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Case opened on 07:42, 30 March 2022 (UTC)
Case closed on 14:20, 27 May 2022 (UTC)
Case amended by motion on 10:35, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

Involved parties[edit]

• Hurricane Noah (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• MarioProtIV (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• LightandDark2000 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• United States Man (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Chlod (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Elijahandskip (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• HurricaneCovid (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Prior dispute resolution[edit]

• ANI post (permalink) by Compassionate727

Preliminary statements given in the case request stage may be found at /Preliminary statements.

Clerk notes[edit]

• LightandDark2000 - your statement and its edit summary contain veiled aspersions at the filer of this case and other participants. Such behaviour is not acceptable at Arbitration - I would remind you to keep your statements related directly to the matter at hand, and avoid unproductive or personalised comments. Your pre-emptive request for a word limit extension is declined given that by your own admission you are unlikely to actively participate further in the case request. firefly ( t · c ) 10:08, 28 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Chess, I consider my involvement in the WPTC Discord to be minimal (most of it involves WPTC members who have decided that I should be pinged for every sockpuppet problem they come across, though I concede that I fussed at the members of the Discord for their the other day prior to this case request being filed). I am certainly not an "active participant". I do not believe that my involvement to date impacts my ability to remain neutral, though if the arbs feel differently I will recuse. GeneralNotability (talk) 01:27, 29 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Arbitrators' opinions on hearing this matter (10/0/0)[edit]

• I'm tentatively inclined to accept. The private evidence combined with the note from TheresNoTime that multiple warnings were given and it seems no one is listening are a good basis to open a case. Best, KevinL (aka L235 · t · c) 06:17, 27 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Accept. KevinL (aka L235 · t · c) 23:47, 28 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

    @Chess: We don't have an established formal path for asking for a clerk to recuse, but if you really want to submit such a request, you may do so via clerks-llists.wikimedia.org. Anyone wishing for an arbitrator (not a clerk) to recuse should follow the procedure at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Policy § Recusal of arbitrators. Best, KevinL (aka L235 · t · c) 02:49, 29 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• I agree with Kevin. Primefac (talk) 06:43, 27 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Cabayi, the opening statement by Compassionate727 at the linked ANI thread pretty clearly states that a closed discussion was re-opened and then re-closed with a different outcome because editors on Discord decided amongst themselves that the discussion should not be closed in the original manner. See specifically Special:Diff/1078681645. Primefac (talk) 09:43, 27 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Accept per my previous. Primefac (talk) 11:38, 27 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• I have been aware of this for quite some time, I logged on to the discord server to give a canvassing warning some months ago, which remained as a pinned post. I agree a case may be required, but equally, I am concerned about the scope. The server is out of our jurisdiction, for example, though we can accept private evidence regarding it Worm^TT(talk) 07:38, 27 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Accept. Noting (in response to Serial Number 54129) also that I do not believe that anyone needs to recuse over this case. We have a number of arbitrators who use discord on a different server. I do not believe any arbitrators have been involved in any of the discussions in question, except in a purely administrative capacity to warn the individuals in question. Worm^TT(talk) 18:56, 27 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  @Chess, I strongly disagree that I have been involved in a conversational, non administrative role. It's easy to see all 4 posts I have made to the server, which I would rather not clutter this page with - but I will summarise. 1) "Hello" 2) A warning in July 2021 about canvassing - this was about 4 paragraphs long and has remained as a pinned post on the server since 3) In response to the ANI thread on 26 March (above) where I was pinged, I accessed the server for the first time since July and I made 2 posts within 2 minutes - each was based on a quick read of the situation at that time. First expressing my disappointment and deferring to TNT, who I believed was handling the situation. 4) Secondly in response to Hurricane Noah's request for a block specifically stating (on discord) that they were "falling on their sword". I pointed out that we fix forward on Wikipedia and quitting was not a noble act.

  That is the sum total of my comments from my perspective, each made in a purely administrator capacity. Worm^TT(talk) 08:25, 28 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  @Joe Roe, it appears we're fast on the way to opening the case, but I disagree that it should have the wider scope regarding Discord. Indeed, any such discussions regarding Discord as an off-wiki venue should be held by the community as part of wider discussions. It would only fall to Arbcom if the community were unable to handle such discussions, and I don't believe that's the case. Worm^TT(talk) 13:53, 28 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• "The server is out of our jurisdiction," but on-wiki decisions tainted by it may need to be nullified & the discussions re-run. I'd be swayed by evidence showing that any on-wiki discussions had been materially tainted by collusion exclusionary collaboration off-wiki. Cabayi (talk) 09:35, 27 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Thanks Primefac. ∃>1 instance, ∴pattern of behaviour, Accept Cabayi (talk) 10:57, 27 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Aceept per Kevin and Prime. - Donald Albury 15:15, 27 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Accept --BDD (talk) 15:21, 27 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Accept given the previous warnings about canvassing suggesting an ongoing issue that needs examining and can only be done by ArbCom because of the offwiki evidence involved. TheresNoTime can I ask why you only blocked one of the two people coming out of that ANI? Barkeep49 (talk) 15:43, 27 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  @Moneytrees: you are correct we're talking behind the scenes. I expect we will use what we did during the GSoW case which had a fair amount of private evidence as a starting point and make adjustments from there. As you can see here it is also possible for some evidence to be public. Barkeep49 (talk) 03:14, 28 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Joe if we do our job right (which is obviously no guarantee) I think the final decision in this case which will be useful to editors who frequent other Wikipedia related Discord servers in how to avoid certain issues. We can do that without making the scope as large as you suggest, and which is not supported by the evidence submitted to us or the public statements here. More generally, the Village Pump discussion you link to shows community consensus about this matter. I get that you think the consensus is there because of an ArbCom decision of long ago and that a new decision now could shift that consensus, but I don't see this committee overriding a community consensus in that way. I have some more thoughts I'll share at your user talk as well. Barkeep49 (talk) 14:55, 28 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Accept the off-wiki nature of this issue is exactly what makes ArbCom the appropriate body to deal with it. Beeblebrox (talk) 17:56, 27 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Accept per above. — Wug·a·po·des​ 20:44, 27 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Accept I just got back from a wikibreak for RL business, but having read this over now, I agree with the above as well. Opabinia regalis (talk) 07:00, 29 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Temporary injunction (none)[edit]

Final decision[edit]

All tallies are based the votes at /Proposed decision, where comments and discussion from the voting phase is also available.

Jurisdiction[edit]

1) The Arbitration Committee has jurisdiction only over the behavior of editors on the English Wikipedia. While the Arbitration Committee may take note of off-wiki behavior for the purposes of settling on-wiki disputes and in its remedies, restricting the off-wiki behavior of users is not within its remit.

Passed 12 to 0 at 14:20, 27 May 2022 (UTC)

Off-wiki communication[edit]

2) While discussion of Wikipedia and editing in channels outside of Wikipedia itself (such as IRC, mailing lists, or web forums) is unavoidable and generally appropriate, using external channels for coordination of activities that, on-wiki, would be inappropriate is also improper. That such conversations can be, or are, done in secret makes it more difficult to detect but does not reduce the impropriety of holding them.

Passed 12 to 0 at 14:20, 27 May 2022 (UTC)

Presumption of coordination[edit]

4) When a group of editors consistently and repeatedly participate in the same discussions to support the same point of view — especially when many or most of the members of that group had little or no prior participation in the underlying dispute — it is reasonable to presume that they could be coordinating their actions. Evaluation of consensus in particularly divisive or controversial cases need to carefully weigh the possibility and avoid ascribing too much weight to the number of participants in a discussion — especially when policy enforcement or sanctions are considered.

Passed 12 to 0 at 14:20, 27 May 2022 (UTC)

Consensus[edit]

5) Wikipedia relies on consensus as its fundamental editorial process. Consensus develops from agreement of the parties involved. To ensure transparency, consensus cannot be formed except on Wikipedia discussion pages. "Off-wiki" discussions, such as those taking place on other websites, on web forums or on IRC, are not taken into account when determining consensus.

Passed 12 to 0 at 14:20, 27 May 2022 (UTC)

Building consensus: WikiProjects[edit]

6) WikiProjects have no special status in developing consensus on matters of content, policy or procedures. Any Wikipedia editor may participate in developing a consensus on any matter that interests them.

Passed 10 to 0 at 14:20, 27 May 2022 (UTC)

WPTC Discord server[edit]

1) WikiProject Tropical cyclones Discord server encourages compliance with the wider Wikipedia community's expectations. It is advertised on-wiki at Wikipedia:WikiProject Tropical cyclones and Wikipedia:Discord#Other servers, along with an invitation link. There are no pre-conditions to join. Users on the server are asked to authenticate their accounts to their Wikpedia accounts using WikiAuthBot. The server's rules are pinned in a #rules channel dated 28 May 2021. Notably, the rules mirror WP:Harassment, WP:CANVASS, & WP:OUTING.

1. Be nice and respectful to each other. No slurs or hateful language, personal attacks, harassment of other members will be tolerated.

5. Canvassing of discussions (WP:AFD, WP:GAN, WP:RFA, WP:RFC, etc.) is prohibited. Links to discussions can be removed without warning.

6. Be mindful of your own privacy and the privacy of other members. This server is not private, anyone can access it. Do not post personal information (phone, address, name, etc.)

The Discord server also supports the Hurricanes Fandom wiki which may lead to divergent objectives among its users.

Passed 10 to 0 with 1 abstentions at 14:20, 27 May 2022 (UTC)

WPTC Discord server warnings[edit]

2) Three uninvolved administrators joined the server in 2021 and 2022 to warn its members against improper off-wiki coordination. One such warning, by Worm That Turned, was pinned as a reminder to its members about appropriate expectations. (preliminary statements, private evidence)

Passed 11 to 0 at 14:20, 27 May 2022 (UTC)

Behavior at merge discussion[edit]

3.1) Hurricane Noah proposed a merge on an article, prompting 5 other individuals to comment over a 6 month period. The discussion was closed with consensus to merge by Compassionate727 who had not participated. Very soon after, MarioProtIV reopened the discussion, followed by Hurricane Noah re-closing it as withdrawn with no consensus despite both having been involved participants. During the merge discussion, Hurricane Noah and another participant Destroyeraa noted their off-wiki discussions, though MarioProtIV did not.

Passed 11 to 0 at 14:20, 27 May 2022 (UTC)

Edit warring by proxy[edit]

4.1) MarioProtIV, Elijahandskip, and Chlod have on multiple separate occasions used the WPTC discord server to ask for other editors to intervene in content disputes where they had already performed three reverts and did not want to be blocked. (private evidence)

Passed 9 to 1 at 14:20, 27 May 2022 (UTC)

LightandDark2000 targeting of editors[edit]

5) LightandDark2000 used Discord to target Chicdat and United States Man, including attempts to get server participants to participate in conduct discussions against them and to revert their edits. He was warned against this by some server members, including Hurricane Noah, and members of the server expressed a range of opinions in the onwiki conduct discussions. (private evidence)

Passed 11 to 0 at 14:20, 27 May 2022 (UTC)

Elijahandskip[edit]

8) Elijahandskip over a two month period in early 2022 used the WPTC Discord server to bring attention to the actions of United States Man. This served to support the targeting of United States Man by LightandDark2000. (private evidence)

Passed 8 to 1 at 14:20, 27 May 2022 (UTC)

Chlod[edit]

9) Chlod has served as a moderator of the WikiProject Tropical Cyclone Discord server since October 2021. Since that time, on multiple separate occasions he used the WPTC Discord server to ask for other editors to intervene in content disputes, to avoid being blocked, after having already made three reverts. At other times, Chlod did remind server members of Wikipedia behavioral expectations, including cautioning against canvassing.

Passed 8 to 1 at 14:20, 27 May 2022 (UTC)

All remedies that refer to a period of time (for example, a ban of X months or a revert parole of Y months) are to run concurrently unless otherwise stated.

MarioProtIV & NAC[edit]

4) MarioProtIV is indefinitely banned from closing, or reopening, any discussion outside their own user talk space. This restriction may be appealed after 12 months.

Passed 7 to 2 at 14:20, 27 May 2022 (UTC)

Chlod warned[edit]

6a) Chlod is warned about using off-wiki platforms in an attempt to win on-wiki disputes.

Passed 9 to 0 at 14:20, 27 May 2022 (UTC)

Elijahandskip warned[edit]

7a) Elijahandskip is warned about using off-wiki platforms in an attempt to win on-wiki disputes.

Passed 9 to 0 at 14:20, 27 May 2022 (UTC)

LightandDark2000 topic ban[edit]

8) LightandDark2000 is indefinitely topic banned from pages about weather, broadly construed. This ban may be appealed six months after the enactment of this remedy, and every twelve months thereafter.

Passed 10 to 0 at 14:20, 27 May 2022 (UTC)

MarioProtIV topic ban[edit]

Recommended practices for off-wiki chat platforms[edit]

10) Leaders/moderators of off-wiki chat platforms (i.e. IRC, Discord, Telegram) should consider the following practices for their platform:

• Advertised on-wiki, including at relevant Wiki Project pages and more general pages (e.g. WP:DISCORD).
• Instructions and links on how to join are provided.
• Users are asked to authenticate to their onwiki identity.
• The rules and expectations are posted in a prominent place (e.g. a read-only channel). WP:HARASSMENT, WP:CANVASS & WP:OUTING are considered in those rules and expectations.
• There is active moderation to enforce the rules and expectations. The moderation team is made up of trusted members and is sufficiently large for the size of the platform/channel.

Passed 6 to 0 with 2 abstentions at 14:20, 27 May 2022 (UTC)

Enforcement of restrictions

0) Should any user subject to a restriction in this case violate that restriction, that user may be blocked, initially for up to one month, and then with blocks increasing in duration to a maximum of one year.

In accordance with the procedure for the standard enforcement provision adopted 3 May 2014, this provision did not require a vote.

Appeals and modifications

In accordance with the procedure for the standard appeals and modifications provision adopted 3 May 2014, this provision did not require a vote.

Motion: WikiProject Tropical Cyclones (September 2023)[edit]

Passed 9 to 0 by motion at 10:35, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

Any block, restriction, ban, or sanction performed under the authorisation of a remedy for this case must be logged at Wikipedia:Arbitration enforcement log, not here.