- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the miscellaneous page below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result of the discussion was: keep. No prejudice against SmokeyJoe's proposal, but there is a pretty clear consensus to keep. (non-admin closure) Queen of ♡ | speak 19:07, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- User:Kieronoldham/Userboxes/PeloCortado (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
All userboxes should be governed by the civility policy, something this one appears to be violating due to sexism. Saying "This user does not prefer (or does prefer) to wear short or braided hair" or "This user prefers to wear their hair long" would be fine, but this specific statement about a given user's perspective on women in general is not appropriate, and should not be hosted by Wikipedia. The formatting additionally raises visibility concerns per MOS:COLOR. TNstingray (talk) 19:53, 6 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- I was asked to create this; this can be verified in my talk page archives (see the "Archives to July 2022"). However, I don't know why this is deemed offensive. It is just a hairstyle observation/preference by a user. How on Earth is this sexist or demeaning? I have short, dark brown hair and wouldn't care less if someone said they prefer longer, blond hair or skinheads. No offense was intended - I'll leave it at that.--Kieronoldham (talk) 20:05, 6 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- If you were merely making this for someone else, then my nomination is not directed at you. I am assuming good faith about your contribution to the encyclopedia's userspace, but I hope I can provide a fresh perspective about this sort of material moving forward.
- Userboxes are intended to present information about the user themself in a positive and creative manner: their own editing philosophies, areas of interest, perspectives, etc. We have userboxes that say, "this user has brown hair", "this user has short hair", or "this user is bald", etc. Those are in line with the project: for the user, about the user. The nominated userbox is something different.
- WP:UBX promotes expressing what you like, rather than what you don't like. Userboxes should not be a space where users comment on the fashion choices or physical appearances of other people. This promotes incivility. Similarly worded boxes could be constructed to make more obviously sexist or racist statements, such as saying a user doesn't like when women wear this or that, or women with this skin tone. Why specifically target women? That's why described it as sexist. I don't believe that was your intent at all, but this userbox is the first step in this direction. I would have these concerns in mind if I received the bizarre request provided in your talk page archive. TNstingray (talk) 21:05, 6 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- I did read that, but I never thought this crossed that boundary. I see several userboxes created advocating what/whom users are against (a few random examples below):
S | This user does not like Slayer. |
No offense was intended. Regards,--Kieronoldham (talk) 21:36, 6 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Perhaps these go against the spirit of the system as well and should be discussed separately and independently. Even if I technically agree with any or all of them. I think the grey area of userboxes was intentional to provide creative freedom, but it has lead to an accumulation of toxicity that is representative of the Internet at large, not something that Wikipedia needs. Politics, religion, and popular culture are also at an entirely different level than the interpersonal. At the end of the day, Wikipedia should not host userboxes that disparage other potential users on the basis of their appearances or self-expression.
- Again, I'm not offended by you, and I'm glad you are willing to be a part of the conversation. I ultimately think the fault is revealed with the original request. I know I should maintain good faith towards him as well, but his erratic behavior on your talk page archive indicates to me that the request was not made with kind intentions. TNstingray (talk) 22:38, 6 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Here are examples of the same structure and wording that maybe reveal why I think this type of content sets a problematic precedent: "This user doesn't like when women wear glasses." "This user doesn't like short hair on men." "This user doesn't like jeans on women." "This user doesn't like when men wear necklaces." "This user doesn't like when people are bald." "This user doesn't like dreadlocks on men." See the pattern? TNstingray (talk) 22:43, 6 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- I respect your benign and impartial approach (with the first two paragraphs). I understand the specific area of focus/concern as being of concern to you, but personally I couldn't see offense generated, albeit generally. (On a side note, you'll note I did not place the UBX upon my own page.) Best regards, --Kieronoldham (talk) 22:56, 6 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Weak Keep - Slightly divisive userboxes have usually been kept, and can be kept in this case also. Robert McClenon (talk) 02:08, 7 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Weak Keep. This userbox needs to abide by MOS:COLOR, other than that I say let it pass... (unless someone can provide evidence of long term harm). - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 18:03, 7 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep But change the colors as the current colors violate accessibility for visually impaired users. Isla🏳️⚧ 22:58, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Make a new proposal on the scope of Userboxes, and when done, test it with an RfC. —SmokeyJoe (talk) 04:45, 11 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
