Involuntary celibacy

Involuntary celibacy (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

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This article, whose suitability as an article topic is contested for various reasons, is again relisted following discussion at Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2015 December 21. This is a procedural nomination, I am neutral.

To help the closing admin find a hopefully lasting consensus, please do not only "vote" for deletion or keeping, but express a clear preference (together with an explanation based on Wikipedia policies and guidelines) about whether, how and at which depth you would like the content associated with this topic, including the supposed "incel" subculture, to be covered on Wikipedia: whether as one or more standalone articles (with which titles?), or as part of other (which?) articles. Please also take note of the previous discussions listed here.  Sandstein  11:19, 29 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Speedy Keep The topic is clearly notable as A History of Celibacy has an entire chapter about involuntary celibacy which details various ways that this might arise; for example, young women might be forbidden to marry before their older sisters or apprentices might be forbidden to marry until they mastered their trade. The topic should therefore be kept in accordance with our editing policies such as WP:PRESERVE and WP:IMPERFECT which state our general principle that "Even poor articles, if they can be improved, are welcome." The nomination does not provide any particular reason to delete this notable topic and so the discussion should be speedily closed per WP:SK "The nominator ... fails to advance an argument for deletion" and WP:DELAFD, "It can be disruptive to repeatedly nominate a page in the hope of getting a different outcome." Pinging all the contributors to previous discussions pretty much guarantees a rerun of everything which has been said before. Andrew D. (talk) 11:43, 29 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment - :::As for the book, A History of Celibacy, written by Abbott, Elizabeth, she ADMITS that her view is very differes from the mainstream deffinition, as she stated that herself: (page 16-17) :

  I also drafted a definition that discarded the rigidly pedantic and unhelpful distinctions between celibacy, chastity and virginity, all of witch I used as key words in my research. Despite dry dictionary definitions they are, in the context of this book, synonyms. Risking tedium... I cite Webster's dictionary: ... celibacy is the state of being unmarried, especially that under a wow .

She admits from the beginning that she uses this word in her book differently. And this is only one view; her view. If this author and some few others wishes to use those terms contrary what is the usual, generally accepted definition, well, it is her book, her choice. But what she calls in her book non religious celibacy is actually not celibacy but chastity. She has a doctorate in 19th-century history from McGill University, not sexology or religion history. All this, if it should be added it should be done differently. Hafspajen (talk) 14:56, 29 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I've read that, in many ways celibacy, chastity and virginity are related as one often leads to another, but she specifically defines involuntary celibacy as a separate term dedicating an entire chapter to the concept, so I believe that supports my views. The fact she is a historian strength the notability of this topic showing it extends beyond sexology studies which has always been a sensitive area on Wikipedia. Valoem ^{talk contrib} 18:13, 29 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep, quoting what I said at DRV, looking at the sources presented, I think it's clear that we've got sufficient reliable sources to show this is not a neologism by our standards and meets WP:GNG. -- RoySmith (talk) 11:52, 29 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • As I mentioned below, I suggest reading the sources more carefully; aside from Donnelly's WP:FRINGE theories (which are the focus of the article), most sources are just a random assortment of people using the terms 'involuntary' and 'celibacy' together, with no indication that they're talking about the same thing (for instance, the entire 'historical usage' and most of the 'Definition and reasons' section fall under this, while the 'Contributing factors in modern involuntary celibacy' is uncited, and what is cited is cited to a single WP:FRINGE academic.) This is not an article on a single concrete subject, but an essay by Valoem that has collected as many different uses of those words as possible in an attempt to argue that Donnelly's theories have more academic support (and have attracted more academic attention) than they actually have. We do not and should not have an article on every single academic theory, especially ones that are as fringe-y as this. --Aquillion (talk) 19:08, 29 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete POV Fork from sexual abstinence (First sentence of the article says 'is a form sexual abstinence'). Alanscottwalker (talk) 12:45, 29 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete (or merge to sexual frustration) as the topic is being reified (as I have discussed elsewhere). The term itself is a neologism that has been used in primary sources by Donnelly, some news media and books, but has not appeared in Review Articles, indicating it has not been taken up in medical/psychological literature. It is a POV Fork as mentioned above - inherent aspects would be covered in Sexual frustration, Sexual abstinence and/or Human sexual activity. Psychological aspects would be covered in topics such as personality disorder, social phobia, intimacy or anxiety/mood disorders or other disorders that inhibit relationships/intimacy. This is the ethical issue I have with this article in that it will divert a reader's (and possibly sufferer's) attention from psychological issues to some reified neologism and possibly delay them getting appropriate help. Which I think sucks. And is also why we should be using medical sourcing rules on these topics that border (or lie within broadly construed) health/medicine. Ok, a question for @Valoem: (and @Sandstein: to watch) - how is involuntary celibacy different from sexual frustration? and if no different, which is the notable term? Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:37, 29 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Have you actually looked at sexual frustration!? It's just two sentences – a feeble stub – and so clearly not the last word on the subject. There is obviously lots of work to do here and so we shouldn't be deleting anything until such pages are in better shape. Andrew D. (talk) 14:36, 29 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• The page has existed for a long time in various forms (most recently as a userspace draft.) Nobody has ever been able to improve it in any way; indeed, this version is functionally identical to the version that was deleted in the last AFD, without any improvements. This is not surprising; it's an article on a neologism with almost no coverage in reliable sources. The aspects that are covered in those few sources are better handled under other articles rather than lumping it together under the neologism, while all the stuff that would be 'unique' to this is a mess of WP:OR consisting of every usage of the words 'involuntary' and 'celibacy' together that the people trying to push the neologism were able to turn up on Google. That's not an article, it's an essay; and it's clear at this point that the term is incapable of ever supporting a proper article. --Aquillion (talk) 20:12, 29 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep as a pass of WP:SIGCOV. If this is not a medical topic it does not need to meet medical SNGs. Saying that this should be deleted for failing WP:MEDRS is like saying that Moses should be deleted for failing WP:PORNBIO. sst✈ 13:43, 29 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• keep deleted there is no medical condition as involuntary celibacy, it is an internet/basement dwelling subculture thing and should be covered in that context. Sexual Abstinence or Sexual frustrationwould be a good redirect target. Not to closing admin that in the event of a no consensus close the default position is no article as that is the existing consensus. Spartaz ^Humbug! 13:45, 29 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep deleted - Considering what enormous impact Wikipedia has, no wonder that this neologism is fought for. I don't have Casliber's medical and science background, but I do have all the other background to be able to dicern a little here - philosophy and theology - and the term celibacy and a lot of confusion in defining the subject. Wikipedia is nowadays the number one for acknowledging any term, so - one must be careful. This is a WP:NEO that has some severe definition problems. If we do publish this article - it will blow - because these articles are often created in an attempt to use Wikipedia to increase usage of the term. It needs to be written - if it should be written with great care, and not the way it is suggested now. that would not be proper and cautious... and - basically - involuntary celibacy is NOT different from sexual frustration. Hafspajen (talk) 13:55, 29 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Wikipedia is not the number 1 site in this case. When I tried googling this just now, Wikipedia was down around #5. Other sites were higher such as WebMD, which has a feature on the subject which seems to have been reviewed by qualified professionals. Our job is to summarise what's out there, not to insert our own views on the matter. Andrew D. (talk) 14:31, 29 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

OK, nr 5 then... :) still high enough. Hafspajen (talk) 14:50, 29 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Other 1) What is the difference between *traditional celibacy* - versus - *voluntary or involuntary celibacy* ? This part: ^{Reasons for involuntary celibacy can often overlap with reasons for traditional celibacy, which can sometimes make it difficult to discern between voluntary or involuntary celibacy, as some feel pressured to state that the celibacy is voluntary out of fear of severe social repercussions or violence}

Secondly 2) past - Swiss Reformed theologian Karl Barth, was using the term in its classical form, e.g. to define unmarried persons in Christianity. Than means he was using it as its original meaning stands: as - celibacy as the unmarried state as the result of a sacred vow, act of renunciation, or religious conviction. To bad, because THAT'S not involuntary. That definition, right in the lead is not correct.

Third. 3) Why isn't the word celibacy linked?

Finally 4) - What's with the errors with the citations?

Hafspajen (talk) 14:12, 29 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete. This is something that has come about primarily from a few special snowflakes on the internet. Coverage is transient and not significant. Per User:Spartaz, the default position should be no article in the event of o consensus. Stifle (talk) 14:14, 29 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete, keep deleted, what is this doing back? I am pretty sure we already settled this before. HighInBC 15:11, 29 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete For the record: WP:I don't like it because it's a stupid expression because the proper meaning of celibacy is a voluntary condition. But don't delete because of that reason. There is no policy "WP is not stupid." However delete because the article is really about any way the two words together have been used in some sources. Of course there are many people, and have always been, who would like to have sex but are not. Their situations are better covered in other articles, not lumped together in this artificial construction. Borock (talk) 15:30, 29 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe the whole article could be included in whatever main article we have on "Human sexual intercourse" with one sentence: "Some people are not having intercourse for various reasons, although they would like to." Borock (talk) 15:45, 29 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep. This is a significant topic, especially in China where there are not enough women to go around. It's also significant to a lot of people I know who are paranoid about global warming (arctic methane causing sudden climate change, "near term human extinction" or NTHE) and peak oil leaving no future for their children. It's also significant that sexual frustration (call it whatever you want), can cause some people to lash out and kill others. I can't believe that we have to debate which topics to cover. It's bad enough that other controversial topics are carefully guarded and all manner of WP:XXX applied to keep those articles kosher -- wouldn't want to cause our readers to have cognitive dissonance. Raquel Baranow (talk) 15:41, 29 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that there are important issues, but I am still saying delete this article and keep the articles on the issues themselves: The China situation, sexual frustration, etc. Borock (talk) 15:45, 29 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

So no policy based rationale for delete then. Okay. Valoem ^{talk contrib} 17:18, 29 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I think "original research" and "neologism" apply.Borock (talk) 17:55, 29 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete, salt, and a two year halt on these discussions this article is a classic COATRACK that exists because of endless POV pushing. The subject of this discussion does not exist and is kept alive by an internet meme on reddit, PUA communities and 4chan. Also see Cas's comments above. --Guerillero | Parlez Moi 16:35, 29 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment Although there are discussions of being "involuntary celibate" throughout history, "incel" as a concept on its own is new. The article does not address the incel movement and therefore misses the entire reason for there being a WP article on this topic. It is that movement that has made this a topic on its own -- it has given it a name, a body of literature, and has been key in much of the "hook-up" culture. If it doesn't include discussions like Salon or Stuff then the article is far, far from honest. There is an incel "movement" -- and to talk about involuntary celibacy today without addressing that is entirely missing the point. This article should say that there have always been folks who were involuntarily celibate -- women as well as men -- but that today it has become a rallying cry for a men's movement that 1) has become big business and 2) has spawned violence. The article could contrast past approaches to involuntary celibacy with current ones, and surely someone has analyzed why today's approach is different from the past. The only reason to have an article is because it has become an issue with a name. LaMona (talk) 16:46, 29 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

LaMona The general consensus was to remove the content and leave discussion on the talk page. The readded per sources from Jimbo Wales (talk · contribs) and Spartaz (talk · contribs) on DRV. Valoem ^{talk contrib} 17:14, 29 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The general arguments for deletion appears to be WP:IDONTLIKEIT, sources cited within the article clearly defines the subject. If sources do not provide notability than we cannot have an encyclopedia at all. Valoem ^{talk contrib} 17:17, 29 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Mergeto Sexual frustration. That article is brief as stated above but gee, it will get longer when this one is merged. I agree that "celibacy" appears to have "voluntary" as part of its definition, so "involuntary voluntary refraining from sex" is a nonsensical oxymoron of an article title. Yet the phenomenon of people being frustrated because of a lack of sexual activity, whether because of psychological quirks, lack of charm, imprisonment, youth, old age, or medical conditions is a real one and has the quality and amount of sourcing to demonstrate notability. Edison (talk) 17:26, 29 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete Just a WP:COATRACK for rambling nonsense. Artw (talk) 17:29, 29 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Is it a Coatrack (I don't think so) or wide-ranging subject? Raquel Baranow (talk) 17:45, 29 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Make that Strong delete and salt, having read the discussion further. In addition to being of no value this article appears to be an attractive nuisance for time wasters. Artw (talk) 19:40, 29 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Artw (talk) 19:40, 29 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment Is it "nonsense" that there are people who at some point in their lives would like to have a sexual relationship but are frustrated in that desire? That seem to be the viewpoint of an" idontlikeit" faction. Presumably they have always been able to have sexual relations with someone any time they want, and for some reason it angers them that anyone else would deny that is so for anyone else. Have they never been horny with no relief for it but taking matters in their own hands? Edison (talk) 17:36, 29 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Your WP:OR is not relevant here, user. Artw (talk) 17:44, 29 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete, and this time really do so. How long should we be mocked by this POV-pusher? Until finally someone succumbs to his wishes to establish a neologism in enWP? This can be put in one or two sentences in the article about Sexual frustration, that#s it. This quarterly sham with the resurrection of this rubbish is just disgusting. Stop this extreme time wasting effort and bugger off, Valoem. Will you finally listen to the other editors? Grüße vom Sänger ♫ ^(talk) 17:46, 29 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep Per following reasons:

• Here is the significant coverage in reliable sources.
  1. Donnelly, Denise; Burgess, Elisabeth; Anderson, Sally (2005). Readings in Family Theory. SAGE. pp. 14–. ISBN 978-1-4129-0570-1.

     Page 14 has a section about involuntary celibacy. This is a citation of the study listed below ( Involuntary celibacy: A life course analysis)

     For them, celibacy is not a choice. Since involuntary celibacy is a relatively new area of sex research, few studies have dealt with the dimensions, etiology and consequences of this phenomenon ... we define as one who desires sex but has been unable to find a willing partner for at least six months [...] but after a certain length of time begin to worry.

  2. Sex and Society. Marshall Cavendish. 2010. pp. 113–. ISBN 978-0-7614-7906-2.

     The book notes:

     Involuntary celibacy:

     • In addition involuntary celibacy is used to describe individuals who have not chosen to be celibate but who find themselves for various reasons in the position of wanting to engage in sexual activity but not having a partner.

     • Anrenee Reasor (2013-10-29). "Reasor: Involuntary celibacy negatively affects college students". The University Daily Kansan. Retrieved 2015-12-28.

       The website notes:

       Reasor: Involuntary celibacy negatively affects college students This may not be news to college students, but some people remain sexually inactive through no choice of their own. A desire for sex exists, but no prospects do. There's a term for people who can't get laid: involuntary celibacy, or 'incel.' A longer definition explains: “Involuntary celibacy is chronic near-total or total absence in a person's intimate relationships or sexual intercourse that is occurring for reasons other than voluntary celibacy, asexuality, antisexualism or sexual abstinence.” I think we can all remember that person on our floor freshman year that was involuntarily celibate, no matter how hard he or she tried. But incel is not something to be taken lightly. Newscaster Christine Chubbock committed suicide live on air in 1974, and it was believed that incel was a root reason. As a 30-year-old virgin, she'd suffered unrequited crushes and severe depression.

     • Denise Donnelly, Elisabeth Burgessb, Sally Andersonb, Regina Davisb & Joy Dillard. "Involuntary celibacy: A life course analysis". The Journal of Sex Research Volume 38, Issue 2, 2001. Retrieved 2015-12-28.{{cite web}}: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)

       The study notes:

       Using a life course perspective, we explored the development and maintenance of involuntary celibacy for 82 respondents recruited over the I'nternet. Data were collected using an open‐ended electronic questionnaire. Modified grounded theory analysis yielded three groups of involuntary celibates, persons desiring to have sex but unable to find partners. Virgins were those who had never had sex, singles had sex in the past but were unable to establish current sexual relationships, and part‐nereds were currently in sexless relationships. These groups differed on dating experiences, the circumstances surrounding their celibacy, barriers to sexual activity, and the perceived likelihood of becoming sexually active. They were similar, however, in their negative reactions to celibacy. Pervasive in our respondents’ accounts was the theme of becoming and remaining off time in making normative sexual transitions, which in turn perpetuated a celibate life course or trajectory. (This study is peer review and cited over 40 times)

     • Elizabeth Abbott (2001). A History of Celibacy. Da Capo Press. ISBN 0-306-81041-7.

       The gives a two page description:

       Involuntary celibacy - Often celibacy is an unbidden state, imposed by circumstances, for instance in modern China with its skewed sex ratio or in apartheid bound South Africa where rigid work and travel permits could confine one's marriage partner to a white city, the other to a black township. The American Civil War, which killed of a generation of young men, also doomed their sisters to spinsterhood as maiden aunts, burdensome family charges, and underpaid schoolmarms.

     • Henry G. Spooner (1916). The American Journal of Urology and Sexology. Grafton Press. pp. 249–.

       This source is from 1916 and uses the term involuntary abstinence to describe the same thing, if naming is an issue that can be corrected:

       Considering the imperious nature of the sexual instinct and the consequences resulting from the failure to gratify it, we must consider the causes that lead to sexual abstinence. For our purposes we may divide sexual abstinence into two class: voluntary abstinence and involuntary abstinence. Involuntary abstinence to take the latter first results from causes beyond the individuals control and often without his knowledge.

     Edison and Sänger ♫ Here are sources showing a cohesive topic with significant coverage. Do you still feel this is disruptive? Artw we generally agree, am I making a mistake here? And if so what is wrong with the sources I provided. Donelly's work has been cited by multiple sources and has been peer reviewed. Valoem ^{talk contrib} 18:02, 29 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

     The Sex and Society mention is only passing. College Newspapers are never used as sources to establish the notability of a topic. Abbott 2001 has already been discussed at length how its reliability is questionable. And there is no link between what Spooner 1916 looks like grasping for straws. --Guerillero | Parlez Moi 18:14, 29 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

     Also, after some further digging, Donnelly et al. 2005 is a primary source and is not used to make claims of notability. --Guerillero | Parlez Moi 18:23, 29 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

     • Delete per Cas Liber. -Rsrikanth05 (talk) 18:22, 29 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
     • Strong delete and salt. The term itself is a neologism, but the current article is essay full of original research by Valoem, assembling every source which uses the words 'involuntary' and 'celibacy' together to give the artificial appearance that the term has academic meaning. Attaching eg. Valoem's collection of unrelated sources about the Ming dynasty to Donelly's WP:FRINGE opinions on the neologism itself as if they were talking about the same thing is WP:OR; and the entire article is essentially composed of such things. The few meaningful sentences that could be parsed out ("sometimes people are celibate involuntarily") belong in celibacy and are not sufficient to support an independent article, while Donelly's theories are not remotely high-profile enough to support their own article (again, they deserve at most a single sentence in celibacy, if that.) I would also like to ask that people stop restoring this article to Valoem's user-space; this is, by my reading, the third time that he's requested it there for discussion on something else, which ended up with it moved to mainspace for another AFD discussion. This version doesn't even have any significant changes from the version that was AFDed before; relisting it like this in hopes that one of its repeated AFDs will eventually fail to gain consensus is an abuse of process. At a certain point you have to drop this sort of issue per WP:DEADHORSE and accept that the community has decided that this is not a topic that can support an article. The repeated re-creations and attempts to go around the process on this mean that it requires salting, beyond just deletion. --Aquillion (talk) 21:38, 21 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

     Comment Cas Liber, To answer your question above, sexual frustration and involuntary celibacy are not the same thing. One can be sexually activity and still frustrated, one cannot be involuntary celibate and sexually active. Those sources above can all be used, these are some additional sources all defining the concept which is clearly notable:

     • Colette Bouchez. "Sexless in the City: Involuntary Celibacy". WebMD. Retrieved 2015-12-29.

       This study was reviewed by Michael W. Smith, MD

       One click around the TV dial, one flip through your favorite magazine, and it's hard to ignore: Sex seems to be everywhere -- with everybody doing it more often, with more partners, in more ways than ever before.

       But what if you're not one of those people having sex on a regular basis -- and particularly if you are someone whose life is void of virtually all sexual activity?

       If so, you may be part of a growing group of adults known as "involuntary celibates" -- otherwise healthy folks who want to have sex but can't make it happen in their lives.

       "These are often people who, for one reason or another, have put their sex life on hold -- maybe they were shy and plagued with social anxieties when they were young, or perhaps they were just concentrating on school and then their career -- or were saddled with other responsibilities or issues that took priority in their life at the time," says Philip B. Luloff, MD, assistant clinical professor of psychiatry, Mount Sinai Medical Center, New York.

       
       Sex Life on Hold By the time they decide to open their life to a partner, Luloff says they can feel so far behind their peers in social skills or even sexual prowess, it drives them further away from achieving their relationship goals.

       "You simply don't know where to begin -- so you just put off starting, and as time passes, and your feelings of frustration and isolation grow, self-esteem falls even lower, creating a vicious cycle of discontent that makes it even harder to find an intimate partner," Luloff tells WebMD

       Indeed, in a small but significant study published in 2001 in the Journal of Sex Research, doctors from Georgia State University found that folks who are involuntarily celibate are frequently afflicted with feelings of anger, frustration, self-doubt and even depression -- all invariably linked to living without sex.

       But while celibacy may be the hook upon which many of us can legitimately hang our cloak of discontent, psychiatrist and sex therapist Barbara Bartlik, MD, tells WebMD that for just as many people, living without sex may be more of a symptom than a problem... (continued)

     • Amanda McCracken (2015-05-16). "OPINION: Are we entitled to sex?". america.aljazeera.com. Retrieved 2015-12-29.

       Here is a article from Aljazeera explained the subculture of misogyny in attempts to prevent it

       Involuntary celibacy:

       • The incel mindset

         Many of the men who sent me nasty emails after I published my essay might be labeled “incels” (involuntarily celibate). Its most recent poster boy was 22-year-old virgin Elliot Rodger, who went on a murder spree last year in Isla Vista, California. Rodger felt spurned by the women who were having sex with other men on campus and entitled to get laid.

         Rodger may appear to be an outlier, but there’s a growing community of angry, sexually dissatisfied men who blame both women and other men for their situation. Rodger’s initials have become permanent glossary entries on men’s rights activism (MRA) websites. The Red Pill Movement, according to one MRA forum, seeks to spread awareness of the negative effects of “feminism, feminists and their white-knight enablers … and to seek truth no matter how painful or inconvenient the truth may be.” For these men the “truth” lies in getting laid, no matter the consequences. In today’s sex-positive society, as sex becomes increasingly synonymous with human rights, incels feel denied what they consider “rightfully” theirs.

         Does one woman have the right to tell another woman what isn’t sensually valuable or a wise investment? Incel-sympathizing turns sex into an entitlement, a mindset that bleeds into popular culture. Consider the scene from the film “Bridesmaids” in which Kristen Wiig’s character Annie, stranded on the road after her car dies, calls a casual hook-up buddy to pick her up. He does, only to suggest she give him oral sex in exchange for his kindness.

         “You can totally lie down in my lap if you want,” he says. “Just take a little lap nap … if you want … open for biz.” It’s an expectation we see in movies over and over: men putting in a certain amount of time with a woman and expecting sex as a reward.

       These are some sources from studies unrelated to Denise Donnelly

       • Alison Liebling; Shadd Maruna (17 June 2013). The Effects of Imprisonment. Routledge. pp. 94–. ISBN 978-1-134-01239-8.

         This is a study of Involuntary celibacy on prisoners by John Irwin and Barbara Owen cited by Alison Liebling and Shadd Maruna and distinctly uses the term involuntary celibacy.

         Another lasting effect of involuntary celibacy is a distortion in prisoners sexual tastes and desires. Irwin wrote about the impact of living in the monosexual prison world: "Being a convict was making voyagers out of us pictures of women became powerful stimulants one day I was walking down the tier and glanced down at a newspaper lying on the floor. I spied a picture of a woman's face that grabbed my attention I stopped picked up the discarded newspaper and stared at the face. She was overwhelmingly beautiful to me but then the ache set in deep in my gut. The possibility of being closed getting to know romancing a woman like this was completely absent.

       • Philip Gatter (1 January 1999). Identity and Sexuality: AIDS in Britain in the 1990s. Cassell. ISBN 978-0-304-33341-7.

         The book notes involuntary celibacy in regards to HIV:

         • ... or of not being able to cope with the emotional demands of living with someone whose Health might gradually deteriorate for a few there was an abiding sense of no longer being asexual mean that the risks however small, meant involuntary celibacy, or at the least that it would be difficult to find sexual partners while being honest about HIV status.

         These sources cannot be denied. Aquillion, I did not write this article it was written by Tokyogirl79 and can be found here, so please stop with the attacks. The source I provided clearly show the term is not OR, fringe, coattrack or NEO. This is undeniable the subject need massive expansion not deletion. According to Google Trends incel and involuntary celibacy are among the most searched terms people are going to come to Wikipedia to find out more about it. This is what an encyclopedia is for. Valoem ^{talk contrib} 19:31, 29 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

         The last two are unrelated uses of the term; again, this is what I was talking about again -- you're googling for any uses of the words "involuntary" and "celibacy" together, then trying to use them to construct your own personal essay on the subject. There's no indication that they're talking about the same thing as Donnelly's theories (as you admit), yet you're grabbing everyone who has ever used those words and throwing them, arbitrarily, into an article. That is original research. You've repeatedly tried to dig up sources on this, and repeatedly failed; all you've managed to do is dig up a bare handful of articles mentioning it as a neologism, plus a bunch of random uses of the words 'involuntary' and 'celibacy' next to each other, which you (and others, yes) have tried to use to write an original research essay on the subject, tying unrelated primary sources together in an attempt to lead the reader to a conclusion. I think you ultimately just have to realize that Wikipedia is not the correct place to push a neologism like this, as the repeatedly-successful AFDs on this article have shown. --Aquillion (talk) 20:06, 29 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

         No I also google incel which can only refer to this and the sources I provided define involuntary celibacy and celibacy due to involuntary reasons, I should mention that I was harassed off wiki regarding this subject, I've asked an editor in private whether this should be mentioned publicly. The anonymous message pertains to a political reason for this topic's suppression. The second issue this that the current claim suggest that no source can make this topic notable seems counter-intuitive to our GNG policies. It is a bit unusual to say any source documenting this subject is merely combining the two words, all the studies I've listed have under gone peer review. WP:MEDRS does not apply here because this is a social phenomenon that has been highly documented, this is not a medical condition. Why don't you compare the sources listed in the article celibacy and show how they are stronger than the sources provided. A good method is to show way this is a neologism, what sources are you looking for to determine a term is no longer NEO? And no I haven't failed every time the vote counter and arguments have favored inclusion. I can't beat a supervote the current goal appears to drag this out to the point editors become annoyed. It simply is a concept which should have never been deleted. Valoem ^{talk contrib} 20:31, 29 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

         • Comment: How many times must we discuss this topic? Should I copy and paste my previous reply (or replies) each time? I mean, most of our feelings have not changed on this topic. This constant debate is doing nothing but draining the community, and is a clear WP:FORUMSHOP violation. Consensus is usually to merge this article to the Celibacy article, to the Sexual abstinence article, which already addresses involuntarily sexual abstinence in the lead, to the Sexual frustration article, or to delete. Given how small the Sexual frustration article currently is, and that there is enough to state about involuntary celibacy, I disagree that this should be merged to the Sexual frustration article or otherwise significantly covered there. Cover it in the Sexual abstinence article and call it a day. I wouldn't even mind if it was covered in the Celibacy article, or if it exists as its own article; I don't see a huge problem with this article existing as its own article. And again, this topic is not a medical topic. Just stop all this repeat debating. Sighs. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 20:48, 29 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
         • Delete. 4th nomination? Seriously? Delete per Aquillion above, and also WP:DEADHORSE. I realize that some very determined people have an ideological interest in getting this fringe theory onto Wikipedia, but it would be nice if we didn't have to deal with this article anymore after this. Holdek (talk) 21:06, 29 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

         Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sexuality and gender-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 21:52, 29 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]