The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete.  JGHowes  ^talk 02:50, 18 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Jim Acree[edit]

Jim Acree (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)

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Fails WP:GNG and WP:NSPORT. Lacks enough significant coverage to establish notability. 4meter4 (talk) 15:47, 10 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete the article lacks the secondary sources that are 100% needed to show a high school football coach was notable. If this article is kept than everyone who has ever been head coach at any of the 10,000 high school football programs in the US will get an article. Down that road lies madness.John Pack Lambert (talk) 15:56, 10 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 15:58, 10 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of American football-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 15:58, 10 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Oklahoma-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 15:58, 10 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• I added some sources (tbh I think when I created the article in 2007, most of the content came out of Pigskin Pulpit, but I don't have a copy anymore so I can't verify). Acree probably doesn't meet WP:NCOLLATH since he was only a minor role player in the 1950s juggernaut Oklahoma Sooners teams, but I would argue that his notability as a high school football coach is sufficient; he coached the team that won Corsicana's lone state championship 58 years ago, for which they put up a life-sized statue of him. --bender235 (talk) 17:05, 10 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep per sources added by me and bender235. Also, a search of '"Jim Acree" coach' brings up 2,176 results on Newspapers.com. BeanieFan11 (talk) 17:24, 10 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete Of the sources currently in the article ([1]):
  1. is a local publication and mostly focused on quoting tributes from former students
  2. is the same local publication and seems even less independent of the subject than the other (quoting him, too)
  3. is reporting on the statue, not the coach, giving only very little material which could be used to write a biography
  4. same local pub. as 1 and 2; not significant coverage of the coach (he's only namechecked - you could replace his name with "John Doe" and everything else would literally not change at all)
  5. can't access so no comment on the coverage, but [[Arcadia Publishing] focuses on local interest publications so I'm not sure this would be that significant. The book seems to be mostly focused on the town itself, anyways
  6. an interview
  7. routine local news coverage, including quoting the subject. Likely not significant overage
  8. Only a very short article, the coach is only namechecked
  9. local publication, likely the closest to significant coverage of all the available sources, but it seems very routine to me
• Therefore, the subject does not appear to meet WP:SIGCOV with the current sources, and there's nothing that indicates he has significant and enduring notability outside of the local town. Some of the coverage would not be included in an article anyway, as its WP:NOTNEWS RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 15:46, 11 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  According to the WP:GNG guidelines there is no difference between local or national sources. So it’s not fair to state because that local sources are not counting towards notability. SportsOlympic (talk) 18:31, 11 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  According to GNG, sources need to be independent of the subject (which is dubious for some of these local sources), and WP:SPORTBASIC also tells that this is a concern to be taken into account. There are plenty of local youth football coaches. If they only get coverage in local sources whose independence is hard to establish, it likely is the case that they aren't noteworthy. Additionally, per GNG, the coverage needs to be significant: much of the coverage is also very routine, so that doesn't help. I stand by my analysis. RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 18:47, 11 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  The way things work is that even if an article meets WP:GNG, that doesn't mean we automatically include it: it also has to get through WP:NOT. WP:NOTNEWS stands for the principle that routine coverage can't make someone notable, and what we have here so far is routine coverage. We also have WP:YOUNGATH which excludes the majority of youth sports coverage - while he wasn't a youth athlete, he was a youth coach. Otherwise we'd have thousands of articles on youth sports coaches! There's no reason why we can't include him in the article on the high school which erected a statue of him, so I'd support a partial merge and redirect there. SportingFlyer T·C 20:14, 11 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  I doubt that there is "thousands" of youth coaches who have received the kind of coverage Acree has. How many high school coaches get statues made of them? BeanieFan11 (talk) 20:22, 11 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete We do not typically include articles on youth sports coaches in the encyclopaedia, especially if like Acree they don't achieve any sort of notability outside the area where they coach. I agree with RandomCanadian's source analysis, and note that hits on newspapers.com are not necessarily indicative of notability as over half of them were to his town's local paper. He also appears to be neither a notable assistant coach nor a notable college player - a couple articles I've found describe him as a reserve. Interestingly, he was on the collegiate boxing team, the first time I've ever heard of one... SportingFlyer T·C 16:55, 11 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep meets WP:GNG, coverage in multiple independent sources. ( According to the GNG guidelines it doesn’t matter if it’s a local source.) SportsOlympic (talk) 18:31, 11 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete. RandomCanadian and SF's analyses are spot-on. Plenty of high school coaches receive the level of routine local coverage Acree has; that doesn't mean any of them are notable. GNG also isn't an automatic pass for article creation. JoelleJay (talk) 21:48, 11 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

How is all the coverage just, routine? Calling this all routine is like saying: "Oh yeah its so common that over 15 different newspapers will write articles about a high school coach., or, its common that school coaches are called 'legendary' by the top newspaper in the state capital (the state that's produced the most football players), or finally, its just routine that statues will be made of coaches at just the youth level." Also, if GNG isn't a pass for creation, then what is? BeanieFan11 (talk) 17:12, 12 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

That obituary was in the "obituaries" section, and as it was not clearly written by a staff writer, was likely supplied by a family member (and therefore not independent.) SportingFlyer T·C 17:22, 12 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.