The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Malcolmxl5 (talk) 20:16, 16 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Isaiah Richardson Jr.[edit]

Isaiah Richardson Jr. (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

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I am nominating this article per this discussion at the BLP Noticeboard. The subject of this article has stated a strong desire to have it deleted [1]. He did not create the article. The only coverage of him in reliable independent sources, concerns his street performances in New York City in 2012/2013. The four references in the article are all about what is basically one event, each covered from a slightly different angle. The subject fails WP:MUSICBIO in all other respects. Thus the notability is very marginal. The relevant guidelines here are WP:BLPREQUESTDELETE and WP:BLP1E. Note that from the outset of the article, the subject has been repeatedly blanking or vandalising it and will probably continue to do so throughout this AfD. This is a permalink to the stable version. Voceditenore (talk) 19:09, 9 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. /wiae /tlk 19:42, 9 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of New York-related deletion discussions. /wiae /tlk 19:42, 9 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete The New York Times article is part of the newspaper's "Character Study" series, which it describes as a "weekly column about the people who make New York City distinctive." Based on the description of the column and the types of articles in "Character Study", the NYT is going out to interview regular residents of New York. There's no requirement to be well-known or otherwise notable to have a "Character Study" article written, and in fact it seems only "regular" non-notable residents are ever interviewed. Outside of the few references, I can't find anything to establish notability and it would appear deleting the page would be the best course of action. Elaenia (talk) 21:59, 9 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Thank you, Elaenia, that's really useful to know. The NYT article seems to have sparked off the rest of the coverage. Voceditenore (talk) 06:55, 10 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete per WP:BLPREQUESTDELETE. Let me start, however, w/ Keep arguments: I disagree with Elaenia's characterization of the Character Study series as being about "regular non-notable" people and thus not counting as a RS mention; my reading of the series is that it features people that the NYT feels are "distinctive" and thus worthy of coverage even though they've not been covered yet -- they remind me of the subjects for the obituaries that they often run (inventor of kitty litter, etc.) but on living people: trying to establish notability in other fields. I also don't think that where the other sources got the idea to cover him is important (or knowable) -- if lots of people start covering a person even because of a mistake (oops; she didn't actually create Facebook -- but hey! she's super amazing in another field, let's write about her) then it's still coverage. Judgment: Is all of this enough for passing GNG or MUSICBIO? I believe it's just barely enough, and as AfD does (over time) establish precedent, I'd use this article to establish Keep. But it's certainly not a slam dunk keep, and in light of the subject's request not to have an article and the difficulty in keeping this article in decent shape, I think it's in the gray area where deletion is allowed. -- Michael Scott Cuthbert (talk) 14:05, 10 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete. In WP:MUSICBIO, only item #1 holds for the article, this is to weak in comparison to WP:BLPREQUESTDELETE. --Cyfal (talk) 15:36, 10 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
• Weak delete. I think enough non-trivial coverage is there to satisfy WP:GNG and a reasonable keep argument could be made. However, WP:BLPREQUESTDELETE should be considered and for that reason we should delete this article. Best.4meter4 (talk) 16:17, 10 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete per WP:BLPREQUESTDELETE given that notability is tenuous at best and per Elaenia's well-reasoned explanation above.--Jezebel's Ponyo^{bons mots} 16:39, 10 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment I think you all have misunderstood. The New York Times article was made possible because of fame already attained in December 2011 playing Taiwanese music in the subway with 200,000 views in 5 days. In order to search for that you need to be able to read and type Chinese. I can. But Im sure none of you can. All of this is before the New York Times. One in English though incomplete:

http://www.etaiwannews.com/etn/news_content.php?id=1920354

Taiwan yahoo: May 14, 2012 https://tw.news.yahoo.com/紐約台灣傳統週-美樂手奏國歌-011709374.html

Dec 21,2011 https://tw.news.yahoo.com/驚-紐約地鐵-中華民國國歌飄揚-023249998.html

Thus, that fed the lies the author used to create that entire story which is 90% lies excluding personal information like my name. To make matters worse, the video from it plays over and over again on Jet Blue Airlines and American Airlines. Quotes in the video were copied and pasted to falsify information. I want to make it clear that unlike what you wrote in discussion, NONE of the other articles have ANY relation to the New York Times article at all. New York Times is big so all of you keep referring to that article. Forget that article. That article IS the problem. Besides making a fool out of me, unlike the other articles it makes me look like a pure street musician. This is not the case. None of the writers EVER saw the New York Times article. They reached out to me because I have a million views on youtube and youku playing Taiwanese music, heavy news coverage, Taiwan Yahoo, World Journal, coverage at a festival with 20,000 Taiwanese people, sponsor a Taiwanese saxophone and so on. Videos of me playing Jewish music are viral here as well as in Israel. That is the reason they wrote about me and that is the reason the tone is completely different from the New York Times article. But the New York Times is popular. People continuing going to it. It is just the character study section. That writer had no business writing a story about me. Im a professional. My band Brown Rice Family is part of the Carnegie Hall professional music team: I can be seen at 00:25 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDeN_rgc2QE

Im trying to sue the writer now. My bands however, ARE famous. And the people I play with range from Kelly Price, Gregory Porter, to Monsieur Perine from Colombia that just won a grammy 2015 nominated 2016 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGL-eQAAxGs

If you all are stuck on this rather bland and cheesy character study thing by the New York Times and wont even consider discussing the other newspapers that have actual real stories and were purely written in response to internet fame, then deletion is the best course of action. I am a professional musician working here in New York and abroad. Constantly on tour playing at top venues and on the side for fun a few years ago I started playing some music outside. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mambojazz1 (talk • contribs) 18:32, 10 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Mambojazz1, can you please clarify? Are you now saying that you do not want the article deleted? Or are you saying that you only want the article kept on the condition that all mention of the New York Times article, including a link to it, is removed? If you are now saying that you no longer want the article deleted, then I will be happy to withdraw the nomination, because that nomination hinges on your previous request for deletion. However, be aware that you will not be able to dictate the contents of the article if it is kept. The content would be decided by a civil discussion and consensus between the various editors at Talk:Isaiah Richardson Jr. That discussion might well take into account some of the points you are making here, including the use of the NYT article, but it will not be decided either by you shouting at us or by you repeatedly vandalising the article. So what's it to be? Voceditenore (talk) 19:24, 10 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

No one is yelling. You cannot hear my voices. They are only words. Nothing has changed. Im only giving reasons why it needs to be deleted. The entire reason this page is here is because of the NYT article. I am 100% sure of that. That article is in the character study section instead of music. That section has articles about a man who walks around with 5 cats and an 86 year old man that runs everyday. The writer saw that searching my name only pulled up concert listings and recordings without any major articles IN ENGLISH anyway that were not about my groups. He used this to write his greatest article. Its all lies. And it does not warrant a wikipedia page. The problem is, I continue working and have various awards as my career grows and in the future I will have a wikipedia page. But it will not be based on "Global Anthems for the Saxophone". Completely insulting especially insulting as clarinet my main instrument not saxophone. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mambojazz1 (talk • contribs) 00:04, 11 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for clarifying that, Mambojazz1. We'll proceed with the discussion then. Voceditenore (talk) 06:46, 11 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete as I had also actually found this a few months ago and planned to nominate, this article is troubled because the user apparently claims the listed news sources were not accurate and such, and apparently attempted to restore a better article....but this is honestly best deleted because nothing is clearly comprehensible thus nothing for an article. SwisterTwister talk 05:24, 11 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete as WP:BLPREQUESTDELETE. Barely musters notability and the subject is disputing the content. If that person becomes more notable or covered by RS in the future, we can remake the page with that info. Until then, delete it (not quite nuke it, but pave it over). EvergreenFir (talk) Please {{re}} 05:26, 11 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Someone made an edit on the page saying that the subject came to the attention of the press through street performances of Taiwanese and Jewish music. Yet someone STILL uses Taipei Times and the New York Times. Why the New York Times instead of The Jewish Week? It makes absolutely no sense. The NYT article goes on and on about Japan. It says things that have nothing at all to do with music like "his girlfriend is a Japanese saxophonist from Japan...as well as members of the band he plays in Brown Rice Family". Basically, rather intelligent people become unintelligent in regards to that NYT article. The NYT article paints the picture of a hustler who can play any country's music. ALL of the other articles portray a serious artist who studied the languages, studied the music formally (Chinese music and Jewish music), and still plays on the street when he is free eventhough he plays on Broadway, is on HBO's Boardwalk Empire and Vinyl http://m.imdb.com/name/nm7926559/filmotype/actor?ref_=m_nmfm_1,plays at Jazz At Lincoln Center http://nyevents.us/new-york-billy-strayhorn-centennial-celebration-dizzys/244237, does music projects with Carnegie Hall teaching music to incarcerated inner city youth http://www.carnegiehall.org/m/event.aspx?id=4295015541.... And the person who made the edit used it even if it makes no sense at all. The NYT article is half a page. Every other article is mostly 2 to 3 pages with my picture on the front cover. The NYT article says, "....each day at the steps of the Metropolitan Museum". Jewish Week says, "One day when I was in Germany, I left the band...." NYT says, "Nothing works like playing what people know". The China Post article BEFORE the New York Times on May 14, 2012 says, "Richardson, who studied mandarin Chinese in New York before visiting China for seven months and Taiwan for four months, said he started performing in the subway two years ago and usually plays Taiwanese music when no Taiwanese people are around.". Someone is obviously lying. Either the cheap character study section that is usually for normal people that are not artist or every other article ever written. I would be satisfied if the NYT could be blocked from Wikipedia. That article is like poison. It causes people to ignore facts. Beyond HBO, broadway, WNYC championship, Carnegie Hall, Lincoln Center, Blue Note, BS TV Asahi, MTV, and other accolades I was just ON TOUR for christ sakes with a band that WON a 2015 Latin Grammy in October and was nominated last month for another grammy!!! But NYT covers it up!!!http://soundsandcolours.com/articles/colombia/monsieur-perine-perform-npr-tiny-desk-concert-announce-tour-31072/

Someone in the future will come by and make an edit that puts the New York Times article back in even if it doesnt logically make sense. This is the problem. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mambojazz1 (talk • contribs) 15:15, 13 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.