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What about cops inefficiency and involvements. Reports showing that they could have stopped this before it could have started rather helped the pro-CAA and right wings 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. Dey subrata (talk) 19:59, 25 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

We must not use twitter. Telegraph, Scroll is fine. Verification result of Altnews can be added --⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 20:04, 25 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I have added twitter link of journalist reporting from site, that thread is of Reuters' journalist. Dey subrata (talk) 20:22, 25 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Dey subrata, I do understand but the twitter feed is raw and has not undergone uditorial oversight. hence unfit. ⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 20:53, 25 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Ok lets wait for media articles on the same. Dey subrata (talk) 20:56, 25 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I have removed a para which uses tweets as source. Let's wait out for more info. —Sarvatra (talk, contribs) 22:11, 25 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The removed materials are restored, second part of the discussion is about the police involvement, not the journos thing. However, police involvement articles and video reporting by prime times of channels already been published, will be added soon by evening. Dey subrata (talk) 01:53, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

DBigXray tag for archiving. I am just in awe seeing number of edit requests and their raw comments of name calling, how much people are brainwashed. Dey subrata (talk) 18:18, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Ignorance by police

can we add a new section we can add the role of Police all pro and cons. In some cases they can be seen they are with rioters and targeting victims. Also they were ignoring SOS calls. few refs ^[1][2][3] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rashid Jorvee (talk • contribs) 06:51, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Rashid Jorvee, We have to follow WP:NPOV and WP:DUE. Please present the proposed draft here on talk page first, to get consensus. --⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 06:56, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

DBigXray Sure, let me draft somthing. thank you. Rashid Jorvee (talk) 07:13, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Rashid Jorvee, yes, this would be quite a significant addition, please draft something for review. SerTanmay (talk) 18:05, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Rashid Jorvee Check the above mentioned links. It will help you to build the section. Dey subrata (talk) 04:17, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Need to add a paragraph on this. [1] [2] [3] [4] —Sarvatra (talk, contribs) 21:24, 25 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

In section "Incidents on 24 February" the line Ratan Lal had received head injuries from a stone thrown at him in Gokulpuri. was initial report. But per autopsy report, Constable Ratan Lal died of a bullet injury.[5] —Sarvatra (talk, contribs) 21:24, 25 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Sarvatra I have included the autopsy report. No RS says the man named Sharukh had killed the cop, so it would be wrong to say that in the article.

ABP says the pistol holding man was in Jafrabad, while Lal died in Gokulpuri. So clearly they are separate incidents.--⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 21:46, 25 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah those two were separate things, I should have written them in different sections. —Sarvatra (talk, contribs) 21:49, 25 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Sarvatra, another point is wP:DUE. According to doctors treating the injured more than half were bullet wounds. So clearly there are more than one man shooting around. It is obvious why Media houses are putting too much spotlight on one Muslim guy, I am sure he would have been totally ignored had he not been Muslim. In anycase I am trying to say that the fact that a few media houses are giving him a disproportionate amount of coverage, does not mean Wikipedia must do the same. You can refer to international media and how they are covering the incident. ⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 21:54, 25 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I didn't mean it at all that the arrested man shot the police constable. Like I said, I should have written both the things in different sections, didn't do so in hurry. —Sarvatra (talk, contribs) 22:08, 25 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

As far as It is obvious why Media houses ..... had he not been Muslim is concerned, I prefer to not add my own opinion or analysis to the article I edit. —Sarvatra (talk, contribs) 22:08, 25 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Sarvatra, I was responding to your first line, that "need to add a paragraph on this". The article must follow WP:NPOV. ⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 22:11, 25 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done discussion resumed in the next section. Dey subrata (talk) 03:39, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

In the afternoon, a shooter fired eight rounds of bullets indiscriminately and also pointed his pistol at a cop who was trying to confront him. Per altnews, the man was a part of anti-CAA mob and initially was mistaken to be a part of pro-CAA crowd.^[1][2] The shooter was later identified by the police was arrested next day after an FIR was registered against him.^[3][4][5]

@DBigXray: I have undone your edit. Multiple sources, including NDTV, have reported his arrest. —Sarvatra (talk, contribs) 09:07, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

And I have moved it here on the talk page. Please do not WP:EW over this. This is a content dispute and it needs to be discussed for wP:CONSENSUS. Please respond to the issues I raised in the section above. --⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 09:15, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Your concerns were about man shooting the police constable are already taken care of. In my edit, it is clear that "man pointed gun at policeman", and NOT that "it was him who shot the policeman". This is backed up by the sources added. Anything else? —Sarvatra (talk, contribs) 09:20, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Sarvatra, yes, why is this unknown man being singled out with complete disregard to wP:BLPNAME ⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 09:27, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

He's the only person among all protesters (pro or anti-CAA) who had a gun, and pointed at a police constable, and fired shots using the gun. The name can be dropped. —Sarvatra (talk, contribs) 09:35, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Sarvatra, "He's the only person who had a gun" wow, thats a big claim. source please. ⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 09:47, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Per reports so far, yes. You have any source for other people brandishing guns at policemen and shooting? —Sarvatra (talk, contribs) 09:51, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

No, it is you who is claiming he is special and deserves a mention in a para. Based on 50% bullet wounds, many were carrying guns and I dont consider him worthy enough of a mention. I would rather cover the deaths and the arson . ⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 09:54, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"I dont consider him worthy enough of a mention" - So basically anything you believe should be there is what is being mentioned. Does that now create a bias towards what you only believe is necessary? [Times of India], ABP News have considered this to be important to dispel the fake news that is spreading around. It is imperative that a section of this man should also be included. --Datta (talk) 11:56, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

And a man firing shots illegally in front of the police is not relevant? Similar incidents of shooting were also covered in other article about anti-CAA protests. —Sarvatra (talk, contribs) 10:03, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@DBigXray i think the issue here is there is an identifiable perpetrator.The person confronted the police officer,shoved him and shot the bullets into the air perhaps as an act of intimidation.There was no reported injuries to the police officer however.User:UrbanCentrist

Yes, I am totally aware of what he did. Perpetrator of what exactly ? The problem here is, he is of no encyclopedic value to Wikipedia. had he been a brutal murderer for a few people, he probably could have found a mention here. But that is not the case, for now. ⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 15:40, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@DBigXray The incident can be interpreted that it represents a single identifiable point of escalation of violence.I think when someone reads this article it would be useful information to understand that the event included an armed gunman confronting a police officer — Preceding unsigned comment added by UrbanCentrist (talk • contribs) 16:10, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Please WP:SIGN and WP:INDENT your posts. Interepreted as such by whom ? If an WP:RS says that then we can probably add that. As of now this is of no useful value. Here is a question. Do you think that a gunman confronting a cop is more useful or a cop shot dead ? I would say the latter. regards. ⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 16:13, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Quoting the India Today article "as tension continued to simmer in Delhi's Jaffrabad and Maujpur areas a day after clashes, a youth opened fire on the streets on Monday afternoon in the same area while the police tried to control him.A man was seen pointing his country-made pistol at the police personnel on the Jaffrabad-Maujpur road. The man fired 8 rounds before the police overpowered him. He was later identified as Shahrukh, a local." I think a cop being shot dead and gunman confronting a cop are both useful information.With regards to the confrontation it was an observable incident where as the dead shot cop was hidden in the fog of violence.Since a timeline is mentioned it would be useful to provide that information as it was a unique circumstance. — Preceding unsigned comment added by UrbanCentrist (talk • contribs) 17:07, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

DBigXray I have added this one previously seeing the coverage by all prominent media, and also taking care of the WP:NEUTRAL and WP:NOTE polices for which name was not added. Someone might have added something else after my edits last night, for which the discussion is here now. My line was "In the afternoon, a shooter fired eight rounds of bullets indiscriminately and also pointed his pistol at a cop who was trying to confront him. The shooter was later identified and was detained and questioned about his intentions." Dey subrata (talk) 19:24, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Dey subrata, and UrbanCentrist please look at the big picture 25 dead and more than 200 injured. And here we are bickering about a guy who waved his gun and fired in the air (didn;t even kill or injure any one). I suggest we focus on other major points that need to be added. I really appreciate UrbanCentrist, patiently discussing this with me, unfortunately I am still not convinced if we should add it. Let me ask, are foreign media, Reuters, BBC covering this ? ⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 19:29, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

No I am just saying that was my line, and if it could be added, secondly, I am also waiting for police to release any statement on identification of shooters in several incidents, then can be added I think. We can wait. Dey subrata (talk) 19:36, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yes i think it is preferable to wait.Should the other shooters be identified it would be not as important to cover this.--UrbanCentrist (talk) 02:50, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hope the fact of foreign media coverage is not used as a measuring stick to edit the document and add facts. Foreign media is not free from biased reporting just as Indian media is not free from biased reporting. They are not a yardstick by any means. Also if Shahrukh the shooter has done nothing wrong then why was he arrested? He used an illegal country made weapon, brandished it and used it to threaten a police officer. All of the above mentioned are offences under Indian law.

User:QEDK can you help in expanding the lead to cover the article. The lead doesn't include anything about the violence. --⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 21:48, 25 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Sure, why not! --qedk (t 桜 c) 21:48, 25 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

User:DBigXray With reference to the 1984 anti-Sikh riots and 2002 Gujarat Riots articles, is it really necessary to include the "Lead Figures" section in this article? Aswin8 (talk) 13:34, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The Delhi High Court has asked the Police to file cases against them for hate speech that caused the violence. ⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 14:24, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

And just like in the above mentioned two articles, can that matter not be mentioned in the main body of the article, rather than in a half-filled section of "Lead Figures"? Aswin8 (talk) 17:33, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The other articles are different from this one. Here a protest was going on. And a leader brought his supporters to get engaged. Secondly, the other names mentioned who delivred hate speech which is now being asked by court to take actions. So appropriate enough to put it. Dey subrata (talk) 03:04, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

2409:4042:2087:1AFA:0:0:1756:48A4 (talk) 05:06, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Kapil Mishra has not been proved Guilty, so Don't make him a Scapegoat for your Anti Hindu Hatred.

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. The article nowhere states that he is guilty. What are you taking about. ⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 05:08, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Addition of information regarding anti caa protestors starting the violence AaRonBran (talk) 08:57, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Please provide reliable sources for this claim. --⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 18:59, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Rioters killed Rahul Solanki in cold blood after muslim mobs attacked hindu houses. Muslim mob killed Vinod a resident of Brahmapuri street number 01 in cold blood by lynching him in front of his son. https://www.jagran.com/delhi/new-delhi-city-ncr-delhi-violence-know-about-rahul-solanki-who-killed-in-caa-protest-20064151.html

Mohd Shahrukh was arrested for firing 8 rounds on police personnel after his gun wielding video clip and pics went viral. 2409:4053:228B:3EA4:26E8:916:629B:A243 (talk) 05:52, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Also follow WP:NPOV ⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 05:58, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@DBigXray

i couldn't find anything regarding the perpetrators of the attack on Rahul Solanki

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-51612461

https://www.bbc.com/hindi/india-51625723

https://www.opindia.com/2020/02/delhi-anti-caa-violence-muslim-mob-jaffrabad-maujpur-chandbagh-police-murder-stone-pelting/

the only source for the second claim is a right wing newspaper — Preceding unsigned comment added by UrbanCentrist (talk • contribs) 14:02, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

UrbanCentrist, if the reliable sources are not saying something then Wikipedia cannot add that. The link does not support the claims the IP user is making, so we cannot possibly accept them. ⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 14:22, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@DBigXray i simply wanted to expand on the discussion so that someone else could explore it in detail — Preceding unsigned comment added by UrbanCentrist (talk • contribs) 14:55, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The article in its current form has a lot of details other than the provocative statements by Kapil Mishra. His photo just takes most of the focus away from all those details, as if he's the most important part of the entire article. I say his picture should be removed. Discuss if disagree. —Sarvatra (talk, contribs) 06:27, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Sarvatra, He is the central figure in this riot. He has to be mentioned and hence his pic is relevant. I have reverted the removal. I will add more quotes from Mishra. ⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 06:34, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I am suggesting only to remove his picture, not any other content, as pictures grab focus. Makes the article look like more about him than anything else. —Sarvatra (talk, contribs) 06:46, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Sarvatra, I am against this proposal for reasons above. ⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 06:48, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Sarvatra, DBigXray Probably the picture of the person, who is arrested for shooting the policeman, is more appropriate to show the sense of riots? Secondly why the incident is swept under the carpet in this article? —staryash (talk, contribs) 05:16, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

What relevance does Amit Shah's photo have to the article? M4DU7 (talk) 09:41, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

M4DU7, he is calling the shots. ⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 09:46, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Can you explain what you mean by "calling the shots" and why his picture is needed? M4DU7 (talk) 09:55, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Home Minister is the in-charge of Law and order in Delhi. He controls Delhi Police and all the central paramilitary fources like RAF, CRPF, etc. All the law and order meetings are being held under his chairmanship. Hence all the responsibility for allowing this riot to spread and the deaths directly falls on him. This is exacly the reason wby opposition parties are asking for his head.⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 09:58, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

What the opposition asks for is hardly relevant here. I'd agree with you if the SC or HC called out Shah and held him responsible for the riot to spread. But otherwise, it is highly inappropriate to divert the focus to him. M4DU7 (talk) 10:15, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

M4DU7, I am expanding the content on Amit Shah and recent updates. Apparently Shah chaired 3 meetings in 24 hours, I will return to this discussion once ⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 10:36, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

M4DU7 The article did not say that HM Shah is reposnsible, the photo clearly mentioned the law and order is his responsibilities, I don't see any confusion, CM Kejriwal used the CrPC section 130 and asked the para-millitary force from Shah, but he eventualy refused on 25th citing everthing was looked after. So yes, its very relevant to add the photograph of the person whose responsibilty was to maintain law and order. Dey subrata (talk) 20:21, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

He is not a central figure in the riot since lot of such inciting statements were made by saveral leaders.Lot of unnecessary fear-mongering was done which led to this riot. Priyaraj544 (talk) 20:15, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Priyaraj544, The riots started a few hours after his provocative speech. Please read the news of Delhi high court today. Even Hon. HC asked to file case for inciting the riot. ⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 20:26, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It would be better if this article is written without any self emotions and biasedness involved. Whole timeline should be mentioned from december protests, and provocative speeches made all over India, And pictures should be added more for the riots. Putting pictures of ministers totally takes away the story. Sra1du (talk) 01:37, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Sra1du Yes the article is written in a unbaised way only, if someone did something wrong, it should be added, there is no baisedness in that. "..from december protests, and provocative speeches made all over India"- Does other leader brought their supporters by saying "come there with huge number and will reply the jaffrabad protesters" ? Does any other person give such ultimatum to police and directly challenging police if not protesters removed they will take law on hand? Did thakur, a&p verma deliver hate speech or not, and is there anyother leader who deliver such in Delhi? Who are the people against whom court asked police to take actions? Better get your rationale straight and discuss something better than whataboutism. And those picture are not taking anything away from story, no one forbade you to read the article and to just look at picture and even description in the picture clearly says what its describing. Dey subrata (talk) 04:05, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

we didn't find any statement and comment to provoke the people towards riot from Amanatullah Khan. Please remove that person from leadfigure, since he has no link with incident. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rashid Jorvee (talk • contribs)

 Done Indeed, there is a user who is repeatedly violating WP:BLP by addin git again and again, I have asked admins to sanction him. --⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 06:36, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

There was role of Waris Pathan he started this in his speech about the 15 cr and 100 cr which showed the ripple effect in other states. --Ashishyadav400 (talk) 10:07, 26 February 2020 (UTC)ashishyadav400^[1][reply]

Ashishyadav400 This is an encyclopedia, not your social media timeline, WP:NPOV and irrational and imaginary opinions are not added in wiki, period. And who said that there is a role ? Dey subrata (talk) 18:34, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done there is no connection Dey subrata (talk) 04:11, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Many Muslim leaders like owasi have made statements like "1 crore will be ruling 15 crore " This is not a mob reaction but a pre planned event by politicians . As an eye witness they have stored guns swords stones for this purpose. When police fires tear gass balls people cover them with buckets of cold water . From mosques one could observe their respectables asking people to go and fight for God . 103.211.16.206 (talk) 06:41, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. ⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 06:42, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

https://scroll.in/video/953832/watch-15-crore-can-outweigh-100-crore-said-aimim-leader-waris-pathan-in-controversial-caa-speech You have accepted edits with reference to this website in this article, so this hould be reliable in this case. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.40.239.178 (talk) 18:04, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

because Waris's comment is related to CAA, not related to Delhi riots. ⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 18:41, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Kapil Mishra is not proven guilty . He is saying that no one should be allowed to make riots so please remove his photograph . It is not his statement because he is leader of people who want caa and riots are done by Anti caa protesters. His photograph makes an impact as if he is the one behind riots. 103.211.16.206 (talk) 06:46, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: Article does not say he is guilty. gautam Gambhir also named him. that he must be punished if involved ⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 06:48, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Many intelligence reports and arrests by police shows that these Anti-CAA protests were supported by radical Islamic outfits like PFI. A lot of provocative speech and fake news by muslim leaders, actors and artists lead to rise in violence across protest sites in India. In Chennai, Tamil Nadu, Islamic outfits threaten to close down the state functioning. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sshivamsngh (talk • contribs) 07:31, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

First this is a article on Delhi riots, second: UP police not a reliable source, third: the article you have shared is on Jan 3, fourth: provocative speech made in other state without any link to Delhi is not a cause to this riot, fifth: hate speech are far more responsible than provocative speech, oops, I think you forget to mention Anurag Thakur, Parvesh Verma, Adityanath. Dey subrata (talk) 18:42, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done :NPOV and irrational arguments Dey subrata (talk) 18:42, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Violence has been a duet here. People from both communities caused harm and suffered. But this particular article is discriminative and needs to be removed immediately for false spread of information. Ishan241200 (talk) 08:21, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Ishan241200, please provide the content you want to add with WP:RS sources. ⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 08:23, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Ishan241200 Really, is there anything added in the article without proper and relaible source? Second, specify which false information you are talking about ? Third, is discriminative, explain how? Fouth, what else do you want to add other than things that are already been discussed in the talk page and found out to be POV? Also provide citation for anything you say and want to add. Dey subrata (talk) 18:49, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

On contrary on what is written this is not a communal riot as Muslims are not the only people affected. Even hindus have been attacked, killed and affected. Furthermore inspite of provocative statement from kapil mishra, it was the Anti- CAA protestors who started the violence by pelting stones on the people who were supporting the act. AaRonBran (talk) 08:56, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. ⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 09:03, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Warish pathan (AIMIM Leader) andAmanat ullah khan (AAP leader) and AAP leaders are main culprits of this riot based on CAA. 47.8.27.148 (talk) 08:56, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. ⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 09:03, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

IP is most probably talking about AIMIM leader Waris Pathan's remark on 22nd Feb [6]. Not sure about adding it in the article. —Sarvatra (talk, contribs) 09:58, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Unrelated to this riots.--⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 10:39, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This is shameful that only one sided facts are published.. It seems that they r trying to present it as hindu terrorism... The provocative anti hindu anti indian comments are not mentioned... Nothing about shahrukh (the man who fired 8 rounds of bullets ) is mentioned... Leftists everywhere.. Arkadeep Dey (talk) 10:37, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Arkadeep Dey Is there anything added in the article is without proper and reliable citations? What else do you think is not mentioned? "Provocative anti hindu anti indian" which one and is it added withou citations? How and if added, anti-Hindu become anti-Indian? "Leftish everywhere" is direct abuse, and labelling, explain how? or else I will make sure you be blocked from wiki. Dey subrata (talk) 18:54, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I mean to say that the provocative words of the anti caa protestors were not mentioned... Arkadeep Dey (talk) 01:35, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

And in one of the replies to someone, I saw a reply is made saying that no person was killed by that guy shahrukh so it is not that important... I don't know wht he tried to mean with that... Please elaborate... That guy openly fired and he's saying it isn't important just because BBC , Reuters didn't cover it!!! Seriously!!... Anyways forgive me for my last words... Arkadeep Dey (talk) 01:41, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I apologize for that Dey Subrata... Arkadeep Dey (talk) 01:42, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Arkadeep Dey provocative words of the anti caa protestors, which words? Explain with reliable citations. Your second concern, the shooting guy, is important so too other shooters, there were several shooters, how can an article give importance to just one shooter just because he was captured in video and talked about, there are various shooter and various other videos too. So yes the editor was correct in his words about the shooting issues. And remember wikipedia is not news, we cannot include everything that is included in news articles. You must go through WP:NOT. And next time be careful what you say here, be civil and respect other, this is not social media and neither newpaper articles. Everything written here with proper and reliable citations and also with proper justification and rationale and with consensus. Dey subrata (talk) 01:55, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Arkadeep Dey: You can, right here at this talk page, give a news source which supports "provocative words of the anti caa protestors". Once you give a source, we can talk about how we will add it to the article. But please understand that if you are proposing to add something to the article, you should start by giving a source first. Regards. —Sarvatra (talk, contribs) 01:59, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

All the matter posted on this page is a fake & Imaginert story just to blame the BJP Government for the riots started by Muslim Mob. We Peoples of India are fedUp of these lies and Imaginative stories. Please Stop It. 103.41.27.210 (talk) 11:30, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 11:38, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Page does not exist. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zert30 (talk • contribs) 11:48, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It exists here, on North_East_Delhi_riots--⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 11:49, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Why you are not allowing edit by the ordinary citizen? It does lot of damage to the reputation of the wikipedia community. It is full of biases and smell of your ideological posturing. 2409:4053:2116:1B6C:E54D:E227:DE04:BB0A (talk)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. 180.242.51.208 (talk) 12:33 —Preceding undated comment added 12:35, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It is only temporarily protected from editing by brand new users for a few more hours, the protection was due to a wave of vandalism. – Thjarkur (talk) 12:57, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

One of the NDTV journalists attacked by mobs was Saurabh Shukla. Muhammad Taha Tariq Ahmed Kashmiri (talk) 12:49, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Muhammad Taha Tariq Ahmed Kashmiri , can you share the link for this information. --⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 13:32, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Muhammad Taha Tariq Ahmed Kashmiri & DBigXray there are severals. Better to add media houses/group/publisher for whom they work rather than names. I could have added names but is not aligned with notability. Dey subrata (talk) 18:58, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Dey subrata, yes, It all depends on the incident. How major it was. which is why I asked for a link if he has one. I think I have heard he was attacked but dont know the details. ⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 19:01, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

DBigXray Already added, if more details needed to there, I can do that too, one thing that i know missing is he was punched several times and the first journalist Gunesekaran was beaten severaly and broken several teeth, Shukla is reportedly limping. Dey subrata (talk) 19:27, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The riots were instigated by Waris Pathan who openly called for muslim community to wage a war against Hindus. He is the prime sponsor of Shaheen bagh which has become the symbol of Anti CAA protest. ^[2]

Liberals are trying to pass the buck on Kapil Mishra, BJP leader just to hide the hate speech of Shoaib Jamai, Waris Pathan and Assaudin Owaisi. Preeti Dhawan Walia (talk) 13:28, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. ⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 13:31, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

There is a concern that wikipedia moderator is biased. This need to be in wiki page as well https://www.opindia.com/2020/02/delhi-riots-wikipedia-article-biased-anti-hindu/ Shyamite (talk) 13:59, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Opindia is a Pro BJP/RSS propaganda site and not a Reliable Source. Please provide a reliable source and content that you want to add. ⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 14:08, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

User:BIKASH NANDA GOSWAMI, What is the basis for ordering in the list ? It seems random. can you please arrange in chronological order. oldest death on top. thanks. --⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 14:01, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

While blaming Kapil Misra please add what all he said and what is really provocative there and compare that with statements of Waris or Sharjeel. This is a classic story of capturing the perspective of pseudo liberals and pseudo seculars

Also factually incorrect when it says peaceful protest by Misra gets attacked by pro CAA group in the very first section Srinivaks (talk) 14:39, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Please see what the Hon. High Court said about his speech today in Court. Will you say that HC is biased ?

• https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/kapil-mishras-controversial-speech-played-in-delhi-high-court/article30920985.ece
• https://news.abplive.com/news/india/delhi-riots-hc-directs-police-to-register-fir-against-kapil-mishra-others-for-inflammatory-speeches-1165895
• https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/delhi-violence-high-court-kapil-mishra-hate-speech-video-1650153-2020-02-26 ⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 14:40, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I also want to add that this article is totally biased not mentioning Amanatullah Khan, or that bus drivers in Maharastra are also being beaten up due to this. https://www.altnews.in/video-of-bus-driver-beaten-up-in-maharashtra-shared-with-communal-angle-amid-delhi-riots/. Wiki moderators should look into the bias characteristics of this article. --Datta (talk) 17:02, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Datta, what is the relation of amanatulla or bus drivers in maharashtra with delhi riots ? please explain with evidence ⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 17:33, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Articles from Opindia to Business Insider mention Amanatullah Khan's involvement with this whole incidence from mid-December. I think Business Standard is a proper source. --Datta (talk) 12:27, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The article also fails to mention the emerging link between the riots and related protests with the extremist Islamist organization PFI ^[3]

 Not done POV and irrational opinions. Has been discussed many and several times. Dey subrata (talk) 04:30, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I wouldn't call this POV and irrational. The Enforcement Directorate (ED) has found evidence linking PFI to the riots. [1] [2] [3] and these are prominent sources. Also importance of money where it comes from is important to understand the structure of this entire incidence. --Datta (talk) 12:27, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

A 33-year old Muslim man identified as Shahrukh after he confronted an unarmed Delhi Police officer, and shot indiscriminately at people on the other side of the road. Seven people, including a Head Constable of the police died due to the anti-CAA riots. Initially, this man was falsely claimed to be part of the pro-CAA groups. He fired around eight rounds. Due to anti-CAA mobs holding orange plastic crates, and behind him many were seen to wear skull caps. ^[4] Datta (talk) 16:58, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. There is no evidence he killed those 7 people. No one is saying he did. Provide source supporting your content first. ⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 17:02, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Role of islamists who are attacking homes of residents & police with petrol bombs completely whitewashed. No mention of provocative speeches by Waris Pathan & Amanatullah khan Indostar1331 (talk) 17:48, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Waris Pathan & Amanatullah khan are not related to this riot. Provide ref and content you want to add. ⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 17:53, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

How are they not relevant? They are the ones who incited the Muslims and extremist islamists to start the riots. Inflammatory speeches by Pathan and Amanatullah had a big impact on how the situation built up. By the same logic then the shaheen bagh protests are unrelated as well. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.228.66.14 (talk) 04:12, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Waris pathan and amanatullah khan are directly involved in riots they made inflammatory speeches directly urging Muslims to go on road few days back. Ofcourse when repeatedly such videos are cirucluated than they start taking affect and it all started to take effect on 22 Feb. There are various videos and articles directly linking even in court it has been discussed. Wikipedia should have all information and wiki page can't be judge of who started anything we present available Info. Indian Court will decide. Sanwat (talk) 06:04, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Sanwat Does these leader brought their supporters by saying "come there with huge number and will reply the jaffrabad protesters" ? Does any of these person give such ultimatum to police and directly challenging police if not protesters removed they will take law on hand? Did thakur, a&p verma deliver hate speech or not, and is there anyother leader who deliver such in Delhi? Who are the people against whom court asked police to take actions? Did pathan give speech in Delhi? Answer yourself and get you rationale straight before commenting WP:UNDUE. Dey subrata (talk) 06:53, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done irrational commentary. Dey subrata (talk) 06:54, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-51612461 192.40.239.178 (talk) 17:52, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 18:00, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The all editors who edit here I want their opinions. According to my point of view the incident of Shahrukh should be added. The incident gets much coverage. Though I added it earlier but later it was removed. What do you think?S. M. Nazmus Shakib (talk) 20:03, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

S. M. Nazmus Shakib, why do you think it merits a mention here ? All he did was wave a gun and fire in the air. There is no evidence he killed or injure anyone. Not worth to be mentioned due to WP:BLPNAME ⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 20:06, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

DBigXray Yes he did not kill or injure anybody. But, his video went on viral. And directly firing to police is not a common thing. If we should not mention his name as he is not notable can the incident be added in the article?S. M. Nazmus Shakib (talk) 20:15, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

S. M. Nazmus Shakib, If you read international new sites, like reuters, BBC, you will find that they did not cover this incident. why ? because it was not a major incident. Lot of videos became viral for example the guy being dragged on road, one singing Jan gan man, The man breaking masjid minaret, There are so many. We cannot possibly cover all of this. I would suggest you to focus on more important things like Killing of IB officer, Killing of Constable, or other major incidents, lot of them needs to be expanded. ⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 20:20, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

He should be mentioned by name as this was an important development. Since when is the brazen threatening of an unarmed police officer a minor thing? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.228.66.14 (talk) 04:10, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Discussed above several times. Name is not required to be added per WP:NOTE, WP:BLPNAME and there were other shooter too, and seeing nobody got killed by him but other shooter did kill, it again fails notability per WP:NBIO. And police did not give any clarification of identification of shooter who killed people. So no we can't add such things. Dey subrata (talk) 04:44, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

BIKASH NANDA GOSWAMI (talk) 20:50, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 21:05, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• The Delhi pogrom 2020 is Amit Shah’s answer to an election defeat

Interesting article. Can we use anything from this article ? --⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 21:04, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

No. It's an opinion piece. And only that. For example, second para first line "The Delhi pogrom of 2020 is state-sponsored. Anyone who cannot see that is pretending to be blind". Really? —Sarvatra (talk, contribs) 21:32, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

DBigXray Everybody in Delhi knew this, its actually NOT opinion, its the bitter fact after all. Dey subrata (talk) 04:56, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Proofs for this article or news please ? 203.122.12.118 (talk) 21:15, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. The list of Proof/ refs for the riot article can be found at North_East_Delhi_riots#References ⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 21:22, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/26/world/asia/delhi-riots-kapil-mishra.html?smtyp=cur&smid=tw-nytimesworld
• Mirror Below.
• https://thebaltimorepost.com/the-roots-of-the-delhi-riots-a-fiery-speech-and-an-ultimatum/

Is this the area where "A mosque in Ashok Nagar was vandalized and a Hanuman flag was placed on one of the minarets of the mosque." took place? --LaserLegs (talk) 23:36, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

LaserLegs No, this one. Reason for asking??? Dey subrata (talk) 00:17, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This has been proven to be a fake news — Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.228.66.14 (talk) 04:07, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

131.228.66.14 By whom, you? I don't see any reliable source saying your words ! Please enlighten me with your profound knowledge. Dey subrata (talk) 05:00, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Muxlims Breaking into Hindu Houses https://www.facebook.com/mintu.pandey.3133/videos/2343830182576509/UzpfSTEwMDAwMTE2MzY0MTU1NDoyNjkwMzYyMjgxMDEyNTM0/ Dangi 03:28, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Facebook is not considered a reliable reference.--DreamLinker (talk) 04:18, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Signature is not correctly specified. I have left a notice [7] on your talk.--DreamLinker (talk) 04:26, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Preliminary investigation has revealed involvement of two gangs.[8] —Sarvatra (talk, contribs) 04:54, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Singhal.vikas206 (talk) 05:20, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 06:56, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The family of Intelligence Bureau (IB) officer Ankit Sharma who was brutally killed by rioters in Northeast Delhi’s Chand Bagh, has accused local AAP leader Tahir Hussain of being behind the attack. “Tahir Hussain the AAP councilor is behind the murder of my brother. Anti CAA protestors took my brother and three others to the building which belongs to Tahir Hussain”, Ankit’s brother was quoted as saying.

The family also alleged that the rioters were shooting from the AAP councillor's home and were also equipped with swords and petrol bombs. It added that Ankit was killed by the mob while he was trying to help civilians being trapped by the rioters.

Ankit’s father too pinned the killing on the AAP councillor and described how the family began fearing the worst at 2 AM on Wednesday (26 February). They were later informed of his death by one of their neighbours.

The family has alleged that Ankit’s body had bullet, stab wounds and his throat too was slit. The cops meanwhile have sent the body for a postmortem.

Ankit had joined the IB in 2017 and was posted as a driver in the MT department. His body was dumped in a drain by the rioters.^[1]

Tahir Hussain and waris pathan role on this riots should be added. Tahir Hussain house used for throwing stones and petrol bombs. Evidences as per various interviews suggest 4 men were forcefully taken into his home 1 of them was ankit sharma. And later 3 dead bodies found. Ankit sharma's brother said he saw his brother taken away from his own eyes. This is totally hijacked page by propagandist ignoring facts. Sanwat (talk) 05:47, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Not sure about Waris Pathan, but councilor Tahir Hussain's role has been reported by different news websites. Adding sources for further discussion. [9],[10],[11] cc @DBigXRay:. —Sarvatra (talk, contribs) 05:55, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Waris pathan speech responsible for riots Sanwat (talk) 06:11, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I am not sure that Tahir Hussain is involved. But, my point of view is he might be involved and he mightn't be involved. First there are many sources available where he was blamed for the killing. And there are sources available there denied the allegations. But, The police so far have not commented on the allegations against Hussain. And even no comment from high court about him. And even the source I have presented here there it seems X party says he is involved but Y party says he was not involved. Let's wait for better sources. But, its true the relatives directly alleged him. So it can be added according to this point.S. M. Nazmus Shakib (talk) 06:11, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Family's claim is based on a video which claim to be of Hussain's. So lets wait for any fact check article and some better articles of the said video and the incidents, we can add then. Dey subrata (talk) 06:17, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"Family's claim is based on a video"? Not in the source[12] —Sarvatra (talk, contribs) 06:23, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Sarvatra, other articles say so. Secondly, he said police asked him to leave home which supposed to have done, as security of MLA is police's responsibilty. So police can also verify this. Third, he was IB officer and his death is totally different from other, it seems fishy to me, it could be a case of murder for other cases taking advantage of this riot. Wait for more clear and fact checking articles. Can be added. Dey subrata (talk) 06:37, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Much more than "alleged by family". Sources [13],[14]. —Sarvatra (talk, contribs) 07:06, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

There are also some sources there NDTV India, Aajtak, Zee News and so on. I think it should be added now.S. M. Nazmus Shakib (talk) 07:19, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Authenticity of claims need to be verified, as I said, let fact check articles be there, and more clear article, and as Delhi police can clarify the same as he was asked to leave home by police. Wait for it, don't just headbang the wall to establish a point. Dey subrata (talk) 07:28, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know why Tahir Hussain incident is not added till now. Please see Outlook, Navbharat Times, News Nation and so on. Patrol Bomb, acid, stone etc found from the roof of his house.S. M. Nazmus Shakib (talk) 10:27, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

S. M. Nazmus Shakib, because these are not providing the full picture. NDTV report shows that he was asked by police to leave his house after which the gangs put those things there. There is his side of the events as well. ⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 10:47, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Biman1989 (talk) 12:35, 27 February 2020 (UTC) We can see that timenow.com,opindia.com,indiatoday is not considered as reliable but ndtv.com has been considered as reliable for some strange reason. Tahir Hussains role mentioned in multiple media houses. Everybody knows that many times ndtv.com also spread false/propaganda news too.[reply]

Biman1989, You are supposed to sign at the end. Timesnow and Opindia are considered not reliable, you can read about it in the discussion thread at WP:RSN. it is not my problem that you are utterly ignorant that they are propaganda sources. If you think NDTV is propaganda source then post your evidence at WP:RSN and get it banned ⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 12:40, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

DBigXray, Dey subrata, how about we add a section on Tahir Hussain mentioning both sides of the arguments? Can then add and update as information is properly verified. SerTanmay (talk) 14:03, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

SerTanmay, any such proposed draft would first need to be discussed here per wP:CONSENSUS ⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 14:05, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

DBigXray, how about I take personal responsibility and create a draft on my sandbox? We will then discuss it here and add it after concensus. SerTanmay (talk) 14:18, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

SerTanmay, sounds good to me. Also we must include both sides. I have heard Tahir's interview and it is quite obvious that he is being framed and dragged in this case for getting political advantage. ⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 14:21, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

DBigXray, Agreed, but the issue deserves mention here especially if he is being framed. The people need to know the tactics used by Delhi Police. SerTanmay (talk) 14:27, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This article needs to be rewritten to show that the AAP politicians were responsible for the riots.

Links:-

https://www.timesnownews.com/delhi/article/delhi-riots-petrol-bombs-found-on-aap-corporators-rooftop-tahir-hussain-claims-rioters-took-over-his-home/558320

https://www.deccanherald.com/national/north-and-central/delhi-violence-aap-councillor-tahir-hussain-blamed-for-ib-personnels-death-808498.html

https://www.opindia.com/2020/02/tahir-hussain-aap-corporator-ankit-sharma-murder-video-viral/

https://www.news18.com/videos/ivideos/ib-officer-ankit-sharmas-family-accuses-aap-corporator-tahir-hussain-for-murdering-him-2517421.html

https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/delhi-violence-clashes-how-unfolded-northeast-sequence-1649674-2020-02-25

See these also-[15] for suspected role of Nasir and Irfan gang and [https://www.timesnownews.com/delhi/article/delhi-riots-petrol-bombs-found-on-aap-corporators-rooftop-tahir-hussain-claims-rioters-took-over-his-home/558320 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Spasiba5 (talk • contribs) 14:12, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Spasiba5, No, there is no evidence for your claims and I must remind you about wP:TE. you may soon find yourself blocked if you continue this type of behavior. ⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 14:23, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

DBigXray, Why? Are all those links unacceptable?—Spasiba5 (talk) 14:29, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Spasiba5, No your comment before those links is unacceptable, who do you think yourself as ? Chief Justice of India ? ⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 16:25, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Btw this happened recently

"Delhi violence: FIR registered under section 302 IPC (Punishment for murder) at Dayalpur police station, AAP Councilor Tahir Hussain named in the 'Details' section of the FIR."

https://twitter.com/ANI/status/1233046365170589700 43.224.131.12 (talk) 15:35, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Please keep your comment focused on the topic and not on the users. read the discussion above. ⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 15:48, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

DBigXray, you said, "I have heard Tahir's interview and it is quite obvious that he is being framed and dragged in this case for getting political advantage." Where is the neutrality in that statement? How is it obvious to you if you are neutral? Also where are the sources supporting your point of view that he is being framed? 43.224.131.12 (talk) 15:58, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Neutral (WP:NPOV) does not mean you cannot share your opinions on the talk page. The source of this piece of information is Tahir's interview on NDTV. ⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 16:03, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

There is a broad consensus that there should be a a section covering Ankit Sharma's murder and or Tahir Hussain's involvment. Following is my draft proposal for the same, edits are welcome , but we do need to post a section on this since it is a major event in this incident which cannot be excluded.

Ankit Sharma Murder

On 26th February, a body was recovered from a drain in the Chand Bagh area of Northeast Delhi.^[1] The deceased was later identified as 26-years old Ankit Sharma who worked as a security assistant in the Intelligence Bureau. Family members of the victim soon alleged that Sharma was actually kidnapped by a mob of 15-20 men and taken inside a building belonging to Tahir Hussain, an AAP councilor from Nehru Vihar area of Mustafabad. Ravinder Sharma, the victim's father was quoted as saying "My son was coming back from duty. 15-20 people came from Tahir's building and took him along with a few others. When people went to free them, they were fired upon and attacked with petrol bombs. Acid was also thrown on them" ^[2].

Meanwhile an unverified video circulated on social media showed Tahir Hussain ^[3] with a stick in his hand with several men on the rooftop of his building, some of whom had covered their faces. On 27th February, some media agencies reported to have found large number of stones, several petrol bombs and some unverified chemicals on the rooftop of Hussain's building^[4][5]. Following media reports, Hussain released a video on social media refuting the allegations leveled against him. He denied inciting the mob and has claimed that he and his family were moved out of the building by the police who shifted them to a safe location on February 24th, one day prior to when Sharma was allegedly kidnapped. “I worked to stop violence, I’m innocent. I stopped people from climbing up my building. I requested the police to be present in the area as my building was being targeted and could be used for wrongful purposes. Delhi Police was present at the building, only they can tell what exactly happened," Hussain was quoted as saying by news agency ANI^[6].

The Delhi Police registered an FIR against Hussain on the basis of the complaint by Sharma's father, for allegedly being involved in the killing of Sharma. Hussain has been charged under sections 365 and 302 of the IPC, in which the maximum punishment is life imprisonment or death.^[7]. The police also sealed Hussain's house and factory for further investigation. A14i12 (talk) 17:04, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

PS: Some of the sources have videos embedded in them. Please view them before discussing the veracity of the source.

A14i12 (talk) 15:54, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Clearly this article is one-sided. I request experienced editors like Kautilya3 and The9Man to help. Please!—Spasiba5 (talk) 16:19, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I note that the version above is completely unacceptable as it is full of unverified allegations and political accusations. It is a blatant violation of Wikipedia's stringent policies on WP:BLP, WP:BLPNAME and WP:BLPCRIME. ⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 16:27, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

DBigXray, Dey subrata please check out User:SerTanmay/sandbox for my draft on the same. You may edit it to make the language more neutral or make any other necessary changes. SerTanmay (talk) 17:32, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

DBigXray How is this biased or unverified? Each and every line is corroborated by a reliable source? There are no assumptions or accusations. What exactly do you think is unverified and a violation of policies? I have mentioned both the sides of the story with proper sources. Both BLPNAME and BLPCRIME are not violated because all the names listed are widely disseminated in social media as well as news agencies and Hussain is already a public figure. The only name which can be omitted is that of Ankit Sharma's father's. The only reason you think this is biased is that you are rooting for Hussain because somehow you are convinced that he is innocent. The matter is under investigation lets not form opinions just yet. It is abhorring that you are not posting anything about Tahir despite him dominating news coverage today. This is perhaps the second-most important investigation pertaining to the case yet somehow it doesn't find any mention on the page. If Rahul Solanki's father can be quoted then why not Ankit Sharma's. I have quoted both his father and Husaain. The only one who is being biased ae the moderators who are desperately trying to portray this incident as a pogrom. A14i12 (talk) 18:20, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

the WP:BLP concerns are for Tahir. He is not a notable person and cannot be discussed or mentioned on wikipedia unless he is convicted in a court of law. The reasons are in the links I gave. Wikipedia does not care if IT cells keep chanting his name on social media. ⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 18:25, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

DBigXray How is a politician not a public figure? He is an elected councilman, hence a notable person. Just because you or me haven't heard his name before does not mean he is a private person. Not only "IT-cell" all major news channels are investigating Tahir. None of the sources I mentioned are right wing sources. It does not violate either of the links mentioned. Please keep prejudice aside and look at things objectively. A14i12 (talk) 18:57, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

DBigXray, A14i12, please check out the draft on my sandbox. If necessary, we can remove all the content of questionable verifiability. Have currently kept it there as "allegations". SerTanmay (talk) 18:31, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

DBigXray & SerTanmay just watched this and the fact is Hussain seems to give enough evidence and chronology to defend his side but I don't see the same on the basis of which the family accused. Interview of Hussain- Interesting fact, every house was targeted, police came which were asked to come by Huassain only, his house was taken care of by Police, I am not convinced of family's claim as there is no fact or evidence. Dey subrata (talk) 18:40, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I am not neutral in this all fiasco so I will restrain myself taking sides here and making any major edits.

But regarding Hussain's matter, an FIR is registered in his name for the charge of Ankit Sharma murder and his party suspended him from the primary membership. This matter is widely covered by almost all the media including NDTV^[8]. This surely worth a mention in this article. - The9Man | (talk) 18:36, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

DBigXray and SerTanmay my first question is why his death is more important than anyothers death?? We have not included other gruesome murders and deaths. Second, its been clear that he was asked by police to leave, but police's delay in revealing the developments is surprising, atleast they can clarify to media when and at what circumstances they asked his family to vacate. And I have gone through the sand box, there ae excessive, give it another revision it can be summarised more. And also search fr any fact-check articles on videos and photographs they are mentioning cause the claims are based on those photographs, if not wait fr such fact checking articles too. Dey subrata (talk) 17:51, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Dey subrata, good points put forward. Have edited the sandbox to reflect the alleged nature of the images and videos. SerTanmay (talk) 18:06, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed Dey subrata, has raised some very valid points. let me make a list of it as we would need to decide on each problem

1. Ankit Sharma is not a notable person neither on a high post, his death, is not any special than those 40 people killed by the rioters.
2. The circumstances leave a lot of questions, why did police asked him to leave instead of giving him protection in his house. If they asked him to leave, how is he responsible if rioters entered his house, after he left. Why did police allowed rioters to enter his house.
3. As Ravish Kumar NDTV said in Prime Time today, he seems to be used as an excuse by BJP to attack AAP.
4. Tahir has been suspended from AAP, so he is no longer an AAP concillor.
5. Tahir is a non notable person hence WP:BLPNAME and WP:BLPCRIME come into picture, no matter what news channels are saying, unless he is convicted, we cannot discuss the unproven allegation as it has direct impact on this living person.
6. The only uncontroversial content than can be added is that "the dead body of Ankit Sharma, a Security Assistant in IB was found in Jafrabad" ⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 18:40, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

   Points 1, 2, 3: Agreed.

   Point 4: Edited in my sandbox. (Should I move the draft here?)

   Point 5: I wasn't aware of this. Was about to ask how the BJP perpetrators can be added but not this but noticed that they all have wiki articles and Hussain doesn't.

   6. Was already added by me in the "25 February" section. SerTanmay (talk) 18:54, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Role of AAP councilor Tahir Hussain is completely ignored.

Author totally ignore the role of Tahir Hussain(AAP councilor). His home was used to throw stone. chemicals, petrol bombs. Numerous media channels showed that the rooftop of his house was full of stones, petrol bombs and other dangerous chemicals. His goons killed IB officer Ankit Sharma and dumped his body in a drain. There are so many videos which showed that the councilor himself running with stick with other Muslim mobs on the rooftop. Authors intentionally ignoring the facts to present an anti-Hindu image which is totally untrue and unacceptable according to Wikipedia standard. Whatever mentioned in page is half true and totally one-sided in nature. Authors are trying to present a total Anti-Hindu typed of theory by mentioning jai Sree Ram and har har mahadev Slogan. They didn't mention other side of rioted mentioned allah hu akbar slogan and burnt shops houses.

Requesting authors to consider both side and present a true facts otherwise we are going to sue them for spreading false ONE SIDED STORY.

Links: https://www.opindia.com/2020/02/tahir-hussain-aap-corporator-ankit-sharma-murder-video-viral/ https://www.deccanherald.com/national/north-and-central/delhi-violence-aap-councillor-tahir-hussain-blamed-for-ib-personnels-death-808498.html https://www.timesnownews.com/delhi/article/delhi-riots-petrol-bombs-found-on-aap-corporators-rooftop-tahir-hussain-claims-rioters-took-over-his-home/558320 https://www.news18.com/videos/ivideos/ib-officer-ankit-sharmas-family-accuses-aap-corporator-tahir-hussain-for-murdering-him-2517421.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by Biman1989 (talk • contribs) 12:17, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Biman1989, OP India and timesnow are not considered RELIABLE SOURCE, We have an existing thread discussing this, join there.  %%% ⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 12:21, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

DBigXray, you reverted my edits here. Please let me, Biman1989 and others know where it is being discussed.—Spasiba5 (talk) 12:53, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Spasiba5, see above and find ⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 12:57, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Role of Aap Councilor Tahir hussain

It is alleged AAP councillor Tahir Hussain used his house as base to attack Hindus. Ankit Sharma, a IB officer was dragged to his house and brutally killed. His Body is found near councillor's house. (unsigned comment from 71.135.7.84) 13:48, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Click this Talk:North_East_Delhi_riots#Role_of_Tahir_Hussain link for discussion and comment there!—Spasiba5 (talk) 14:15, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

PLANNED MURDER OF IB OFFICIAL by AAP corporator Tahir Hassan.. Tahir Hassan and his jihadi Henchmen murderded Hindu IB official brutally after torturing him for hours..his body was dumped in a sewage drain nearby.. Mr Ankit Sharma ..the IB official had gone to pacify the crowd and was working hard for Hindu Muslim unity..but Tahir Hassan brutally murdered him 106.51.21.79 (talk) 05:27, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

A propaganda website link, and seeing the islamphobic commentary, I would ask the ip be banned immediately. Dey subrata (talk) 05:56, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Dey subrata I have added some sources in the section right above "Role of Tahir Hussain". Take a look, and a line or two can be added based on it. —Sarvatra (talk, contribs) 06:01, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. ⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 06:42, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia editors or even news reporters are no judges that you can affix blame or decide who the perpetrators were. All of the below need to be edited or removed: 1. "in which 27 people, mostly Muslim" : No news media has cited casualty figures by religion. One ToI article listed below has a 50:50 ratio. This is a factually incorrect statement. https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/delhi/14-more-confirmed-deaths-take-toll-to-27-gunshot-wounds-killed-at-least-12/articleshow/74326586.cms

2. "when a BJP leader and former legislator Kapil Mishra issued a three day ultimatum to the Delhi Police[11] to clear the roads being occupied by the protestors failing which he stated that he would forcefully end the protests.[12] Following his comments, multiple clashes began occurring across North East Delhi from the next day" : There are now multiple news reports on pre planning to coincide with Donald trump's visit. There are allegations on AAP councillor Taher Hussain. On what basis has this blanket statement been made?

3. Lead Figures mentions names of 4 BJP leaders basis court discussion but has no details of actual perpetrators or of those against whom FIR have been lodged. This needs to be corrected.

I'll add more. Piyushtariyal (talk) 05:54, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Piyushtariyal: Thank you for adding all these. But I would suggest you to discuss individual issue in a different section here on the talk page. So that all the issues can be discussed in their own scope without getting mixed with other issues. Regards. —Sarvatra (talk, contribs) 06:13, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with Sarvatra mixing different topics will make it impossible to make a fruitful discussion. individual threads are already added, those should be made use of. ⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 06:51, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Following from a section above about the casualty list - since this riots supposedly also have a lot to do with religious orientation, the religious demographics of those killed should be mentioned in the article and further as part of the CAA casualty list over on the main article for this CAA protests - "Names of 19 People Killed in Delhi Riots Confirmed (The Wire)", Delhi violence | Death toll rises to 27 (The Hindu). DTM (talk) 05:59, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Citing the demographics of the dead is important as the article is incorrectly portraying it as against one community. Organized elements of the violence also need to be brought out like Mr Taher of AAP. Piyushtariyal (talk) 06:36, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@DiplomatTesterMan: Yeah go ahead and add it. —Sarvatra (talk, contribs) 07:47, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Sarvatra, added the section, any suggestions related to it? DTM (talk) 09:50, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@DiplomatTesterMan: Maybe, add a line for number of bodies yet to be identified. —Sarvatra (talk, contribs) 09:54, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• I neither added this list, nor removed it. It was added by some new user and removed by User:Knowledgekid87 citing WP:NOTMEMORIAL ⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 13:00, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• This is the second time I removed the list, its okay though to add the names of those who are notable as is done at Kyoto Animation arson attack under "victims". - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 14:08, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Multiple mainstream media sources have published on this. See [16] for suspected role of Nasir and Irfan gang and [17] for many crates of petrol bombs and stones found on rooftop of Tahir Hussain's house. Please add them in the article. PurnekarDamodar (talk) 06:44, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It is important to resolve individual issue in its own section. Please discuss these in above sections "Need a section for "Investigation into the riots"" and "Role of Tahir Hussain" respectively. —Sarvatra (talk, contribs) 06:57, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The article is about riots. Therefore, we need to provide details of what happened during the riots. We need to mention all shooting/killing/stone-pelting/vandalism incidents that occurred.

I read the thread above about the Jafarabad shooter. The concern raised by DBigXray was that this shooting incident was somehow not notable. However, the logic he provided was not good enough. I request DBigXray to provide better reasons in this thread. Pinging @Sarvatra, S. M. Nazmus Shakib, and Dey subrata:.

At least, a one-line mention for each major violent incident is must.— Vaibhavafro ^💬 06:48, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@DBigXray: Why did you remove my thread?— Vaibhavafro ^💬 06:59, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

That is your edit diff. I have no idea why you are blaming me. --⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 07:00, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

That’s the diff in which I undid your edit in which you removed my thread.— Vaibhavafro ^💬 07:02, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Possibly this. No worries, looks like edit conflict. —Sarvatra (talk, contribs) 07:03, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yes Sarvatra. That’s the diff.— Vaibhavafro ^💬 07:04, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Vaibhavafro, looking at the timestamp, it was EC indeed. the removal was completely unintentional and one that I was totally unaware of due to multiple ECs. Apologies for the trouble. ⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 07:07, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Vaibhavafro, I don't understand why opening threads are threads on the same topic, why can't you put your views and comment in the already opened previous thread. I have replied to several thread on the same topic, getting headache now. Dey subrata (talk) 07:09, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Vaibhavafro, I am in support of including major events, deaths/loot/arson. if folks have dispute, then WP:DR is the only way. Also please do not start new threads for existing topics. Why re-inventing the wheel again and again. ⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 07:09, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Vaibhavafro what is the point of opening threads after threads on the same topic, why can't you just put your comments in the existing thread, I ahve already replied to multiple threads on same topics. Getting headache literally. Dey subrata (talk) 07:12, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This thread is not just for Jafarabad incident but it is in general. All the logic that you people gave, from the Jafarabad shooter being singled out because he is a muslim to shooting incidents being very common, are extremely illogical. Please provide better reasons in this new thread. Your concern of WP:DUE can be solved using a one-line mention.— Vaibhavafro ^💬 07:42, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Moved from User talk:DiplomatTesterMan

Hey. Do you know how to setup a bot for archiving an article's talk page? Need one for Talk:North East Delhi riots. Can you help, please? —Sarvatra (talk, contribs) 06:26, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Sarvatra I had already set up the archiving (temporarily) for 24 hours to take care of the initial spurt of threads. but QEDK changed it to 7 days. And now Someone completely removed the scripts. I have now restored the script so that it runs and archives 24 hours old posts. Let me know if you have any suggestions on the time of archiving. --⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 06:48, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

User:Sarvatra please spend the time on expanding the article. leave the menial job of archiving to the bots, by tonight bot should archive 24 hr old threads. --⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 07:41, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Expand on what? There's no consensus yet on issue of shooter's inclusion, none on Tahir Hussain's activities, no one has responded to section about involvement of gangs. So just waiting out. —Sarvatra (talk, contribs) 07:46, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Sarvatra, I am sure you know that the riot is much more than shooter and Tahir. ⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 07:48, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Sarvatra and DBigXray Apologies, if it caused a problem. I had replaced the archive bot to Lowercase Sigmabot and changed the archive time from 7 days to 2 days [18]. ClueBot hadn't archived yet so I figured out it might be OK to change the bot and probably the change in bot (diff) might trigger the first archiving sooner. I had also replaced {{Archives|bot=ClueBot III|age=7}} as it is redundant if there is a {{Talk header}}--DreamLinker (talk) 17:19, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The bot takes around 24 hours after the bot scripts are added, for both. so this flip flop has only increased the delay. The archive duration can be increased once the page size becomes manageable. till then, I would suggest not to change the parameters. Cluebot adds an archive index, hence it was preferred. ⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 17:42, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

MUSLIMS DID THE RIOTS. THEY TORCHED HINDU FUEL PUMP. Out of all people dead, 80% are Hindus. Its radical muslim terrorism. 202.52.153.6 (talk) 09:46, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done Please maintain WP:NPOV and this is not a forum. You should provide reliable sources to prove your statements. Abishe (talk) 10:09, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

DBigXray has said to me "Neutral (WP:NPOV) does not mean you cannot share your opinions on the talk page." The user DBigXray who is super moderating this page does not mind sharing personal opinions . Why are some opinions being shunned while those of a particular agenda are not 43.224.131.12 (talk) 16:43, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• As above, please provide WP:Reliable source for your claims. %%% --⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 10:58, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Cops have been killed by mobs. Why does this article not have references for the same? Spasiba5 (talk) 10:39, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Because people are busy responding to the talk page comments. Spasiba5, Please propose the content you want to add along with the WP:RS, and it will be added. ⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 10:44, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Please read this Spasiba5 (talk) 10:51, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Spasiba5, and meanwhile you can read WP:SOFIXIT ⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 10:57, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

1. This is probably the only riots related page which has Goals in the infobox. How can there be one singular goal when the clashes were between two different communities. 2. Pogrom itself is basically a riot aimed at the massacre of one community. Since casualty lists include both hindus and muslims proving that not just one community was targeted, this word should be removed. A14i12 (talk) 10:44, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Let me quote this SC lawyer Karuna Nandy "Let's be clear. This is a communal riot- mobs killing, looting & torching Muslims, & also Hindus. Only one side's supported by police & State. An MLA of the ruling party lead a rioting mob shouting kill slogans started by Minister. That's why it's also a pogrom.--⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 10:49, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

So now a person's opinion is to be considered a valid source?? You have been rejecting edits on the basis of lack of credible sources and your big source is an individual's opinion?? This event doesn't match the very definition of the word pogrom as given in wikipedia. Moreover since pogrom itself is a targetted riot , how can it be one of the methods used in the riot?A14i12 (talk) 11:14, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@DBigXray: If that lawyer's opinion is why you have added 'pogrom', then I'm afraid it'll have to go. There's not one reference in the entire article which supports these riots as pogrom, and obviously so becuase the normalcy has just began and police investigation has now started. For one opinion like this, there are many others who can say the opposite. But they're all opinion of individuals. Please remove it. —Sarvatra (talk, contribs) 11:29, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

LoL, I used her comment as a rational argument, as a response to the OPs opinion. Opinion as a response to an opinion. I never said that her comment is an RS. I find this amusing that you are jumping over this. The pogrom cannot be removed.

Here is BBC article referring to it as Pogrom [19]

Here is The Diplomat article

And here is New york Times [20] also TRT World--⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 12:19, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This isn't a valid rational. What certain reporters who wrote these articles think of this incident is hardly an evidence. Those are still just opinions and a number of factors may have influenced this opinion. If tomorrow, a flat-earther reporter makes a case for the earth being flat, would the wikipedia community cite that to edit Earth page? By simply looking at the victims list one can understand that both hindus and muslims have been killed. According to several sources both hindus and muslims were the perpetrators. In such a scenario how can this be a pogrom.

Moreover, please remove "Goals" from the infobox. There can't be a singular goal when two communities attack each other. A14i12 (talk) 12:50, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

A14i12, Now you are going around in circles, Read my first reply in this comment once again. and see the links I shared. Wikipedia uses what WP:MAINSTREAM reliable sources are saying. Read Kapil Mishra's speech for the goal. ⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 12:59, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@DBigXray: Have you read the context of usage of word 'pogrom' in all of the articles? trtworld article uses it for Gujarat riots of 2002, for Narendra Modi (2002), and a 'possibility' (future) in current riots. It uses unverified viral videos of social media and words like 'thugs' and 'goons'. The diplomat article uses word 'pogrom' as quoted by "Several other journalists", without giving any link to who are they. BBC article is an opinion piece and uses opinion of a professor who believes the riots are "begining to look" like a pogrom. All of these are merely opinion used out of context here. How are they justified? —Sarvatra (talk, contribs) 13:01, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

No, FYI, TRT World says "The ongoing brutality in New Delhi dubbed 'communal violence' is the live unfolding of a pogrom against Muslims.--⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 13:10, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@DBigXray: That is just a stand-alone quote without any context. As if author just declared his opinion without substantiating it. You know it. If not for the design of the website, one would hardly be able to distinguish that article form an opindia article. —Sarvatra (talk, contribs) 13:18, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Sarvatra, It says so in the first line. LoL TRT world is a reliable Turkish news site. Take it to RSN if you want. ⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 14:01, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@DBigXRay: Firstly, at the top, the article itself states it's an opinion piece. Since it is an opinion, the statements of the author are required to be substantiated. So the first line which uses the word 'pogrom', simply calls the riots as a pogrom, and that's it. The author doesn't justify it further with any evidence as how it is a pogrom and why does he call it that way. Thus it cannot used as a source. —Sarvatra (talk, contribs) 14:09, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Sarvatra, The support by police has been documented and published by many many news sites, both domestic and foreign. The links have been shared where the event has been referred to as Pogrom. This is valid per WP:MAINSTREAM and the WP:BURDEN has been met. ⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 14:34, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@DBigXray This is just flawed logic. Just like you didn't let Tahir Hussain be mentioned due to lack of evidence and due to the lack of formal announcement by the Delhi Police, you cannot derive a cause and effect scenario from Kapil Mishra's speech as the Delhi police is yet to release an official report. Other source that I had mentioned clearly states that anti-caa protesters had in fact hurled stones at pro-caa gatherings. This very well could be the tipping point which set these clashes off and not Kapil Mishra's speech. Now even if there is a cause and effect relation between Kapil's speech and the riots, it is common knowledge that the riots were not one sided and since there were two different groups of perpetrators, there just cannot be a single goal. Moreover, I just do not understand why is there a need to add Goals in the first place. None of the wikipedia pages about riots(except the direct action day) have goals in the infobox simply because assigning a goal to a riot just makes humanizes these inhuman murderers. Such violence doesn't have a goal as they are based out of pure hatred. ^{[9] [10] [11] [12] [13] [14] [15] [16] [17] [18] [19] [20]}

Please do not make this page a propaganda page. Goals and pogrom on this doesn't make any sense. This was a spontaneous act of violence by two communities and not just one and there is literally no evidence to suggest otherwise. Foreign media are not a reliable source for something that is taking place in India. Leftists have a tendency to label everything as a pogrom and genocide. Authors have to use their logic to differentiate between fact based reporting and opinion based allegations. In any case how can a pogrom be one of the "Methods" used in the riots. Killing , arson , rioting, looting are methods but how is a pogrom a method. Please set aside your bias and remove these 2.

A14i12 (talk) 13:41, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Please remove status from the inbox as the riots are no more ongoing. Date can be changed to 24th to 26th February -A14i12 (talk) 11:41, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Says who ? link ? --⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 12:19, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

^[1] Says the cops ^[2]

--A14i12 (talk) 17:09, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

In both the sections there is a mention of protests starting some time after Kapil Mishra's speech. Source 37, clearly states that the clashes were a result of pro-CAA protesters throwing stones at anti-CAA protesters.

Please edit "Within a few hours of Kapil Mishra's rally, violent clashes started between the supporters and the people against CAA." in Incitement and "Within hours of his speech clashes broke out between the anti-CAA and pro-CAA demonstrators in Maujpur, Karawal Nagar, Maujpur Chowk, Babarpur and Chand Bagh." under Timeline/23rd Feb

to

Within a few hours of Kapil Mishra's rally, violent clashes started between the supporters and the people against CAA after a group of anti-CAA protesters reportedly hurled stones at a pro-CAA gathering at Maujpur Chowk and near a temple.

Within hours of his speech clashes broke out between the anti-CAA and pro-CAA demonstrators in Maujpur, Karawal Nagar, Maujpur Chowk, Babarpur and Chand Bagh after a group of anti-CAA protesters reportedly hurled stones at a pro-CAA gathering at Maujpur Chowk and near a temple.

respectively.

This pertinent fact which is backed by a source already used in the page shouldn't be hidden and must be mentioned in the article as it gives context to the following clashes.

^[1]

A14i12 (talk) 11:08, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

A14i12, Where does it says that the stones were by AntiCAA protestors ? Your lines are not supported by your content. fix your draft first to say what source says. ⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 11:12, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The source clearly mentions that protestors hurled stones at a pro-CAA gathering. In the context of the source the term protestors was used to describe anti-CAA agitators.

"February 22 (10:30 pm): Several protesters, including women, had gathered in large numbers and occupied a portion of the road near Jaffarabad Metro station since Saturday. A call was given by Bhim Army for a nationwide bandh. Protesters said they would go on a march from Chand Bagh to Raj Ghat.

February 23 (9 am): Senior officers ask protesters to vacate the area as it disrupted traffic in the area. No permission to march to Raj Ghat, Delhi Police tells protesters."

"February 23 (3:45- 4 pm): Protesters from Babarpur (shamshan wali gali) hurl stones at pro-CAA gathering at Maujpur Chowk and near a temple" A14i12 (talk) 11:18, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

A14i12, Wikipedia, cannot say something that is not supported by source. remove your personal analysis. Please read WP:OR and wP:SYNTH before a reply. ⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 11:31, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

How is it my personal analysis when the source clearly supports my statement? Please explain why this source is not being taken into consideration? According to the source(which has been cited elsewhere on the page) the chronology was as follows:

February 23 (3:45- 4 pm): Protesters from Babarpur (shamshan wali gali) hurl stones at pro-CAA gathering at Maujpur Chowk and near a temple

February 23 (4-5 pm): Clashes breaks out in Maujpur, Karawal Nagar, Maujpur Chowk, Babarpur and Chand Bagh. Police resort to lathicharge and fire tear gas shells. Paramilitary forces roped in

This clearly supports my edit. If you feel otherwise, Add a line mentioning that the stone throwing incident preceded the clashes. You cannot just filter what should be on the page on the basis of your bias and opinions.

A14i12 (talk) 11:46, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

A14i12, where does it say Anti CAA protestor or anything like that ? ⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 12:20, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@DBigXray Please read the source, the context is clear as day light. This is the statement preceeding 23rd Feb events: "February 22 (10:30 pm): Several protesters, including women, had gathered in large numbers and occupied a portion of the road near Jaffarabad Metro station since Saturday. A call was given by Bhim Army for a nationwide bandh. Protesters said they would go on a march from Chand Bagh to Raj Ghat." Anyone with an iota of knowledge over the subject knows that these protesters were anti-caa because they were the one who occupied Jaffarabad Metro.^[1] Please use logic to justify the edits and not your opinion and bias. A14i12 (talk) 12:29, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

A14i12, You will have to propose a draft based on what the source says. (and not your feelings or personal logic or bias). I invite you to read WP:OR. ⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 12:32, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This is a perfectly reasonable change:

23 February On 23 February Kapil Mishra, along with his supporters, reached the protest site at Jaffarabad and delivered a provocative speech. Some time later, protesters reportedly hurled stones at the pro-CAA gathering at Maujpur Chowk and near a temple^[1]. Within hours of the speech, several reports of clashes between the anti-CAA and pro-CAA demonstrators in Maujpur, Karawal Nagar, Maujpur Chowk, Babarpur and Chand Bagh emerged.[22][35] Police used lathi-charge and tear gas to disperse the crowd and to take situation in control.

A14i12 (talk) 13:49, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

 Done A14i12 I have made the changes with some minor copy edits. Please check. ⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 13:57, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hi DiplomatTesterMan, Thanks for working on the map. it is much needed. I have temporarily removed the map that you added there, I think the locations are factually wrong (excessive on the north and east), needs work, improve this your sandbox first. and Once ready share a link of the sandbox along with a reliable source that confirms the same. --⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 11:09, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Will work on it in the sandbox with sources. DTM (talk) 11:16, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

DBigXray The riots affected a very small part of Delhi (relatively)... in the NE... please see the map here. DTM (talk) 11:18, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

DiplomatTesterMan, thx restored. Dey can help to verify. ⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 11:30, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Here is another map ThePrint link Outlook also shares a map - link. DTM (talk) 11:32, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe rather than points, the areas can be highlighted too. I didn't mean to represent exact points. DTM (talk) 11:34, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Why not place the map right under infobox? —Sarvatra (talk, contribs) 11:36, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Isn't it possible to put a caption in the map? that will help will sources and clarity. DTM (talk) 11:37, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

From what I know, if one has an SVG image of map, then we can mark places on it. For example, see the airports map at List of airports in India. Not sure about the openstreet map. —Sarvatra (talk, contribs) 11:42, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I know very little about these kind of script based maps. may be asking help at WP:VP or relevant wikiproject might help. For now I have restored. If it needs polishing, it can be done in sandbox of DTM ⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 12:24, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

DiplomatTesterMan Please instead of points highlight the whole NE Delhi district, every single area under riot. Dey subrata (talk) 16:41, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This article reeks of anti-Hindu propaganda hate mongering, quite evident from the tone. Deliberately applying controversial words like Hindu, ProHindu and quoting fake slogans with English translations allegedly used by prohindus. No anti-India, anti Hindu slogans mentioned, which were used extensively by the rioters. This article needs heavy editing. Chinmay nayak23 (talk) 13:14, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Please read WP:RFCBEFORE first. --⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 13:28, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Links: https://www.opindia.com/2020/02/tahir-hussain-aap-corporator-ankit-sharma-murder-video-viral/ https://www.deccanherald.com/national/north-and-central/delhi-violence-aap-councillor-tahir-hussain-blamed-for-ib-personnels-death-808498.html https://www.timesnownews.com/delhi/article/delhi-riots-petrol-bombs-found-on-aap-corporators-rooftop-tahir-hussain-claims-rioters-took-over-his-home/558320 https://www.news18.com/videos/ivideos/ib-officer-ankit-sharmas-family-accuses-aap-corporator-tahir-hussain-for-murdering-him-2517421.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by Spasiba5 (talk • contribs) 13:29, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I have been reverted here. What is wrong with it? A lot of users are complaining that this article is one sided. Some editors are policing this article to keep it from looking anti-national. Please comment!—Spasiba5 (talk) 13:44, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Please read WP:RFCBEFORE first. This is a gross misuse of RFC--⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 13:46, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Talk:North_East_Delhi_riots#Role_of_Tahir_Hussain link for discussion⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 14:02, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I am going to start the discussion by saying that for this particular article having a victim list does more harm than good. I am aware of victim inclusion on events such as Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting, but also see articles like Kyoto Animation arson attack (at GA status). Right off the top we have an issue with the first thing that was added for the section: "34 people died in several incidents of violence. Below is a list of some of them:", why are there only "some" of the victims included? Are "some" more notable than others? When the death count becomes higher, it becomes more of a challenge to include all of the names without having the article turn into a Memorial. Its really up to editors here if having a victim list will improve the quality of the article or not. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 14:16, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I would note that I support this comment by Knowledgekid87. ⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 14:20, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I also support it, but we must first list the Aam Aadmi Party politicians who started the riots and cite references for the same!—Spasiba5 (talk) 14:24, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@DiplomatTesterMan: Reverting without discussing things here is considered disruptive. I will copy and paste your above statement here though...

"Following from a section above about the casualty list - since this riots supposedly also have a lot to do with religious orientation, the religious demographics of those killed should be mentioned in the article and further as part of the CAA casualty list over on the main article for this CAA protests - "Names of 19 People Killed in Delhi Riots Confirmed (The Wire)", Delhi violence | Death toll rises to 27 (The Hindu)."

Citing the Citizenship Amendment Act protests article falls under WP:WAX as I have already pointed out that casualty list inclusion depends on the article. I do not see the justification of citing Religious demographics here for inclusion as in the end people are people. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 14:48, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I second Knowledgekid87, having a victim list will not make much sense, especially if the list grows larger. SerTanmay (talk) 16:00, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I am not going to break WP:3RR, if someone feels there is a consensus then remove the "casualty list". - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 16:39, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Ankit Sharma's neighbors also alleged (while Speaking to the media), that stones and petrol bombs had been thrown from the roof of the five-story building owned by Mr. Hussain (AAP leader and Municipal Councilor "Tahir Hussain"). As proof of these allegations, videos have been shared that show a man believed to be Mr. Hussain, on the roof along with some other men involved in stone-pelting and other criminal activities. Incident Video 122.168.89.209 (talk) 14:52, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done for now: already being discussed in threads above on this page. ⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 14:56, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The whole article is very Hindu-phobic and is not at all based on facts. It has been writen by apologists trying to change the reality and blame Hindus. Please see the news and have a look who actually were rioting and killing. Muslims went around terrorizing so many yet play the victim. such unverified articles tarnish wikipedia. 2601:86:100:7C70:5CB3:5B95:1177:2025 (talk) 15:43, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. The talk page is not a forum. Please be specific about what change you want.--DreamLinker (talk) 17:23, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/feb/26/the-guardian-view-on-delhis-violence-modi-stoked-this-fire

This can be used, but another opinion would be needed to balance out as an opposing viewpoint. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 16:43, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree with adding this quote as a quote box (no objection to mentioning it in the text though). As much as we sympathise with the victims, highlighting one particular quote is undue weight and the presentation in the quote box (without context) is bordering a BLP violation (in comparison, the mention in the text is OK because it specifies it as an allegation). If this quote was highlighted by a significant number of media, perhaps it would be OK to include it in the quote box. However, that is not the case here.--DreamLinker (talk) 18:02, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

DreamLinker, agreed. SerTanmay (talk) 18:09, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

DreamLinker, how is it a BLP violation ? ⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 18:45, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@DBigXray: It's an allegation being given undue weight (when presented in the quote box). The quote box also removes the context. As tragic as the incident is, we don't selectively highlight quotes unless the quote itself has received proportionally significant coverage.--DreamLinker (talk) 18:53, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]