The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep‎. King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 07:12, 27 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Michalis Attalides[edit]

Michalis Attalides (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)

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Article about a real person, which does not indicate the importance or significance of the subject and does not meet criteria for WP:PROF and WP:GNG. The Wiki project proposed guidelines of WP:ACAD do not supersede the PROF and GNG. Lethweimaster (talk) 10:27, 5 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep per WP:PROF - Notability (academics) - Criterion 6

• "The person has held a highest-level elected or appointed administrative post at a major academic institution or major academic society."

Michael Attalides was the rector of Intercollege, subsequently renamed the University of Nicosia.^[1] Rector was/is the highest post at that institution.

--A. B. ^{(talk • contribs • global count)} 16:57, 5 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, my concern is that University of Nicosia doesn't seem to be considered a major academic institution. If we are too loose, any rector of any university around the world would require a wiki page. For example, the rector of Cyprus West University is Ömer Camcı, if a editor would make a case that Cyprus West University is a major academic institution, it could argue that he could have page Ömer Camcı. I do not believe it's accurate. The University of Nicosia which is a private fairly unknown institution, is just one institution among all the ones in Cyprus. See List of universities and colleges in Cyprus. Therefore Attalides who is the rector of a relatively unknown academic institution and clearly doesn't pass WP:GNG, in my opinion fails notability guidelines. To me a major academic institution or major academic society refers to major institutions such as Harvard or University of Oxford-(Rector: Irene Tracey) etc. Lethweimaster (talk) 19:22, 5 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Lethweimaster that's an interesting take. "Major academic" is a pretty weaselly word when I think about it. McGill University, yes, of course. What about the University of Hawaii? Yukon University? I have taken for granted that a big university is a major academic institution (Yukon U is not big, the U of Hawaii is).

I see the University of Nicosia ranks in the 501 to 600 tier of The Times worldwide university rankings, which is better than I expected. It's supposedly the biggest in Cyprus.

We'll see what others say about "major".

We used to have a notability noticeboard but it's defunct.

--A. B. ^{(talk • contribs • global count)} 20:41, 5 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

NPROF further says "significant accredited college or university". I don't know anything about the university, although it seems to be accredited, e.g. by EQAR. That leaves "significant", which could be taken to mean many things. I would expect the institution to meet Wikipedia's notability guidelines at a minimum, but there are likely other considerations (the university here being for-profit seems like a red flag to me, for example). Suriname0 (talk) 19:25, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I had the same concerns, that's why I put it up for AFD. The university is indeed accredited, for what it means (accreditation is just a matter of paying the right people). The real criteria: "Significant University" is in my opinion, not even close to being fulfill. There is a ton of for profit universities and it's in their advantage, for maximum tuitions, to have their rector on wikipedia. I agree with Suriname0. Lethweimaster (talk) 20:01, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I know others have different interpretations, but for me and from my American perspective, "major academic institution" is correlated to the amount of research that occurs at that institution (so generally, this refers to R1 and R2 institutions, per this list, with exceptions for very large public universities like the University of Hawaiʻi and prominent liberal arts colleges like Smith College). Again, that's my personal interpretation, so do with it what you want. I'm not sure of the Cypriot system of this, so I don't want to make a bold assertion of this case, but I'm bearish considering this is a private for-profit institution. Curbon7 (talk) 07:03, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Just confirming I have precisely the same intuitions about the US system. Hopefully someone more familiar with EU-country systems can chime in... Suriname0 (talk) 16:50, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Academics and educators-related deletion discussions. —David Eppstein (talk) 06:15, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Politicians and Cyprus. Curbon7 (talk) 07:06, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep -- per WP:PROF#6. Generally "significant accredited" University has been taken quite broadly in WP:PROF discussions to mean most universities with some history or a thousand students. Any university which makes the Times Higher Education listing of top world universities--at any ranking--is significant. Throw on top of that the ambassadorships (which are not sufficiently notable in themselves but can help to imply notability) and this seems like a pretty easy keep. -- Michael Scott Asato Cuthbert (talk) 06:13, 11 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Dusti^{*Let's talk!*} 14:44, 12 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment Not to WP:BLUDGEON the discussion, but after re-reading the conversation, as well as the article, including the University of Nicosia, which is For Profit, I believe the rectors's page may have been written as a vanity page (COI) for the University's benefits and credibility.Lethweimaster (talk) 15:11, 12 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep. I agree that this page has some issues, but I'm inclined to support the WP:NPROF argument. From what I know about the European system, sheer research volume matters a good bit less than in the US. However, we should substantiate the idea that this is a "major" institution. For me, that standard is probably met by this university's ranking in the Times – note that it's also in the top 200 for Business & Economics. Actualcpscm ^{scrutinize, talk} 15:51, 19 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting as there are several editors raising doubts about the significance of the education institution this subject is at even though they haven't registered "Delete" votes. Seems worthy of a bit more consideration despite the numerical majority of those advocating Keep. Of course, a closer can bring this discussion to an end at any time.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 18:27, 19 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per WP:NPROF. Obviously a significant institution. Plus multiple high level posts in government. WilsonP NYC (talk) 20:44, 19 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

What makes it "obvious" that it's a significant institution? Many users were very unsure actually. Lethweimaster (talk) 11:42, 21 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.