Preceded by Archive #14

Archives of User talk:Neutralhomer Archive #15 July 15, 2019—Present

Succeeded by Archive #16

Re our reverts at WWNR: the <small>...</small> tag is not allowed to modify normal-sized infobox text. See MOS:FONTSIZE. Take your objections to WT:MOSTEXT. The most recent RFC on the question is here. – Jonesey95 (talk) 20:06, 25 February 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Jonesey95: My objections are being addressed to you, since you are wrong. Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Text_formatting#Font_size shows nothing about the <small>...</small> tag. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 20:23 on February 25, 2019 (UTC)

Avoid using smaller font sizes in elements that already use a smaller font size, such as infoboxes, navboxes and reference sections. – Jonesey95 (talk) 20:56, 25 February 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Jonesey95:Yes, it says "avoid", it doesn't say "they are not allowed". That is two VERY different statements there. Avoid is "only use when absolutely necessary", not allowed is "don't use under any circumstance". See the difference. In this case, this case, it was necessary to differentiate between the callsign meaning and the reason behind that callsign meaning. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 21:05 on February 25, 2019 (UTC)

I figured that maybe you would be able to read the subsequent sentence, which is clear and proscriptive: In no case should the resulting font size drop below 85% of the page's default font size. The small tags that you desire are contrary to that statement. Please remove them. – Jonesey95 (talk) 21:17, 25 February 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The font size of the infobox is about a 10, with the small tags they are a 9. So, 85%, I think not. That would be 8 1/2 or lower. It still doesn't say "not allowed" which was your original argument. You are changing your argument to fit however you can keep the small tags off the page. You're wrong, you know it, stop now. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 22:08 on February 25, 2019 (UTC)

I'm afraid that you are incorrect, which is why the text I quoted exists on the MOS page, and why the RFC outcome is phrased the way it is. I have no interest in going back and forth with you removing disallowed tags from a single page, but you should not be surprised when small tags continue to be removed from infoboxes by other editors. – Jonesey95 (talk) 05:37, 26 February 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply]

No, Neutralhomer, you're wrong. ―Mandruss ☎ 06:21, 27 February 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Mandruss: Would you like to expand on that or is this just a "drive by 'you're wrong'"? - Neutralhomer • Talk • 19:20 on February 27, 2019 (UTC)

@Mandruss: Cute! So, you both change MOS:SMALLFONT so it reads how you want it to, so you can revert without consequence. Yeah, don't think so. I'll give you a chance to change it back, before I take you both to ANI. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 19:25 on February 27, 2019 (UTC)

The SMALLFONT changes were mere clarification and there was nothing improper about that. The previous language was clear enough for all but you, as far as I know. I don't know how much you know about accessibility, but you're effectively saying that it shouldn't matter whether the visually impaired can easily read everything in media article infoboxes. That argument is never going to fly because Wikipedia takes accessibility seriously, but feel free to waste your time at ANI. I credit you for at least having the sense not to edit-war this, and I appreciate that. ―Mandruss ☎ 19:42, 27 February 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Mandruss: I have Aspergers, so don't lecture me on "accessibility". A 10 point to 9 point font size difference is not going to make any difference for someone who is visually impaired. A 10 point font, which is want is used in infoboxes, will be hard for those with visual challenges to see. A 9 point font size, which is what a small tagged text is, will be just as hard for someone with visual challenges to see. So, accessibility is not really the question here unless we make all infoboxes at least 24 point. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 19:47 on February 27, 2019 (UTC)

The guideline is what it is, it has been in place for years, and it has very wide support. I have removed smalls from hundreds of infoboxes in the past year or two. If you have an issue with the guideline, ANI is hardly the place to raise it. Go ahead and dispute it at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Text formatting; if you are successful in getting the guideline changed, I will go directly to that article and revert myself. Until then, please observe the guideline as written. I think that's fair. ―Mandruss ☎ 19:55, 27 February 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The previous MOS text about the font size never dropping below 85% of the page's default size was clear to me, but since you were apparently having trouble interpreting it (or possibly having trouble using your web browser's Inspector feature to see the rendered font size, which is understandable), I thought it might not be clear enough for other editors as well. I chose to make it say the same thing, but in a more explicit and prescriptive way that more editors would be able to understand. Thank you for bringing this lack of clarity to light.

In your ANI report, please also note that I clarified the text at Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Accessibility#Font size as well, since at the root of the problem with nested small font formatting is the issue of accessibility. Text that is too small contravenes the WMF's policy on non-discrimination against people with disabilities.

As for your estimates of font sizes above, here is how infoboxes and small tags interact in the English Wikipedia. Normal text in infoboxes is rendered at 88% of the browser's default size. Small tags reduce text to 85% of what it otherwise would be, so a small tag used on normal infobox text ends up at 1.0*0.88*0.85 = 0.748. That's too small, per our accessibility guideline. You are welcome to include these calculations in your ANI report. – Jonesey95 (talk) 20:00, 27 February 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply]

FWIW: For another editor (an admin who has been editing heavily since 2009) who feels these changes are both correct and worth their time, see Special:Contributions/Muboshgu. So there are at least three experienced editors who don't know what we're doing, according to you. ―Mandruss ☎ 20:24, 27 February 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I nominated the above for deletion, & I noticed you had commented on an earlier proposal for deletion, so I wanted to make you aware of this.Stereorock (talk) 11:07, 15 March 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Stereorock: No worries. :) Thanks for letting me know. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 19:04 on March 15, 2019 (UTC)

Awesome

Ten years!

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:51, 29 March 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Precious

Seven years!

Great performance ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:55, 8 April 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Radio expert: I translated a radio resenter article, Carmen Thomas, and her weekly show was Hallo Ü-Wagen, Ü-Wagen short for Übertragungswagen [de], the car broadcasters use to move with equipment - can't believe there's no English article. What is it in English, and is there also a similar colloquial abbreviation? - See my talk for trust pictured ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:00, 8 April 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hey Gerda Arendt, first off, sorry for the delay in saying Thank You! for the Barnstar x10 Years and the Precious x7 Years. Very much appreciated! :) Second, "Übertragungswagen" translates (according to Google Translate) to "Radio Van" and "Hallo" is, easy enough "Hello". So, "Ü-Wagen" is a shortened version of "Radio Van", so "Hallo Ü-Wagen" is "Hello Radio Van". :) German Wikipedia does translate "Übertragungswagen" as "broadcasting trucks", but I feel comfortable with "radio van". - Neutralhomer • Talk • 11:47 on April 8, 2019 (UTC)

Thank you, that helps, - and no need to feel sorry ;) - Is it right to say "a radio van", but Hello Radio Van, as kind of "person"? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:58, 8 April 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Again, I'm going by Google Translate, which isn't always the best. I did ask a German speaker here on English Wikipedia (Llez) for some translation help. So, we'll wait and see what they have to say. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 12:22 on April 8, 2019 (UTC)

Hallo, according to my dictionary, an "Ü-Wagen" is an "outside broadcasting van" (or also possible "broadcasting van"). I hope this will help you, otherwise contact me again. --Llez (talk) 13:09, 8 April 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Thank you Llez. Much appreciated! :) Gerda Arendt, there ya go. So much for Google Translate. :D - Neutralhomer • Talk • 13:12 on April 8, 2019 (UTC)

Deeple also gives "broadcasting van" or "broadcast van". I think the "outside" is competely redundant, or would you drive inside with a van. I think "radio van" is perfect for my purpose, because the series is radio, not tv, and the shortness matches "Ü-Wagen" best. It also can't be too wrong as we have Packet Radio Van. Thank you, both. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:20, 8 April 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Gerda Arendt: You could mention both in the article if you wish. That way all bases are covered. :) - Neutralhomer • Talk • 13:29 on April 8, 2019 (UTC)

Thanks, but I only have to translate the show title, and don't think radio van would be misunderstood. What would Broadcasting van redirect to? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:31, 8 April 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply]

We used to have a page for broadcast live trucks, but we don't anymore. So, radio van will have to do. :) - Neutralhomer • Talk • 13:53 on April 8, 2019 (UTC)

Next question: that type of show, when the radio van goes to a place, and local people are invited to discuss one announced topic with experts - is there a name in English? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:37, 8 April 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I would go with "travelling talk radio". I would link it as Travelling Talk radio. For a more in-depth lede sentence, I would go with "Hello Radio Van is a travelling talk radio show, featuring local residents of the ever-changing weekly(?) location, discussing a wide range of topics with experts." - Neutralhomer • Talk • 13:53 on April 8, 2019 (UTC)

Very good! - Could you support my friend's RfA? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:10, 8 April 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The show is on the Main page now, DYK, with Carmen Thomas? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:16, 7 May 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply]

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is "Concerns Regarding User:Bbb23 and Possible Misuse of Admin/CU Abilities". Thank you. Notifying you as I started a subthread and you may assume it is closed. Nil Einne (talk) 10:27, 10 April 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I'm sorry about your pet, losing one is like losing our family. I'm worried about my older dog who probably has about a 3-4 year window if we are lucky :(. Don't give up, take a break and then continue on Wikipedia needs good editors and you've shown dedication for many years. Hell in a Bucket (talk) 20:01, 10 April 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hell in a Bucket: Thanks. She passed on Thursday morning. She beat the vet, actually. She went out on her terms. I'm still in shock. I keep looking for her, made chicken and bowties for dinner last night and pulled a couple pieces of chicken out for her before I realized what I was doing. I'm a mess. I hope your dog makes it way longer than those 4 years. Sometimes they surprise us and keep on going. We have one cat (the only one we have left now), she's 19, she's just a 5 pound fluff of fur. We thought she'd be the first to go cause she was always so thin and she has feline dementia. Nope, she keeps on going. So, animals will surprise you. :) - Neutralhomer • Talk • 14:30 on April 15, 2019 (UTC)

	I'm so sorry
	Losing a pet is devastating. I'm so sorry about your cat! Schazjmd (talk) 20:40, 10 April 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I was very sorry to hear about your cat; one of life's sorrows is going through generations of pets. FWIW, we've always gone straight to the animal shelter; it's not a replacement, but something constructive to do with your grief. Take care and all the best, Miniapolis 22:41, 10 April 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Schazjmd and Miniapolis: Thanks to you both. I don't know if I'm ready for another. All her stuff is exactly where it was on Thursday when she passed away. I can't bear to move any of it. Maybe one day, but for now, I just can't. But I'll keep the idea open. :) - Neutralhomer • Talk • 14:30 on April 15, 2019 (UTC)

I felt the same way when my dog died, Neutralhomer, it's a wrenching pain at first. Give yourself all the time you need to grieve. If there are times when you feel like you really need to express your pain but don't want to impose it on friends or family, try the boards at Rainbow Bridge -- it really can help. Schazjmd (talk) 15:09, 15 April 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I understand; we all grieve in our own way. Take care and all the best, Miniapolis 15:39, 15 April 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I'm so sorry about your cat. They always break our hearts. We lost the best cat EVER a year ago next month, and I still miss her daily. --valereee (talk) 11:51, 21 April 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Valereee I am very sorry for your loss as well. Though, we never really lose them, they just go on a journey and we see them again later. Until then, they are always with us when we need them. :) - Neutralhomer • Talk • 23:56 on April 21, 2019 (UTC)

bsd. Hi. I saw you reverted my edit to the above mentioned file. Separate rationales are only needed for non-free images. Since I changed the license to PD-text (which basically means it's ineligible for copyright) all it needs is a file summary, not a rationale, and can therefore be grouped into a single template. --Ben Stone 02:24, 17 April 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Benstown: OK, I don't think some will see it that way. There are a few that are real sticklers for FURs on everything, but I, personally, have no issues with it. I'll revert my revert. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 03:02 on April 17, 2019 (UTC)

Thank you! --Ben Stone 03:06, 17 April 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply]

You're Welcome. :) - Neutralhomer • Talk • 03:08 on April 17, 2019 (UTC)

I don't remember why it was that I tripped across it, but I noticed that you'd deleted your To-Do List and Pages Created sub-pages a little while back. Surprised me a bit, and of course I'm not around nearly as often as I used to be, so I just wanted to check in and see how you'd been doing. Mlaffs (talk) 03:17, 21 April 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Mlaffs: Yeah, I just decided to take a much less visible and much needed step back after getting attacked by an anon user and when I took that user to ANI, everyone came to that user's defense. The anon vandalize numerous pages left and right, edit-warred, was in violation of 3RR, and then when he got his way, he stopped editing. Then, as I was deleting my pages I got blocked for 24 hours for "clumsiness". I was ultimately unblocked, but that just added insult to injury. This and the thread below.

Then, just last week, I tried to take care of a sockpuppeteer and was stonewalled by an admin (actually a long-standing stonewalling), I tried to deal with it in person and later at AN. Got attacked even more. The whole thing blew up but went away because my cat passed away on April 11. I think they left me alone after that. Just the whole thing with the anon and getting attacked every 4 seconds, I don't do much but some gnome-ish edits here and there. It isn't fun anymore. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 04:57 on April 21, 2019 (UTC)

Man, I'm sorry to hear that. Your cat especially, but all the drama too. Nobody needs that. You're absolutely right — this should be fun. Mlaffs (talk) 12:55, 21 April 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Thanks! I'm still lost without her. She'd sit on my lap (making my legs go numb) and I'd edit whatever or watch TV on my computer. She was my constant companion after my orange cat passed in 2015. I'm taking it really hard. :( As for Wikipedia, I can do gnome-ish edits and be OK with it. I don't really mind. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 23:59 on April 21, 2019 (UTC)

Nice work. Thanks for the disambiguation page. I see the necessity! Zaslav (talk) 22:27, 30 April 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Zaslav Thanks, glad I could help. :) - Neutralhomer • Talk • 22:42 on April 30, 2019 (UTC)

I've actually been doing some article creation lately – stubs, but less red is always better. Thought you'd be interested to know that I got West Virginia down to just two low-powered stations left, but I can't find anything at all about them beyond the standard holy trinity. Certainly not enough to add any kind of flesh to an article. Mlaffs (talk) 02:44, 15 July 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Mlaffs: I think WTUB-LP and WULL-LP are simulcasters of WYAP-LP. All three stations are located in the VERY rural Clay County, West Virginia.

The former two were mentioned are on WYAP's website as their towers went up and signals went on. Since I can't find any mention of the other two outside of WYAP, that's what leads me to believe they are simulcasters.

I am streaming WYAP now and it's right before the top of the hour (almost 1a EST on 7/15). Hopefully they have a correct legal top of the hour ID with all three IDs. That will make them all easy to create, not to source though. :S - Neutralhomer • Talk • 04:51 on July 15, 2019 (UTC)

Thank you for your good advice, - the show's article was on the Main page yesterday, quite successfully so. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:23, 28 July 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hi there! A few days ago I updated the WMXH-FM to reflect the station's new format (it is now a simulcast of WPER as of April 17), For some reason it now says on the references page "Cite error: A list-defined reference named "FCC" is not used in the content (see the help page)". I tried to fix this myself but couldn't, needless to say I am VERY confused. Could you please see what you can do? Thanks!!-VarietyPerson (talk) 22:54, 5 October 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply]

What happened is you removed one of the references that was named "FCC". While the reference itself remained at the bottom, there wasn't anything within the text for it to link to, hence the error. I added the link within the text and all is working as it should. All it was was a link to WMXH's FCC page. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 12:19 on October 6, 2019 (UTC)

Based on your participation in an earlier discussion, you are invited to comment at WNGH-TV#RfC about TV and radio station style variances. Thanks. – Reidgreg (talk) 19:09, 27 December 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply]

• Census QuickFacts
• Social Capital Variables Spreadsheet for 2014, PennState College of Agricultural Sciences, Northeast Regional Center for Rural Development
• Social Capital Project: Social Capital Index Data spreadsheet accompanying the U.S. Congress, Joint Economic Committee, Social Capital Project. “The Geography of Social Capital in America.” Report prepared by the Vice Chairman’s staff, 115th Cong., 2nd Sess. (April 2018)
• Religious statistics by county
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• ebird, gives bird species lists for each county
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• Mycoportal, search to generate fungus and bryophyte species lists
• NASS QuickStats database, gives agricultural figures by county for many data points
• bestplaces.net--Epiphyllumlover (talk) 21:35, 31 December 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply]

A Note of Caution. Since you have asserted at Talk:Pauley Perrette, "I am actively trying to communicate with the asexual community on Twitter right now to help them understand the goings-on here at Wikipedia," please be aware it may be problematic to directly contact the subject of a WP:BLP off-wiki, identifying yourself as a Wikipedia editor and requesting information to supplement an on-wiki discussion in which you are involved. Even if the BLP subject responds wholeheartedly, such public communications (potentially read by, among others, the 738K followers of Pauley Perrette's Twitter account) may also be seen as an attempt to influence a Wikipedia community debate by recruiting new or existing users to support your point of view. Be aware that the Wikipedia guideline WP:STEALTH discourages stealth canvassing—i.e., contacting users off-wiki to persuade them to join in discussions. NedFausa (talk) 06:59, 22 January 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@NedFausa: Actually, I am contacting multiple groups on Twitter (along with Ms. Perrette) who are in an uproar over this. They didn't understand what was going on. So, I explained things, how we (Wikipedia) works. Secondary sources and all that. Folks did seem to understand, but they are still hurt. They feel like this is "asexual eraser" and I understand where they are coming from. A clearly understood meaning ("ace"), used in the Asexuality page and referenced, Ms. Perrette follows 11 other asexuality pages on Twitter, I mean, what else could she be referencing? But why are we asking?

Someone brought up a good point, if she said If someone came out saying “Gays, it is me” in a tweet and then changed their bio to say “Gay.” as well, would you not allow their page to be edited to say they “came out as homosexual” until “it gets reported” despite it coming from the person themself in two separate places?. I think not. Wikipedia would be done in the eyes of the media and everyone. That celeb would sic their followers on Wikipedia. It would be over. So why must Ms. Perrette have to jump through hoops for coming out as Asexual? By extension, why must I not quell, what is that very same upset on Twitter, because I'm being "STEALTH"?

Point of fact, I mentioned in my tweet, who I was on Wikipedia, so I outed my own Wikipedia account on Twitter, there was no stealth there. Plus, one person from that group had already joined the conversation prior to my explaining the goings on of Wikipedia. So, I didn't encourage that person to come here. I also showed people where the discussion was. I didn't say "come here and share your voice", no. I shared the link. BIG difference. Mole hill, meet Mountain, because that's what you are trying to make and it ain't working.

Back to the bigger point. Why is no one taking Ms. Perrette following the 11 asexuality pages on Twitter seriously? Why are we having to wait for an "unambiguous reference"? Would we do the same for a gay person? A lesbian person? A trans person? Is Wikipedia suffering from a little aphobia? Maybe we are being different to one group of people when we wouldn't to another? I think we need to look at ourselves, a good hard look. Because we wouldn't do this to anyone in the LGBT community, but why the IAQ part? - Neutralhomer • Talk • 18:19 on January 22, 2020 (UTC)

Neutralhomer, I urge you to be cautious. As for a "lesbian person", please consider the case of Jodie Foster. Literally years of discussion took place on the talk page of her article and repeated attempts to call her a lesbian were reverted because the quality of the sourcing was poor. So the answer is, yes, unambiguous self-identification is required to say that a person is gay or lesbian or transgender or Jewish or Presbyterian or Buddhist or atheist. Or asexual. This is not negotiable and so do not add that content back without a better reference.

The fact that she follows asexual Twitter accounts is evidence of nothing. I follow several transgender people on social media and I am not transgender. Concluding that she is asexual because of who she follows is original research and completely unacceptable.

If a reporter for a reliable source asks her to clarify and she unambiguously self-identifies as asexual, then the matter can be revisited at that time. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 23:55, 22 January 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Cullen328: That's surprising and we failed there too. I would like to know where WP:TWITTER comes into play? That is an extension of WP:V. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 01:19 on January 23, 2020 (UTC)

"Aces, it is actually me" is most definitely not an unambiguous self-identification. Even if we accept that she is probably using "Aces" as a synonym for asexual people, she has not said "I am an ace". You have repeatedly pointed out that she follows asexual Twitter accounts. Perhaps she is addressing those people to reassure them that she is an actual follower of those Twitter accounts and that it isn't a fake PP account. There are several of them on Twitter. The sentence is vague, ambiguous and cryptic. It is insufficient for the content you wish to add. I intend to enforce BLP policy in this matter. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 01:34, 23 January 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Cullen328: But, as we can prove, just by looking at the account, it's a verified account. Notice the blue and white checkmark. So, it's not a fake. Plus, we use the term "ace" in our own article on Asexuality. So, I am not seeing how this is a problem. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 01:44 on January 23, 2020 (UTC)

Please stay on track here, Neutralhomer. I have never challenged the validity of the tweet. I have never contested that asexual is one of the many definitions of the word "ace" (although that word also means "close friend" and that usage is much older). So please do not waste my time with strawman arguments. The problem is the vague, ambiguous and cryptic nature of the tweet. There is no way that tweet can be read as an unambiguous declaration that she is asexual, and it is therefore inadequate as a reference for that claim on Wikipedia. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 02:13, 23 January 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I'm not wasting your time, sorry you think I am. I'm trying to have a discussion. I believe saying that it's not unambiguous is challanging the validity of the tweet. To me, we are saying she isn't saying what she is saying. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 02:21 on January 23, 2020 (UTC)

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. --Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 03:45, 23 January 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Well, it's all snowballed. Now it's happening at Emilie Autumn, Janeane Garofalo, and Mary Cagle, if you're interested. Adam9007 (talk) 01:00, 24 January 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Nice bit of canvassing there, Adam9007. 165.120.15.119 (talk) 01:02, 24 January 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Oh please... I just thought he might be interested in it, seeing as it's closely related to the kerfuffle he's involved in (note that I haven't asked him to say or do anything; I just pointed it out to him). Adam9007 (talk) 01:05, 24 January 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Did you point it out to any of the other participants (i.e. ones not supporting your viewpoint?) 165.120.15.119 (talk) 01:07, 24 January 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I think most of them are already aware (is there anyone who hasn't edited those pages or the BLP noticeboard discussion)? Adam9007 (talk) 01:09, 24 January 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Is this good enough? Adam9007 (talk) 01:13, 24 January 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

165.120.15.119, I was offline and I made it known I would be, so I thank Adam9007 for letting me know about this. It's not canvassing, it's just a heads up. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 02:25 on January 24, 2020 (UTC)

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Here is the link. NedFausa (talk) 06:02, 24 January 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

--Guerillero | Parlez Moi 19:35, 24 January 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Guerillero: I would like to be clear on this, am I being told not to edit the Pauley Perrette, Emilie Autumn, Janeane Garofalo, and Mary Cagle pages (along with their respective talk pages) and the discussions currently going on on various pages under threat of sanctions? - Neutralhomer • Talk • 02:20 on January 25, 2020 (UTC)

• Re: Cullen328, Ritchie333, Masem. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 02:31 on January 25, 2020 (UTC)

Pinging like this doesn't work; it has to be on a new, signed, comment. Adam9007 (talk) 02:27, 25 January 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I thought they could just be added in. I learned something today. :) - Neutralhomer • Talk • 02:31 on January 25, 2020 (UTC)

Unfortunately, they can't. See Help:Fixing failed pings. Adam9007 (talk) 02:32, 25 January 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Is it correct now? - Neutralhomer • Talk • 02:39 on January 25, 2020 (UTC)

This looks okay, but you might want to enable the setting that tells you if your ping was successful (I forget where it is off the top of my head :(). Adam9007 (talk) 02:48, 25 January 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

It's at preferences -> notifications -> successful mention. Adam9007 (talk) 02:51, 25 January 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I don't think that warning is saying you cannot edit those pages, just that simply, because this is the BLP topic area, there are discretionary sanctions that can be imposed by any admin who feels your editors run against the results and motions set by Arbcom in the linked case. (but I don't know for sure if that's Guerillero's effect). --Masem (t) 02:41, 25 January 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Well, I believe this was thrown at me (and only me) to shut me up. Notice how no one else got this on their talk pages and got a public threat of a topic ban. Just sayin'. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 02:50 on January 25, 2020 (UTC)

You are being asked to stop treating Wikipedia as a battleground or a fight. Failing to do that will result in your ejection from the parts of Wikipedia where you are displaying that behavior. --Guerillero | Parlez Moi 02:42, 25 January 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Neutralhomer, I do not know why you pinged me. I told you that I had already said everything I intended to say about Pauley Perette, at least until significant new information emerges. I am not the type of editor who enjoys repeating myself over and over and over again. Your repetitive remarks have not changed my mind, and my previous remarks stand. So please ping me if there is something new and substantive to discuss, but until then, I am done with this. Thank you. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 02:44, 25 January 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Cullen328: It appeared Guerillero was offline, so I pinged you for an answer since I knew you were around. That's why I pinged you. He answered, so you weren't needed. Apologizes. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 02:46 on January 25, 2020 (UTC)

@Guerillero: That is not what I asked. I will ask again, and I would like a "yes" or "no" answer. Am I being told not to edit the Pauley Perrette, Emilie Autumn, Janeane Garofalo, and Mary Cagle pages (along with their respective talk pages) and the discussions currently going on on various pages under threat of sanctions? - Neutralhomer • Talk • 02:46 on January 25, 2020 (UTC)

No, but you need to edit collegially with the understanding that the people you may disagree with are here to build an encyclopedia. --Guerillero | Parlez Moi 02:56, 25 January 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Guerillero: Good. My next question is why this was only placed on my talk page (and no one else's) and why I only got the public threat of a topic ban. No one has been collegial in this entire thing. This has been a mess and we are all to blame. So why just me? Why target me? - Neutralhomer • Talk • 03:02 on January 25, 2020 (UTC)

Point out where I have not been collegial. Diffs, please. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 03:16, 25 January 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Your battleground behavior and personal attacks at Talk: Pauley Perrette are completely unacceptable. You must comply with BLP policy now and in the future, and must refrain from all personal attacks on other editors. This is not negotiable. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 07:31, 26 January 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Cullen328: Excuse me! I make one post, responding to Ned's behavior on this entire thing, this entire discussion, but my behavior is out of line? No.

Am I in violation of the harrassment policy or the BLP policy, but you are quoting both, but blocking me for only one. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 11:46 on January 26, 2020 (UTC)

Cullen328, (or any admin) remember how you said "if there is something new and substantive to discuss, but until then, I am done with this" and then immediately after my post saying "No one has been collegial in this entire thing", you replied Point out where I have not been collegial. Diffs, please.? I believe you and I are too tightly connected for you to make a block of me. This would be a prime example of a bad block and misuse of admin tools.

You clearly stated you were going to walk away, then immediately came back. Like you were itching for a fight. I didn't take you up on that invitation (though this would be an example of you not being "collegial"), but now you are the one to block me? Bad move. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 11:57 on January 26, 2020 (UTC)

I won't review this request - but I will give you some (hopefully helpful) feedback. Much of your request seems to focus on the behavior of others, instead of addressing your own behavior. This typically does not lead to a favorable result for the blocked user, in my experience. SQL^{Query me!} 16:37, 26 January 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@SQL: I didn't expect anything favorable. I am not going to address my behavior because Cullen misused his tools. But, we won't talk about that either. I expected that too. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 20:55 on January 26, 2020 (UTC)

'IP editor' accused of harassment above here. That Neutralhomer considers this post [1] by me to constitute 'harassment' is absurd. I stated that the 'bashing' mentioned in earlier posts was irrelevant, and then commented solely on the validity and appropriateness of the sources under discussion. As for the second post [2], if Neutralhomer considers my characterisation as 'pestering' of his Tweeting the subject of the article in an unsuccessful attempt to get her confirm her sexuality to constitute 'harassment' I can only suggest that others might see his own behaviour in this instance to be of much more concern. It seems self-evident at this point that either Neutralhomer cannot distinguish between a valid dispute over article content and actual harassment, or that Neutralhomer knows full well that they aren't the same thing, but uses such accusations to try to game the system, in a similar manner to the earlier evidence-free SPI [3] apparently was. I see nothing wrong with Cullen's block, but if another admin thinks it appropriate to review it, I have little doubt that they will reach the same conclusion as to its validity. And may well see this ridiculous attempt to portray an entirely legitimate posting as 'harassment' as grounds to extend the block. 165.120.15.119 (talk) 16:44, 26 January 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Literally none of those diffs you cite can be fairly read as harassment. I don't know why you've chosen this hill to die on, but you seriously need to step back, take a break, put the computer down, and come back to edit some different topics. It's clear to literally everyone else that you're acting inappropriately here. NorthBySouthBaranof (talk) 17:11, 26 January 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@NorthBySouthBaranof: It's clear to literally no one that that two editors, NedFausa and 165.120.15.119 continue to harrass and HOUND me across different pages, but I can't defend myself, and they aren't blocked...or even warned. So why is my behavior special? - Neutralhomer • Talk • 20:55 on January 26, 2020 (UTC)

I would like to point out that all of my participation in the Pauley Perrette matter has been in an administrative role to explain and enforce BLP policy. I have no interest in the article other than that. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 17:32, 26 January 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Meaning you were WP:INVOLVED and shouldn't have made the block....period. BLP DS states "uninvolved administrators", you yourself just said "[your] participation in the Pauley Perrette matter has been in an administrative role to explain and enforce BLP policy". That "participation" is your involvement in the matter. You know you shouldn't have blocked me and you can hide behind semantics, but you are wrong. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 20:55 on January 26, 2020 (UTC)

You are incorrect. WP:INVOLVED says: One important caveat is that an administrator who has interacted with an editor or topic area purely in an administrative role, or whose prior involvements are minor or obvious edits which do not show bias, is not involved and is not prevented from acting in an administrative capacity in relation to that editor or topic area. Warnings, calm and reasonable discussion and explanation of those warnings, advice about community norms, and suggestions on possible wordings and approaches do not make an administrator 'involved'. I am uninvolved, because all of my interactions with you have been in a purely administrative role, beginning with enforcing BLP policy and now blocking you for harassment and personal attacks on another editor. You are welcome to submit another unblock request to be evaluated by another administrator. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 21:28, 26 January 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Cullen328: Oh please, we both know you weren't acting in a "purely administrative role" and you know it. You were involved in the discussion (as an admin or not) and that made you INVOLVED. You should have let someone else make the block...or you remove the block as "time served". I'm topic banned, this is over. I can't do anything else. So, this block, it's now moved from preventative to punitive. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 22:51 on January 26, 2020 (UTC)

I am not involved. Period. You are welcome to file another unblock request for another administrator to evaluate. Once you are unblocked, you are free to file a compliant against me at a noticeboard. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 23:00, 26 January 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Cullen328: It would go a long way to showing how "not involved" you are if you were to remove the now punitive block that you placed on my account. Since you are the blocking admin, I am talking to you. I don't need an unblock request for that. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 23:03 on January 26, 2020 (UTC)

I will not unblock you unless you address the reason for the block, namely your personal attacks on another editor. I need solid and sincere assurances that you will not resume that type of behavior. Or, you can convince another administrator. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 23:23, 26 January 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Cullen328: I will do no such thing when you can't answer why two editors, NedFausa and 165.120.15.119 continue to harrass and HOUND me across different pages and they aren't blocked...or even warned. Answer me that. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 23:34 on January 26, 2020 (UTC)

I tried that "but other guys do it too" defense with my mother about 60 years ago. It didn't work with her and it doesn't work with me. This block and this conversation is about your behavior and that is what you must address in order to be unblocked. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 23:38, 26 January 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The whole "let's deflect a question with a question" didn't work on my Mom or my Dad, doesn't work with me, doesn't work with the people who work for me (they'd get wrote up or canned). So, how about you answer the question? - Neutralhomer • Talk • 23:42 on January 26, 2020 (UTC)

You will have to ask another administrator. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 00:00, 27 January 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Cullen328: You want me to ask another admin to answer a question that only you can answer. Right. That's gonna be a little difficult.

But since you did give me permission and since you have now violated another rule (WP:NOPUNISH, on top of INVOLVED) by continuing this block as it has now gone into the punitive state (I am topic banned from the page and the block is for "battlefield behavior at Talk:Pauley Perrette"), I will be more than happy to add this to the complaint I will file against you when the block concludes (remember, you did give me permission).

...or you can answer my question. Why block me and allow NedFausa and and 165.120.15.119 continue to harrass and HOUND me across multiple pages and continue this same topic on various other pages (WP:TE?) without so much as a warning from you? If you are uninvolved, why did you not issue them a warning or even a block? You can't be neutral and uninvolved when you block one and not another. Answer the question, stop evading. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 01:06 on January 27, 2020 (UTC)

I am not your "warn or block on demand" service, and I am entirely free to choose which administrative matters I want to get involved with, and which I choose not to get involved with. Nobody I know of agrees with you that the others you mention have been harassing or hounding you, but I am not interested in delving deeply into all their edits. I do not have the time or the interest for that today. The subject at hand is your behavior which you have consciously chosen not to address. Unless you do so, your block will run its full course. So, if you want to get unblocked earlier, convince me that your harassment and personal attacks will not resume. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 01:17, 27 January 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Cullen328: Thank you for finally answering my question....only took a bajillion tries. Now to yours: as you see below, I am physically unable to edit the Pauley Perrette page or talk page. For which I was blocked, "battlefield behavior at Talk:Pauley Perrette", can not be done. It's been banned. I have addressed this multiple times across multiple edits....multiple-ly. So, if a topic ban doesn't convince you, take a tweet from my own Twitter account: "So, I can edit no longer on that page and any edit I make on BLP pages will be monitored it appears. So, basically it's a veiled warning to stay off BLPs. So, that ends that." and the follow up: "this is the end of the road on this one."

Now, that should be enough (if you had read the last 8 posts you'd have seen this earlier) to "convince" you. But please note, that this "convincing" will not stop me from filing a complaint against you for this block clearly moving into the punitive category. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 01:33 on January 27, 2020 (UTC)

Oh and I don't care what anyone thinks of me or if they are agree with me. What other people think, say, or do is immaterial to my life. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 01:36 on January 27, 2020 (UTC)

My impression is that Cullen328 acted in their capacity as an uninvolved admin. The evidentiary basis for anything but that seems to rest on really shaky grounds. El_C 01:37, 27 January 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Yes, you are topic banned from that particular article. But personal attacks and battleground behavior can occur anywhere. You have still not addressed your own behavior and have not made a commitment to stop the personal attacks on other editors. So, your request to be unblocked is denied. Please feel free to file a complaint against me. I welcome the scrutiny and am confident that my conduct in this matter has been correct. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 01:42, 27 January 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Cullen328: There is no commitment to make because I was topic banned from one page, the page you blocked me for "battlefield behavior" from. Sorry, you can't go back on that now. Nor would I make a "commitment" (which I, again, can't make) to an INVOLVED admin.

@El C:, you're INVOLVED too, but only mildly, you did add the BLP DS template to the Pauley Perrette talk page discussion. I'm willing to overlook that, though, since that appears to be the only edit you made in any discussion, so you were just doing your ArbCom job and plus, you've been polite, so I appreciate that. Maybe you'd be willing to discuss this entire thing in a more polite manner than Cullen and I have? - Neutralhomer • Talk • 02:19 on January 27, 2020 (UTC)

Taking an administrative task that pertain to the page does not make me involved. El_C 02:20, 27 January 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@El C: Actually I said "mildly" involved and only because you were doing your ArbCom job. I overlooked it because you didn't edit further after that. I gave you credit on those facts. I was just saying how appearances could be made. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 03:45 on January 27, 2020 (UTC)

I am indefinitely topic banning you from Pauley Perrette under the BLP DS. This due to your continued battlefield behavior that I warned you about. Several people have asked you nicely to take a step back from this topic and you have refused. You therefore leave me no choice but to topic ban you. When your block for personal attacks on the talk page of this very biography expires you can appeal this restriction in the ways outlined in the procedure. (Any appeals to me in less than 30 days will be denied.) I am going to look dimly upon any attempts to import this outlook to other biographies or other parts of the encyclopedia. --Guerillero | Parlez Moi 21:33, 26 January 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

A sockpuppet investigation involving you has been started. NedFausa (talk) 06:12, 30 January 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hi there. As an update to User talk:Neutralhomer/Archive14#Awesome Wikipedian template, just to let you know that I restored the content of the template to Template:User Happy Me Day! and have updated the code where it was in use. Cordless Larry (talk) 10:20, 8 March 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Cordless Larry: Roger Wilco. :) - Neutralhomer • Talk • 15:15 on April 3, 2020 (UTC) • #StayAtHome

Hey you are welcome for the edits on WKAZ FM — Preceding unsigned comment added by WesleyWes304 (talk • contribs) 14:45, 3 April 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Precious

Eight years!

music on my talk, listen ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:23, 8 April 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Unfortunately, there is no justification for CSD deletion here. While the article may have been created by a sock, it was done before the they were blocked as a sock, meaning CSD G5 (creation by a blocked/banned editors) doesn't apply here. We could nominate it at AFD, if you like, but that would shut the door on the article rather permanently. My recommendation would be to just put an {{inuse}} template on it and switch out the old version for your version. Just remember, don't mark the switch as minor and use a good edit summary. TomStar81 (Talk) 08:03, 17 April 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I've updated the article alot in the last 48 hours, though I had to have a RevDel because of a real name issue that I wasn't aware of that popped up about 15 edits deep. :S Oh well, I had a sandbox copy and that worked. :) I have updated everything and from their last edit to the page to mine as of about 5 minutes ago, I'd say I made the article my own. :)

Glad we don't have to do that deletion/recreation thing. :) That's a GIGANTIC pain in the butt! :) Thanks for your assistance. :) - Neutralhomer • Talk • 08:09 on April 17, 2020 (UTC) • #StayAtHome

TomStar81, doesn't apply here? WP:EVASION clearly states, "It is not possible to revert newly created pages, as there is nothing to which to revert. Accordingly, pages created by blocked editors are eligible for speedy deletion. Any editor can use the template {{db-g5}}, or its shortcuts {{db-banned}} or {{db-blocked}}, to mark such a page. If editors other than the blocked editor have made substantial good-faith contributions to the page or its talk page, it is courteous to inform them that the page was created by a blocked editor, and then decide on a case-by-case basis what to do." Of course articles a sock created are deleted after the editor is discovered to be a sock. On the basis of G5, I've had a number of articles deleted after the sock was discovered to be a sock. The only way the editor could have created the article(s) while they were known to be a sock is if they hadn't yet been blocked. And in that case, either they were about to be blocked or another editor was gathering evidence on them.

Please don't ping me if you reply. I will check back for replies. Flyer22 Frozen (talk) 08:25, 17 April 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

And Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion#G5 states, "This applies to pages created by banned or blocked users in violation of their ban or block, and that have no substantial edits by others. G5 should not be applied to transcluded templates or to categories that may be useful or suitable for merging." By "banned or blocked users", it doesn't mean that the editor created the article with a blocked account. If that account is blocked, they obviously can't use that account. So they use a different one or an IP, which is where block evasion comes in. Wikipedia:Sock puppetry#Inappropriate uses of alternative accounts is clear that the block is on the person, not solely the account, which is why an editor using a new account doesn't absolve them of their block. Flyer22 Frozen (talk) 08:38, 17 April 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Flyer22 Frozen: If TomStar81, an admin, says it's OK, then I believe it's OK. That's why I asked an admin. Now, if he wants to CSD G5 the article, we can do that and I can come in behind and re-create it. I'd prefer, though, not to get into an arguement over it. How about we leave well enough alone? - Neutralhomer • Talk • 08:49 on April 17, 2020 (UTC) • #StayAtHome

Neutralhomer, I never stated that you needed to delete the article, now did I? I am correcting an admin. Admins are not above us. It's important to correct editors on matters such as these so that they don't go spreading their mistaken beliefs across Wikipedia. I can easily ping other admins, such as Berean Hunter (who is also a WP:CheckUser), to make clear that what I stated is correct. I could also post at Wikipedia talk:Criteria for speedy deletion about this and elsewhere for commentary from others. Flyer22 Frozen (talk) 08:57, 17 April 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Unfortunately, the only way to correct the issue is to do a CSD G5. That's where the deletion came in. This has been done in the past. It is rare, but it has been done. Though typically, if a long amount of time has passed and the article is notable, sourced, and doesn't have any issues, the creator of the article is overlooked. Now, if the article had like one source and was just created, it would be out the door, no discussion. It's a gray area. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 09:02 on April 17, 2020 (UTC) • #StayAtHome

I am going to lay down for a few. I'll be back up in a bit. If there is a decision regarding the potential deletion, please hold off until I get back up so we don't have a redlink sitting there for a long period of time. Thanks...Neutralhomer • Talk • 09:48 on April 17, 2020 (UTC) • #StayAtHome

Hi - hope you don't mind me butting in, I just wanted to clear up the point about G5 eligibility. If a page was created by a blocked user, using a sock to evade their block, then G5 definitely does apply even if the page was created before the account was identified as a sock: it's the date of the original block which matters, and deleting stuff created by block-evaders is largely why G5 exists. However, there's no need to worry in this case, because the other part of the G5 criteria is that the page must not have been edited substantially by others - this article has been edited by lots of people (including yourself), so a G5 would be declined. Hope that helps, cheers GirthSummit _(blether) 12:36, 18 April 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Girth Summit: That does help, actually. I was looking at this from both sides of the equation. 1) Since it's been so long and the page has been edited by so many people, it will be overlooked but, 2) I don't mind G5'ing it just to cover all the bases and make everyone happy. :) But if the G5 deletion isn't needed, then we are good to go. :) Thanks for your added input. Much appreciated. :) - Neutralhomer • Talk • 13:04 on April 18, 2020 (UTC) • #StayAtHome

You're welcome - happy to help! GirthSummit _(blether) 13:58, 18 April 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Thanks for weighing in, Girth.

Neutralhomer, regarding this, what I changed it to is correct WP:Indentation. But no biggie. Flyer22 Frozen (talk) 03:36, 19 April 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Please discontinue your abusive behavior. As you know, it was decided on the talk page some time ago that removing superfluous zeroes from the coordinates of radio stations has consensus, and is a routine calculation. Abductive (reasoning) 19:57, 18 April 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Abductive: Show this discussion because to my knowledge, none took place, and you have a history of trying to warp Wikipedia policy and history to fit your needs.

For the record, this isn't "abusive behavior", this is the behavior of an editor fed up with nonsense from someone who should know better...especially after being asked and told repeatedly, show policy after policy. But you refuse to conform to our rules and regulations. This isn't abusive, this is an editor who has reached the end of his rope. Should you feel that I am not showing you any "good faith", you're right. You exhausted all of which I had for you a LONG time ago. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 14:01 on April 19, 2020 (UTC) • #StayAtHome

The discussion was attended by you; Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Radio Stations/Archive 2010#radio station geocoordinates - two_requests. In it, User:Stepheng3 requests that precision level of .01 not be used, and that rounding is a routine calculation. User:Closeapple then concurs, and also states that s/he checks on Google Maps. User:Dravecky then chimes in with liking D/M/S. Accordingly, that makes three people who agree with not taking the FCC coordinates too literally, and not using ".00". With me, that makes it 4 to your one, a clear case of consensus. I will continue to correct coordinates as I see fit, and I encourage you to see the wisdom of it. Abductive (reasoning) 01:34, 22 April 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Abductive: First off, tread very lightly. Second, that conversation is from 2010. Third, Dravecky does not say he "likes" D/M/S, he says "I think all we WPRS folks need to know is the format of the template you'd like to see us using. At a guess, for a station in Alabama it would be... {{coord|0|0|0|N|0|0|0|W|type:landmark_region:US-AL_source:NAD27|display=inline}} ...(with the actual D/M/S in place of those 0s) but please correct me if I'm wrong." That was his only entry to that discussion.

Closeapple spoke before Dravecky and CA and I were actually discussing coords, which at the time the FCC used only NAD27 for their coords. They now use NAD83, but show both NAD27 and NAD83. Stepheng3 wanted to use WGS84, which is used by the World Geodetic System (a similar request to yours in fact). Dravecky and I both said, in our own ways, that the coords had to come from the FCC, but we were open to having a new template showing the WGS84 coords.

Again, that was 2010, when NAD27 was king. Now it's NAD84, making a template showing NAD27 and WGS84 coords unnecessary since the FCC perfers NAD84 coords and that's what we go by.

Once again, you have spun the timeline here to fit your own needs using a discussion from just over a decade ago, trying to put words in the mouths of people who aren't here to defend themselves. You have officially come to the end of my patience with you. Continue on this path, edit one more article like this, I will en masse revert every article you have touched, Warn4 you, and take you to ANI myself. Find a hole and stay in it. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 03:34 on April 22, 2020 (UTC) • #StayAtHome

No, what happened is that you choose to ignore that discussion, and try to impose your will on me years later in the hopes that I would not find it. You will not find consensus you that keeping .00 on the ends of coordinates is somehow justified by pointing to a crusty government database. Each step of the way, you have stubbornly wikilawyered, but without any support. The FCC database is a primary source. (Neutralhomer; "No its not!") Rounding is a WP:POLICY by WP:CALC. (Neutralhomer; "It doesn't count here for some reason!") Multiple people saying .00 is stupid and should be fixed. (Neutralhomer; "It's old and they don't count somehow!") Abductive (reasoning) 03:57, 22 April 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Abductive: No, what happened is you choose to piss off someone who is grieving of someone who is a far better man that you will EVER be. You have never had consensus for anything that you've come up with. You have ignored policy. You yourself just said "the FCC database is the primary source" (thank you!). But to bring up the name of someone who can't defend themselves, in a 10 year old discussion no less, is beyond heinous. You crossed a line in WPRS that you should have never crossed and you crossed it with me. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 04:38 on April 22, 2020 (UTC) • #StayAtHome

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Abductive (reasoning) 04:16, 22 April 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

FYI, if you hadn't already seen it, Copyright Term Extension Act is almost certainly the governing statute here as I think you said this was a pre-1978 work, and it was not in the public domain at time of passage of that Act.

It is confusing: a small number of works do fall into the gaps and end up being PD, but in general it's safe to assume, for the US, a bare minimum of 75 years or the life of the author plus 70 years. You may remember the stories on Jan 1 2019 about the release of 1923 works, after what was in effect a hiatus in works passing into the public domain. Guy (help!) 14:51, 23 April 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Do you think I can safely move my draft of WKCU to Article space? Thanks. User:Rudy2alan (talk)

@Rudy2alan: I completely brain-farted and forgot to take a look at that last night. Blame it on tacking on an extra year yesterday. :) I'll do that right now, then I'll move it. :) - Neutralhomer • Talk • 17:59 on April 25, 2020 (UTC) • #StayAtHome

@Rudy2alan: I couldn't do the move without majorly goofing things up, so I had to copy/paste it. Now, in the edit summary, I gave you full credit as author. :) You can find the page at WKCU. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 19:03 on April 25, 2020 (UTC) • #StayAtHome

I've always wondered why some article are stubs, like KCOL (AM) and some aren't, like WKCU, the article we just worked on? User:Rudy2alan (talk)

@Rudy2alan: Simply because someone hadn't removed the template at the bottom yet. :) I just did. :) - Neutralhomer • Talk • 14:00 on April 26, 2020 (UTC) • #StayAtHome

I was just thinking that I have never come across an fm translator which didn't broadcast in stereo; high fidelity is a given because it's FM. What a lost opportunity it would be for any FM not to broadcast in stereo; I saw a company online that sells FM transmitters and most came with built-in stereo exciters; all that's needed for hookup is the left and right audio, power line and antenna. I feel very confident that no one would question an FM being stereo. User:Rudy2alan (talk)

I hope I'm using the talk space correctly! I'm relatively new to Wikipedia. I'd love to move the article to the mainspace! --Kayla kas (talk) 15:13, 19 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Kayla kas: You are using talk space just fine. :) I will get the article moved over to mainspace for you momentarily. :) - Neutralhomer • Talk • 17:11 on May 19, 2020 (UTC) • #StayAtHome

Thank you so much for helping publish my article so quickly!

Kayla kas (talk) 17:21, 19 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Kayla kas: You are welcome. :) I added a couple categories at the bottom, which will help people find the article better and added a reflist template, which helps the references added throughout the article link better. Otherwise, it's just as you created it. :) If I can be of further assistance, please let me know. :) - Neutralhomer • Talk • 17:24 on May 19, 2020 (UTC) • #StayAtHome

Hey Neutralhomer, thanks for the kind words re: WAKR! It's very much appreciated... been an enjoyable experience putting together the past few months. I have indeed placed it for a GA nomination... also spent time going over and updating the tags on all citations, and added a few additional public domain pictures. :) Nathan Obral (talk) 16:42, 24 May 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Could you take a look at my latest draft? Feel free to add, subtract or suggest. User:Rudy2alan (talk)

Yeah, sure. :) I have a couple errands to run this morning, but when I get back, you'll be second in line. I have someone else who I am helping, but don't worry, I will help. :)

Just a heads up, Mlaffs has been off and on Wikipedia for the past few. He's been working different hours, so doesn't have alot of time to allot to Wikipedia. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 13:55 on June 19, 2020 (UTC) • #StayAtHome • #BlackLivesMatter

Thanks; no rush! Rudy2alan (talk) 18:02, 19 June 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Rudy2alan: Unless you have some history to add, I am finished. It's a stub, but it's a well-sourced stub. :) Once you or I create the article, I can add a logo, which I have ready to go. :) - Neutralhomer • Talk • 23:45 on June 19, 2020 (UTC) • #StayAtHome • #BlackLivesMatter

Thanks, and I'll move the draft to Article space. Did you find the logo at Ref. #8 (Texas-HPR Network)? That was the best one that I could find. Rudy2alan (talk) 12:13, 20 June 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Yup, that's the one I was going to use. :) - Neutralhomer • Talk • 18:18 on June 20, 2020 (UTC) • #StayAtHome • #BlackLivesMatter

@Rudy2alan: I added it for ya. :) - Neutralhomer • Talk • 19:41 on June 20, 2020 (UTC) • #StayAtHome • #BlackLivesMatter

Thanks for the help; the Article looks great! I think I should do an Article for the AM counterpart, KVWC (AM). Rudy2alan (talk) 20:27, 20 June 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Rudy2alan: You start it and it get to a point where you need me, let me know. :) - Neutralhomer • Talk • 20:28 on June 20, 2020 (UTC) • #StayAtHome • #BlackLivesMatter

Thanks, I will; I consider AM's to be underdogs in the broadcasting world. The management at WIBK (and WGFA-FM) are considering taking the AM off the air and using WGFA-FM HD2 as source for the country programming, but they said it costs a big chunk of money to go HD, so for now they haven't done anything. WGFA AM & FM is where I worked as chief engineer, morning announcer, lawn mower, plumber, etc. in the early 70's. I've visited then several times over the years. One of the original owners and sole owner now is Dick Martin; I had a nice visit with him a few years ago - he's 86 years old. His daughter Stacey Smith is the manager now. Rudy2alan (talk) 20:38, 20 June 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Yeah, in my area, they are mostly news/talk or religious. One went off the air and their license wasn't even renewed in October. At least they put the money into a translator. They ones in my area don't even do that. I figure more and more will fall silent in the next year with lack of ad dollars from COVID. In DC, WMAL 630 sold their tower site to a developer for, I think it was $75 million, and put their tower with another AM station (not owned by them). WMAL airs ESPN Sports in DC, used to be news/talk, but that went to FM. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 20:48 on June 20, 2020 (UTC) • #StayAtHome • #BlackLivesMatter

Here's another one for you to view, add to, correct, etc. I hope you find a website or good logo; the Facebook page shows a picture of a microphone. As before, no rush and thanks for helping! I would like to eventually write articles for the missing AM stations; this was the only one on 1520 AM without an article (in the United States). user:Rudy2alan (talk)

I'm proposing a redesign containing visual, technical and other improvements to {{Infobox radio station}} and {{Infobox broadcast}}. The discussion is located at Wikipedia:WikiProject Radio Stations/2020 infobox redesign proposal. As an editor active in editing radio and/or TV station articles, or in recent changes to the templates in question, I wanted to make you aware of this proposal and kindly ask for your feedback. Raymie (t • c) 05:37, 4 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Raymie: I can't see a radio station example of the radio station infobox for whatever reason. Is there anyway you can get that working? - Neutralhomer • Talk • 07:32 on July 4, 2020 (UTC) • #StayAtHome • #BlackLivesMatter

@Neutralhomer: There are about 12 of them at User:Nathan Obral/Infobox experiment/Example. Raymie (t • c) 15:58, 4 July 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

When you get time, could you polish these two drafts and move them to Article space? I'm not sure why these stations have been neglected; they are part of a small, but I think, important market. They don't have websites but do have Facebook pages with good logo images. user:Rudy2alan (talk)

@Rudy2alan: Done and Done. :) - Neutralhomer • Talk • 23:36 on July 21, 2020 (UTC) • #WearAMask • #BlackLivesMatter

Another new draft for you to peruse and polish; BTW, if you get weary of doing this I'm sure that Raymie or Mlaffs would be willing to help. Thanks in advance! user:Rudy2alan (talk)

There are problems with the programming section. It violates WP:NOTRADIOGUIDE because it includes showtimes; it is written in a promotional style (look at the Sunday morning show which has “killer jazz licks”); it is trivial at best, & an advertisement for the station at worst. When & who decides that this was an acceptable style? It’s OK to list notable shows, but when the station’s entire programming lineup is listed, that’s making Wikipedia a directory, even if it’s not in grid schedule form. Sorry if this comes across hostile, but this is the first that I’ve heard that this is all acceptable on Wikipedia, & am curious when & whom decided that. Thanks in advance for your reply! Stereorock (talk) 21:32, 2 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Stereorock: I did notice the "killer jazz licks" part. Unfortunately, I haven't had a moment to take a look at it and peel back the layers on that onion.

In real life, I'm a custodian for a public school system, specifically at an elementary school. If you remember the panic back in March, well, times that by 25 and put that in just one school and with just about 5 or 6 people and you will just approach the "proverbial chicken syndrome" that I've been dealing with not only last week, but even today. Yes, on a Sunday (I'm off weekends), and I'm low man on the totem pole. Seriously, everyone I work with needs to take a nice, cleansing deep breath. Teachers don't come back until August 24, kids don't come back until maybe September 8. I don't know what we are rushing around about.

So, a couple hours after I noticed that, I haven't had a chance to even begin to peel back the layers on that onion and fix those problems. I will, just give me a couple and I'll try and make it somewhat presentable. If not, you can just knock it out. At this point, I don't really care (it's been that bad of a day). - Neutralhomer • Talk • 21:59 on August 2, 2020 (UTC) • #WearAMask • #BlackLivesMatter

@Stereorock: I just ditched the programming section and gave the page a fresh coat of paint. Give 'em a listen, they are playin' a helluva section of oldies right now. Diggin' this stuff! - Neutralhomer • Talk • 22:34 on August 2, 2020 (UTC) • #WearAMask • #BlackLivesMatter

@Neutralhomer:No problem, man! You do good work here! I hope you’re staying safe, & I hope they do more teleteaching this year until COVID is all gone! My job is “essential” (repairing radios for the railroad), but there is some travel too, so we can be by ourselves. Stay safe, wear your mask, & thanks for the edits! Stereorock (talk) 22:49, 2 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

As safe as I can. :) Our system and the systems around us are giving parents a choice. Either 100% "distance learning" (aka: tele-teaching) or a "hybrid schedule". The latter is 2 days in-school and 3 days distance learning. Our system has 4,500 students. As of Friday, 2,200 had been signed up for distance learning. Closer to DC, they are going 100% distance learning, no hybrid schedule. The only reason we are is because our numbers are a tick lower than Northern Virginia's.

Don't worry, that mask stays on unless I can help it. :) I've technically had COVID (so have my parents, we are all OK), but I mask regardless. Hand washing, masks, the works. I have taught the whole school hospital-grade bio-protocols (I worked there a couple years back too).

Anyway, you stay safe as well. :) Take Care...Neutralhomer • Talk • 22:57 on August 2, 2020 (UTC) • #WearAMask • #BlackLivesMatter

Absolutely, this is NOT something that needs immediate attention; it's basically just a question about something that I noticed quite a while back. Do you know why reference #6 bleeds into the infobox for this article? User:Rudy2alan (talk)

I think this is an issue with my OS - Google Chrome. And it only shows up when I am logged in to Wikipedia; in fact, I have seen it only on the WGH (AM) article (no others).

@Rudy2alan: I have Firefox and it looks fine to me. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 01:09 on August 5, 2020 (UTC) • #WearAMask • #BlackLivesMatter

Another new draft, when you have the time. user:Rudy2alan (talk)

@Rudy2alan: I have Thursday and Friday off, after a VERY stressful week...and it isn't even Wednesday yet. So, I will take care of this one and KZAH then. :) - Neutralhomer • Talk • 01:09 on August 5, 2020 (UTC) • #WearAMask • #BlackLivesMatter

Thanks. I enjoy doing our collaborations. Rudy2alan (talk) 12:55, 5 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Rudy2alan: Sorry I didn't get to it over the weekend, but both are now done. :) It was that stressful of a week last week! Anyway, keep 'em comin'! This is fun! :) - Neutralhomer • Talk • 21:34 on August 10, 2020 (UTC) • #WearAMask • #BlackLivesMatter

I will continue on new articles; I enjoy doing articles for stations in smaller markets. They seem to be somewhat neglected in comparison to the larger markets. user:Rudy2alan (talk)

@Rudy2alan: Okie Dokie. I'm off until the 24th (unless things change) as they currently don't need me. So, I have a TON of time. :) - Neutralhomer • Talk • 21:15 on August 11, 2020 (UTC) • #WearAMask • #BlackLivesMatter

I mostly only removed the translation from the infobox because I wasn't quite sure where to put it but it shouldn't have been in the infobox in small font (per MOS:SMALLFONT). Probably belongs in the article body somewhere. Raymie (t • c) 08:28, 9 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Raymie: I've never had an issue since it's a translation. I wouldn't be against losing the small font, I just put the translation in small so the main branding would be clear. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 08:55 on August 9, 2020 (UTC) • #WearAMask • #BlackLivesMatter

Great; here's another one I recently started. I noticed the San Angelo, Texas market is missing a few articles, so I'll have those soon. BTW, if you have any radio stations articles which you would like to see done, let me know. user:Rudy2alan (talk)

So I have like no idea how to use Wikipedia and stuff cause I’m pretty new to it in an editing and stuff way. Anyway, I came across this gay activist that made a speech in 1907 and he included asexual people. Because I have no idea how to use Wikipedia but I’ve seen you edit the ace timeline post I was hoping you could help me out with this and add it in. The activist is named Carl Schlegel. Obviously it is fine to say no, I’m not trying to force you into doing anything. I just wanted to share this new knowledge. Also I have no idea if there’s a better way to contact people lmao, sorry if this is annoying and breaking the social norms of wiki Randomusernametoinform (talk) 08:34, 15 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Randomusernametoinform: Hey, thanks for contacting me. :) Nope, not breaking norms, this is exactly how we get things done. :) That's what the talk page is for. :)

Can you send me (here on the talk page) the link for the speech, and I give it a look-see and see if it fits. If it doesn't, I can see if it might fit on another article. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 20:54 on August 15, 2020 (UTC) • #WearAMask • #BlackLivesMatter

User:Rudy2alan/KBJX (FM) & User:Rudy2alan/KMLS (FM) As before, no rush, just when you have some free time. Rudy2alan (talk) 13:41, 16 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Rudy2alan: Done and done. :) - Neutralhomer • Talk • 03:53 on August 20, 2020 (UTC) • #WearAMask • #BlackLivesMatter

For some reason there is an article (with which you helped me) for WKCU and the draft User:Rudy2alan/WKCU still exists. I'm not sure what to do. user:Rudy2alan (talk)

@Rudy2alan: That was the first one I did. I did a straight cut and paste. You just need to nom the DRAFT to deletion.

In semi-related news, I will get to those ones above today. It's ragweed season (yay! /sarcasm) and it took a couple for my allergy meds to fully kick in to kick ragweed in the butt. Always happens this time of year. Ugh. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 20:16 on August 19, 2020 (UTC) • #WearAMask • #BlackLivesMatter

We have another thing in common (besides being interested in radio). I have had hayfever since I was about 5 years old. I went through the shots to become less sensitized to my worst offenders (dust, ragweed, etc.) and after my last shots in the late 80's I lived in California for around 5 years. When I returned to the midwest in 1992 my allergies were just a minor flareup in the spring and also in August when ragweed began pollinating. It's possible the shots had a lasting effect, or maybe I just outgrew the allergies. user:Rudy2alan (talk)

@Rudy2alan: My allergies used to be WAAAAY worse. I used to be deathly allergic to cats, but my Grandma (Dad's Mom) had cats. Well, Cotton (she was pure white) would not let me be and eventually, my cat allergy just went away. It was like I just became immune to the cat dander or hair or whatever. We've had cats since then, no sneezing, no watery eyes, no nothing. :)

I only have an issue with grasses and ragweed when it first starts up. Sometimes it's BAD, but usually, I'm good after a week. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 19:29 on August 20, 2020 (UTC) • #WearAMask • #BlackLivesMatter

This is something I've never done, so I don't know what to do. user:Rudy2alan (talk)

Hey, I tried to give you the information twice(because I wasn’t sure if it had worked the first time) and I’m not sure what happened? I’ve been gone the past week so I haven’t been able to deal with it but when I checked today there seemed to be nothing here. Again, I’m not sure what happened, I probably messed up while trying to give you the info haha. Anyway, if you didn’t receive the info I’d be more than happy to send it again. Thanks :) Randomusernametoinform (talk) 04:00, 24 August 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I didn't, but that's OK. Just send the raw link in your next post here...and I can take it from here. I work today and all this week (I'm a custodian at an Elementary School), but as soon as I get home, I will give it a look-see. :) Hope you have an awesome day! :D - Neutralhomer • Talk • 11:18 on August 24, 2020 (UTC) • #WearAMask • #BlackLivesMatter

Here are two new drafts; there seems to be an endless number, but obviously not. user:Rudy2alan (talk)

@Rudy2alan: I haven't forgotten about you. Things have been NUTS at work and then when I get home all I want to do it just crash and burn....if I can sleep (stupid insomnia). So, I haven't forgotten, just need a couple spare SANE moments. :) - Neutralhomer • Talk • 03:02 on October 2, 2020 (UTC) • #WearAMask • #BlackLivesMatter

No problem - I know you check your talk page regularly, so I knew you were probably just busy. User:Rudy2alan

@Rudy2alan: I know, I know. :) Had a bout of depression, almost bronchitis, then actual bronchitis (which I still have), now I'm sidelined from work (due to the bronchitis and now COVID closings)...so I had a lot on my plate. Anyway, I'll get to these tonight. Mlaffs asked me to take care of a couple things and I basically ghosted for a month with the exception of a couple GNOMEish edits. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 23:15 on November 20, 2020 (UTC) • #WearAMask • #BlackLivesMatter

Thanks! Rudy2alan (talk) 14:41, 21 November 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

One for you, I think 🌷👍 Fiddle Faddle 19:51, 1 October 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Timtrent: Two good sources. I'd like to see more. Definitely needs more "meat on it's bones", but it's a start. I wouldn't let it go from DRAFT without at least five sources and an infobox...and a little bit of a history section. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 02:59 on October 2, 2020 (UTC) • #WearAMask • #BlackLivesMatter

Do you happen to be an AFC reviewer? I've forgotten. Fiddle Faddle 07:33, 2 October 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

This one may need your loving embrace. It was moved to be an article without review Fiddle Faddle 14:43, 2 October 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Howdy! Hope you're doing well, or at least as well as any of us can these days.

Just dropping by to say that I've been on a bit of a kick trying to turn red links into blue, first via some overlooked opportunities for redirects and then through a bit of stub creation. I've just finished stubs for a half-dozen LPFMs in Virginia, meaning the state has only a handful left in the red, and all of them ones for which I can't find a working website to provide any kind of detail. I know the lower mid-Atlantic is your jam, so I thought you might want to know.

Stay safe! Mlaffs (talk) 18:17, 12 October 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Mlaffs: Hey, I know I'm about a month late on getting back to you. It's been a month. Between a nice little bout of depression, almost bronchitis, now actual bronchitis, and being sidelined from work (due to the bronchitis and now rising COVID numbers), I've had a lot on my plate. I see there are still a few redlinks out on the Virginia list. I'll take care of the rest of those for ya.- Neutralhomer • Talk • 23:12 on November 20, 2020 (UTC) • #WearAMask • #BlackLivesMatter

Hey, man, no worries – didn't even need a response. It was just a heads-up for you. Try and take care of yourself, eh? Mlaffs (talk) 23:16, 20 November 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I'm trying. The bronchitis isn't bad, more annoying as freakin' hell. I've gotten every year the past 4 years now. So, looks like it's going to be a chronic thing. Yay./sarcasm Anyway, they just put the school system I work for on 100% online until December 2nd, so I'm out until then. I was out until November 27th per a doctor's note, but now it's ordered by the superintendent. I'm a custodian, so if the kids aren't there, I'm not there. Problem with that is, I don't work, I don't get paid...even though I'm under contract. Basically my boss hates me. :( Anywho, it's just the icing on the cake of a very annoying 2020. :) - Neutralhomer • Talk • 00:51 on November 21, 2020 (UTC) • #WearAMask • #BlackLivesMatter

Dona nobis pacem

Thank you for article work, and a good comment 8 years ago - click on apples! - DYK that I now go over the users whom you declared awesome Wikipedians 10 years ago? Or would you like to do it? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:31, 18 October 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Beautiful Main page today, don't miss the pic by a banned user (of a 2013 play critical of refugee politics), nor a related video, interviews in German, but music and scene. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:55, 29 October 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The reason I've been going on a crusade to try and sunset this template—and update some outdated translator lists while at it!—is because it's feeding outdated data (four years old). Unlike with radio, the FCC froze CDBS for television in 2016—so it covers nothing from the repack. Does LMS not have enough info yet? Raymie (t • c) 07:52, 2 December 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Raymie: It's never had repack data. The TVQ link goes the main FCC Data file for that station's FCC License. It has broadcast information is always up to date, it is never old. FCCData.org/REC Networks uses that same TVQ data, along with CDBS and LMS information, in their daily updates. This is just like FMQ and AMQ, it's the actual license information from the FCC. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 07:59 on December 2, 2020 (UTC) • #WearAMask • #BlackLivesMatter

OK, TVQ is doing much better than it used to with LMS data. For a station like WWJE-DT, where many things changed in the repack, it used to actually return straight up outdated info (it still kind of does — no reason for WBIN-TV to be in the header! — but it used to be way worse). I still must ask, what does TV Query have that the LMS search does not at this time? Raymie (t • c) 08:33, 2 December 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Well, even with repack, WBIN-TV is technically still a station. Just like WVPY is still a licensed station, but it shares a frequency and bandwidth with WVPT. They are technically seperate stations on paper, but not on the air. KSTP-TV and KSTC-TV are another example, KCNZ-CD and KOFY-TV are two more. In the first instance, KSTC operates on KSTP's 5.2. In the second, KOFY operates in the MUCH lower-powered KCNZ, but still ID's as KOFY-TV, it's technical callsign.

As for LMS, it's just showing you, in my opinion, more of the repack data than anything. Yeah, there is ownership information there, but to me, TVQ goes a little more indepth with frequency, power/wattage information, tower height/HAAT, really all the technical information information we need for the infoboxes is right there in one place. I only use FMQ, AMQ, and TVQ for my articles (and FCCData.org/REC). That's straight FCC license information. As Dravecky taught me, you can never have too many references and sources. :) He was right. A wealth of sources for the reader (and the writer) to choose from is better than having none at all. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 09:52 on December 2, 2020 (UTC) • #WearAMask • #BlackLivesMatter

I more meant the call change from WBIN to WWJE there... And trust me, I don't write a single article without a stop to REC. (It's been especially invaluable for one of the related projects: updating our sorely outdated translator lists!) I don't feel so badly about TVQ now—there was definitely a time when it wasn't pulling updated info, but it's not so bad now. I'll probably continue to clean up the translator lists as I have been doing, though; I've been finding a number of quirks and errors (e.g. a listed KTVK translator actually being KTVX), and the lists need updating on account of the repack and digitalization of translator districts. Raymie (t • c) 17:48, 2 December 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Raymie: I did not know that WBIN has switched callsigns. Interesting. I typically stay in radio station articles now. :) The only reason I noticed your change is the West Virginia Public Broadcasting is part radio, part television. I cover the radio side. Someone else covers the TV side. :) TV can be all yours. :D I'll stick to radio stations and my little chuck of the Mid-Atlantic. :D - Neutralhomer • Talk • 17:55 on December 2, 2020 (UTC) • #WearAMask • #BlackLivesMatter

Well, I've been bringing some of these technical things to radio, too. The nice thing about the FID-based templates (which are {{FCC-LMS-Facility}} and its express wrapper {{FID}}) is that they work for radio and TV. My favorite is probably FID, which I'm using in tables like the one in the WVPB page. I also brought the same licensing authority trigger to {{Infobox radio station}} from {{Infobox television station}} using almost the same code when I rewrote both templates at the same time. Raymie (t • c) 18:00, 2 December 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Raymie: Sorry, had a Zoom meeting. I have seen just FCC links for the tables on the WVPB page, though they got switched to CDBS and LMS. Maybe add the FCC link to the {{FCC-LMS-Facility}} template? Less need for it at the bottom, that would only leave the Radio-Locator and Arbitron links, which do allow us to show coverage area and format (Arbitron is sometimes a little off though). Radio-Locator is always on par with FCC Coverage Maps. We could always add REC in place of the FCC link. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 18:59 on December 2, 2020 (UTC) • #WearAMask • #BlackLivesMatter

While I'm just sitting here from an outside point of view, I think you were much too fast to self-close that AN/I. There are only so many admins, and they're stretched thin between every aspect of Wikipedia, including AN/I -- one with a reputation as a drama magnet. It's common for low-drama AN/Is to take many days to be resolved. Vaticidalprophet (talk) 20:11, 17 January 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Vaticidalprophet: This is true, but it was more 12 hours and I added a null edit on the time of a previous post of mine asking for some admin input. More than 24 hours from the time I made my call to admin to when I closed the thread. Had I let "nature take it's course" and not added that null edit, restarting the clock, it would have gotten archived anyway to do inactivity after 24 hours. The thread was dead in the water.

You are more than welcome to reopen it, just link to this post. But I don't see any good it will do. The admin who was originally involved won't be getting involved either and I can understand why. She's done all she can to reach them and short of issuing blocks (which the community clearly doesn't care about or want to give input on), she doesn't "intend to make [into] a career." Stating she "only got involved because of a protection request" and done her "best I could with those three". It sounds like she is just done with them and has no community backing, like so many other users who have gotten involved with these three.

I only got involved as I saw it unfolding on my watchlist on talkpages of a couple admins I follow. Investigated, thought I could help. Clearly, I coulddn't. TV stations aren't even my gig anymore. I stopped editing them because of people like these three. They take the entire project down.

Like I said, you are more than welcome to reopen the ANI thread, just link this post saying that I have no issue with it being reopened. I just don't see any good in it being done. I'll watch the thread and participate, but I foresee it being autoarchived within 24 hours. Take Care...Neutralhomer • Talk • 21:57 on January 17, 2021 (UTC)

Have a good new year! - On the Main page today Jerome Kohl, remembered in friendship - I think of you every day, looking up whom you called awesome 10 years ago! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:50, 28 January 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Gerda Arendt: Thanks! :) Much appreciated! - Neutralhomer • Talk • 22:58 on February 7, 2021 (UTC)

Neutralhomer

The correction(s) I've made to the wikipedia pages for KLDE FM radio need to be reinstated immediately. I HAVE FIRST-HAND KNOWLEDGE of the recent events concerning these radio stations (I am NOT a troll). The Networks mentioned (that were removed) are no longer affiliated to KLDE (or KPEP). You have the correct Affilated station, KPEP... but the hypelink is somehow sending viewers to another radio station's website that is NOT owned by TENN-Vol, Corp. - — Preceding unsigned comment added by 47.223.214.204 (talk • contribs)

(talk page stalker)- Any changes need to be verifiable. If we acquiesced to everyone who claimed "first hand knowledge" alone, IMO the project would be broken. Regards,   Aloha27  talk  02:02, 7 February 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@47.223.214.204: Aloha27 is right (and thanks for your moving things around), "first hand knowledge" is considered original research and MUST be backed up by third-party reliable resources. Edits like the one above and this will get you nowhere but blocked. Now chill, drop the attitude, and try again. Find some sources. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 22:58 on February 7, 2021 (UTC)

PLease have a look at this and its edit history. My instinct is that it fails GNG. Your instinct may differ. Yours is usually better than mine. Fiddle Faddle 16:11, 14 February 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Timtrent: This is beyond my realm of knowledge. US (easy), Canadian (tricky, but no problem), maybe Mexican...but the latter is pushing it, even British is really out on the bad end, verging Looney Tunes end, of the limb. But the Philippines, I have nothing. I mean....zip! I know there are alot of pages that are listed that turn out to be false. Someone who would know is Bearcat. When it comes to the Philippines, dude has information. From where, I have no idea. If DXFA is listed, he'll find it. If it isn't, then it's one of the fakes. :) He's also pretty good with Canadian stations too. Even though we disagree...alot. Difference of opinion does not mean that he isn't a good editor. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 17:43 on February 14, 2021 (UTC)

Disagreement is a great thing. We get better because of disagreements. Agreement just reinforces existing behaviour! The measure of us is the manner in which we disagree.

I'll rely on Bearcat taking a look. I hesitate to offer it for deletion as it stands, but don't like the look of it Fiddle Faddle 22:32, 14 February 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Timtrent: Dravecky and I agreed alot, he made me a better editor. :) He taught me how to be a better writer, editor, creator, Wikipedian, how to basically do everything. I often wonder, "how would Ed do this?". I guess I miss my friend.

I think we have very few Filipino users on English Wikipedia (I could be very wrong here), so I think that's why those articles get deleted so easily. We are relying on online information which isn't always reliable and it's not always up-to-date or even correct. :( - Neutralhomer • Talk • 04:40 on February 15, 2021 (UTC)

In reality, I really don't have any special inside knowledge about Philippine radio stations — we've just had a lot of Philippine radio articles that were completely unsourced, or had straightforward issues like claiming a frequency that was first-adjacent to another radio station in the same city (which can't happen anywhere on earth, as stations spaced that closely together on the dial would always interfere with each other's signals), so that their problems were readily identifiable without any need for special deep knowledge of the Philippines because they'd be problems everywhere. So it's not that I have any special depth of expertise about Philippine radio per se, it's just that the problems with Philippine radio station articles are usually evident just by having a working knowledge about radio in general.

That said, by the time I was actually able to look into this, the DXFA article had already been redirected back to its parent institution anyway. I agree with the redirection, because in particular the article was failing to properly source that DXFA actually produces any of its own original programming, as opposed to simply being a relay of DXAA — but it had already been dealt with by somebody else before I actually got to this at all. Bearcat (talk) 14:33, 16 February 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Bearcat: My mistake. :) I always saw you on those pages and thought you had some inside knowledge there. :D That's why I pinged you. :) Thanks for setting me straight. :) - Neutralhomer • Talk • 14:54 on February 16, 2021 (UTC)

As I'm sure you know, your signature uses a different date and time format than the Wikipedia default. What you might not know is that this causes problems with Wikipedia's tools. When you submitted an RM at Talk:September 11 attacks, the system was unable to detect your signature, and the format of the listing at WP:RM was corrupted until I corrected it with this edit. When you used the {{replyto}} template in this edit, I did not get a ping. I suspect that Casliber also did not get a ping a few hours later from this edit. Probably no one has been getting pings from your edits since you set up that signature format. I suspect this will also affect other aspects of Wikipedia, such as XfD discussions – anything that involves signature detection will fail to function properly. — BarrelProof (talk) 17:06, 16 February 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@BarrelProof: I never have any issues with pings. In my sig, the timestamp is set up as currenttime, currentmonth, currentdate, currentyear, all using those templates. You are the first to have issues. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 17:29 on February 16, 2021 (UTC)

Perhaps you did not see what the entry on WP:RM looked like before I made that correction. I did get a ping from your last edit! — BarrelProof (talk) 18:09, 16 February 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@BarrelProof: To be honest, I didn't. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 18:13 on February 16, 2021 (UTC)

Yup - I can confirm I did not get pinged....Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 20:30, 16 February 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

To see the RM list problem, just revert this edit, wait a half hour for the list to update, and take a look at WP:RMCD. — BarrelProof (talk) 22:23, 16 February 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Casliber: It's odd, cause it's saying they are going through everytime. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 22:26 on February 16, 2021 (UTC)

@BarrelProof: Never had a problem with my Month Date Year setup before. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 22:26 on February 16, 2021 (UTC)

Maybe the ping problem is unrelated to your date/time formatting. But I'm pretty sure the WP:RMCD problem is a direct result of it. — BarrelProof (talk) 22:31, 16 February 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@BarrelProof: I have no clue. :( I'll be honest, I just manually created the one I started and used that day's date (2/14). I've done that in the past with other RMs, since a bot takes care of it. Now, I never had two RMs back-to-back, so maybe that was the cause. Again, I am not sure. As long as it is working and people are getting their pings, that's fine by me.

Feel free to do a non-admin close to that RM, as I have no intentions of continuing it further. You may link this post. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 22:38 on February 16, 2021 (UTC)

According to the usual rules, since I have expressed an opinion in the discussion, I should not close the RM. I realize you have expressed a willingness to withdraw it, but withdrawals are only supposed to be used when no support has been expressed; there is one person who expressed support. — BarrelProof (talk) 23:26, 16 February 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@BarrelProof: Actually it's an unwillingness, but since Davey2010 wants it continued and I have no interest or intentions in continuing it further since I'm catching flack, I see no point. I won't withdraw on principal. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 00:38 on February 17, 2021 (UTC)

Re No evidence the user has ever stopped their edits to engage in discussion, this may interest you: WP:VPWMF § What we've got here is failure to communicate (some mobile editors you just can't reach). Suffusion of Yellow (talk) 03:39, 22 February 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Suffusion of Yellow: I am, indeed, aware of that, I was meaning the efforts to make discussion on their talk page. Even for IP users, that will light up with notices. When I was an IP editor (granted 16 years ago) and when I edit as an IP now, though via IPv6, I still see talk page posts. My reference was to the efforts of editors to make discussion on their talk page. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 04:13 on February 22, 2021 (UTC)

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. You do not have to take this to ANI because I did it for you, your behavior is unacceptable.Rusf10 (talk) 07:51, 28 March 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Changes like [4] are completely unacceptable. (They also don't actually ping anyone if you don't sign them). DO NOT DO IT AGAIN. User:力 (power~enwiki, π, ν) 01:16, 29 March 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

One, it's never been a problem before and two, if you are going to be the mediator, I'm done. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 01:18 on March 29, 2021 (UTC)

WP:TPO is extremely clear. I've asked at ANI for an admin or two to confirm this to you. User:力 (power~enwiki, π, ν) 01:23, 29 March 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

As far as "mediating" is concerned, so long as you argue on the talk page and not at ANI, I plan to be a content editor and not in an mediating role. Editing other's talk page comments (and failing to ping correctly) is separate from that. User:力 (power~enwiki, π, ν) 01:25, 29 March 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Well, when I'm getting heat from Floquenbeam on the ANI and Rusf10 is still posting at the ANI, it's kinda hard not to post there. Am I expected to ignore an admin? - Neutralhomer • Talk • 01:29 on March 29, 2021 (UTC)

Uh, I'm not strictly telling you not to post at ANI, though that's good advice. "First rule of ANI: Nobody has ever helped their own cause in any way by participating at ANI. Even non-controversial edits have a way of getting people into trouble." I'm telling you that the content dispute needs to be somewhere other than ANI. User:力 (power~enwiki, π, ν) 01:31, 29 March 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

When you say "I have no opinion on the content" is what I have gotten from 力 at ANI, I assume you're referring to me. As you seem to be implying otherwise, I can't engage with you any further. User:力 (power~enwiki, π, ν) 02:16, 29 March 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@力: Yeah, that part, sure. I've gotten that from a LOT of admins. It irritates me that people would rather comment on me rather than the subject or discussion. Just have an opinion. Especially when you do see to be taking a side. I don't have any "bone" against you. I have be irritated with someone and still work with them. Just ask people I work with. That say that Larry David/Curb Your Enthusiasm meme of him walking out the door saying "fuck you and I'll see you tomorrow" discribes me perfectly. Cause I show up the next day with coffee and donuts. :) I can get irritated with you, but we can work together....just have an opinion, dude! - Neutralhomer • Talk • 02:35 on March 29, 2021 (UTC)

I said I was done, but I saw your ping before retiring for the evening, so one more reply. First: you seem to want both an "uninvolved admin" and "someone with an opinion" at the same time, which seems contradictory. Second, editing someone else's ping to add other editors is blatantly not acceptable (both for WP:TPO and because it doesn't fucking work); if you fuck up like that I have to correct you no matter how "neutral" I am trying to be. User:力 (power~enwiki, π, ν) 02:42, 29 March 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

You have yourself a good evening. :) - Neutralhomer • Talk • 02:47 on March 29, 2021 (UTC)

For graciously striking that comment. TBH, when people are going full tilt at AN/I, I don't usually expect them to pull up and reconsider, so that's very much to your credit. Sammi really seems to have come through with the goods to help us understand why different sources say the things they do about WDSI. Hopefully this can get wrapped up without extended conflict. Choess (talk) 05:02, 29 March 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Choess: I'm easy to get along with. It's people who just can't listen that drive me MAD! I can pick the good out of the conversation, the calm out of the storm. While others were doing too good over a job calming things down, I think you and Sammi did a pretty good job at settling things. Sammi is an excellent editor. She had racked up a TON of DYKs and GAs, she's a force. So, this was nothin' for her. Rusf10 and I both got what we wanted, I'm happy (I'm not really picky) and him...whatever (not my problem). I'm done. Whether he wants to continue on ANI is completely up to him. He started that ANI, I didn't. :) - Neutralhomer • Talk • 05:31 on March 29, 2021 (UTC)

Precious

Nine years!

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:52, 8 April 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Gerda Arendt: Now this is the kind of message that is always welcome. :) Much appreciated. :D - Neutralhomer • Talk • 14:48 on April 8, 2021 (UTC)

Enjoy, - I always do when I don't have to look up if someone contributed during the past year but recognize a good name! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:51, 8 April 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

As always, I would appreciate your expertise (tweaks) on this new article (draft). user:Rudy2alan (talk)

@Rudy2alan: Sorry it took me a couple to get this completed. When you sent me this, I was actually standing in the middle of Brooklyn. :) I live in Virginia. So, I was having me a "double-vaxxed, double-masked, socially-distanced, I-need-outta-this-house" vacation. :D Once I got back, it was right back to work. So, everything got lost in the shuffle, along with dealing with a vandal that wouldn't go away. Anywho, my apologizes on how long it took. Keep 'em comin'. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 20:49, 15 May 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

No problem, and again thanks for your input/additions to my articles! I enjoy doing these articles and appreciate having someone with more experience than I having a hand in completing them. User:Rudy2alan

@Rudy2alan: Well, I appreciate you giving me a chance to do them. :) Hope your day is going well. :) - Neutralhomer • Talk • 19:06, 16 May 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I am perplexed by your insistence that there is an independent city in Virginia named "Arlington", in addition to the county of that name. There has never been a town or city in Virginia named "Arlington", only the county. This is why the Wikipedia link to Arlington, Virginia is a merely a redirect to Arlington County, Virginia. This also explains why there is not an entry for "Arlington" at List of cities and counties in Virginia#List of independent cities.

You note that you live in Virginia, however I grew up in Arlington, so I am very familiar with its history. Overall, "By law, there are no cities or towns located within the boundaries of the County. In 1922, the Virginia Supreme Court held that Arlington is a continuous, contiguous and homogeneous entity which cannot be subdivided nor can any portion be annexed by neighboring jurisdictions." ("History of Arlington"). Arlington has been called an "urbanized county", but that does not mean it is an independent city.--Thomas H. White (talk) 07:51, 9 May 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I am courious why you think

Broadcasting (PDF). Broadcasting Publications. February 10, 1941. p. 29. Retrieved December 1, 2013.

is worse than

Broadcasting (PDF). Broadcasting Publications. February 10, 1941. p. 29. Retrieved December 1, 2013.

AManWithNoPlan (talk) 12:49, 13 May 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@AManWithNoPlan: Because, under FA rules, it must show "format=PDF". There isn't anything "good" or "worse" about it, it's the rules. As a featured article, one that I and many other editors put a LOT of time and effort into, I intend to follow the rules to the letter to which they were written. I am not having that FA pulled by a minor infaction, which I have seen happen. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 21:06 on May 13, 2021 (UTC)

Can you point me to those rules. AManWithNoPlan (talk) 00:47, 14 May 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

You can find them within the links at WP:FACR. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 00:48 on May 14, 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for finding those sources NW1223_{(Howl at me · My hunts)} 00:41, 22 June 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@NightWolf1223: You are quite welcome. :) If you ever need help, please ask. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 00:42, 22 June 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Will do. NW1223_{(Howl at me · My hunts)} 00:43, 22 June 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

You removed the PROD tag without explanation. I'll be taking it to AfD, but I'm curious as to why you removed it, as it seems an open and shut WP:2DABS case. schetm (talk) 06:42, 2 July 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Schetm: Actually, it's the way we currently do things around here per NMEDIA. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 07:00, 2 July 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I'd always figured editing guidelines like 2dabs superseded explanatory supplements like NMEDIA, and that a call sign dab page would fall more under dab guidelines than media notability guidelines at any rate, but we'll let the community decide. schetm (talk) 07:05, 2 July 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Schetm: The "N" in NMEDIA is for Notability. :) - Neutralhomer • Talk • 07:07, 2 July 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I know. I have been (silently) following the debate, but, as of now, it's still only an explanatory supplement to WP:N and it doesn't seem at all relevant to a two item disambiguation page. It doesn't mention disambiguation at all! schetm (talk) 07:11, 2 July 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Schetm: "Explanatory supplement"...SOMEONE WHO ACTUALLY GETS IT!!!! I urge you to add that to the discussion. I know that Sammi Brie would love the input. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 07:22, 2 July 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

In 14 years and over 8k edits (on this wiki), I have never needed to drag anyone to ANI. I just checked.

I suggest you revert your edit[5] on WP:BCASTOUTCOMES and stop in general, before I do escalate this to WP:ANI. If I do go to ANI the first edit I will cite is your radical agenda for "no deletions" in your pet topic area. The second thing note will be your Talk page banner "I am no longer getting involved in radio or TV station concerns (vandalism, some user did something to some page, etc.) I'm just done."[6] There's little reason not to topic-ban you from things you explicitly state you will no longer get involved in. Then of course I will cite your WP:BCASTOUTCOMES edit along with delete results for Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/DZRI Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/DYIK Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/MKFM Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Tallaght_FM_(2nd_nomination) Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/DYBK Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/DWJB-FM Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/DWJE-FM Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/DZSP-FM. Those are just since June 12. In fact there have been exactly two keep results in that same time frame, and both of them were explicitly Keep-due-to-significant-sourcing. I wouldn't be surprised if an ANI discussion leads to WP:BCASTOUTCOMES text explicitly stating of DELETION outcomes in the absence of significant coverage, rather "conflicting outcomes" as I wrote. Attempting to ridiculously wikilaywer that NMEDIA isn't a failed proposal is hardly going to go over well either. Alsee (talk) 01:46, 19 July 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Alsee: If you are going to take me to ANI, do it. I don't care. You'll be forced to prove your side as well. Which means you will be forced to show that NMEDIA is now an essay or a failed proposal and not an "explanatory supplement to the Wikipedia:Notability guideline" as it remained during the rewrite discussion. So, go ahead. You'll be under the microscope too. It might not turn out well for me, but it might not turn out well for you either. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 01:52, 19 July 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Alsee, chiming in here.

The problem with NMEDIA is that it has several sections. It's the broadcast section that was the most contentious at RfC; even though it stated that the GNG should apply, evidently the community felt that it strayed too far. The programming sections, I fear, are collateral damage, and I'm waiting for WP:TV to get its RfC on a new SNG ready. They have community buy-in and are applied as an SNG regularly in one of the largest projects.

The RfC showed that where NMEDIA was, particularly on broadcast media notability, had become out of line with changing community consensus as standards have generally moved higher on the encyclopedia. (Not to mention that the RfC was likely to happen anyway because of the uncertain status and unusual positioning of the page.) In an ideal world, NMEDIA becomes a guideline on broadcast media, and a good one, that is an effective application of the GNG equivalent to other SNGs; print media is left to the existing essays on newspapers and academic journals; television is handled by a new WP:NTV; and radio programming goes somewhere because there's no good place for it in either of the above. I'm committed to eventually finding the balance that leads to that good guideline to cover somewhere north of 30,000 pages in the topic.

I really wish that {{failed proposal}} had not yet been applied as a courtesy to the television programming section, which was essentially left out of the rewrite assuming that the new NTV would be further along in seeking community approval. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 03:31, 19 July 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Sammi Brie I wanted to commend you on your work. While the result wasn't what you initially hoped, you did an excellent job adapting to the emerging consensus and productively guiding the process. While NMEDIA as a whole is a {{failed proposal}}, that should not be interpreted against efforts to spin-out sections. Most of the focus ended up being on the issue of pushing radio Notability. I couldn't even tell you my position on the viability of other sections without doing a re-focused re-read. Alsee (talk) 04:44, 19 July 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Alsee, that's a fair assessment. It came down mostly to a notability of radio stations question where people felt the specifics in the rewrite didn't align with the GNG (as well as some !votes that argued for the GNG itself to be the only guideline). Even though—based on the available sourcing—the vast majority of US radio stations that originate programming and are in operation can meet the GNG (and even though we have some bare stubs, most are very expandable as I can attest with more than 200 DYKs on US broadcast stations), that is proving to not be the case in some other countries. I'm always open to feedback. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 05:08, 19 July 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

P.S. I just caught up with reading your current new talk page header. The profanity, the admission that you're the "only one" fighting for your cause, and "I am going to walk away. I don't want to, but I have to. I will watch from the sidelines, but I will not participate." all reinforce the case that you need to WP:Drop the stick.

Edit conflict. You are now explicitly in violation of WP:3R, 4 reverts in 22 minutes[7] explicitly EDITWARRING against three different editors simultaneously. I do not have to defend my position whatsoever. you have provided an iron clad case that you have gone into disruptive warfare mode. I really dislike dragging anyone to ANI. In 14 years I have managed to resolve all conflicts by discussion or other non-ANI means. Please explicitly withdraw your reverts on WP:Notability (media) and WP:BCASTOUTCOMES and end this agreeably. Your rapid fire 4 reverts warring against three people leaves you bright-line toast. Please acknowledge it so we can avoid formal sanctions. Alsee (talk) 02:08, 19 July 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

You have to make a case. You aren't going to bully me into submission. Either do or don't. Make your choice, I'm not making it for you. I'm going back to watching YouTube. As for the profanity, I'm a former Navy brat, I cuss like a sailor. :) If that upsets you, for that and that alone, I do apologize. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 02:12, 19 July 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Sigh. I have other important matters I to deal with, but now I'll reluctantly have to build an ANI case. Just to clarify (1) I have no problem with profanity, but your profanity does emphasize that you've fallen over an edge on this issue. (2) I only need to build a case against you. As I said I don't need to build any case supporting my position. Even if my edits were well-intentioned crap, your editing was disruptive and in clear violation of policy. Alsee (talk) 02:24, 19 July 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Alsee: Actually, you don't have to do anything. You want to do something. No one is forcing you to go to ANI. Just cause I won't revert my edits, which as you said, I'm at 4RR, I technically can't anyway. So, you can and still be at 3RR yourself. I've walked away and I've disengaged. You are forcing the issue. So, yes, you can take the issue to ANI, but you don't have to, you want do. You aren't getting your way (ie: the responses you want), so you want to go to the "drama boards" to get a punishment, when it's just easier to revert and walk away. When you, yourself, admit you have "other important matters...to deal with". Which is more important? This or whatever else you have to work on? - Neutralhomer • Talk • 02:32, 19 July 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I'm in the middle of drafting ANI with diffs, but to respond - yes I have to. In service of the community and consensus. You are clearly waging a crusade contrary to consensus. I will be requesting a narrowly tailored topic ban. In particular I do not want any restriction on your ability to work on articles. But I do intend to request an exclusion from Radio-and-TV AFD's, it is clear that you push indiscriminate "Keep" votes regardless of sourcing or consensus. And I have to figure out some language to address your notability warring in WP: and WT: pages. Alsee (talk) 02:47, 19 July 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Alsee: Hope you don't have anything important you need to do anytime soon. Cause ANI doesn't give a break for sleep or anything else. Your "other important matters" will have to wait. You will be subject to sactions yourself, and the whole thing will may be considered a content dispute and ignored. So, procede with caution, you were warned. :) - Neutralhomer • Talk • 02:51, 19 July 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Alsee: while Homer's edit warring wasn't great, I wouldn't even say it contravened policy that much. The WP:STATUSQUO was as an explanatory supplement, and your argument for marking it as a failed proposal is weak.

Though, most SNGs are really intended as explanatory supplements to WP:GNG. For example, WP:NSPORTS essentially says that any sports player who plays for a professional league is likely to meet GNG. It being a policy means that it's a valid !keep vote to say someone meets WP:NSPORTS, because the community accepts that assessment as reasonable.

With some of WP:NMEDIA, the same assumptions are being made (if it has XYZ, it likely meets GNG). The difference is that those assumptions weren't clearly accepted as the community as decent enough evidence for a GNG meet. The other part (particularly about written media) was intended to be more of an WP:NPROF for media - things that don't meet GNG but we carve out an exception for. That, indeed, is in no way an explanatory supplement and should probably be split to an essay.

Explanatory supplement is not a holding cell for essays people are too lazy to RfC to become guideline/policy. They're a type of essay - of which this was, and remains, a valid one. Elli (talk | contribs) 03:24, 19 July 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. Alsee (talk) 04:27, 19 July 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Thanks for your contributions to Princeton, Texas. I see BranchHistory keep adding legal stuff, with out responding to ukexpat concerns in Talk:Princeton, Texas page. Unsure how we can reach a consensus, seeking your help. Pinecar (talk) 21:26, 1 August 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The licensee was a Baptist church. I'd be surprised if they aired 3ABN, which is Adventist. Any source? Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 16:51, 10 August 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Sammi Brie: RadioLocator shows it airs/aired 3ABN Radio. Not the greatest source, but it's better than nothing. 3ABN Radio's own affiliate list doesn't show the station, but that's probably because it's no longer on the air.

I do want to note that FCCData/RECNet and the FCC are still showing the station as "Licensed". Though this may be because LMS is a little slower than CDBS was. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 17:29, 10 August 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Your comments at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Draft:WMFH-LP were inappropriate in at least two respects. First, they were uncivil, needlessly so, and civility is the fourth pillar of Wikipedia. I had not claimed that you had done anything wrong. I asked why you had copied the draft rather than moving it, and you replied with anger. You may have been angry primarily at User:SmokeyJoe, but he was correct that you were breaking attribution, since you do state that you modified the history rather than completely rewriting it, so that he had a reason to state that you had broken attribution, and perhaps a warning was in order. Second, your nomination, and your subsequent comments, show a profound ignorance of how drafts are used in Wikipedia. You are not a new editor, and you should know that if you don't know what you are doing, maybe it is best either to ask, or to not make a mess. Drafts are not deleted because an article has been created on the topic. The draft is redirected, either automatically by the accept script, or as a byproduct of the move process. Those redirects are meant to be kept. Otherwise, drafts that are ignored are deleted after six months by G13. You said that the draft could rot for eternity, but drafts don't work like that. So the good-faith assumption is that you didn't know what you were doing, and you made a silly request, and, when asked about it, you replied with a childish tantrum. I am not cautioning you about breaking attribution, which has already been mentioned, but I am cautioning you about losing your temper, and losing your temper when you were simply wrong (about how drafts work). Robert McClenon (talk) 03:32, 3 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

A file that you uploaded or altered, File:WDSW-LP CoverageArea.png, has been listed at Wikipedia:Files for discussion. Please see the discussion to see why it has been listed (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry). Feel free to add your opinion on the matter below the nomination. Thank you. Stefan2 (talk) 19:29, 6 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

From the edit summary in your second revert, it seems to me that you are being defensive about someone editing your writing, rather than thinking of the reader's experience. I'm sorry to have unintentionally insulted your writing with my edit summary, but my version is clearly more concise, and more accurate - for one thing, the statement "The Classic Country format will continue as an online-only station." is blatantly untrue considering that the very next sentence states that the format flipped back shortly after. Please don't reintroduce the inaccuracy again by reverting me a third time. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 07:43, 13 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Premeditated Chaos: I get "defensive" when someone "introduces" horrible grammar and lack of punctuation to a page and calls it "more concise"....and then proceeds to edit war about it. Now, I'll give you the format flip part. I didn't catch that. It happens. We call those "mistakes". I guess they don't have those in chaos. Don't apologize and then throw a veiled insult at me within the same sentence.

Just for the record, the edit summary wasn't even close to "defensive", that was an explanation and a request. Even this isn't defensive. Snarky maybe, but not defensive. You don't want to see defensive. :) - Neutralhomer • Talk • 13:44, 13 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is Neutralhomer. Thank you. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 09:52, 15 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Some of your images or media files have been listed for discussion. Please see Wikipedia:Files for discussion/2021 October 17 if you are interested in preserving their usage.

• File:WINC-AM 2015.PNG
• File:WINC-AM WZFC-FM 2018.png
• File:WINC-AM 2020.png

Thank you. Whpq (talk) 01:24, 17 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Whpq: Is there a problem with the files themselves, the FURs? How about we discuss it instead of you FfD'ing them? - Neutralhomer • Talk • 01:26, 17 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I have stated the reason why in the nominating statement. The discussion should take place at FFD where other editors can also provide their opionon. -- Whpq (talk) 01:27, 17 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Whpq: Yeah, I can read too...and I already have responded. You are supposed to talk to the user on their talk page first. You didn't even bother. Did you bother to check that the FURs had been changed prior to FfD'ing them? - Neutralhomer • Talk • 01:30, 17 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

There is no requirement that I discuss this with you before nominating. I did see you changed the NFUR before nominating but changing the rationale information doesn't resolve the issue. -- Whpq (talk) 01:38, 17 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Actually, there is. It's on most pages and admins typically require it, plus it's a common courtesy. So, what would resolve the issue? Instead of waiting for someone to come along in the discussion and tell me? - Neutralhomer • Talk • 01:40, 17 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

WP:NFCC#8 and contextual significance. The logos should be the subject of significant sourced commentary from reliable sources. -- Whpq (talk) 01:42, 17 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Whpq:: File:WINC-AM 2015.PNG, was the station's last logo prior to adding the 104.9 simulcast.

File:WINC-AM WZFC-FM 2018.png, the station only held this logo while simulcasting with 104.9.

File:WINC-AM 2020.png, the last and final logo as WINC, after 80 years with the callsign.

The "commentary" is at the bottom of each image. I can dig up the Internet Archive links for you, but that sounds like BURDEN. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 01:46, 17 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

• Just a reminder that the files are nominated at FFD. I won't be discussing them any further on your talk page because this is the wrong venue for it. -- Whpq (talk) 01:50, 17 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Whpq: Again, I am aware. There isn't a "correct" venue for it. But sure, I'll be glad to note this "discussion". - Neutralhomer • Talk • 01:51, 17 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The next time you use a well known racial slur to refer to another person, you will be blocked indefinitely. So be careful. Do not try to deny the history of that term without doing some serious study about how that term has been used. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 02:27, 18 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Cullen328: "It is not a "racial" term and was not used in a "racial" way, so get your head out of the gutter." I thank you to take your threats and your "spin" elsewhere. Stick with the subject of the discussion.

I might be white male from the South, but I'm an Autistic, LGBTQIA+, BLM-supporting, Women's Rights-supporting, Democratic, Trump-and-GOP hating, Earth-loving, Science-and-Fauci-supporting, "wear your damned mask and get the damned vaccine" white male son of a Veteran (I support Veterans, but I hate war) from the South that abhors violence and supports equality for all. So take your insinuations that I am anything but off my talk page and out of your mouth. Because I might abhor violence, but I won't hesitate to verbally "smackdown" someone for slandering my good name because they can't look past me and deal with the issue at hand. If that's a problem for you, maybe you are the one with the issue, cause it ain't me. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 03:06, 18 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The solution is simple: Stop using racial slurs. All the rest is diversion. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 03:51, 18 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Cullen328: No, this solution is simple, prove when I said it, that it was said in a racial way....and no, it's not a diversion. This racial thing you got going on here, that is a diversion. A diversion from the entire DrKay discussion. I'm not falling for it. Prove it or go away. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 03:54, 18 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I do not need to prove your intent because no administrator is a mind reader. What is indisputable is that you used a term widely known as a racial slur in an attempt to belittle another person. Even if I was to accept that you were entirely unaware of the racial connotations (though I did not just fall off a turnip truck), it is clear that your intent was to belittle. So, knock it off. You know the consequences now. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 04:12, 18 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Cullen328: "Indisputable", which means you have "indisputable proof", let's see it. You can't show it, because you don't have it. I was born at night, but it wasn't last night. Yeah, we both got a truck load of 'em. Cause at first you said it was "racial", not you are saying I did it to "belittle". Which is it? Can you prove I said it to do either? No, you can't. So you knock it off. Drop it and let it go. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 04:17, 18 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Let TEA defend himself, as it's his report. Don't make yourself the central topic. Slowly walk away from it. GoodDay (talk) 04:04, 18 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@GoodDay: TEA hasn't signed in since posted that ANI report. I wouldn't know why. That's typical of how we treat new editors. Being all those things you see up top, I'm more than OK with defending people who can't defend themselves. Since a slew of people decided to also make this about me, yeah, I'm going to fight this fight too. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 04:17, 18 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

For the avoidance of doubt, any other admin is free to lift this block without needing to consult me. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 09:24, 18 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Ritchie333: Not fighting it. Though I do love this comment from Nil Einne and your quick redaction of it. Oh, I'm "bludgeoning" people, but personal attacks are A-OK. Then Nil Einne proceeds to go on with the well-spun yarn that Cullen328 started about my "racial slur" with no backing proof. So, personal attacks are A-OK and slanderous attacks are A-OK.

Just to clarify this point brought up by Levivich, I "object[ed] to the singular they" because that is not my preferred pronouns. Mine are he/his. It's in my preferences information. To continued to be called "they", after quickly and politely mentioning it, is an insult to anyone who uses the "they/them" pronouns. After mentioning it politely, I'm allowed to get upset, because it was, at that point, intentional.

You see why I'm not fighting this block. Clearly, it's now a free-for-all. Say what you will, do what you want. My lunch break is almost over, I got some vomit to clean up, which is a LOT more enjoyable than this. Do you all even have jobs?

Finally, to Nil Einne, I have almost 74,000 edits to my name, not 66,000. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 16:27, 18 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I just got home about 45 minutes ago. I have dealt with a broken fire sprinkler head, which was caused by a basketball being purposefully tossed at it. I had to deal with the gym teacher who allowed it, who I made stay after and deal with the mess he allowed to happen, and the fire department who automatically show up when the fire alarm goes off when a sprinkler head goes off. I also had to deal with at least 500 gallons of black sprinkler water all over the freakin' floors, carpets, and walls before I could shut the main. It's a fuckin' mess.

Before that, I dealt with two kids puking, one thankfully in the bathroom, but another in a classroom. That was fun. Oh, and my normal cleaning through the day.

Do you know what you all did? Threw insults, piled on, and focused on me....instead of the actual subject. From Levivich, who said he didn't like participating in NFC#U threads he sure seemed to like participating in them. Bilorv actually said "The Exterminating Angel...how else will you be changing your behaviour in future to increase your accuracy?" Like, wow?! Do you think the gym teacher looked at me and asked me "how...will you be changing your behaviour in future to keep me from allowing my students from busting a fire sprinkler head?" No. He screwed up, he took responsibility for his actions, like DrKay should have. Nil Einne, your "apology" was as condescending as they come. You want to apologize for something? Apologize for this comment and your continued spinning a false narrative over my use of the word "buckwheat". I will say this one more time, so listen good, Bubba. "It is not a "racial" term and was not used in a "racial" way, so get your head out of the gutter." There is no substantiative proof that what I said was in a "racial" way, was a "racial slur", or was meant in to "belittle" or "bully" in anyway. That is the diversion and the narrative Cullen328 and you are trying to push and I will not allow it. Not with the day I've had. GoodDay, a lot good that's going to do me since it's been a pile on since the beginning and my "defend[ing] myself" led to me getting blocked for "bludgeoning" and you telling me not to return to the discussion. So which is it? Don't return or return and defend myself? Ritchie333, what would you like me to do? Defend myself or take a hike?

Honestly after the day I've had and since I'm still on call, I don't have the time nor the patience to "play with you all right now". That's what this is, it's fuckin' game. I'm waiting on ServPro to finish up and then I gotta go back in, clear the fire department (when I left to get food for myself and feed my cats, I've been eating as I've been typing and I type fast) who still has 3 units on site, and get the carpet people in to replace the carpet, then if ServPro needs back in after, then I gotta do that. Maintenance has to replace ceiling tiles, desks, and basically everything in the room. IT has to replace computers. Front office has to take inventory and I gotta write up a report. Fuckin' paperwork is going to be a nightmare of a half. I will probably be up until dawn. Oh, and I'm waiting on the sprinkler company to replace the head and possibly a pipe, so the whole building is on "fire watch". Plus, we have school tomorrow. I have to have that room spic and span by 6:30a and a meeting with the front office by 7a explaining what happened and how much it just cost the school system.

So, you all continue with your little fuckin' game of "look at me, I'm an admin on a website, I'm important". I gonna put on dry clothes and go back to work. You all continue to play pretend and live in the land of make believe....cause that's all this is. I have to command people from 6 different school departments, 3 county agencies, 3 different companies, a fire department, a police department, and now a sprinkler company and the Department of Public Works (which runs the county's electric). Yeah, I'm in charge. So, you all have fun. I gotta go play in the real world....with a real mop and a real fuckin' hard hat. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 23:58, 18 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Defend yourself on the report about yourself. Let the 'other' ANI report (on DrKay), be pushed by ETA. I don't support blocking/banning you (fwiw). Just trying to get you out of a mess, because I've been down that rocky road before. PS - You can still edit Wikipedia, as you're only blocked (temporarily) from WP:ANI. GoodDay (talk) 00:05, 19 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I have, in fact, had to address a flooded office block, albeit from the IT side. It sucks. When you're in a better headspace, I do want to pick up the somewhat narrow question of editors and when it's appropriate to cite them, because I don't think we'd quite worked through that. Doesn't have to be at ANI, might be better if it isn't. Best, Mackensen (talk) 03:02, 19 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Mackensen: Oh, it ain't over, but I've been home since 3:45a EDT. I've had a shower and I need about 24 fuckin' hours of sleep. Because yeah, it sucks. Better headspace will only come when my supervisors get done crawling up, down, in, and out of my ass for approximately $22,000 in charges to ServPro, a carpet company, a fire sprinkler company (all working double overtime and on emergency call hours) for the damage caused (which I am not getting in trouble for). That's not including the overtime myself and 6 different departments incurred. Then we have to factor in the city's police and fire departments, which we had held for over 8 hours, plus DPW. They had to knock water and power out to approximately 20 customers for 4 hours. So, we had 20 very cold, very pissed off families sitting in a lunch room that we had to feed and kids we had to entertain. Add pizza and sides, plus soda, plus a big ass tip (and I wound up getting food for everyone on site cause I'm nice like that), about $750 before the $500 tip. All told, I estimate about $60,000, but I got to wait on time sheets and documents from every department and company.

But, maintenance has the new desks in and the teacher will be in bright and early to make the room presentable....because it destroyed that room. That's if he has a job to show up to. I will be meeting with the Superintendent and my Supervisors at 3p. I don't have to report since I just clocked out at 3:30a. I pulled an 18 1/2 hour day.

But while I was standing in slop, playing traffic cop with 8 seperate people trying to be in charge (waaay too many cooks, not enough kitchen) and I was in charge, apparently the "insult, berate, and attack Neutralhomer express train" was just a flying through every station. I do so much love this response from Lepricavark which was in response to TEA: You aren't helping. Neutralhomer has dug his heels in very thoroughly both in this thread and the one below. He has insisted on finding fault with seemingly everyone but himself. There are significant behavioral concerns that he needs to address. If your intention is to divert the focus away from Neutralhomer by making vague implications about unspecified bad impressions, then I'm going to tell you right now that it won't work. The best thing is to give Neutralhomer time to reassess the situation and respond here once his blocked is lifted.

"There are significant behavioral concerns that he needs to address." You know what.....Fuck you, Dude! My "significant behavioral concerns" are diagnosed Aspergers, Depression, and Anxiety and they just crushed a fuckin' cleanup which would've had you shitting your pants. When you can get a number of departments to work together, knock out things in a timely fashion, and ahead of your own timeline....guess what?! My "significant behavioral concerns" aren't a fuckin' issue! Maybe in your little "game world" that we call Wikipedia, but not in the real world where I just kicked that 18 hour day's ass! Take your personal attack (which I just answered with my own and justifibly so), reassess it's situtation, and then....shove it up your fuckin' ass!

There was the passing of the buck from Bilorv: it seems to me like this needs an RFC or discussion at Wikipedia talk:Verifiability or somewhere, as ANI is not the place to decide content disputes (only conduct disputes). No, Bilorv, but ANI does deal with behavioral issues, like the ones DrKay exhibited and you lot are falling all over yourselves to cover up and blame on anyone else but DrKay.

But The Exterminating Angel came back and what a fuckin' comeback it was. :) He defended himself against racial allegations, made it very clear how he is, indeed, being treated differently, and drove that point home, he made valid arguments, and even defended me (which is where Lepricavark's response came from). But the coup de grâce was this beautiful piece of work. This kid has my respect.

I find it hysterical cause you all don't realize just has fucked you really are. :) Now, I've had a really bad day and tomorrow (aka: today) isn't any better. So, the entire lot of you, get some fuckin' jobs. Seriously. You have done nothing but "play" on Wikipedia. Why the rest of us have been out kicking ass, you have been sitting on your collective asses. If you worked for me, you'd be fired. No back talk, no bullshit, just fired. Real world ain't a game and you don't live behind usernames. Wikipedia is a fuckin' game. Only thing is, no matter what, I'll still come out on top....cause you all are hopelessly stuck in the game. You think you are really something. A "Wikipedia Admin" ain't shit on a resume out here in the real world. Step outside and blow some of the stink off ya.

Now, I'm going to bed. I have "real world" shit I gotta do tomorrow. I'll probably get woke up before 3a. So, keep the "verbal abuse, slander, and libel" train going. I love documenting every minute of it. You have yourselves a good night and pleasant tomorrow. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 08:13, 19 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Just a passing observation, Neutralhomer. While reading about your crisis management is interesting (truly), the tone and tenor of this whole real world import exclamations (or even absent that, a go outside and touch grass sentiment) comes across poorly, as a besides-the-point superiority. An internet staple, if you will. A lot of work on the project involves publishing information that is critical to our readership, though granted, there is much (much) that is trivial. And, yes, there are also many who treat Wikipedia as a virtual game. But just because that is so, doesn't mean it should serve as a blanket defense against whatever.

Anyway, I've known editors who make life and death decisions, as ER doctors or first responders. I've known editors who have sent men to battle (limited to the Hebrew wiki, however). I've done stuff, too (boast?). Yet, I just don't see what the point is to even bring up any of that up in the context of an editing dispute, seemingly to bolster one's own position while diminishing that of the opposition. Which is to say: as a means of discrediting one's opponents (of whatever variety), ultimately, it comes across as needlessly hostile and OT.

Hope your sleep is restful, sounds like you did some really good work for the kids under challenging circumstances with many moving pieces, where the failure of even one could have derailed everything. So kudos. El_C 14:35, 19 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@El C: Dude! How ya been?! It is honestly good to see you. I wasn't aware you were still around. :) Hope you have been doing well. :)

The point of my posts (and this will answer GoodDay's question as well) is that while it seems the exact same people spent all day yesterday in virtually the same place talking about me (and editing other articles), I was out doing other things. I wasn't sitting around, wringing my hands and awaiting their verdict. No, I was kickin' ass. I appreciate your kudos, though, that means a lot. :)

We did amazing work and my supervisor, the various supervisors of all the departments, all the other companies, the superintendent of the school system, fire chief, police chief, and a slew of other people who were on a Zoom call agreed we knocked it out. I am insanely proud of not only my crew at my school (I'm lead custodian), but the entire crew that was out there last night. Plus the patience of the residence who's power/water we had to turn off for 4 hours. It got down to 34° last night, so they weren't happy, but they were very understanding, especially when they knew we were having them come over to the school until power would be restored.

In case anyone is wondering, the various departments and companies got a final total this morning, I was conservative in my estimate, it was more like $84,500 in a final total. Yeah, nothing we can do about that. That's what double-overtime on an emergency call will do. The teacher in question who basically allowed it to happen, I can't officially comment, but what I can say is...he'll be paying that amount back in full. He's in trouble for allowing it to happen. He's taking responsibility, but he's in trouble.

But as I said, while basically the same group of editors spent almost all day yesterday (and probably today) sitting on ANI insulting me, I was out with a crew of about 100 kickin' some total ass. My point was, instead of focusing on the "game" that is Wikipedia, which doesn't mean squat in the real world (and neither TEA nor I are the focus of the actual discussion), maybe we should focus on either the real focus (DrKay) or just focus on the real world. Because nothing important is getting done. It's just bullshit in and bullshit out. Someone breaks the rules and that person gets away with it...and the person who was the "victim" of that rule-breaking is one who gets punished. Then we have admins wandering about like they are bigshots, when they aren't. They aren't because this is a "game". "Wikipedia Admin" wouldn't and doesn't mean squat on a resume and the attitude that these admins bring to Wikipedia would get them fired in the real world. So, while they sit and insult and inflate their egos and protect their friend, DrKay, I'm not worried. I'm out there rockin' it and I'm not playing the "game". That is my point. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 00:04, 20 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Why are you telling us things about your personal life? GoodDay (talk) 15:49, 19 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@GoodDay: Read above for an answer. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 00:04, 20 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@GoodDay, Yngvadottir, DeCausa, and Lepricavark: Oh, now we are attacking TEA?

GoodDay: "Competence is required" issues? Why don't you just come out say you are a racist and a bigot?

Yngvadottir: The user is from Mexico and you think the sentence "But now I'm getting a whiff of under a bridge." is appropriate?! You know better, dude! That could be taken in so many ways and none of them good. But your edit summary "AGF is not a suicide pact". Dude, you strapped that fucker to your chest and blew it up. Suicide pact, shit, that was suicide bomb! You didn't care about AGF, you threw it out the window, and went right at the insinuations and unfounded accusations that you basically made up in your freakin' head.

I actually respected you as an editor, now you nothing more than a disappointment to me. One that throws editors under the bus, tows the "protect admins at all costs" line, and it just a racist bigot. Pathetic.

DeCausa: So, because of the plot of a Mexican/Spanish movie, of which shares the name with TEA, you have passed judgement on TEA...because of that sole reason. "Hmmm" indeed.

Lepricavark: I don't think you have NOTHERE room to talk after your little There are significant behavioral concerns that he needs to address. line from yesterday about me. I think you are here to antagonize the situation with insults, insinuations, and unfounded accusations and have now jumped on the racism train with the others. You aren't here to build an encyclopedia, maybe you are the one here to cause a "slow descent from normality into anarchy". Cause I sure don't see you don't much of anything else besides tagging talk pages via AWB. Tough work there. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 00:27, 20 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I can't speak for the others. But your last post here (your talkpage) is starting to try my patiences. FWIW, I'm of mixed race (which includes Latino) & your growing combative approach to the topic at hand, isn't helping yourself or TEA. GoodDay (talk) 00:32, 20 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@GoodDay: Yeah and you all are ganging up on a fellow Hispanic Mexican with "Competence is required" bullshit. You are making assumptions. Kinda like I just did, for which I sincerely and whole-heartedly apologize. I don't like to see anyone picked on. I don't like to see it on the job, I don't like to see off the job, I don't like see it online. I will call people out. How about you actually talk to TEA. Cause I'm going to continue to defend him, blocked or not. He's the little guy, he's the new guy. Being Autistic means I have a very strong place in my heart for sticking up for others and defending those who can't defend themselves...no matter what.

...and again, I apologize. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 00:42, 20 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

(edit conflict) Neutralhomer, your defense of a new editor who you believed to be getting a raw deal does you credit. And I respect your point about your holding a responsible job, though not your assumption that other editors don't. But IMO you've been let down by that new editor (particularly in terms of the invocation of racism). I invite you, when you have time, to look through the points I made at AN/I to justify my no longer extending the assumption of good faith; but it is of course up to you what you think of anyone, myself included. (BTW for future reference I'm a dudette.) Yngvadottir (talk) 00:54, 20 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Yngvadottir: Clarification on "dude": Back in the late 80s and early 90s, there was "dude" and "dudette", but "dudette" fell out of style. For us beach bums, we actually used, what could have been the first gender-neutral vernacular and lumped men and women together into the singular "dude". I don't think any one person made this decision, it was just done. It's kinda like the sigular "they" as in "they are going to the store" or "dude's going to the store" or "Dude?, you going to the store?". Could be anyone and is related to no one particular sex or gender. Then again, it was the 80s/90s and it was surfer culture, so we were teenagers and we were focused on having fun at the beach. We weren't really focused on intentionally insulting people, just havin' a good time, plus beach kids (Navy/Marine brats in particular) were/are surprisingly accepting. You grow up around a wide variety of people. :)

So, just for clarification, the "dude" was not done in a rude or intentional way, but I will make a point to curtail that when speaking to you. If I do let it slip, I do apologize ahead of time, but I will try extra hard not to. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 01:32, 20 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Stop accusing people of being racist. And stop insulting people in general.

I do not want to embarrass you on-wiki, but if you make another post like the one you made at 00:32 UTC, I'll block you indefinitely and remove talk page access indefinitely. You are way over the top, and way out of line, and it shows no sign of stopping. This is not a first step in a negotiation, I am not interested in discussing it. I am simply telling you what is going to happen.

I'm not trying to be sneaky or evade scrutiny by emailing instead of posting to your talk page, I am trying to give you an opportunity to de-escalate. But if you think this is underhanded for some reason, you have my permission to post this to your talk page if you want, as long as you post the whole thing.

-Floquenbeam (via email, posted with above permission)

@Floquenbeam: My Wikipedia email is connected to my private email with my real name, so I had to respond this way to contain my privacy as much as possible. Though, for the record, I don't believe you were trying to be sneaky or evade scrutiny. Appreciated, though.

Since you brought it up, and I do need clarification, how am I supposed to respond to insults made by other editors and admins toward myself, which are clearly made to elicit response (and break NPA) and the clear R-word (I'm not allowed to say) behavior regarding an editor from Mexico? How am I supposed to respond to that? Am I not allowed to defend myself or am I supposed to just "bend over and take it"? Because that's how it feels right now. Deal with it or get blocked. What am I supposed to do? - Neutralhomer • Talk • 01:54, 20 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I've been subject to a lot of unpleasant remarks during my time here, but your viscous, cowardly, and malicious insinuation that I am somehow racist is about as bad as it gets. You have absolutely no justification for such an accusation and you know it. I am sorry that you have decided to go full scorched earth like this and lash out at everyone who criticizes you. After 14 years and nearly 74K edits, it appears that you've decided to throw away your legacy on your way out the door. I don't know why you've done this, but let's be clear about the fact that you have nobody but yourself to blame. LEPRICAVARK (talk) 04:22, 20 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Lepricavark: "viscous, cowardly, and malicious insinuation"....really? How about you explain this in response to TEA: "You aren't helping. Neutralhomer has dug his heels in very thoroughly both in this thread and the one below. He has insisted on finding fault with seemingly everyone but himself. There are significant behavioral concerns that he needs to address. If your intention is to divert the focus away from Neutralhomer by making vague implications about unspecified bad impressions, then I'm going to tell you right now that it won't work. The best thing is to give Neutralhomer time to reassess the situation and respond here once his blocked is lifted.", specifically this line in particular "There are significant behavioral concerns that he needs to address." Then there is this lovely line "Yeah, I'm seeing a lot of the key indicators of NOTHERE behavior." which is right below DeCausa's despicable comparison of TEA to an unrelated Mexican film plot of the same name. You don't chide them on that, you don't say "that's out of line", you just fall into agreement "Yeah, I'm seeing a lot of..." blah, blah blah. Then you come here and pull this: I don't know why you've done this, but let's be clear about the fact that you have nobody but yourself to blame. No. No sir, you only have yourself to blame for your words and your actions. I sure as hell didn't make you say those things, you said them, you fell in line. That was your attitude, not mine. You want to prove me wrong? Explain what you meant. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 04:38, 20 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I'm not sure how you've managed to be here for 14 years without figuring this out, but the fact that my comment lies below another editor's comment does not mean that I am fully endorsing everything that the editor above me said. Utter garbage to call me a racist on such a nonexistent basis. Just unbelievably classless. Did you seriously believe you could come at half-a-dozen editors, spit all over their contributions (thanks for those nasty cheap shots at the countless hours I've spent doing boring tasks that nobody else wants to do, it really shows us all what a big man you are), and then call them all racist bigots? And now you're surprised that one of us had the temerity to fight back? And don't complain about me coming here when you're the one who pinged me. Oh, and as for my statement that there are legitimate behavioral concerns that you need to address, I feel fully justified in that remark. You are, after all, currently under sanctions for problematic behavior. But I suppose you still think you've done nothing wrong. LEPRICAVARK (talk) 05:00, 20 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Lepricavark: Ooooh, shaking in my longjohns over here (35°F at the moment out here). I'm glad you feel "fully justified in that remark", it just proves my point. You're just a little "R-word" bigoted nothing, who doth protest too much, hiding behind a username. I've shared this with a few guys here on the job (I'm working, ya see, we're trying to get this fire sprinkler system back online) and the firefighters on scene who are BIPOC...they know of Wikipedia, they know it's bullshit, and when I told them of the comments that everyone is making toward me, toward TEA, they don't take kindly to those comments. They actually think that, yes, it is indeed "R-word". Oh and the word I used, but got admonished for, I use all the time with them and they take it in the playful manner it's intended. They throw a couple back my way, we do it laughing. So, yeah. :) In case you are wondering, we are waiting on pipe. Firefighters are doing a "firewatch". So we are sitting here shooting the shit.

So, my "problematic behavior", it's just on Wikipedia. I'm still kicking ass out here in the real world. While you get to be "fully justified in that remark" no matter how "R-word" it is or how good it makes you feel. You don't have one up on me. It's still just a "game". You're living in a tiny box on a desk in your room. I'm on a public street, leaned up against my truck, with some Pantera on my radio, thinking about getting another cup of coffee, waiting on pipe, next to an Elementary School. Where in the "game" are you winning? - Neutralhomer • Talk • 05:20, 20 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Lol, good for you buddy. LEPRICAVARK (talk) 05:23, 20 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

- Neutralhomer • Talk • 05:27, 20 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

• Thanks for the ping! I don’t really have a great interest in all of this and it’s all been said anyway. I will make one observation though since I’m here. I hadn’t heard of you before and when I saw the ANI thread open up I was actually very sympathetic to you. It seemed like unnecessary dragging up old history over not very much. If you had posted nothing I’m pretty sure it would have fizzled out. But here we are. All sympathy from me has gone (not important) but you seem to be driving recklessly over a metaphorical cliff with no discernible benefit for you, WP or anyone else. Just…less is more. DeCausa (talk) 06:46, 20 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@DeCausa: No love lost here. I always drive fast, too much metal. :) - Neutralhomer • Talk • 10:23, 20 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

• @Ritchie333: *laughs hysterically* Dude, I needed this laugh this morning. :D The problem with what Nil Einne said wasn't really the language; rather, it gives credence to Neutralhomer's argument that he's being picked on and the standards are unfair. Oh now, we can't have that, now can we. LOL! Then there is this nugget: If I'm going to take action against Neutralhomer for bludgeoning the discussion, I'm absolutely going to take action against Nil Einne for a completely unhelpful personal attack, in the interests of fairness. Where is Nil Einne's block for 48 hours? Ya know, in the interests of fairness? Cause oh wait there isn't one, now is there? I call bullshit.

Don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining. Nil Einne made a personal attack, you redacted it, you got called on it, you came up with some half-assed explanation which involved Donald Trump (don't put him and me in the same talk page, not alone the same sentence) somehow, and you once again covered your ass and the ass of one of your friends....AND you lied. I'm absolutely going to take action against Nil Einne for a completely unhelpful personal attack..., but you didn't. You people are fuckin' hilarious.

Now if you'll excuse me, I gotta sign off on this new pipe, help clean up, and clear the fire department (again), the sprinkler company (again), and DPW (again). Then go home. You all have a very pleasant day. Appreciate the laughs. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 10:23, 20 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]