The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the miscellaneous page below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the discussion was delete. ···日本穣^? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 06:36, 4 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

User:BradTraylor/Battle of Imizu[edit]

User:BradTraylor/Battle of Imizu (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

This user page article had been in the main namespace for years, but it was moved to the user page on March 10, 2012 as the notability was not established. See User talk:Nihonjoe#Reassessment of Battle of Imizu. I found questionable sentences/descriptions in the article and asked for clarification. See User talk:BradTraylor/Battle of Imizu#Please clarify (note: language coding might be needed at linked pages in ja. Please select Shift_JIS). But the problem is that the user page article is the parent article of these articles in the main namespace. They can be only found at en WP. So are their main sources, "Sengoku no Kassen Zenroku" (戦国の合戦全録) Japan, 1973 and "Sengoku Jidai no Eiyu" (戦国時代の英雄) Japan, 1982. The existence of those people and the books used as ref is not verified. I think those articles should be deleted too as they are practically unreferenced and non-notable.

• Seven Spears of Imizu created by User:Sgtkabuki on 2 March 2012
• Chiba Kazusa created by BradTraylor on 3 March 2012
• Jinbo Kiyoshige created by BradTraylor on 23 August 2008
• Matsutake Kiyotaro created by BradTraylor on 9 June 2011
• Matsutake Yajiro created by BradTraylor on 3 March 2012
• Jinbo Nagakiyo created by‎ BradTraylor on 14 August 2008

Other articles with "Sengoku no Kassen Zenroku" as a source.

• Jinbo Nagatsuna created by BradTraylor on 23 December 2007
• Jinbo Yoshikata created by‎ BradTraylor on 30 August 2008 Oda Mari (talk) 09:21, 26 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: Thanks for bringing this up. When Seven Spears of Imizu was created, I too noticed that it and the articles by BradTraylor were based on sources that were neither in NDL or in Webcat. It smelled of either a hoax or of a non-notable subject. I just didn't have time to follow up on this. I think the time has come to go to print editions of a good Nihonshi jiten to see if any of these figures appear. If they do not, we should delete them all as non-notable. I will try to head over to the university library this week. Michitaro (talk) 12:09, 26 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep, for now - if it was userfied by consensus (perhaps a link would be useful), s/he should be given more than a couple of weeks to bring it up to snuff. Achowat (talk) 13:21, 26 March 2012 (UTC) Changing to delete, per below Achowat (talk) 11:48, 2 April 2012 (UTC) [reply]

I was told Therefore please don't bother posting anymore here on my private user page. [1] and the user refused to clarify. [2] That was why I filed this. Oda Mari (talk) 16:32, 26 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment Oda Mari asked me to participate, and I dimly remember involvement in this subject before, but (1) it's been long enough that I don't remember clearly, and (2) my complete lack of familiarity with Japanese means that I can't understand relevant sources. Nyttend (talk) 16:11, 26 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete all. I just got back from the library. I checked the following multi-volume Nihonshi jiten:

• Kokushi daijiten, 15 vols. (Yoshikawa Kobunkan, 1979-1997)
• Nihonshi daijiten, 6 vols. (Heibonsha, 1992-1994)
• Nihon rekishi daijiten, 21 vols. (Kawade Shobo Shinsha, 1956-1960)

None of them had an entry or mention of the above figures or of the Battle of Imizu and related seven spears. (These three all had index volumes that could give location of names of people mentioned in other entries.) Some did have articles on the Jinbo clan, but none mentioned the above Jinbos. I also looked at the Sengoku jinmei jiten (Yoshikawa Kobunkan, 2006), and some other jinmei jiten, but found nothing. Finally, I checked the Toyama kenshi (Toyama-ken, 1976-1984), which has a lot more on the Jinbo clan, and again found nothing on these figures. I think the only conclusion, even if we in AGF assume these are not hoaxes, is that these figures are so obscure they clearly violate WP:GNG. Michitaro (talk) 17:09, 26 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete as probable hoax and WP:FAKEARTICLE. –Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 20:13, 28 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete, hoax, WP:FAKEARTICLE. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 20:10, 30 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Changing to Delete - as hoax. Achowat (talk) 11:48, 2 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.