Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch

Reviewer: Thebiguglyalien (talk · contribs) 15:33, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I'll have a review posted for this within the next day or two. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 15:33, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Chchcheckit, this article looks really good. There's nothing too major to fix here. I've posted the review below. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 03:30, 16 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hey, thanks for taking the time out, and thanks for the feedback!!! yay.

Here's a quasi-checklist of things ive done on the back of your feedback

General notes:

• tried reducing the amount of times i use the album title
• several "would" 's removed and tenses rejigged

Lead:

• rejigged the lead to put the "holy roar" thing on the back of second para and some tweaks

Music, writing and recording:

• This section jumps back and forth, starting immediately with detailed information about its style. Best practice is usually to go chronologically, starting with the background and events leading up to the album's production, then the production itself, and then the musical style and the meanings of the songs. It's not a rule, but it helps with the flow. – Admittedly, I did attempt that but there was not enough to really warrant it besides another heading. I'll at least admit that i used the Toxicity article (which is also a good article) as a base for the formatting here, to try and make it "concise" as possible without overdoing it with headings. I also feel that it is appropriate here, in terms of how the circumstances surrounding the writing process had a direct impact on the nature of the album itself
• Phelan noted that he and Cherry were on "at opposite ends of the spectrum" during the album's writing process – Have redone, clarified.
• the victim of the relationship – changed to "the abused". Yeahhhh i agreed
• not interviewing any women at all – "at all" removed
• redid "Silent Restraint"
• redid "currency" and "wearing"

Title and artwork: fixed.

Release: fixed. Church Road also put out releases that were supposed to be issues through Holy Roar before it was closed, such as palm reader respire and wowod (alexander 2021)

Critical reception:

• I have attempted this again.

Verifiable with no original research

Spot checks:

• Mills (2022) – staggered the citations where applicable
• Metal Injection (2020): Used the wrong citation for "clickbait", fixed
• Hayduke X (2020): redid, fixed

Broad in its coverage

• Could not find any source regarding the meaning of "Throw Your Heart Away", wierdly enough
• Alex Heffernan removed from lead, still mentioned in release

Okay, cool.

--- Chchcheckit (talk) 11:25, 16 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I've made one more change: Alex Heffernan is still in the lead, so I moved it down a sentence. The second sentence is usually better used for giving context to the first sentence. Feel free to move, alter, or delete the sentence as you feel necessary. With that, I'll mark this as a good article. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 15:38, 16 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Well-written

General notes:

• The album's name is used a lot in this article. The reader knows what album they're reading about, so I suggest replacing uses of When I Die, Will I Get Better? with "the album". The title probably doesn't need to be used more than once per paragraph, if not one use per section.
• Check uses of "would" to see if past tense can be used. For example, "would ultimately be released" isn't as concise as "was ultimately released".

Lead:

• I suggest switching the first and second paragraph of the lead (besides the first sentence of course). That way, it will start by describing what type of album it is, and then the next paragraph will go into production details.

Music, writing and recording:

• This section jumps back and forth, starting immediately with detailed information about its style. Best practice is usually to go chronologically, starting with the background and events leading up to the album's production, then the production itself, and then the musical style and the meanings of the songs. It's not a rule, but it helps with the flow.
• Phelan noted that he and Cherry were on "at opposite ends of the spectrum" during the album's writing process – Clarify. It follow this by describing her mental illness and the abusive relationship, but the article doesn't really contrast this with Phelan in any way.
• the victim of the relationship – I'm not sure about this wording. Would "the victim of the abuse" or just "the abused" work?
• not interviewing any women at all – "at all" can be lost without changing the meaning
• It's not ideal to have the entire description of "Silent Restraint" be a quote. It's certainly not a simple idea, but is there any chance that this can be paraphrased?
• "The Currency Of Beauty" and "What Was She Wearing" both – Really minor, but this is the only instance where the songs aren't in the order of the track listing.

Title and artwork:

• This section is almost entirely made up of quotes, with very little encyclopedic prose.

Release:

• The subheading can just say "Holy Roar Records". "Controversy" gets into editorializing.
• which turned itself into a proper record label – Is it a "proper record label" as opposed to an informal record label, or did it simply convert from a distribution label to a record label (in which case "proper" can be lost)? Did it become a record label specifically for this album?

Critical reception:

• This section largely follows the pattern of "Critic said [quote]." I often recommend WP:RECEPTION for suggestions on how to make the section more readable and less quote-dependent.

Verifiable with no original research

All sources appear to be reliable. Mixed reliability source MetalSucks is acceptable as it is only used for release dates.

Spot checks:

• Mills (2022) – Good, though it seems that only the other source supports 70 to 75 shows.
• Morton (2020) – Good.
• Metal Injection (2020):
  • Statements about a living person's mental health or experiences of abuse require careful sourcing, and it's not clear which source supports which claim here. This might be a case where it's better to make it very clear, whether by putting the citations at the end of the relevant words or by WP:BUNDLING citations. With that said, there are no hard and fast rules on this.
  • This source talks about the general meaning of "Click Bait", but does it mention the Metal Hammer article?
• Hayduke X (2020):
  • Does this source support that Cherry met her partner at the end of the writing process?
  • This is put at the end of a quote, but the quote isn't in this source. Citations for quotes are a little more strict, so maybe move some of the citations to the previous sentence so it's clear which one supports the quote.
  • The source says that It made sense to delay it, but I don't see it specifying whether it was actually delayed or not.

Broad in its coverage

This article has all of the main aspects that would be expected of an album article. I'm assuming you checked, but it's worth asking anyway: is there any information at all about the meaning of "Throw Your Heart Away"?

The departure of Alex Heffernan seems to go off topic from this album. This paragraph might fit better at the Svalbard (band) article.

Neutral

No ideas are given undue weight. The article does not praise or criticize the album directly or indirectly.

Stable

No recent disputes.

Illustrated

Only one image, which has a non-free use rationale.