article, since in the grand scheme of things, how important are they really? At least, that is based on my assessment of the project right now. There isn't any need to have stubs for every director for each of those agencies while the articles on the warning centers are so lacking. However, that isn't necessarily the case for the Atlantic, where many articles are more developed, and there will likely be more info. Above all, I think we should go just article by article (or group by group, such as the case of a deletion of all NHC forecasters due to lack of notability). Speaking of the NHC forecasters, the only ones I'd avoid in the AFD are Mayfield (since he was a director) and Landsea (since he is involved in the re-analysis project, whatnot. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 15:30, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

It is also worth noting that most of the NHC forecaster articles contain mostly quotes. How do we handle this? Create an article on Quotes from the National Hurricane Center (which I am not sure if that is encyclopedic) or outright deletion along with the forecaster article? YE ^{Pacific Hurricane} 21:59, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

Yea, I'd say that article would not be encyclopedic. Check out both James Franklin (meteorologist) and Lixion Avila after their quotes have been removed. I think they might be deletion worthy. --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 02:10, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

TC Rainfall maxima issues this week

The original code for the page became corrupted within Microsoft Word last weekend. After battling with the issue for a couple days, it was decided to redevelop the page from scratch. Yesterday, half of the information was re-included...but until Friday or Saturday, TC rainfall maximum information prior to 1982 will be missing due to my work schedule. It should be back online fully by Friday or Saturday. If this is an issue, I'm sure there is an old version within archive.org that has the information during this transition.

On the plus side, the last couple visits to the NOAA Central Library yielded rainfall amounts for Thailand TCs from 1989-1991, gathered from their Daily Weather Map-type series. Later visits should be able to extend this information back to 1987 or 1986. There is also a significant old archive of Cuban weather publications (in Spanish) that date back towards the turn of the 20th century, which could allow Cuban information to be added to some of the older rainfall maps. FYI. Thegreatdr (talk) 12:20, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

That's terrible news about the corruption, but interesting about Thailand. Would there be enough info to make maps for Thailand, or would it end up being listed as rainfall totals, along the lines of how you have Bermuda and America Samoa storms listed? Nice about Cuba too - I was beginning to wonder whether Flora was an outlier. --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 14:36, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

The publications do have enough data to create the rainfall maps, though finding latitude/longitude pairs would be necessary for these sites. The problem is, the heavy rains which fall in Thailand from TCs normally occur through its narrow southern section. Without rainfall amounts from Cambodia and Vietnam, there wouldn't be much to draw. For now, I'm holding off on rainfall graphics for that region. If I find similar information for Cambodia and Vietnam, I would go ahead and compile all the precipitation amounts into spreadsheets and draw the graphics. The process would be slow as it would be derived from a non-digitized dataset, similar to how the TC rainfall graphics were prepared until 2002/2003. Even with the older data from Cuba, I'm quite sure Flora (1963) is a once-in-a-century outlier. Thegreatdr (talk) 14:46, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

Makes sense about Thailand, no sense having a map for that. How likely is it finding data for Cambodia or Vietnam? As for Cuba, daw, oh well, Flora was a once-in-a-century storm too. Only fair for it to have such a awesome map. --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 14:58, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

Are you planning to be covering each storm that affects a country now when there is information available about the rainfall or what?. Eg: Adding the freely available rainfall from Roke in Japan to the Maxima.Jason Rees (talk) 17:54, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

I have no problems adding maxima from TCs worldwide to the page, as long as the source is considered reliable. NCDC has a good deal of international information, but several years back one of their data archivists mentioned they had less faith in data from other countries, particularly the real-time SYNOP observations. As long as it's from the horse's mouth (so to speak), sure, I could include the information on the page. Who/where is the source of Roke, Japan? Thegreatdr (talk) 21:47, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

Rokes rainfall comes from its passage report on the Typhoon Committees website C/O RSMC Tokyo, while others are there for Hong Kong and Macau. I also agree that we have to tread carefully around rainfall especially when you consider that 2 or more tropical disturbances can affect a country within a couple of days.Jason Rees (talk) 22:25, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

If it's already on an RSMC's website, I probably wouldn't add the information into the TC rainfall maxima pages unless it adds value to a current graphic. I still run into the occasional piece of information from an NHC TC report or NCDC storm data item which needs to be added into the graphic. The 25" report from Danielle reported by the public about 10 miles northwest of Junction does not appear that it will be one of them. It's good to know about that link from a wikipedia article standpoint. Thegreatdr (talk) 02:58, 11 April 2012 (UTC)

Finished rebuilding the web page last night. We had the technology. It's stronger, faster....you get my drift. Thegreatdr (talk) 17:09, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

Nice! ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 15:15, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

Moving North Atlantic tropical cyclone

Seeing the above discussion, I propose the above title be moved to Atlantic hurricane. As mentioned above, the warning center is the "National Hurricane Center", and each year storms form in the "hurricane season". The WP:COMMONNAME rule should apply here, as "Atlantic hurricane" gets 1.35 million Google hits, but "North Atlantic tropical cyclone" gets only 745,000. --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 23:55, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

I would involve the GAN reviewer on this. Thegreatdr (talk) 00:02, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

The one from four years ago? Just checking. --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 00:08, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

Yep. I seem to remember this discussion occurring back then as well. Thegreatdr (talk) 00:12, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

Well, the GA review appears to be inactive (has not edited in a month or two). YE ^{Pacific Hurricane} 00:14, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

After rechecking its talk page, it appears it wasn't the GA reviewer who made the suggestion...it was you, Mr, Hink. hehehehe Thegreatdr (talk) 00:17, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

I support the Atlantic hurricane name as well. That's what the article covers, that what we should name it. Contrast this with South Atlantic tropical cyclones, which only deals with tropical cyclones in the South Atlantic (which are not named "hurricanes"). No reason not to move. -RunningOnBrains^(talk) 00:21, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

Well DR, I've been here going on seven years. I'm allowed to change my mind every once in a while :) --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 00:29, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

We evolve. It's understandable. Thegreatdr (talk) 20:35, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

Just like Pokemon and monkeys :) --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 20:41, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

Does anyone else oppose? --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 00:59, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

Tropical wave

Some more eyes on this article would be nice; I just reverted vandalism more than two weeks old there and the most recent edit before that one was November 14, 2011. I'm also somewhat scratching my head at the "Screaming eagle waves" section. Ks0stm ^{(T•C•G•E)} 21:05, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

Satellite termonology from Hank Brandli/the Air Force from 1974. It's real and not vandalism. Thegreatdr (talk) 22:54, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

Template:Infobox Hurricane Effects

That was originally created due to certain limitations of the regular hurricane infobox, but I think by now it doesn't do much good having a separate template. When looking at Effects_of_Hurricane_Isabel_in_North_Carolina (one of the featured effects article), one can see that there is nothing additional but the Hurricane Isabel series. I'm thinking of putting it up for TFD, but I wanted to get some feedback first. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 15:15, 17 April 2012 (UTC) Template:Infobox Hurricane Effects has been nominated for merging with Template:Infobox hurricane. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Thank you. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 01:07, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

Actually I think, that articles like Effects_of_Hurricane_Isabel_in_North_Carolina should not use the Template:Infobox hurricane because of they're not the article on the hurricane. --Matthiasb (talk) 16:38, 28 April 2012 (UTC)

Reminder about the CLIQR database not being the official TC database

Normally, any alterations made to HURDAT for this database are to extend/correct tracks based on the North American and Northern Hemisphere map series, and when they are significant NHC is e-mailed. There are a few systems where the intensity is different, based upon the maps. Since HPC is not the RSMC, go with the NHC intensity. It is going to be quite some time before the hurricane reanalysis makes it into the 1960s and 1970s to address these details/concerns. The Hope and Irma 1978 update was different in that NHC had made these designations, but somehow they didn't make it into HURDAT until now. Thegreatdr (talk) 00:37, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

History of Atlantic tropical cyclone warnings

This new article was created yesterday, and has seen significant expansion today. From the page views in the article history for yesterday, the new page is a hit. The question is: is the scope of this article sufficient the way it stands right now, or do more sections/concepts need to be included? More expansion is planned for the early years section and the earliest years of NHC, as well as more referencing. Thegreatdr (talk) 18:08, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

Very nice. That way the main NHC article can focus more on what it does now. As for the history, hmm, maybe include a bit of the history of Atlantic tropical cyclone forecasting? Like, when they went to 3 days, and when they went to 5 days, and how they plan to go to 7 days. Would it be appropriate to mention when TS warnings came about? Or when the first hurricane warning was issued? (this one). Like, overall, more about the literal word "warnings"? Perhaps how warnings were distributed to the public before the internet? Just rambling here, but good work so far. --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 18:47, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

If the information can be found about, it will be included. I know they did 3 day forecasts through 2001 or 2002, and have done 5 day forecasts ever since. The timing of the change from gale to tropical storm warning could be included. We'd need to cover the recent change in watch/warning periods as well. Good ideas. Thegreatdr (talk) 19:03, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

Oh right, I forgot that they extended the warning and watch time. I know TS warnings were first added in 1987 (per here). It actually appears they had 3 day forecasts going back very far, at least to 1967. Only the change from 3 to 5 is needed then, IMO. --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 19:15, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

Looks like a significant article to me, but I think the title should be moved to History of Atlantic hurricane warnings per WP:COMMONNAME. YE ^{Pacific Hurricane} 21:27, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

Good call, I agree. That OK, DR? --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 22:03, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

It would be shorter, which wikipedia general likes. But, will the article be able to pass through GAN with this title? Atlantic hurricane couldn't...the name had to revert to North Atlantic tropical cyclone. Hurricane really isn't a synonym for tropical cyclone. Thegreatdr (talk) 23:07, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

I think it'd be fine to move. After all, it's the "National Hurricane Center", "hurricane season". --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 23:12, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

Both of those are established terms and entities. I was planning on talking about gale/TS watches and warnings along with their hurricane counterpart. That's the possible issue, as it was in the Atlantic hurricane/North Atlantic tropical cyclone article. I like to avoid conflict when possible. I'll leave it to a consensus though. If more people feel the name can be changed, you all can change it. If it needs to be changed back later, so be it. I'm just here to improve the content where I can. =) Thegreatdr (talk) 23:38, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

Yes, it should pass GAN wit that title. List of Arizona hurricanes was able to pass FL with that title. BTW, I also feel North Atlantic tropical cyclone should be moved back to Atlantic hurricane. YE ^{Pacific Hurricane} 23:51, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

There have been no objections, so I made the move. Thegreatdr (talk) 15:15, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

I initiated the unrelated discussion below about moving the article title for NATC. --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 23:56, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

1932 Cuba hurricane

I am somewaht confused. While the article says, it was the tenth named storm of the season what suggests the track map should be named File:1932 Atlantic hurricane 10 track.png it was moved to File:1932 Atlantic hurricane 14 track.png. What's going on?

I also saw that into the 1932 hurricane season article have been added some further storms. I don't think that the counting changes retroactive only because the reanalyses project found some more storms. See, AL232005 Tammy and the later storms kept its designations even after that unnamed storm was added in reanalyses after the season. --Matthiasb (talk) 15:16, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

Those numbers were never officially designated by the Jacksonville or New Orleans Hurricane Warning Offices at the time, nor by NHC since then. The only official designation NHC makes for storms prior to naming is NOT NAMED. This is the primary reason why I do not like our project's naming convention for TCs prior to 1950. We should just be generic, calling them Mid-September Caribbean Hurricane or August Florida Tropical Storm. Thegreatdr (talk) 16:01, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

1926 Miami hurricane

After a brief discussion on IRC today with TA and a few others, I decided to brings this up on the talk page. It is widely known that KAtrina is the costliest Atlantic TC, but adjusted with inflation, it is the Miami cane (which does not even sound right, is $100 mil really worth 126 bil in today's money? Should we convert ancient storms to inflation or not? Converting to inflation allows us to truly compare storms, but Jason Rees (talk · contribs) has told me that inflation is OR, which IMO is not true since inflation numbers are released by the cove, and there appers to be dozens of fairly reliable inflation calculators across the web that cite the government. So, the main question is, should we use inflation? YE ^{Pacific Hurricane} 03:18, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

It is OR because there are several ways to inflate the data, and unless you have a source stating the way to do it and that it is applicable to the thing you are trying to inflate the data. On a personal note i feel that inflation provides a lot of hassle that isnt worth it. What does inflation provide? For the last 3 decades the prices haven't changed that much to make it really worth bombarding people with an inflated total every time we have a damage total. What i would love to do is to be able to make the box able to accept other damage totals in addition to USD.Jason Rees (talk) 17:17, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

Inflation data is generally pointless for natural disasters, since, as implied above, there are so many other things that factor into it. If someone went back in time, put the hurricane in a bottle, and let it go tomorrow, it might leave only $10 million in losses or inflict $4 billion worth. As for the inflated number itself... I have no reason to doubt its accuracy if the hurricane is a binary statistic. As far as I know, there's really only one way to calculate the inflation of a single system of currency. Otherwise, damage totals themselves are of pretty dubious nature when presented in number form (I've studied hundreds of storms, thousands if you count non-tropical events, and I couldn't tell you the exact monetary losses for any of them). Inflation is even less likely to be absorbed by readers. Juliancolton (talk) 20:44, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

Huh? There has been plenty of inflation since the early 1980s. Back then, you could buy a loaf of bread for under a dollar, gas was close to $2 per gallon (near its peak prior to 2005), a head of lettuce was about 40 cents, and you could get a reasonably priced house of about 2000 squared feet for $30-$100k (central and south FL prices respectively). Even without an inflator, I know that the value of items has gone up 2-4x since then. Thegreatdr (talk) 22:14, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

But 2-4% isnt that much imo, when compared to some of the parts of the tropics that we would inflate the US dollar for (eg: Zimbabwe, China).Jason Rees (talk) 23:18, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

AFAIK, inflation calculators are reliable sources that calculate it for you. and JR, I'd like you to meet your new friend Template:Inflation that takes care of any hassle (you just need to know how to use it). YE ^{Pacific Hurricane} 22:56, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

They maybe reliable sources but it is still OR, especially when applying it to storms outside of the United States with Zimbabwe providing a very good example of this. How can you take convert 1 ZWD to USD and then inflate it using the US rates and then convert it back to ZWD and infer that it is the proper damage total. Oh yeah you cant because its Original Research. Also how do you know that the inflation calculators are upto date?Jason Rees (talk) 23:18, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, I don't consider it OR. You simply use Template:Inflation (which has sources in the documentation) and convert it. However,I woulnd't convert non-US stuff since the sources are usually fairly recent and the inflation rate has not changed much or even de-flated slightly. YE ^{Pacific Hurricane}

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘You may not consider it OR but you are forgetting that there are numerous inflator's out there for the US, that are updated several times a year. Also the sources in the inflation calculator do not cover how we should use the inflation calculator for TC's. It is also worth noting that if you were to inflate stuff for the US only then we would have problems when it comes to articles where there are multiple countries involved.Jason Rees (talk) 23:40, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

• Using inflation indices would not seem to me to be OR, as it seems to fall under the "routine calculation" exception articulated in WP:CALC. The question is: Which price index are you using to make the calculations? {{Inflation}} uses the Consumer Price Index, but storm damage inflation adjustments in NHC basins use the Implicit Price Deflator for Construction.^{[1], p. 5, footnote 2} Thus, as long as you show the calculation you should be okay, if all you are trying to do is inflate totals from a pre-existing source. (Now, trying to introduce a storm into a list of costliest TCs gets into a much grayer area, and requires discussion to verify that you are indeed not committing OR.) Titoxd^{(?!? - cool stuff)} 08:48, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
  • Well, it isn't so much OR as it is, why should we be including inflation? Movie articles don't usually include inflation prices. As we all know, simply having inflation doesn't provide nearly as much as the calculation that also takes population increase into account (wealth normalization). Saying that a hurricane in 1940 that caused $20 million would be $600 million with inflation... just doesn't sound that impressive, given how low that would be nowadays. --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 12:42, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

Timeline of the 2010 Pacific hurricane season

Why don't we recreate this page? Despite the lack of storms don't you think we should have a time line of events? I mean it's not on the season's page either but putting it there would take up too much space and there's also a link to the page contained within the season's page that redirects to itself. So what I'm basically asking, should we put the time line on the season's page, recreate the time line's page, or just leave it without a time line? Curtis23 talk to me 21:51, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

In this case, due to lack of storms, yea, put the timeline in the season article. In most cases, no. YE ^{Pacific Hurricane}

WP:TFL

Hi there. I've been checking through the lists we've featured on WP:TFL so far, and was surprised to find that we haven't had one of our featured meteorology lists on the Main Page yet.

I was wondering if anyone had a specific featured list in mind that they'd like to see go up, and would be willing to submit at WP:TFLS (I'd be happy to draft a blurb if that would help)? Perhaps (but not necessarily) to coincide with an anniversary of a specific storm? TFL is admittedly a slow moving process, but if you mention in the nomination that we haven't had a meteorology list, that should get the wheels turning a little bit quicker. —WFC— 02:54, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

Would anyone here mind seeing timelines go to WP:TFL? YE ^{Pacific Hurricane} 21:54, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Lets wait, since we now have the list of the wettest tropical cyclones in the United States on there.Jason Rees (talk) 22:00, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

That does not mean we can't have another one :P. YE ^{Pacific Hurricane} 22:16, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Until TFL goes to twice a week i would suggest that it does, since we dont wanna spam them. Also i dont think timelines should go up, when we are all still in dispute about if they are needed anymore or are useful.Jason Rees (talk) 22:22, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

We've settled that months ago. I think more TFLs=more exposure to the project. YE ^{Pacific Hurricane} 22:29, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

I agree though that we should refrain on timelines. --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 01:11, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

United States TC rainfall data prior to 1956

• The link was uploaded last night. Thegreatdr (talk) 21:28, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
  • For those who go TLDR there is a summary of the data on PDF page 308, to which you should add 10 pages to get to a meteorological summary of the data.Jason Rees (talk) 22:25, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Issues with WP:Accessibility

Over at 2011 Atlantic hurricane season the timeline has been changed to include "(TS)" or "(C1)" etc. after the storm name to indicate its strenght to those with colorblindness. The problem with that is that the text then often runs into bars for later storms. The solution for now has been to reduce the size, but it's too a level that is too unreadable. Considering that the information on the strength of storms is easily found elsewhere, I think this should be a common sense exception to WP:Accessibility (similar to our exception right now that we use only color to indicate the strength of storms in our storm track maps). Any thoughts? Inks.LWC (talk) 21:53, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

I think if you reorganised the timeline eg: put Emily on another line and maybe expanded it a bit you be fine. Ive just had a play with it and removed the overlinking and came with this.Jason Rees (talk) 22:00, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

Your link doesn't seem to be working. Inks.LWC (talk) 03:43, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

There's still some overlap. And in my opinion, it makes it look cluttered. Again, I'd advocate that we make this one of those "common sense" exceptions that WP:Accessibility allows for, like we do with our track maps. Inks.LWC (talk) 04:38, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

Discussion at Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Tropical Storm Erick (2007)

You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Tropical Storm Erick (2007). ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 01:46, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

Big heads up

Big heads up guys. Hurricane Andrew is at WP:FAC. Be nice and please help out and leave comments. Thank you. YE ^{Pacific Hurricane} 02:03, 23 June 2012 (UTC)