Template:User hate CCP[edit]

Template:User hate CCP (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)​

WP:UBCR and WP:POLEMIC. Divisive userbox. Broc (talk) 08:46, 11 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete. The word 'hate' should not appear in userboxes.—Alalch E. 09:08, 11 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I lean to supporting this, but not without limit. A userbox might mention hate without expressing or advocating hate.

  There are several transcluders. The transcluders should be advised of this discussion. SmokeyJoe (talk) 00:38, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Courtesy ping to the transcluders of this userbox: SunDawn Moreno Ardan1 EnverTheHero Magnatyrannus Partyfrittata R09a21045 TeddyRoosevelt1912 Carlinal Michigander901 PoisonHK Delta2571 -- Broc (talk) 07:16, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Thanks SmokeyJoe (talk) 11:11, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Broc, SmokeyJoe, specifically pinging people who are likely to !vote in a certain way is WP:VOTESTACKING. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 21:16, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  No, it is not. The proposal is to alter these people’s userpages, altering their self-introductions, with an allegation that they are doing something wrong. There are therefore key stakeholders. Their contribution here is not to vote, but to explain, or defend. If the userbox is deleted, they may be accused of disruption if they put a similar back. This outcome is an obvious failing of natural justice. SmokeyJoe (talk) 04:27, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I’ve not found the input of any of the transcluders to be persuasive. SmokeyJoe (talk) 08:46, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  If like to ask them, what is it about the CCP that they hate. Then, I’m sure it can be improved by an edit. SmokeyJoe (talk) 11:12, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep - Hate of a political class of tyrants should not be equated with a group of individuals. Robert McClenon (talk) 02:44, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  How is a party which counts 98 million members not "a group of individuals"? Broc (talk) 07:13, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep. Dislike towards an organization (that has done "things") is different than hating millions of Chinese. I didn't think the word "hate" should immediately be construed as divisive. I didn't think "hating" the Nazi Party or ISIS is violating WP:UBCR.✠ SunDawn ✠ (contact) 11:03, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Ok, now read the userbox as "This user hates the US Republican Party". Do you still consider it non-divisive? If the template said "oppose" I would have no problem with it, but hate is a different thing. Broc (talk) 12:32, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep: My usage of the anti-CCP infobox isn't of any malice towards Chinese culture or society at all, but as a protest against the party's omnipresent dominance and human rights violations that led to a moral decline within the country's political state, if not with China altogether. This includes but is not limited to Mao Zedong's cult of personality (similar with Joseph Stalin's), several massacres (Great Leap Forward, Cultural Revolution and Red August, the Tiananmen massacre and suppression of its discussion and the related), declining human and Internet rights, and other forms of crimes against humanity. That's what I hate about the party and its impact; I believe other users with the infobox aren't drastically different in motive. The party's slogan is "Serve the People", but it only serves itself, of a code not revealed to anyone with any sympathy. I wouldn't be anti-communist in the first place if all of this never happened. My use of this infobox is not light, and it speaks out for the preservation of common sense and human dignity. Carlinal (talk) 13:06, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Wording Change: I am a Hong Konger, and this template sums up a large part about my childhood in the city, so I'm definitely against deleting the template entirely (please see Hong Kong-Mainland China conflict). I personally have no problem using the word "hate" towards a political organization that has no respect for human rights whatsoever, but I can understand why some would feel problematic about this. So, I would be fine if the template is re-worded to take out the word "hate" but keep much of the meaning, something along the lines of: "This user strongly condemns the CCP (for its gross violations of human rights)". TeddyRoosevelt1912 (talk) 14:15, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Strong oppose for being more divisive than the current wording. NasssaNser 00:51, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

How is "strongly condemns" more divisive than "hates"? Broc (talk) 18:55, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete. It is disruptive to use userspace or projectspace as a WP:SOAPBOX. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 21:14, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Comment: Not to move away from focus on this infobox, but with several more examples and an entire category's worth of similarly politically charged infoboxes, how exactly does this one cross the line? Carlinal (talk) 00:00, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  This userbox being nominated doesn't mean it's special, it was just the one that happened to be nominated. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 01:40, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete Wikipedia is not the place for this; WP:SOAPBOX per above. Uhai (talk) 09:42, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete Wikipedia is not a venue for expressing hate. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 01:55, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete per Pppery. No opposition to articulated nuanced criticisms, but clumsy hate is not ok. SmokeyJoe (talk) 03:58, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete: Wikipedia is not the venue for this divisiveness, and there is nothing positive that can come from this crude criticism. —Matrix(!) {user - talk? - _uselesscontributions} 17:40, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep Hate is a strong word, so in the state it was nominated in, i'd have to agree! But this userbox is not unfixable! We are wikipedians! We can edit!. I think it would be a good choice to change the wording on this userbox, and change the name of the template. Possibly to something along the lines of "This user is opposed to the policies of the Chinese Communist Party" and the template name to "User oppose CCP"? Samoht27 (talk) 18:55, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Reword. Most just have a problem with the word "hate". Change it into "strongly condemns" or even "dislikes" would fix it. If you genuinely think all political userboxes violate WP:SOAPBOX, it would be more prudent to start a discussion on the talk page of the policy first. Northern Moonlight 00:11, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Reword: Easy to fix with "rejects", "dislikes", "condemns" or whatever. Cambalachero (talk) 04:12, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment CCP-related discussions tend to make highly heated Chinese language debates, more so when it's between a Mainlander and a non-Mainlander. NasssaNser 11:24, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment to those suggesting a rewording: is it fair to reword userboxes? The user who added it to their user page might not have meant it with the new wording. Broc (talk) 14:01, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  It's usually fair unless the changes are sweeping, most suggested rewording would change it in a way where the meaning is retained. I think this scenario rewording would be a viable option. Samoht27 (talk) 16:39, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]