Involuntary celibacy

Involuntary celibacy (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

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This article, whose suitability as an article topic is contested for various reasons, is again relisted following discussion at Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2015 December 21. This is a procedural nomination, I am neutral.

To help the closing admin find a hopefully lasting consensus, please do not only "vote" for deletion or keeping, but express a clear preference (together with an explanation based on Wikipedia policies and guidelines) about whether, how and at which depth you would like the content associated with this topic, including the supposed "incel" subculture, to be covered on Wikipedia: whether as one or more standalone articles (with which titles?), or as part of other (which?) articles. Please also take note of the previous discussions listed here.  Sandstein  11:19, 29 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Speedy Keep The topic is clearly notable as A History of Celibacy has an entire chapter about involuntary celibacy which details various ways that this might arise; for example, young women might be forbidden to marry before their older sisters or apprentices might be forbidden to marry until they mastered their trade. The topic should therefore be kept in accordance with our editing policies such as WP:PRESERVE and WP:IMPERFECT which state our general principle that "Even poor articles, if they can be improved, are welcome." The nomination does not provide any particular reason to delete this notable topic and so the discussion should be speedily closed per WP:SK "The nominator ... fails to advance an argument for deletion" and WP:DELAFD, "It can be disruptive to repeatedly nominate a page in the hope of getting a different outcome." Pinging all the contributors to previous discussions pretty much guarantees a rerun of everything which has been said before. Andrew D. (talk) 11:43, 29 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep, quoting what I said at DRV, looking at the sources presented, I think it's clear that we've got sufficient reliable sources to show this is not a neologism by our standards and meets WP:GNG. -- RoySmith (talk) 11:52, 29 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete POV Fork from sexual abstinence (First sentence of the article says 'is a form sexual abstinence'). Alanscottwalker (talk) 12:45, 29 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete (or merge to sexual frustration) as the topic is being reified (as I have discussed elsewhere). The term itself is a neologism that has been used in primary sources by Donnelly, some news media and books, but has not appeared in Review Articles, indicating it has not been taken up in medical/psychological literature. It is a POV Fork as mentioned above - inherent aspects would be covered in Sexual frustration, Sexual abstinence and/or Human sexual activity. Psychological aspects would be covered in topics such as personality disorder, social phobia, intimacy or anxiety/mood disorders or other disorders that inhibit relationships/intimacy. This is the ethical issue I have with this article in that it will divert a reader's (and possibly sufferer's) attention from psychological issues to some reified neologism and possibly delay them getting appropriate help. Which I think sucks. And is also why we should be using medical sourcing rules on these topics that border (or lie within broadly construed) health/medicine. Ok, a question for @Valoem: (and @Sandstein: to watch) - how is involuntary celibacy different from [[sexual frustration? and if no different, which is the notable term? Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:37, 29 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep as a pass of WP:SIGCOV. If this is not a medical topic it does not need to meet medical SNGs. Saying that this should be deleted for failing WP:MEDRS is like saying that Moses should be deleted for failing WP:PORNBIO. sst✈ 13:43, 29 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• keep deleted there is no medical condition as involuntary celibacy, it is an internet/basement dwelling subculture thing and should be covered in that context. Sexual Abstinence or Sexual frustrationwould be a good redirect target. Not to closing admin that in the event of a no consensus close the default position is no article as that is the existing consensus. Spartaz ^Humbug! 13:45, 29 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep deleted - Hafspajen (talk) 13:55, 29 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]