AlanM1

Voice your opinion on this candidate (talk page) (17/7/6); Scheduled to end 18:30, 29 July 2014 (UTC)

Nomination

AlanM1 (talk · contribs) – Alan's been here since 2008 with no blocks or (as far as I can tell) no substantial user conduct/behavioral issues in the past; per WP:DEAL, that alone should qualify him for administrative tools. If he were going to break things, he would have done it before now; we shouldn't hesitate to trust Alan. The guy's participated in activities that require admin tools; although it clearly wasn't the first time, my first memory of interacting with him involved a set of pages that needed to be deleted — last September, Alan was filling CAT:CSD with numerous {{db-move}} requests because a large number of pages, such as Hamirpur district, were at the wrong titles and couldn't simply be moved over redirects. Aside from occasional obvious errors, he clearly was filing correct requests, demonstrating familiarity with numerous relevant policies and standards. Together with his six-year pattern of editing, it looks clear that he's ready for the tools. Nyttend (talk) 02:32, 22 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Candidate, please indicate acceptance of the nomination here: I accept, and would like to thank Nyttend for his suggestion. If accepted, I will, to the best of my ability, preserve, protect, and defend Wikipedia. —[AlanM1(talk)]— 14:43, 22 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Questions for the candidate

Dear candidate, thank you for offering to serve Wikipedia as an administrator. Please answer these questions to provide guidance for participants:

1. What administrative work do you intend to take part in?

A: I have run into the need for an admin in a number of areas in which I've worked, including page moves, editing of fully-protected templates, and user-related problems. I tend to be available at times that are rather thin (like U.S. overnight), and come upon vandalism and other violations, which would benefit from immediate admin action (i.e. blocks, revdel). It would be good to be able to take care of these things myself, instead of having to waste someone else's time. That is not to say that I'll "shoot first and ask questions later" – I try to remain aware of my level of knowledge and have no problem deferring to others or asking for help when I'm not sure of the correct course of action. I don't have plans to get involved in user drama unless required, at least not in anything that isn't an obvious decision.

2. What are your best contributions to Wikipedia, and why?

A: I believe my strength is my attention to detail, which allows me to spot things that others miss. I've done a lot of work on grammar and flow in poorly-written articles, but have also found issues in Good and Featured Articles. As a programmer, I've also enjoyed working on templates and would like to do more in that realm, especially with the power that Lua has added.

3. Have you been in any conflicts over editing in the past or have other users caused you stress? How have you dealt with it and how will you deal with it in the future?

A: I don't know if I'd call it stress – after all, it's not Real Life. My occasional beefs have been relatively minor and I try to take care to prevent escalation, as the situation dictates. If all else fails, I can walk away from a particular issue and not lose sleep over it. I add it to my "ToDo" list and may come back to it later when everyone's had a chance to think about things and we may be able to reach a solution; or I can just let it be, depending on how important I think it is to the wiki.

Additional optional questions from Mkdw

4. Do you actively participate in mop 'n bucket areas that do not require the use of the sysop tools (i.e. Recent changes, RFC, AFC, etc.)?

A: I joined the Account Creation Team in response to a plea for new members to help clear a backlog. I'm not currently active there, so I don't know what records are available, but perhaps one of their admins can share some stats.

I've also worked around the edges of admin (what's available without tools), including answering questions at the WP:HELPDESK, and participation in WP:ANI where possible.

A look at my contribs to User Talk (mostly of IPs) will show a lot of the anti-vandalism work.

Here's an example of a more involved IP vandalism issue that I helped with.

While I don't come across too many currently active vandals (they are mostly drive-by or longer-term problems), I count 16 reports to AIV in the last 23 months in my contribs to Wikipedia namespace.

5. Have you ever edited Wikipedia using another user name? If so, are you willing to disclose those accounts?

A: No, I have not.

Additional question by Dennis Brown

6. AFD performance is one of the most important metrics to me, but your experience is almost non-existent. Are there other experiences or words that would reassure those of us that consider AFD experience critical?

A: I generally believe deletion of an article to be the most extreme solution. I am familiar with, and have used, the criteria for speedy deletion, applying to the "obvious" cases (i.e. those that I would expect to WP:SNOW 90/10 or more if questioned). Speedies aside, other than for notability, or because it belongs as part of another article, I'd rarely want to delete an article, choosing rather to improve it (or have it improved).

I'll also note that I generally try to comment on my reasoning instead of just !voting, so looking at what I've written in the few I've done may reveal more than cold stats. Also, here are two examples that are not in the report:

• Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Lighting designer – I voted "Oppose", meaning Keep, but I'm guessing that's not a valid synonym. The result was Keep.
• Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Anshei Sfard (Louisville, Kentucky) – I voted Keep. The result was Keep. Not sure why this isn't in the list.

Additional question from BrownHairedGirl

7. In your answer to question 2, you explained that you would like to do more template editing. Please can you explain why you have not already applied for the Wikipedia:Template editor user right to allow you to do that.

A: No? I just hadn't gotten around to it, really. —[AlanM1(talk)]— 05:44, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Additional question by MusikAnimal

8. Could you elaborate on Q1? Specifically, what are the "user-related problems" you are referring to? Do you plan to handle any of the WP:ACSD requests?

A: I'd rather not get involved in user squabbles related to behavior, other than obvious, bright-line issues like threats and such. Having been on the user side of ACSD, it seems like something I can do well, so I would.

9. Could you provide some examples of what you consider your best work? Are there any articles you are particularly proud of? What about templates?

General comments

• Links for AlanM1: AlanM1 (talk · contribs · deleted · count · AfD · logs · block log · lu · rfar · spi)
• Edit summary usage for AlanM1 can be found here.

Please keep discussion constructive and civil. If you are unfamiliar with the nominee, please thoroughly review his contributions before commenting.

• Nyttend, would you reflect on your nomination statement, as it may give the wrong impression of the candidate's experience. You say, "Alan's been here since 2008" and "his six-year pattern of editing" which suggest an active and experienced user, yet they have only been actively editing since 2012. Edits before then were fairly sporadic, such as only 12 days in 2011. Oppose comments are picking up on the candidate's lack of experience and involvement, which appears to be at a dissonance with your nomination statement. The assumption is that when a respected admin nominates someone and says they have a six-year pattern of editing, that that means active and purposeful editing, which when the candidate's contribution history is examined doesn't seem to be the case here. SilkTork ^{✔Tea time} 20:26, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

Support

1. Meets my standards for tenure, edit count and what not. Excellent main space / project space balance. In addition this [1]impressive handling of a difficult user, and your quality answer to Q3, all assure me. Good luck. Pedro :  Chat  19:56, 22 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
2. ///EuroCarGT 20:09, 22 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
3. Support. Edit count fine. Q1 shows tech. 20 AIV is enough for vandal. I like to see more content in Q2 and Q3 (evidence/links!). (Part of Q3 raises an eyebrow.) Glrx (talk) 20:11, 22 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

   @Glrx: I clarified A3. Hopefully that was your concern? —[AlanM1(talk)]— 20:25, 22 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

   No. It's OK to be in a dispute and decide to walk away from it. It's also OK to have a todo list of articles that need to be fixed or expanded. I'm leery of the notion of "walking away" that includes a note to come back later — is that really walking away? The practice can be benign, but I know some now-banned editors who employed the tactic. (Re clarification.) Glrx (talk) 22:36, 22 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

   I want to be clear that it's not an "I'll be back" (a la Schwarzenegger) list – the purpose of walking away is to give both sides time to reflect. I may or may not come back, depending on how it looks with "fresh eyes". —[AlanM1(talk)]— 05:57, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

4. Support Based on the nominators recommendation, and the lack of any serious issues that I've seen. I prefer candidates with more experience in quasi-adminstrative areas, but will just urge AlanM1 to exercise caution (or even better, participate as a normal editor for awhile first) before using the admin tools in areas they are not already familiar with. Monty₈₄₅ 20:55, 22 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
5. Support per nom :-) Bbb23 tells me "You're supposed to do more than just nominate, Nyttend - it's usual to also support". Is this what's expected? Just asking for !votes from my peeps since Alan didn't do his selfie RFA, yo. Nyttend (talk) 23:17, 22 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
6. Support — Whilst more involvement within anti-vandalism areas such as AIV would have been great per the candidate's own admission that they encounter vandalism in the hours they're online – I see no major underlying problems with their editing and judgment (albeit a few minor errors, which they are quick to fix), and I'm satisfied with their answers to the questions, thus far. Alan, I wish you all the best! —MelbourneStar☆^talk 23:50, 22 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
7. Support Suitable temperament (very important, IMO), clean block log and a use for the mop. The candidate seems to understand the learning curve for adminship, and should do a good job. Miniapolis 01:48, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
8. Support. Has clearly shown a need for the tools, and is unlikely to break anything. I'm not concerned about the rather low number of edits (after all, quality >>> quantity), and the user does not say he wants to work in AfD, so the low participation in AfD does not bother me either. As Pedro mentions, that pie chart is just about ideal also, IMO. Candidate seems intelligent. StringTheory11 (t • c) 03:28, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
9. Support. I've taken a look at the candidate's template edits, and he easily passes the template-editor granting guidelines, so I can't see any reason to oppose based on him not having applied for the template-editor right before. Adminship also permits editing of some templates and other technical pages that the template-editor right does not, such as cascade-protected templates and MediaWiki messages, so there is good reason not to limit competent editors to the non-admin user rights. Temperament and tenure look good to me, and I'm not concerned about AfD participation seeing as the candidate hasn't said he wishes to work in that area. — Mr. Stradivarius ^{♪ talk ♪} 03:31, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
10. Support Seen AlanM1 a few times around wikipedia and seen nothing that makes me think they would be a bad admin. PaleAqua (talk) 03:51, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
11. I am convinced that this editor is sufficiently tenured for adminship. You don't need to have 10,000+ edits to be considered experienced, and I'd put quality over quantity anyday. Kurtis ^(talk) 06:23, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
12. Support - Nice answers. OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 08:08, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
13. Support Overall, I am fine with AlanM1 becoming an admin. Jianhui67 ^T★C 09:13, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
14. Support because I can't see any reason not to. Deb (talk) 11:52, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
15. Support Happy to support Brookie :) { - he's in the building somewhere!} ^(Whisper...) 15:13, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
16. Support The nomination and support votes are very convincing. A net positive considering the clean block log and generally good temperament. Minima© (talk) 16:53, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
17. Support per nom, Mr. Stradivarius, and answers/discussion by candidate. Yup, AfD work is weak, but I see no indication that is an area he is pining to work in, or that he would wield the mop in any way other than measured. His ability to work with templates makes this adminship a NETPOSITIVE. 78.26 _{(spin me / revolutions)} 17:32, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose

1. Oppose Less than ten edits in AfD unless I bungled my search. That is a very important area from my perspective since it gives us an idea of how a future Admin approaches article retention and deletion, as well as their grasp of guidelines and policies. This is not an irreparable problem though. Spend some time in AfD and come back in six months. -Ad Orientem (talk) 20:33, 22 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

   Hopefully not badgering, but your oppose seems to be based on an absence of evidence they'll do well, as opposed to actual evidence they'll do badly? Also the candidate states in Q1 they intend to use the bits for "page moves, editing of fully-protected templates, and user-related problems" none of which are relevant (or only tangentially so) to deletion. Pedro :  Chat  21:08, 22 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

   Not badgering at all. I appreciate your comment and for the record, you are mostly correct. When casting a !vote for a future admin I do indeed require evidence that they will do well since if we make a mistake, it's extremely difficult to unring this particular bell. While I appreciate the candidate's stated intentions with respect to where he will be mostly working, the tool box still comes with the 'delete article button.' He may, or may not ever use it. Once it's been given to him though we can't go back and say, "you said you wouldn't use that tool." So yeah, if he has it, I want to be as sure as I reasonably can be that should he choose to, he will use it judiciously. -Ad Orientem (talk) 21:24, 22 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

   (edit conflict)Pedro, I don't think describing an oppose rationale citing inexperience is necessarily done justice by calling it an oppose "based on an absence of evidence they'll do well". Experience is something earned and a widely accepted standard in many assessment processes. An editor with only one edit may then meet your criteria of no "evidence they'll do badly". That and experience are not mutually exclusive of each other. My counter argument to the oppose would be to point out that there are ways AlanM1 can show an understanding of policies as well as competence in applying them outside of AfD. Mkdw^talk 21:48, 22 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

   The above comment and the subthread that developed from it has been moved to the talk page at the request of Pedro. --Stfg (talk) 09:05, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

   I also want to see evidence that they will do well. Any new user can show a lack of evidence that they will not do well. I disagree with the premise of the nomination, a user can be a great editor since day 1 of Wikipedia, that does not mean they will be a good admin. Chillum 21:33, 22 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

   Thank you for your reply Ad Orientem; it's a perfectly fair reason to oppose (albeit that I disagree with it!) and I appreciate your expanded reasoning. Chillum - that's a bit of an unfair (if not slightly odd) reading of my comments. I'm not advocating we hand the tools to editors with three edits on the basis they "haven't screwed up so far". This is a tenured candidate with thousands of edits - deletion may just not interest them. Pedro :  Chat  21:38, 22 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

   I modified my comment when I realized my wording was ambigious. My original point was that absense of poor behavior as an editor is not evidence of good admin behavior, I guess I made it poorly. Chillum 21:40, 22 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

2. Oppose - Candidate is much too inexperienced. Total of 7,999 edits when I checked a minute ago. He has exhibited a Veteran Editor badge (requirement 8,000 edits) since February 24, 2014, when he had (checking his contributions) only about 7,000. Kraxler (talk) 03:25, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

   Comment: @Kraxler: Actually, he had 6500 edits on the ENwiki and 2800 on Commons (according to that edit), so that's more than enough. I don't really see why that would be an issue. Remember that a user's number of edits doesn't show their level of experience. MrScorch6200 (talk | ctrb) 04:55, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

   Please note that my edits are all manual (or slightly assisted with Twinkle, etc.), and that I tend toward grouping many changes together into a single edit instead of many individual saves. A lot of it is time-intensive copy editing, finding and checking cites, etc. —[AlanM1(talk)]— 06:17, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

   The answer to Q6 is not good. It shows that the candidate has no experience in this area, and that the candidate is unwilling to research before answering. Besides, in March (4 months ago) he voted "Oppose" in an AfD (Lighting designer), although that is not an option according to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion#How to contribute. In the other discussion (Anshei Sfard) stated a personal opinion, without citing a guideline, and not answering the concerns of the nominator, see also WP:NOTVOTE. Later also added "if there isn't a guideline that makes this clear, there should be" meaning that if the guideline doesn't support one's statement the guideline should be fixed so to fit one's opinion. Well, I think people should argue according to the guidelines, not demand guidelines according to their opinions. Kraxler (talk) 15:25, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

   Re A6, I never claimed experience in AfD, and am unaware that it's a hard requirement, or I'd have likely declined the nom. I did take the time to find two more votes that didn't get included, and asked to fix a third one where the closer used a syntax the report didn't understand. Assuming Dennis didn't want me to just invent experience I didn't have, I talked about what I did know, and my understanding of the concepts involved, which is about all I can do.

   As far as the syntax for voting, I don't see any clearly-defined list of options at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion#How to contribute, something that's always disturbed me. I assumed it was a free-form thing for this reason, and used a word that I (and others) routinely use in this type of thing. Perhaps that's the programmer in me, but I don't think it's unreasonable. Picking on syntax, when it's poorly (or not at all) defined, though ...? As far as a solution, it seems like a template, with an error thrown if not one of the defined choices, would solve the issue. I often see people vote using words that are unusual. Even an experienced closer did so, as mentioned above.

   Re Anshei Sfard, point taken – mea culpa. I was being lazy and didn't want to look up the relevant policy, making what amounts to the "common sense" argument instead. I try not to do this.

   I caught up to date by reading the diffs, and saw your original post regarding the service award. I'm glad you retracted it. For the record, my count is global, including deletes, based on WP:Service awards § What is counted.3F I smalled this because these things are, by definition, just wall decoration, and not meant to imply anything at all – just a little levity to make the experience more interesting. If I thought it would routinely lead to misunderstandings such as this, I certainly wouldn't bother with it.

   —[AlanM1(talk)]— 16:26, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

   Re "As far as the syntax for voting, I don't see any clearly-defined list of options at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion#How to contribute" - It says "Usually editors recommend a course of action (my bolding) in bold text, e. g., "Keep", "Delete", "Merge", "Redirect", "Transclude" or other view." That is IMO clear enough, either you vote by choosing any one of the bolded examples given (most used are "keep" and "delete") or you recommend any other action that could be taken concerning the article. I don't think that one can "oppose" or "support" an article, or the nominator, because, at AfD, voters are required to debate or state rationales to keep or delete, under the guidelines. It is also possible just to post a "comment" when you are in doubt about whether to keep or delete, and ask other users to clarify statements or consider additional guidelines. Kraxler (talk) 18:00, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

   I don't agree. The quote line can not be read as a finite list of terms to be used – they are in a list of examples that ends with "or other view". I don't think there is a finite list. If there were, the rules would/should be written differently (e.g. a bullet list with meanings), there would/should be an editnotice telling you what to do or, better, a template to use, etc. This would all be pretty standard elsewhere in WP, and so it's not an unreasonable conclusion that there is no finite list.

   Assuming random editors, and not just a group of "regulars", are supposed to be able to vote on RfDs, I believe we need to clarify this issue in the docs and with a template.

   As far as the meaning of "Oppose", the title is "Articles for Deletion" – "oppose" pretty clearly means opposing deletion. I used it because it's commonly used in other vote (and vote-like) situations (e.g. RfCs). —[AlanM1(talk)]— 19:52, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

3. Seems like a nice guy, but doesn't have enough experience where it matters to instill trust. The nominator playing the "no big deal" card so early in the nom statement does the candidate no favors. Townlake (talk) 04:45, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

   I brought this up because it's only the most relevant section of the most relevant policy. I do hope our closing bureaucrat ignores this vote, since we routinely ignore votes that challenge policies instead of implementing them. Nyttend (talk) 05:26, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

   Hm, an opinion that the candidate is inexperienced isn't necessarily a contradiction of the No Big Deal policy. Andrevan@ 06:20, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

   Hm indeed! The WP:DEAL policy does not say that giving the tools is no big deal. What it says is: Stated simply, while the correct use of the tools and appropriate conduct should be considered important, merely "being an administrator" should not be. (my italics) The nomination statement, like most mentions of WP:DEAL, seem to be calling for a casual approach to RfA !voting, which is not what the policy says or implies at all. The policy is saying that sysop status implies no great "authority". --Stfg (talk) 09:22, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

   Nyttend, please quote where I challenged a policy. If you can't, you owe me an apology. Townlake (talk) 12:59, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

4. Oppose Unless I completely muffed my checks this user hasn't created that many articles for his length of time on Wikipedia. Although it first appeared as he had, it turns out most are just redirects. I would like to see him more involved in the creating of articles. If I am wrong please tell me. -- NickGibson3900 - Talk - Sign my Guestbook 07:06, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

   Creation of articles is not something I'm interested in doing, or even necessarily good at. I'm better at editing/polishing/categorizing existing work. IMO, that's what makes WP appealing – people are free to choose their work, something we often don't get to do in our real jobs and lives. —[AlanM1(talk)]— 16:50, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

5. Oppose The candidate's presentation does not provide any evidence that he is qualified to conduct administrator duties. And Adoil Descended (talk) 15:02, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
6. Oppose Not enough AfD participation. AfD is an important part especially in deleting articles. He has only been active for about 2 years and just because he joined in 2008 and doesn't have any blocks doesn't mean he is ready for the mop. Just by that standard I could be a admin. JayJay^{What did I do?} 17:05, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
7. Oppose as pretty much unexperienced - not enough AFD participation & Only been active for 2 years despite registering 6 years ago. –Davey2010 • (talk) 20:51, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Neutral

1. At least for now. The lack of AfD participation is concerning, and less than 8,000 edits in six years is not too active (but this is still plenty and will not garner an oppose from me). United States Man (talk) 20:56, 22 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
2. I would like to see evidence of participation in admin related areas. Things like AfD and other discussions that an admin eventually closes allow me to better judge the users understanding of policy. If such examples are presented I will reconsider my position. Chillum 21:30, 22 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
3. I'm not concerned about a lack of participation specifically in AfD, but as others have stated, I would like to examine more thoroughly the areas of custodial maintenance AlanM1 has participated in to gain and understanding of their judgement and how they would handle the tools. Mkdw^talk 21:52, 22 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
4. As stated above, there needs to be participation in AfD for my !vote and a higher activity level would do well. MrScorch6200 (talk | ctrb) 04:49, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
5. For now - I'm not agreeing with most of the opposing nor most of the supporting votes here. Seems like a really nice guy, but I'm not getting a warm and fuzzy feeling about this one, and the lack of AFD is worrisome. The last candidate had similar issues and agreed to mentoring. The problem is that we have no way to tell how the candidate looks at deletions, or that he understands our policies on them at all. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 13:17, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
6. Wavering. Not enough AfD experience or solid content contributions in terms of article creation/improvement (AFAICS editor's contributions in this area are all stubs/lists). The former is key, IMHO, to demonstrate the necessary understanding of policy required for the tools and the latter would be a bonus. If I could see some examples of work on good/featured articles or a couple of DYKs that might convince me otherwise.  Philg88 ^♦talk 16:13, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

   I haven't kept track of which articles I've contributed to were FA/GA at that or some other time. I do remember having worked on getting Operation Frequent Wind up to GA. My contribs do include a lot of article copy-editing/citing/maint-tagging, though often to articles that are perhaps less "popular", and not the focus of the FA/GA/DYK tracks. Also, list articles are not always trivial. List of human stampedes in Hindu temples, for example, took a fair amount of work to clean up and cite. I've also done a lot of work on List of colors A–F etc., and have a rework of them in progress. —[AlanM1(talk)]— 17:26, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]