The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. The Bushranger _{One ping only} 06:42, 19 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Latif Halmat[edit]

Latif Halmat (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

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Vanity article of non-notable writer Hassan Rebell (talk) 16:23, 12 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete. I disagree with the nominator's assertion that this is a vanity article. However, it does not cite any reliable sources; not only does that mean it's deletable per WP:GNG, but it also means it could be subject to a procedural deletion via WP:PROD BLP. —C.Fred (talk) 16:27, 12 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • The article seems to be part of a walled garden of cruft, most from the same editor. I made a search on Google books which didn't show anything notable for this person. The article does not meet WP:N. On Amazon I can see at most one book which is perhaps from this person and which is unavailable and without book cover. --Hassan Rebell (talk) 16:33, 12 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete - A biography with no references would be deleted as a BLP Prod if written now. Wholly unreferenced. Fails WP:GNG  Velella  ^{Velella Talk}   17:21, 12 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Poetry-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 18:04, 13 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Iraq-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 18:04, 13 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment I've added one reference from US Kurdish website Kurdish Aspect. Once again, the nominator's claim that this is a WP:Vanity page seems wholly unsupported by the editor history. What's worse, the nominator is harassing editors, such as myself, who voice opposition to such claims by issuing unwarranted "civility" warnings. There is nothing "uncivil" about opposing your nominations or pointing out that you began editing yesterday under this username with the apparent sole purpose of mass deleting Kurdish bio articles. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 20:59, 13 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. Thanks for constructively trying to improve the article. But this source, a website without editorial oversight, is not a reliable source that can establish notability. I have only given one mild civility warning, after being harassed. --Hassan Rebell (talk) 21:10, 13 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Searching under the alternate spelling of his name, as stated in the lead, we see bylined articles such as this, this, this. Whatever the current state of the article, I think we have enough here that he meets both WP:GNG and WP:AUTHOR, keeping in mind the difficulties in searching for non-English articles. Keep. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 21:21, 13 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Authors-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 21:23, 13 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

This person falls into the WP:AUTHOR policy. The person does not meet points 1), 2), or 3). This leaves 4), but I don't think that those 3 articles in news sites and blogs is sufficient for winning "significant critical attention", and unfortunately it is difficult to say what the articles actually say in English. --Hassan Rebell (talk) 21:53, 13 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

You've misunderstood: that's not what WP:AUTHOR means. It's simply a set of additional criteria, any of one which he may meet. He doesn't have to meet all of them, or even any of them, if he meets WP:GNG's more basic requirements. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 22:01, 13 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for clarifying. GNG still needs multiple reliable sources. Kulturname seems to be a blog, and diyarname a news blog. The only one of these source that could perhaps be reliable is Rudaw. --Hassan Rebell (talk) 22:20, 13 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure any of them are WP:BLOGS as we define them here. A "newsblog" that is not self-published is perfectly acceptable as a WP:RS as indeed many news publications are becoming web-only. I'm still satisfied he meets GNG and am more interested in hearing from uninvolved editors. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 22:25, 13 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The sites look like blogs but since they are not in English and googling the sites shows no other results, it's difficult to tell.

Actually, for biography articles, it is WP:BIO and WP:BASIC that is relevant, and WP:AUTHOR is the set of additional criteria. So we need significant coverage in multiple published[4] secondary sources that are reliable, intellectually independent of each other,[5] and independent of the subject.

IMO we have at most one published secondary source that is (relatively) reliable (the Kurdish news site "Rudaw"), and it is doubtful if the the depth of coverage is substantial or significant (but without English translation it's difficult to tell).

And the fact that on Amazon there is at most one book that is even unavailable by this writer doesn't help.--Hassan Rebell (talk) 22:53, 13 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment -- note that nominator has few edits besides listing numerous Kurdish academics for deletion; it looks like a WP:POINT or nationalist dispute. See Special:Contributions/Hassan_Rebell -- Michael Scott Cuthbert (talk) 18:26, 14 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep -- had time to look at the article now and Vekoler and other's comments ring true for me. WP:ANI has given permission for an early Keep close for any admin. -- Michael Scott Cuthbert (talk) 14:41, 16 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep. I am astounded how can anyone without having any in-depth knowledge regarding Kurdish literature, can decide what is notable in this area by a simple search. I agree that reliable sources have to be added in the article but that can not be used as an excuse to delete articles about famous Kurdish intellectuals and writers. Google search is not a good measure in this particular case because almost all their work is in Kurdish which is written in a different alphabet. I will do my best to add reliable sources like the one from Swedish Immigrant Institute that lists several Kurdish authors and their books[1]. For instance, check out the page for writer Zeynelabidîn Zinar[2].Vekoler (talk) 21:29, 14 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• — Note to closing admin: Vekoler (talk • contribs) is the creator of the page that is the subject of this XfD.

• Vekoler, problem is, this wiki is built on verifiability and reliable sources. He may well be every bit as notable as you claim, but the thing is, we do need WP:RS and I'm afraid those online web listings aren't enough. It's a particular problem with any non-English subject. So the goal is to see if there are articles about him in Kurdish media, any media. On the other hand, the mass nominator has now been blocked and there's a chance this whole raft of Afds may get closed speedily as disruptive -- I don't know. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 22:28, 14 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

You are right. Even though the IP has been blocked, there is still a problem with verifiability in English. I recognize that and I would like to apologize for the emotional outburst, it was totally uncalled for. I have to work harder on finding better sources.Vekoler (talk) 23:06, 14 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

No worries, and as I mentioned on your user talk page, also don't remove the Afd tags from articles yourself. I don't want to see YOU get blocked. ;-) And if some of these articles do get deleted, you should ask to have them WP:Userfyed if you want to keep working on them. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 23:17, 14 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. One can find articles from literary magazines about his work and poetry, but most are written in Sorani with Arabic-based alphabet. Google search must be done using Sorani version of his name [له‌تیف هه‌ڵمه‌ت] or Kurmanji version [Letîf Helmet]. I wil list a few articles here: Sufism in Latif Halmat's work, Latif Lifetime Achievement Award, Interview with Xelk Media, Regarding Latif Halmat's Statement in the Second Congress of Kurdish Writers, Erbil, 1971, Literary Seminar at University of Garmian. These two are in English Translation of one of his poems and Halmat's biography and translation of one of his poems , This one in Kurmanji (North Kurdish) by Khalil Duhoki Poet of the Dispossessed, An interview with Rudaw [3], Poet of Resistance: Latif Halmat. Vekoler (talk) 00:18, 15 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep - we're at a disadvantage in that Kurdish and Central Kurdish are not available via Google Translate. However, searches for the name brings up enough evidence of notability, such as his appearance in this hour-long Kurdish show[4]. This article should not be a victim of WP:SYSTEMICBIAS, especially given the apparent motives of the nominator. —Мандичка^YO 😜 22:54, 14 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• Note: Nom has been indeffed per WP:NOTHERE and has admitted ban evasion. —Мандичка^YO 😜 22:49, 14 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Unless I'm missing something, he hasn't admitted ban evasion, Wikimandia, and I don't think he did evade a ban. He had to change his username and did so improperly, is the problem. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 22:53, 14 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Oh I see. I thought Srednuas Lenoroc was blocked. I struck through. Still, I'm guessing SPI will not go his way. —Мандичка^YO 😜 23:01, 14 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

No he was blocked, but just because his username was almost identical to another editor's, whom he successfully claimed not to be. It's odd. The whole thing around this chap is so odd, fishy, and frankly creepy. I sure hope he stays blocked. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 23:04, 14 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, Wikimandia, keep in mind that for this crazy-ass affair, Senoroc Lrednuas is another editor entirely. We mean Lrednuas Senoroc. It's nuts. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 02:08, 15 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Shawn in Montreal: Right, I mistakenly thought Senoroc Lrednuas was blocked and Lrednuas Senoroc was its sock, which is why when he admitted to being Lrednuas Senoroc I thought it meant it he was admitting ban evading. Still I never believe the "I was just an innocent IP editor before" claim when new editors act like very experienced editors. They're invariably guilty of major sockpuppetrocities. —Мандичка^YO 😜 02:18, 15 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep Yes, Google Translate seems to be having trouble with the "Sorani with Arabic-based alphabet" thing, but from what I can glean, yes, we do seem to meet WP:GNG at very least. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 02:05, 15 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep - Per Vekoler and Мандичка. Btw, the nominator is blocked now.--Gomada (talk) 13:24, 16 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment Good argument has been made on the notability of the subject of this article but at the moment it has a single source and is a WP:COPYVIO of that source. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:52, 17 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep per meeting WP:GNG. Believe the language is confusing to (almost) everyone here. --MurderByDeletionism^"bang!" 04:55, 19 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.