This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Thank you for copyediting "Rise to power". I'm having trouble with that section. --I'm an Editorofthewiki^{[citation needed]} 22:46, 29 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I created the category Category:Wikipedia in the news frequent administrators. As you have experience in ITN and ITN-related matters, I invite you to add your name there. The purpose is so if a non-admin (such as myself) needs an administrator to add, modify, or remove an item, you have experience in this area. Thanks, Spencer^T♦C 01:44, 30 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I'm glad this is locked up as well. At least the current entry gives some credit to the original movie rather. I'd rather this than have to undo everytime I see someone else blatantly vandalising the page almost every time the original source movie is mentioned. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zhanzhao (talk • contribs) 08:44, 30 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hey. I reviewed and promoted Flag of Tunisia to GA status. Congrats! Intothewoods29 (talk) 19:29, 30 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I've started the draft at User:Nishkid64/Philibert Tsiranana. It still has a long way to go looking at this. Go on Gtalk when you get the chance. « Milk's Favorite Cøøkie 19:56, 30 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I moved the content to the mainspace (that's how I like to operate). Boigny, Mba, and now this? Honestly, I want to help too. :) --I'm an Editorofthewiki^{[citation needed]} 22:05, 30 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

		The Cote d'Ivoire Barnstar
		I Blofeld the Bald award this to you for your outstanding effort at writing a full and highly resourceful article on an Ivorian subject and for your hard work on Africa in general. This is exactly the sort of content that I rave about and try to get onto wikipedia in parts of the world which should quite rightly be equally covered as America and Europe. What this article does is address the subject almost as if it was written from an Ivorian perspective looking out at the world as "America and Europe=other" rather than Africa always being "the other", something very rare on wikipedia. This is exactly what wikipedia should be striving to do across the world, being written as if it was from that place rather than an Anglophone perspective. I congratulate you for having been one of the first people to really achieve this on an African subject in such a detailed way. If only we could get all of the articles up to this standard. Congratulations! ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ $1,000,000? 12:44, 31 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You're welcome. It does however need a major copyedit which is understandable as it was translated from french. I have left my general view of what needs to be sorted at the peer review. I would recommend mergin some of the latter sections with the main body and moving his death section nearer the bottom. The in African politics in my view addressed many of the subjects which should be covered in the main body of the article rather than after his death. If you could find a way of merging some of them to give a highly comprehensive main section this would imrpove it considerably ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ ^$1,000,000? 13:11, 31 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Pls favor in keeping deletion/discussion page of Brhmaand Pujan , Naresh Sonee strictly confidential/un accesable as it is giving wrong signal to the seeker when it get hit on search engines.This has been requested by legal dept. of said pages. Under your expert guidence i may start this page soon. --Dralansun (talk) 03:14, 1 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You blocked me for a week, as a result of an “edit war” with your friend Blnguyen and the 15 time blocked meat puppeteer Mike18xx. Your justification was that I had reverted those reverts of my content 4 times (an issue that do not dispute on it’s face and for which I have now served my "punishment"). Nevertheless, my question here is in relation to why you also did not enforce a block (much less a warning) on Blnguyen - who reverted during the same “edit war”? 1, 2, 3 4 Times ... just as I did ???   Redthoreau (talk) RT 14:14, 1 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The July 2008 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.
This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 02:21, 3 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Its working now.-Bharatveer (talk) 05:47, 3 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Félix Houphouët-Boigny needs to be copyedited and peer reviewed. We would appreciate any and all help from the crack members of the FA-Team! Sign up here. Merci! Awadewit (talk) 12:13, 3 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

No worries. As a general rule, when you search the LOC images, if the preview has a blue border and you can click on it, it's probably free. (Not always though.) If it doesn't then it's nonfree. This is an easy first check. Calliopejen1 (talk) 03:34, 4 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, that collection is kind of tricky because some are PD and some aren't.[1] Calliopejen1 (talk) 03:38, 4 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you... ...for participating in my RfA, which closed with 119 in support, 4 neutral and 5 opposes. I'm honestly overwhelmed at the level of support that I've received from the community, and will do my best to maintain the trust placed in me. I 'm also thankful to those who opposed or expressed a neutral position, for providing clear rationales and superb feedback for me to build on. I've set up a space for you to provide any further feedback or thoughts, should you feel inclined to. However you voted, thanks for taking the time out to contribute to the process, it's much appreciated. Kind regards, Gazimoff 21:24, 4 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Our friend is back on his favourite BLP. Cheers, Mathsci (talk) 08:38, 5 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think you noticed that the first sentence of the lede of Michael Atiyah had been changed by me to reflect the source :-) Mathsci (talk) 12:47, 5 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Dear Nishkid64, thank you for your kind message. I have been deeply aware of my own incivility so that the arrival of your message was not unexpected. For reasons that may be evident, I do not feel that I can offer my apologies to User:MiS-Saath, however I am in truth deeply saddened that I have behaved towards User:MiS-Saath the way I have done (paradoxically perhaps, I do not regret my uncivil behaviour - for this, I am inspired by the King in Shakespeare's Hamlet who somewhere says: I must be cruel only to be kind). It may be useful to point out that User:MiS-Saath has been shown to be involved in very dubious activities on Wikipedia in the course of the past days, such as forum shopping (evidently, User:MiS-Saath cannot have been acting as a scholar, rather as an agent provocateur, or a hooligan --- as I have mentioned it elsewhere, it is highly dubious that a citizen of Israel should introduce herself as an "Arab editor"; in the latter link she writes: "Hello fellow arab editors" - I do not hesitate to bring up the Israeli citizenship of MiS-Saath, because as I have indicated elsewhere, I have personally a deep bond with the Jewish community). This amounts to cyber-warfare against Iran, especially given the fact that User:MiS-Saath has not proved able to justify any of her edits (she has proved unable to provide a single reliable reference in support of her persistent and destructive edits; in response to my repeated questions with regard to references, her only response had been that it was up to me to prove that she was wrong! Yours sincerely, --BF 03:16, 6 August 2008 (UTC).[reply]

I am honestly surprised and quite pleased with your expansion of Alexandre Banza. Thanks for the great work! Just as a side note, I think the lead is a little long and we could probably use an infobox, tasks I will get to work on. Again, great work!--Thomas.macmillan (talk) 21:50, 6 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Houphouet-Boigny is going to be on the main page under DYK?! --I'm an Editorofthewiki^{[citation needed]} 03:47, 7 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

No, I don't think we can bring that one to FA, but I do have it at GAN. What I've been thinking about is researching Aubame and Bongo for FAs. There is a good start with Aubame at the French Wikipedia, although more information is required. Bongo, however, is a mess, both here and there. I have been trying to pass List of heads of state of Gabon at FLC, but it keeps failing due to its length. --I'm an Editorofthewiki^{[citation needed]} 14:24, 6 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Exactly,. There's not enough to be written about it. --I'm an Editorofthewiki^{[citation needed]} 14:40, 6 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I just found a recent source from the New York Times, which I added to the article. --I'm an Editorofthewiki^{[citation needed]} 15:00, 6 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Do you think the article is FA quality yey? I on't think it can be expanded anymore. --I'm an Editorofthewiki^{[citation needed]} 00:36, 7 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Have you looked through the article and decided wheter or not it is of featured quality and comprehensiveness? --I'm an Editorofthewiki^{[citation needed]} 19:42, 7 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, I don't like giving out my e-mail online. Can you post them on my talk page? --I'm an Editorofthewiki^{[citation needed]} 20:21, 7 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Can you give me the url then? How did you find theme, anyway? My google news search throwed up very little, all of which I used in the article. --I'm an Editorofthewiki^{[citation needed]} 20:27, 7 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Darn. If I give you my e-mail address, how would you be able to give me the content of those newspapers if they are hidden behind a subscription? --I'm an Editorofthewiki^{[citation needed]} 21:26, 7 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Do you think I should submit this to FAC now? I have exhausted all your references. Thanks for them, anyway. --I'm an Editorofthewiki^{[citation needed]} 02:39, 8 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I see you're going directly for FAC on Alexandre Banza. I am thinking about doing the same for 1964 Gabon. I need a second opinion, though. --I'm an Editorofthewiki^{[citation needed]} 18:12, 8 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your comments. I have responded to all of them, and I am going to FAC. --I'm an Editorofthewiki^{[citation needed]} 20:23, 8 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hh, you're probably right. Though getting a grassroots/exploratory discussion started is how campaigns are born. Or maybe I've been watching too much MSNBC. Wizardman 19:51, 8 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hey there! Wikipedia Weekly Episode 59: An Interview with Sue Gardner at Wikimania 2008 has been released. You can listen and comment at the episode's page (at least one listener thought this could be the best interview ever), and as always, listen to all of the past episodes at wikipediaweekly.org. Peace. WODUPbot 01:05, 9 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You're receiving this because you're listed on Wikipedia:WikiProject WikipediaWeekly/delivery. If you'd like to stop receiving these messages, please remove yourself from that list.

Hey Nish. I'm dealing with a stubborn editor (user:Anwar saadat), who refuses to remove OR on Tamil Muslim despite third party opinion against it, and continues to revert, sometimes under the guise of fake edit summaries. Appreciate if you could look into it for me. Cheers. Trips (talk) 06:30, 9 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Greetings! You are receiving this message because you said you wanted to be reminded about future DC meetups on Wikipedia:Meetup/DC_4. We are planning the next DC meetup in late August/early September at Wikipedia:Meetup/DC_5, and would love to have your input. Staeiou (talk) 15:21, 9 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Mathsci (talk) 16:50, 10 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

On 11 August, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Alexandre Banza, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--PFHLai (talk) 00:13, 11 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"Lucky break"? Do you honestly think I care that much about a block? The point is that a (quite small) number of users have put a stranglehold on the particular article. It's a story that has repeated itself in the past, as is quite obvious by taking a look at the page and editing history: users push for a more neutral version, other users of a specific nationality (maintain good faith? not sure I can, in this case) object and abuse every single wiki policy to maintain their preferred version. The former group of users get fed up and leave. Talks of supposed "ongoing discussion" (aka keeping our preferred version for as much as possible) are quite meaningless considering the strength of the presented arguments.

But no matter, an admin chiming in with "lucky breaks" and protecting the page to prevent "edit-warring" (obviously 2 people get more "reverts" so it's perfectly fine of them no matter what) is quite a "fuck-off" gesture to the editor in question. 3rdAlcove (talk) 16:34, 11 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Endorse. Please have a closer look at the editing history and the talk page, Nishkid. It's WP:RS vs. WP:IDONTLIKEIT -- Ankimai (talk) 21:59, 11 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

According to my records, you have nominated at least one article (1880 Republican National Convention, Lee Smith, 2003 Chicago balcony collapse, & Abram Lincoln Harris) that includes a category at WP:CHIBOTCATS and that has been promoted to WP:FA, WP:FL or WP:GA. You are not signed up as an active member of WP:CHICAGO. If you consider yourself either an active or semi-active member of the project please sign up as such at Wikipedia:WikiProject Chicago/members. Also, if you are a member, be aware of Wikipedia:Meetup/Chicago 3 and be advised that the project is now trying to keep all the project's WP:PR, WP:FAC, WP:FAR, WP:GAR, WP:GAC WP:FLC, WP:FLRC, WP:FTC, WP:FPOC, WP:FPC, and WP:AFD discussion pages in one location at the new Wikipedia:WikiProject Chicago/Review page. Please help add any discussion you are aware of at this location.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 19:16, 11 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I know politics is your specialty, but...

I've taken this article from this to this, in preps for filing it for FAC. I could you some help now with:

1. finding a free image of Hanna
2. some good copyediting
3. expanding the lead

and when that's done I'll unlink the repetitive links (things can change during ce, so I don't want to do now), then file for FAC.

Any help is greatly appreciated. — Rlevse • Talk • 02:47, 13 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I don't follow every single little change in the MOS, and I could honestly care less about the date links. I like them. Let them stay. --I'm an Editorofthewiki^{[citation needed]} 15:33, 13 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I guess so. It's really pretty minor anyway. --I'm an Editorofthewiki^{[citation needed]} 15:37, 13 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hiya, just wanted to let you know about this page, which is an outgrowth of our discussions at the Working Group wiki. Since you were involved with the development of the definitions there, I wanted to invite you to the new page here on EN, in case you'd like to participate with its development. --Elonka 17:03, 13 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You recently blocked User:Discourseur and two identified sockpuppets; you also semi-protected two pages on which that editor was active recently: Two Treatises of Government and Leviathan (book). Within hours of your issuing these blocks, User:Worldwidejeb went to those same pages and pursued the same edits, the first this user has ever made (except to his user and user talk pages). Should I open a new Checkuser request for this, append it to the old one, or something else? If this is Discourseur and this account was created on August 6 precisely to evade blocks, I doubt that this is the only "sleeper" he has prepared. RJC ^{Talk Contribs} 20:11, 13 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Greetings! You are invited to attend the second annual New York picnic on August 24! This year, it will be taking place in the Long Meadow of Prospect Park in Brooklyn. If you plan on coming, please sign up and be sure to bring something! Please be sure to come!
You have received this automated delivery because your name was on the invite list. BrownBot (talk) 20:24, 13 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Funny but as I received your message I was reviewing an Africa article for FA. If you want me to present to you the official documentation that the image was published earlier than the the 1950s then I can't prove it to you. Judging by the photograph it looks to me to be far more likely from the late 1930s or early 1940s. If you want to question it then I would suggest I replace it with a fair use rationale "just in case". But just the style of the hair and moustache looks very WWII era to me -looks 1935-1945. I don;t of course know when it was "published" officially. ♦ Dr. Blofeld ♦ ^"Talk"? 20:38, 13 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. ♦ Dr. Blofeld ♦ ^"Talk"? 20:43, 13 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hi. Thanks for looking into discourseur. Could I draw your attention to Commonwealth, which is suffering related problems? I'm fairly sure 77.114.128.177, etc etc are all him too; and are repeating the same tendentious edit, with the same pattern on the talk page William M. Connolley (talk) 23:31, 13 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hey, remember that anon you reverted at Albert Wass? He's currently evading his block... Khoikhoi 07:06, 14 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hi. I've started a full set of templates for each of the African economies at Wikipedia:WikiProject Africa/Economy templates. Basically I see them as a good instrastructure to develop each of the economies on wikipedia. It gives us the chance to link case studies on many of the main exports/industries in the country was is very important as a vast proportion of the population is often involved in such industries. See for example Pineapple production in Côte d'Ivoire and how the template is used. Any help you can give on building up the templates with potential articles related to the economy, distributing the templates in the articles linked or filling in the red links for be much appreciated! For instance Template:Economy of Ghana has some notable content already but potentially these templates can be crammed full with articles related to the economy by African country. Regards ♦ Dr. Blofeld ♦ ^"Talk"? 16:18, 14 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hello! Wikipedia Weekly Episode 60: Diplopedia has been released. You can listen and comment at the episode's page, and as always, listen to all of the past episodes at wikipediaweekly.org. WODUPbot 05:12, 15 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You're receiving this because you're listed on Wikipedia:WikiProject WikipediaWeekly/delivery. If you'd like to stop receiving these messages, please remove yourself from that list.

Let this be our day for great decisions. --BobClive (talk) 05:58, 15 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

See William_Hanna, someone broke the awards into a list. Do you think this is better? If we leave it like this, each award will need at least one ref. Reply on Hanna talk. — Rlevse • Talk • 09:45, 15 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Nish,

Unfortunately the blocked editor User:Anwar saadat is doing some reverts in a featured candidate article using an anon account. He is being involved with edit warring with another Anon account in the same article about adding Islam as a religion followed by the Sri Lankan Tamil people. It is not supported by any reliable sources. When I revered his edit he complaints that I am the sock of the Anon account here . Just want this guy to calm down and respect people and wikipedia requirements.Taprobanus (talk) 14:50, 15 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, I'm requesting unprotection of Wikipedia:Civility. It appears that only one user, User:Shoemaker's Holiday has performed reverts on the page (three in the past three days), while others were trying out reasonable changes to the page, via the mechanism of WP:BRD. I've made this request at WP:RFPP as well as here to expedite the matter; I hope you do not take offense at my eagerness to see what had been a constructive editing and discussion cycle resume as soon as possible.--Father Goose (talk) 02:27, 16 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Three reverts across three days by one user does not an edit war make. There was discussion of changes on the talk page, followed by trial changes, followed by reverts because one user still had reservations (this is all perfectly acceptable and constructive), followed by your block. There's no way to show further evidence of developing progress because the page is now uneditable.--Father Goose (talk) 18:41, 16 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia talk:Requests for arbitration/C68-FM-SV/Proposed decision is (351,699 bytes), and all very distracting, not to mention finalised, given that the new developments necessitate a final go-around. How about archiving all of this now except for the last section, ready for something final and sensible. Suggestion only, cheers. /NewbyG (talk) 08:11, 17 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Please can you revert and lock for sometime the editing of Himarë article as 24.185.86.249 and Taulant23 are repeatedly altering and deleting the article from 12 August and on?I can not do this myself because they have altered the whole article without any reliable references and deleting everything regarding the history of the region including reliable references.Knonis —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.38.10.137 (talk) 11:55, 17 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Where were you when I explained the situation to you? And ok, don't trust a single word but at least take a look at the matter. No, I can't be civil to POV-pushing wiki-stalkers; especially when the supposed "incivility" perfectly explains their edits. 3rdAlcove (talk) 18:11, 17 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Well, let's see. They follow my (unrelated) edits around and revert if they feel they are somehow not to their liking. They hold an entire article hostage. Is a block (that's how they and related users have managed to keep their POV in every article they edit -policy abuse) worth it if the particular article presents NPOV and if the particular users cut it out? I think so. Hey, at least I get to vent and not put up with their utter bullshit. I don't use wiki to deal with these types but rather make a small edit here and there. If their behavior is considered "civil", I guess I'll have to deal with the blocks on my own. So, yes, I'd rather you stopped warning me and simply block me (or let others block me) if I've somehow crossed the line. 3rdAlcove (talk) 18:35, 17 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hey and thanks for your comment on the FAC page. I have, in an attempt to make the page more readable, capped your comment. Do you have any concerns about that ? Thanks Watchdogb (talk) 21:56, 17 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The following edits were made by an editor to the article after I finished writing it. They obviously are uninformed but I would like to avoid confrontation. When someone says " I see that Indian jingoism has caught up with this article" then its difficult to assume good faith.[2]

What should I do? Every single one of those edits is unsourced and may represent a political pogrom.

JSR (talk) 15:02, 17 August 2008 (UTC) (formerly user:South Block)[reply]

When someone speaks "rm paragraph that has *nothing* to do with cartography except for the excerpt "no maps were found". Of course cultures without cartography have a sense of space, doh" and then just deletes Susan Gole then I begin to lose faith in Wikipedia.

Susan Gole is a peer-reviewed, well respected, and very well published authority on Indian cartography and she doesn't have any affiliations with Hindutva people. When someone replaces her with unsourced statements based on personal experience on Wikipedia then that is simply not done. I went to great lengths to find reliable sources on that subject and I'm just coming to grips that all it takes is an attitude and bold deletion to do away with anything that others do.

I'll be calm and civil like you said. I have my doubts that this pogrom is about to end. Meanwhile I'll try and rewrite Indian maritime history (I'll ask for your suggestions on that one once I finish editing with my first draft).

Regards, JSR (talk) 19:04, 17 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

If you find time the please take a look at Indian maritime history and suggest improvements on the talk page. JSR (talk) 22:33, 17 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I also rewrote Science and technology in the Republic of India. Any suggestions on the talk talk page if/when you find time would be appreciated. JSR (talk) 21:56, 18 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

No I had not; I will work on those concerns. I disagree with his assessment of the prose, but I am more of a content adder than a copyeditor. However, I wonder if we do have a chance at FAC. --I'm an Editorofthewiki^{[citation needed]} 19:43, 18 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The next update is ready if you could do the honours? — Dan1980 (talk ♦ stalk) 22:55, 18 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps you have the secret code to help Editor understand the issue at Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/1964 Gabon coup d'état? Let me know if you want me to manually fix that one citation; I'm not sure he's understanding the issues. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 00:22, 19 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't; sorry about that. Good job settling the dashes issue, by the way. It always bothers me to see how half this FAC was based on a few tiny dashes when most of the articles here are crap. Anyway, could you please vjoin the discussion at Template talk:Citation#Merging? --I'm an Editorofthewiki^{[citation needed]} 01:08, 19 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hello. Could you look into the matter again? The specific user is undoing my changes again, although I have explained every single change on the talk page, and did refrain in turn from undoing his edits. Gun Powder Ma (talk) 18:30, 19 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, actually I believe I had explained to this guy over the talks page on List of Chinese inventions already. Thanks. Anpersonalaccount (talk) 18:33, 19 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I do not think so that you did. I have no problem that you happily disagree with my sources, but you should do so by giving sources yourself and not merely undoing my edits and removing my tags, which are actually an offer to discuss these matters in-depth. Gun Powder Ma (talk) 18:39, 19 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, Nishkid64. But I want to stress once and for all that I did not do a single revert today. What does Wiki say about cases where one users does not partout allow another to make edits? How should I behave? Gun Powder Ma (talk) 18:55, 19 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hello Gun Powder Ma, actually I did, and you posted your reply already! I am not disagreeing your sources, in fact all these sources you provided are in the article! I only thing I seen, is that contemporary invention in elsewhere really doesn't needs to be mentions there with exception for like rudder. Anpersonalaccount (talk) 18:43, 19 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Reasons, you always forget to give your reasons, you just say that you think so and thereby disrupt other editors' changes who back up their edits. You are strongly in the realm of WP:own, Anpersonalaccount: You do not allow others to make changes to the article. How can I persuade you, when you, for example, refute half a dozen scientific sources which say A. that the Greek crossbow was also hand-held and b. that is was probably invented prior to 421 BC? To show your constructve stance you could reinsert the template, Anpersonalaccount. Gun Powder Ma (talk) 18:55, 19 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Gun Powder Ma, I do not dispute your sources, you could check over the article actually, the sources you provided are there! I am suggesting that contemporary invention in elsewhere really doesn't needs to be mentions over the article, because they have their each respective articles like you said. Anpersonalaccount (talk) 19:00, 19 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Why? The second sentence fully claims that "The list below contains these and other inventions which first appeared in China". Why should contemporaneous evidence not be relevant in that context? This is a strange concept of "first" you have.... Gun Powder Ma (talk) 19:05, 19 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Because we're focusing on Chinese inventions in the article! Not contemporary inventions elsewhere at all. Anpersonalaccount (talk) 19:09, 19 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Wrong. Unfortunately you do not:

• line 2: "The list below contains these and other inventions which first appeared in China."
• line below "shang and later": "Inventions which made their first appearance in China after the Neolithic age, specifically during and after the Shang Dynasty (c. 1600 – c. 1050 BC), are listed in alphabetical order below." Do you really belive anybody would care about that list, if it were not for that monstruous claim? Gun Powder Ma (talk) 19:30, 19 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hello Gun Powder Ma, should we bring this discussion over the talk page? Thanks Anpersonalaccount (talk) 19:39, 19 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I thought I would chime in since I've been following this page for a while. Gun Powder Ma has consistently made disruptive edits to the article, deleting wholesale entries without seeking consensus and making conclusions on grounds of OR. 76.71.45.140 (talk) 02:22, 20 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I've listed William Hanna at PR and GAC. Keep our fingers crossed. If you have ideas to help more, esp improve the lead, have at it. Thanks for all past and future help. — Rlevse • Talk • 01:47, 20 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]