Cannabis Ruderalis

August 4[edit]

File:Pilot (The Cosby Show) monopoly lesson.png[edit]

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: Keep now subject of sourced content Nthep (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)

File:Pilot (The Cosby Show) monopoly lesson.png (delete | talk | history | links | logs) – uploaded by TonyTheTiger (notify | contribs | uploads | upload log).

I replaced this image with File:Pilot Cosby Show tv guide 1984.jpg. The promo image is more significant to the episode than the screenshot of the father-son monopoly thing itself. The article Pilot (The Cosby Show) does not mention critics' reviews on the monopoly money, and the text about the scene is already understood when reading it. George Ho (talk) 01:09, 4 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Keep I have restored the image, which depicts the theme of the show. The replaced image is merely a TV Guide ad. It is not the promotional poster of the series premier and it is a shoddy version of the ad. If we had a quality version of the series premier poster that would be a consideration for an image of the theme of the show. File:Pilot Cosby Show tv guide 1984.jpg is not really preferable to the screencapture of the theme of the episode.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/WP:FOUR/WP:CHICAGO/WP:WAWARD) 01:32, 4 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I already added ads in Give Me a Ring Sometime and Hill Street Station. Also, the monopoly money thing is a subplot, as the whole episode itself introduces the father, the mother, the son, and two daughters. Another daughter is added in the middle of the first season. And other characters are added later then. --George Ho (talk) 01:35, 4 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
By the way, poor quality is not sufficient reason to remove the image. I learned in the past that improvement of the image can be made if not now. Nevertheless, I prefer the ad over the scene of the subplot/subtheme. --George Ho (talk) 01:36, 4 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Ads are better than nothing in the two cases presented. This article has a thematic depcition as an image already.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/WP:FOUR/WP:CHICAGO/WP:WAWARD) 01:38, 4 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The text is already understood without the image. Well, you can call it an add; First Person Shooter (The X-Files) calls its own image a poster. --George Ho (talk) 01:40, 4 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe you can use a free image of Monopoly money in the body text, not the infobox. In the prior discussion, which closed as "no consensus", proponents pointed out the image's insignificance and ineffective attempts to improve reader's understanding of the episode. Supporters of the image say the same reason you are saying, but I don't know why it leaned to "no consensus". In fact, "delete" should have been done. --George Ho (talk) 01:49, 4 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
(ec)The screencap depicts the theme of the show. That is what NFCC is for. Unless we have a better image, stay with the screen cap, IMO. I am open to third party opinions on this. Whatever other people say is fine by me.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/WP:FOUR/WP:CHICAGO/WP:WAWARD) 01:51, 4 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Question: Is there a way to add sourced commentary about the Monopoly money exchange in the "production" or "reception" sections? You would think some critic would mention it. The results of the RFC on TV-episode screenshots indicated that a screenshot was most likely to pass NFCC#8 if the content in the image is mentioned in sourced statements outside the "plot" section. The Monopoly-money exchange is mentioned in the lede and plot section, but these aren't sourced. Is there a reliable source that mentions it? – Quadell (talk) 17:59, 7 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    • Ref 6 discusses the monopoly money. I just don't know how to present this in the text. Where would it fit.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/WP:FOUR/WP:CHICAGO/WP:WAWARD) 23:47, 8 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
      • Hm. I would think that in either the "production" or "reception" sections, you could say something about how columnist Mike Boone noted that "understanding the special world of children" has always been a part of Cosby's comedy, and that this was present in the comical scene where Cliff and Theo discuss serious matters using play money. Something like that, sourced, would (in my opinion) justify the use of the non-free image depicting the scene. (Good find, btw) – Quadell (talk) 11:55, 9 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Both images seem to violate WP:NFCC#8 as neither image is critical to understanding the article, so delete both. --Stefan2 (talk) 13:22, 8 August 2013 (UTC) Copied and pasted by George Ho (talk) 19:07, 8 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep, since the content of the screenshot is now the subject of sourced commentary. – Quadell (talk) 17:59, 9 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

File:Pilot Cosby Show tv guide 1984.jpg[edit]

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the media below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: Delete, when used in article failed NFCC#8, subsequently orphaned and doesn't appear to be any justification for 2 non free images in the article. Nthep (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)

File:Pilot Cosby Show tv guide 1984.jpg (delete | talk | history | links | logs) – uploaded by George Ho (notify | contribs | uploads | upload log).

Not in use. There is disagreement as to which picture belongs in the article among two editors. Whichever is less desirable should be deleted. TonyTheTiger (T/C/WP:FOUR/WP:CHICAGO/WP:WAWARD) 01:42, 4 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

P.S. The effort to find the premier ad is appreciated. I welcome third party opinions on which image is preferable.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/WP:FOUR/WP:CHICAGO/WP:WAWARD) 01:51, 4 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - not a very desirable picture. Monterey Bay (talk) 03:48, 4 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    • The fact that the ad is not very desirable does not justify a reason to keep the other image. Can you vote on the other image, the screenshot? --George Ho (talk) 05:32, 4 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • (Weak) Keep - Although "not very desirable" and not a screenshot, an ad is better than either nothing or a meaningless identifiable screenshot. I don't know how the screenshot that barely shows the Monopoly money passes WP:NFCC, including "contextual significance". Per WT:FFD, a screenshot must be more than an identifiable image. Frankly, the article doesn't mention critics' comments on the Monopoly money; just brief father-son moments. --George Ho (talk) 05:52, 4 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete Violates WP:NFCC#7. --Stefan2 (talk) 20:38, 4 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    • Yes, the image is not used yet. However, I can assure you that the image is more useful than the screenshot. Why else should it be deleted? --George Ho (talk) 23:16, 4 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    • Since the question is which (if either) image is acceptable to use in the article, I think it's safe to act as if it's in use for the purpose of this discussion. – Quadell (talk) 18:01, 7 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
      • I should have checked this more carefully before writing the above. Both images seem to violate WP:NFCC#8 as neither image is critical to understanding the article, so delete both. --Stefan2 (talk) 13:22, 8 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete, this fails NFCC#8. The TV Guide promotional poster is not mentioned in sourced commentary in the body of the article itself. – Quadell (talk) 18:01, 7 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    • In other words, a film article is allowed to have a very old theatrical poster, while the TV episode is not allowed to have a promo ad? --George Ho (talk) 03:57, 8 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
      • A film's official poster is the primary way a film is visually identified, in the same way that a CD cover is the primary way an album is identified. An ad in a TV guide is just one of many advertisements. There is no universally-accepted primary way of identifying a single episode of a TV show. Regardless, I don't see how one could claim this passes NFCC#8 when it's not discussed at all. – Quadell (talk) 11:53, 8 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the media's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

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