The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 04:17, 17 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Tom Brandt[edit]

Tom Brandt (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

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28-year-old footballer played 21 games across two seasons in 2012 and 2013 for a 3rd-tier minor league team (SW). While that's a technical NFOOTY pass, there is no SIGCOV to support GNG. The most significant coverage is this ROUTINE article about his professional debut. It was published in a local newspaper that prints 3x per week, The Patriot-News (now PennLive). Their website doesn't provide editorial information (no masthead), and the owner, PA Media Group, describes itself as a "marketing agency". The remaining coverage is non-independent and not very significant. This bio is put out by the player's university announcing his joining the university's team. This ROUTINE coverage of Brandt being drafted is published by the league, MLS Soccer, and written by a freelance journalist whose beat is to cover this particular team franchise. This blog post about the player's home field debut was written by the same journalist on his personal blog, published on the website of the university's alumni magazine (The Penn Gazette). The only coverage has been from his local newspaper, his own team, and his own university. While NFOOTY is met, GNG is not, and this article should be deleted. Leviv ich 17:04, 9 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. Leviv ich 17:05, 9 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Football-related deletion discussions. Leviv ich 17:05, 9 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. Leviv ich 17:05, 9 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Pennsylvania-related deletion discussions. Leviv ich 17:05, 9 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Leviv ich 17:06, 9 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete. (Nom consulted me prior to nomming). Subject here played college (more coverage actually) and then a few gamees in the minors. NFOOTY merely creates a presumption of notability - however in this case it is clear there is no SIGCOV. His minor league stint (which went no where) is not even mentioned in a local piece mentioning him briefly helping a high school - [1].Icewhiz (talk) 18:21, 9 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep - meets WP:NFOOTBALL; needs improving, not deleting. GiantSnowman 11:53, 11 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  Absent significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject - which are lacking here (failing WP:GNG) - such an improvement is unlikely - impossible even given sourcing quality required for a WP:BLP. Keep by NFOOTY (merely presumption of GNG) means nothing for borderline NFOOTY players who are being challenged for not having anything approaching SIGCOV. Show us the sources, if you want it kept. At least 3-4 high quality in-depth sources. Icewhiz (talk) 12:18, 11 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep passes WP:NFOOTY. AFD is not cleanup, fix the flaws rather than delete the article. Furthermore, the newspaper cited in the article is most certainly not owned by a "marketing agency", it is owned by Advance Publications, which is a reputable media company. It looks like PA Media Group is responsible for technical maintenance of the website, but that's all they do. Smartyllama (talk) 13:01, 11 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  The article at issue [2] is at Blog.PennLive.com–that's the first hint. If you click on the "About us" at the bottom, it takes you to PA Media Group's about us page, which states at the top (bold added): PA Media Group is a data-driven marketing agency, delivering news and digital advertising solutions to consumers and businesses in Central Pennsylvania and all across the state. We drive daily conversations and engage millions of people through quality journalism on PennLive.com, social channels, newsletters and The Patriot-News. PA Media Group is not owned directly by Advance Publications, it's owned by Advance Local. If you go Advance Local's website, it says on the front page (bold added): Advance Local is one of the leading digital media and marketing companies, reaching more than 50 million people throughout the U.S., across multiple platforms. Advance Local, in turn, is one of several subsidiaries of Advance Publications (per their website). Advance Publications has other subsidiaries, like the magazine publisher Conde Naste, the newspaper publisher American City Business Journals, and Sports Business Group, but these are separate companies from Advance Local. So it's The Patriot-News -> PA Media Group -> Advance Local -> Advance Publications, and the Patriot-News seems far removed from Advance Publications' actual journalism entities, and is instead organized under its marketing/faux-journalism entities. The real point is that there is no indication of editorial oversight at Blog.PennLive.com. No masthead that I can find. I'm sure someone is an editor there... Leviv ich 15:36, 11 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  Regardless of the (relevant) detailed analysis of lack of reliability above - it is a very local source. Very local media coverage generally does not establish SIGCOV. Icewhiz (talk) 15:46, 11 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep passes WP:NFOOTY and I believe the sources provided along with the ones in my WP:BEFORE search satisfy WP:GNG, including [3] [4] [5] [6]. Plenty of coverage. The PennLive blog appears to be an extension of PennLive and should be considered an RS. SportingFlyer T·C 06:25, 14 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  Of the 4 sources you cite - The first - philadelphiaunion.com was his employer thus not independent (and generally not a RS). The second - Philly.com has about 2 paragraph worth - so no in depth. And the third and fourth are from blog.pennlive.com - a very local source which probably doesn't meet our RS standards. Claiming SIGCOV off of these 4 is quite a stretch. Icewhiz (talk) 07:20, 14 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• There are many other articles discussing him as a footballer as well in a simple Google search. Those are not the only four sources. As I've said, I believe PennLive does meet our standards for RS. SportingFlyer T·C 07:25, 14 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete as per nom & Icewhiz.Tamsier (talk) 11:58, 15 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep meets agreed notability criteria, this article needs improvement and AFD is not clean up. Wikipedia is not on a deadline, articles will be improved as current or new editors decide to assist. A google search finds coverage of this player, and the reliable sources mentioned above from SportingFlyer could be utilised by a willing editor to improve this. Borgarde (talk) 10:37, 16 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.