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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete‎. WP:SNOW, clear consensus to delete except among all the now-blocked socks, including the creator of the article. Bbb23 (talk) 22:45, 25 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Samson Arega Bekele

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Samson Arega Bekele (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)
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Subject does not meet criteria of WP:GNG, or WP:NBIO. He is an executive at an airline (regional director), but not the president/CEO nor vice-president. Article is written in a highly promotional tone and relies on unreliable sources such as press releases and this, which is basically written by the subject or his team rather than a professional journalist. Attempts to remove promotional content were reverted by the article's author. ... discospinster talk 16:58, 24 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]


  • Speedy delete This is the most ridiculous case of self-promotion I have ever seen on Wikipedia ("has not only reaffirmed his capacities but has also instilled in him an unwavering drive to provide unparalleled customer experiences", "Samson delivered an inspiring lecture", "In testament to his unwavering commitment to excellence and the aviation sector", etc...). Without even looking at if the sources contribute to GNG, this junk does not deserve a WP:BOGOF and would be too difficult to clean up. I have similar concerns about this user's Alkasum Abba, and others have raised concerns at The African Times USA. Reywas92Talk 17:40, 24 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
"He is a regional director and not the President/CEO" - this shows where the mistake on your path is coming from. Perhaps, you may need to research on the role of a regional director in an airline and the enormity of responsibilities they carry. That would help you in taking better decisions. Caleb Onyeabor (talk) 20:06, 24 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Speedy delete per G11: The sources used clearly suggest that this article is promotional. Also, please read the article and imagine how promotional the tone is, even without caring about the sources. Here are just some of the most blatant examples:
    • Line 22 is an extremely long paragraph that is written in an unambiguously promotional tone about his education. For someone who has graduated from a highly acclaimed university with high honors, a simple description may be enough, stating where he was educated, simple explanation of honors he claimed, and his future career, that's it.
    • The word "unwavering", which is perhaps one of the most promotional words that is to be avoided in an encyclopedia as much as possible, is mentioned four times in this article that is being targeted for deletion.
    • Literally every sentence in this article overshoots his accomplishments, which may not be existent, and the article's content may sound like the script comes from a CEO from a closely related company.

This needs to be deleted and rewritten in a completely different tone so that the common people who are not experts in business and aviation can understand it.HarukaAmaranth (話) 18:59, 24 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete - doesn't meet notability standards and contains stuff which doesn't appear to be properly verified. JMWt (talk) 19:06, 24 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Hi, what stuff is yet to be properly verified. Can you point me to it please Caleb Onyeabor (talk) 20:01, 24 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    I tried checking the claim about the "US Presidential Lifetime Achievement Award" - the reference given doesn't seem to verify the claim and I've not been able to find any other way to check it. To be fair, I didn't look for very long. JMWt (talk) 20:05, 24 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    this link can help: https://www.digitaljournal.com/pr/news/getnews/ethiopian-airlines-regional-director-honored-by-the-state-of-georgia-and-trinity-international-university-of-ambassadors-corp-
    And secondly, the award was given by the state of Georgia. It can easily be investigated if you are in the United States. All you need to do is get touch with the Georgia state authorities and you will discover that this is true. I did that before I added it to the article.  Caleb Onyeabor (talk) 20:12, 24 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    this link is a press release and thus does not verify the claim. I am not contacting Georgia state authorities and nobody else is either - if you have a weblink from the appropriate authorities confirming the claim, then that's fine. But until you do, that's not verified. JMWt (talk) 20:16, 24 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
it is wrong to make assumptions. What is non-existent and what is a script ? You are not sure of either but yet you are making a case. Is it not proper to identify what you think is non-existent? If you can't identify, why make assumptions ? Or are we all making assumptions now ? This is so unfair Caleb Onyeabor (talk) 20:43, 24 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
But it was written in English. What language do the common people who are not experts in business and aviation understand? This is another disappointing reason.  Caleb Onyeabor (talk) 21:30, 24 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The article needs to be deleted and rewritten. My Dad was a regional director for Qatar airways. I can tell that it is a powerful position. Thinking a regional director cannot achieve all these is in my view wrong. However, the article needs to be deleted and rewritten to erase alot of unnecessary adulations. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Emmirex (talk • contribs) 19:52, 24 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Which of the adulations is unnecessary? Like I said, I will prefer a counter claim. Instead of making assumptions, If you find out that any of the claim is false or non-existent, why not call it out ? Caleb Onyeabor (talk) 20:41, 24 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Again, I have asked if anyone has found any statement there that is not true ? If no one can dispute any claims in this article, I think it will be unfair to delete it. The University of Mississippi, the Canadian Chambers of Commerce and the offices of notable individuals mentioned in the article can all be contacted to verify the veracity of these claims. If they are true, why can't the truth stand ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Caleb Onyeabor (talk • contribs) 19:59, 24 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Because that's not how verification works on en.wiki. We don't generally contact the offices of notable individuals to verify that information on a page is correct - it is usually the job of whoever writes the claim to show the veracity with reference to reliable sources. JMWt (talk) 20:08, 24 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
References to those sources were added. References to the Georgia State award and the honorary degree award and others were added to the article. I did that already. Caleb Onyeabor (talk) 20:14, 24 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
i added references like this:
https://www.abnewswire.com/pressreleases/ethiopian-airlines-regional-director-honored-by-the-state-of-georgia-and-trinity-international-university-of-ambassadors-corp_662882.html Caleb Onyeabor (talk) 20:15, 24 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Please stop. Press releases are not references that verify big claims of important awards. JMWt (talk) 20:17, 24 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
These are media houses that reported the event and distributed the information. I have also provided a link that confirmed where the Canadian Chamber affirmed their awareness of the award. Is it until I provide a CNN or any extreme western media source before you can validate that an African man received an award in Georgia? That will be hypocritical and unfair. Caleb Onyeabor (talk) 20:30, 24 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
This is one of Wiki's guidelines:
"Non-independent sources (like company websites or press releases) can be used to verify facts only"
Perhaps you will need to familiarize with the guidelines and stop this hypocrisy. Caleb Onyeabor (talk) 20:34, 24 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The issue is not only whether the claims are true, but does it make the subject notable by Wikipedia's criteria? Being named an Honorary Citizen of the State of Georgia is not exactly a Nobel Prize. The only official website I could find about it describes it as a ceremonial document that anyone can request. I would not say it is "well-known and significant" as described in WP:ANYBIO. ... discospinster talk 20:50, 24 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oh Wow ! It is very embarrassing to say that being awarded a honorary citizenship is not a significant and well known honor. Are we seriously going through this now? You see why I said if we had done our research , most of these things we are saying would have been avoided. At this point, I am completely convinced that this is just a gang up. I would advise that you do some more research. Perhaps the next place you may go to tell them that being awarded a honorary citizen is not an important award, you may not withstand what you would have done to how people think of you. Caleb Onyeabor (talk) 21:12, 24 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Or maybe you should try requesting one to find out if it is given to every tom, dick and harry. Caleb Onyeabor (talk) 21:14, 24 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
From being too praiseworthy to issue of verification and now issue of whether the praises are significant enough. You keep shifting the goal posts. This is unfair. And what is unfair is not right. You know this. Caleb Onyeabor (talk) 21:20, 24 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It is very fair, and it has been the criteria for Wikipedia articles since the beginning. Otherwise anyone could have an article written about them (or write it themselves), since everyone has done something praiseworthy and probably has some kind of award given to them that not every Tom, Dick, and Harry has. ... discospinster talk 21:31, 24 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Not everyone gets a honorary citizenship from a state especially if you are from another country unless you have done something very notable. Not everyone gets inducted into the Phi Kappa Phi (You may want to check that too). Not everyone gets a Presidential Lifetime achievement award and certainly not everyone gets a business person of the year award. That's not all, not everyone gets invited to deliver a speech at Harvard business school. I am pretty sure you and I cannot get anywhere near the stage at the University of Mississippi not to talk of delivering a lecture to graduating students. Not everyone is invited to deliver such high level speech and not everyone gets awarded and received their award from the a member of Congress. And definitely not everyone can serve as the regional director of Ethiopian Airlines in the Americas. For context, the Ethiopian airlines is the largest airlines in the 54 countries of Africa. It is a big company, bigger than many in your country or continent. To serve as a regional director there is not for everyone. Not everyone oversees a $600 million operations. How many company directors handle that much ? A person who does and has received all the above is not everyone. In line with Wikipedia standards, to maintain neutrality, I wouldn't want to find a way to get in touch with the owner of this profile to supply me his correspondences so that you will also know that not everyone gets correspondences frequently from world leaders. Lastly, My dear friend, I would be much more disappointed if I realize that you are doing this out of envy. Come on ! Is it not clear already ? Caleb Onyeabor (talk) 21:51, 24 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I understand Wikipedia's guidelines so well if not I would have had a profile. And for the record, this article was not written by the said person who it was written for and neither is he aware of all this attempt to erase his records. Social media is not a credible source for Wikipedia otherwise a visit to his LinkedIn profile and the recommendations from global business and political leaders there will tell you that this Wikipedia article is just a tiny representation of the said person. Caleb Onyeabor (talk) 21:54, 24 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
and he may not be notable to you. I understand you might want to segregate and have no regards for achievers among people of color but let me make this clear to you friend, a profile like this is an inspiration to over 1 billion people in my continent. Not to the talk of the ones in the diaspora and a couple of other young people (white or not) who have dreams of being successful business executives. Caleb Onyeabor (talk) 22:15, 24 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Caleb Onyeabor, so far, none of these experienced editors participating in this discussion agree with your understanding of what is required to demonstrate notability on this project. You might consider requesting that this article be moved to Draft space because all signs are that it will be deleted despite all of your arguments to other editors. AFDs are decided by policy and consensus and if this AFD was closed today, the consensus would be to Delete and you don't seem to be listening to the judgment of editors who've been active on Wikipedia for many years. Liz Read! Talk! 22:31, 24 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Unfortunately, none of them have provided substantial reasons to or substantiated any of their reasons. They kept shifting the goal post. None of them have countered any of the facts. Just mere assumptions and hypocritical stances and even laughable ones because I read one of them talk about how a presidential lifetime achievement award and a conferment of honorary citizenship award to a foreign person is not significant. They have successfully made a mess of the "Years" they have been active here. Afterall, in almost all fields, not everyone who has spent tens of years in a role really know what they are doing. This is another example. If they want to delete it, it is mostly because the admin who nominated this article for deletion does not want to get himself to accept that black people - young black people - can achieve great things. Other factors includes: a touch of envy and then ignorance too. If this was for a white person, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Caleb Onyeabor (talk) 22:40, 24 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Caleb Onyeabor, please strike your comments. What you said is a personal attack and can result in a loss of editing privileges. It also isn't accurate, plenty of articles on people of all nationalities, races and gender face deletion discussions. This is simply a discussion about whether the sources in the article support claims of notability and have nothing to do with the race of the article subject. Your frequent commennts here and reaction to this deletion discussion make me wonder if you have some connection to the article subject that could be considered a conflict-of-interest. If so, you should declare this on your User page and stop editing this article. And again, I encourage you to request this article be draftified because otherwise it is headed towards deletion. Liz Read! Talk! 01:56, 25 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
You can dratify the article. Thank You. Caleb Onyeabor (talk) 05:51, 25 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
You saw how they moved from notability to verification to being too praise worthy to whether the awards are significant casting aspersions on the image of the state of Georgia and then they accused me of being related to Mr. Bekele and then they accused Mr. Bekele of being related to the Ambassador of Ethiopia and then one of them even claimed that the awards are on request by a local consulate when a simple fact check would have shown him that Ethiopia has no local consulate in Atlanta. It's hard to see all these and not think what I think. But it is fine. Thank you for your contributions. Caleb Onyeabor (talk) 06:30, 25 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps if you had read the external link you shared, you would have seen this:
"Honorary Citizenship – Foreign Dignitaries, prominent individuals, entertainers, or artists
Appreciation – Outstanding contributions to the City and citizens of Atlanta (including monetary, in-kind donations, cultural contributions or volunteer efforts)
Heroism"
How can you read this and still claim someone who received a honorary citizenship is not notable enough ? from the same link you shared, it showed that people who receive honorary citizenships are foreign dignitaries, PROMINENT individuals, entertainers and artists. How is any of these not prominent ? May I also point you to other links where Presidents of countries received same honor? If it is trivial, will it be given to Presidents ? You just shot yourself on the foot with the "Notable" claim.
Someone who is notable to over 1 billion people is not notable to you because you do not know the person ?
And lastly, that honor was given by the state of Georgia and not the city of Atlanta. Bekele was conferred with honorary citizenship of Georgia as a whole and not of the city of Atlanta as there was no mention of the mayor but there was mention of secretary of state and a legislator. A simple research or fair conscience would have shown you that. 
Anyway, We all know the truth. Caleb Onyeabor (talk) 11:57, 25 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Speedy delete G11. Wikipedia is not Linkedin. Mccapra (talk) 20:44, 24 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Wikipedia is a fact based platform. Which of the presented facts do you have a problem with ?  Caleb Onyeabor (talk) 20:48, 24 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete, as it uses rather biased words not really suitable for Wikipedia. 2NumForIce (speak|edits) 22:55, 24 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    can you point me to some biased words in the article and why they are biased? Perhaps that can help going forward. Caleb Onyeabor (talk) 23:06, 24 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • I have tagged for CSD G11. I would not normally do so when a discussion is already open, but this is egregious. In the event the speedy is declined, delete for the numerous reasons above. Blatant promo. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 23:48, 24 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per comments. Non-notable individual seeks vanity article.
@Caleb Onyeabor, if Mr. Bekele is as gifted as you say, I’m sure he’ll get an article when he becomes CEO someday. In the meantime, the editors above have explained the many ways this article fails to meet this site’s requirements for inclusion. They’re just following the site’s rules. We’re not allowed to waive them here.
If you find our rules onerous, we’re just one website among millions, many of them much better suited to promoting Mr. Bekele. I encourage you to check them out.
I’ll also note the the U.S. State of Georgia cheerfully gives out honorary citizenshipships when politely asked, usually by a local consulate in Atlanta. The fact that the Ethiopian ambassador in Washington is also named Bekele may have helped this process.
—A. B. (talk • contribs • global count) 01:24, 25 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
This is just not true. I guess the more I try to explain, the more complicated it becomes Caleb Onyeabor (talk) 05:52, 25 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
And I think I need to make this clear, I am not promoting Mr. Bekele. I don't know him from anywhere. I have never met him. My focus on this platform is to contribute to edits on personalities and issues in the global black community so that there will be a balance. Thank You. Caleb Onyeabor (talk) 05:56, 25 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
—A. B. (talk • contribs • global count) 01:57, 25 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
This is why I kept talking about the fallacy of making too many assumptions. Ethiopia doesn't have a local consulate in Atlanta. I just checked now and found out that you are wrong. There is no such thing as local consulate. I hope you realize that you are insulting the state of Georgia with these assumptions by saying their awards are trivial. It is not good. Thank You. Caleb Onyeabor (talk) 06:10, 25 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
So you are saying Bekele is related to the ambassador because they share the same name ? Oh Wow ! And that the State of Georgia, as big as it is, cannot do a simple investigation to differentiate the Bekele who is an overall ambassador to the USA and the Bekele who is a business executive? You mean if I come to the US now and change my name to Obama, the authorities will be so easily deceived to give me honors that are due to Obama ? I hope you take a deep breath sometimes later and reflect on what you have just said. Thank You.  Caleb Onyeabor (talk) 06:14, 25 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

DRATIFY: Move to the draft space. It is only fair to move to the draft space perhaps that will provide an opportunity for other editors to verify the claims. I really did a lot of research for this. It is sad it is turning out this way. I will be fine.

  • Speedy delete: Per norm, this are the same issues am dealing with everyday on West African articles, from the issues of PAID pr/puff pieces to actually knowing if a subject is credibly notable. Jamiebuba (talk) 13:25, 25 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete: per WP:GNG. XtraJovial (talk • contribs) 13:44, 25 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oh Wow ! For God sake, is notability an exclusive reserve of the western world ? Do Africans need Western validation to be notable ? Why are we towing this line ? Caleb Onyeabor (talk) 14:03, 25 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
No, there are plenty of great articles here about Africans written by Africans, but if you can't figure out what kinds of sources should be used and that it's unacceptable for an encyclopedia article to be so full of fluffy promotional language like "ignited", "coveted", "distinguished", "flourish", "currents of destiny" (LOL, hadn't noticed that before!), "monumental", "effective", "trail of accomplishments", "unwavering determination", "adeptly", "unwavering", "unwavering", "momentous", "esteemed", "enriched", "privileged", "inspiring", etc. etc., then you shouldn't be writing articles here. Jesus, not even actual PR copy is this hyped. (By the way, it's "toeing the line".) Reywas92Talk 15:10, 25 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Since the problem is now about grammatical correctness: You may also want to take a look at what I found about what you wrote:
1. The sentence lacks proper punctuation and structure, making it difficult to read.
2. The sentence includes informal language ("LOL") that might not be appropriate for formal writing. I am pretty sure you would fail an examination in English language if you use that again.
3. The phrase "not even actual PR copy is this hyped" could be rephrased for clarity.
4. The sentence ends abruptly with "Jesus," which might not be suitable in this context.
If you'd like, I can help you rewrite the sentence to correct these errors. Caleb Onyeabor (talk) 15:50, 25 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I was told some years ago that when some white people hear about the achievements of a black person especially in the corporate world, the first thing that comes to their mind is "How was he able to achieve this? Is he not black?"... This is the closest I have seen to the above.
I have been wondering why and Wikipedia provided me an answer here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_bias_on_Wikipedia
And oh Wow ! It is real.
Now I know better my friend. Now I see it clearly. Caleb Onyeabor (talk) 15:54, 25 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I was thinking I would go to your profile and find sources from ivy league institutions 😂 Only to discover that most of your articles rely on the usual media sources and even the same Press releases that people like you consider inappropriate. How do you advocate for one rule for the goose and another for the gander ?
I can't believe I have to deal with this here. Caleb Onyeabor (talk) 16:02, 25 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Before I forget, there is supposed to be an exclamation mark after Jesus not a comma as it is used as an interjection. Thank You. Caleb Onyeabor (talk) 16:11, 25 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
FYI, my Grandma is Nigerian and I love her so much. Look, the fact is some of these sources are problematic and if you are being honest you will agree, that again is your opinion. I personally have created some African articles which I know are notable. If everyone could afford a paid article on one of the top newspapers in a country then practically everyone or anyone would be on Wikipedia.
You are not being hated on, nether is there anyone being racial. You can try creating other articles on other subjects be it Africa, Europe or western. As an editor with good intentions towards Wikipedia, I hope you do not take this personally, but instead work on another another as advised. Cheers. Jamiebuba (talk) 18:58, 25 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I suggest you open your mind to knowing about Africa. That you don't know what goes on in the continent or know the prominent personalities in the continent does not mean that They are not there. Perhaps if you do, it can help you easily ascertain whether a subject is notable or not. I thought Wikipedia is a global platform ? Caleb Onyeabor (talk) 15:02, 25 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Bbb23, I see you removed Trainsandotherthings's G11 tag on the article because it's at AFD, but including his comment we have seven votes for a speedy deletion so perhaps you could WP:SNOW close. The above is approaching WP:CIR and even WP:NOTHERE in thinking this is a racial bias issue or even grammar. Reywas92Talk 19:29, 25 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Samson_Arega_Bekele

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