Cannabis Ruderalis

thcscience_admin
Browse history interactively
← Previous editNext edit →
Content deleted Content added
VisualWikitext
RobinBnn (talk | contribs)
349 edits
→‎Degree: new section
Line 139: Line 139:
::::Absolutely; a salient and important reminder. [[User:BlueSalix|BlueSalix]] ([[User talk:BlueSalix|talk]]) 08:21, 29 January 2014 (UTC)
::::Absolutely; a salient and important reminder. [[User:BlueSalix|BlueSalix]] ([[User talk:BlueSalix|talk]]) 08:21, 29 January 2014 (UTC)
::::: I think the proposal is good and support its insertion. Accreditation is standard in the US, that was not accredited its important to mention. [[User:RobinBnn|RobinBnn]] ([[User talk:RobinBnn|talk]]) 14:37, 29 January 2014 (UTC)
::::: I think the proposal is good and support its insertion. Accreditation is standard in the US, that was not accredited its important to mention. [[User:RobinBnn|RobinBnn]] ([[User talk:RobinBnn|talk]]) 14:37, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

== Degree ==

The accreditation status of Pensacola is covered in [[Pensacola Christian College]]. It is beyond question that the egrees awarded prior to 2013 were not acrcedited. I'm puzzled as to why there is such fierce determination to remove this obvious fact, especially since th eissue of unaccredited degrees in government was the subject of a substantial inquiry, Operation DipScam. It is clearly a matter of pressing public concern, especially when legislators have unaccredited degrees from fundamentalist schools that teach creationism as fact. It's a legitimate concern. <b>[[User Talk:JzG|Guy]]</b> <small>([[User:JzG/help|Help!]])</small> 15:29, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

Revision as of 15:29, 29 January 2014

District

I transferred the map of the Fifth Congressional District of Washington from George Nethercutt because, after all, he's not using it anymore. Nevertheless, a portrait of McMorris seems more appropriate here. --Calton 07:02, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)

POV insertion

The following was inserted in the article:

McMorris has taken $5,000 from Tom DeLay's ARMPAC.
McMorris voted with Tom DeLay 98% of the time between Jan. 1 2004 and March 31 2005.
McMorris voted to weaken the ethics rules in a move that many say served only to protect Tom DeLay.
When Republicans realized it was "impossible to win the communications battle" over the gutted ethics rules, McMorris flip-flopped and voted to put the old rules back into place.
When Democrats offered a solution to clean up the House by strengthening ethics rules, McMorris voted twice to make sure it never even came to an up or down vote.

This turned the article into a POV piece. -- Jonel | Speak 13:23, 7 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Are these not facts? Aren't there enough references to back this up? In Wikipedia, a point of view or POV is one way of looking at an issue. Wikipedia seeks a neutral point of view by including all relevant POVs while explicitly attributing them to those who hold them. If the whole article is made POV as a result of the insertion of a couple of facts, then please look at balancing the article and tell the other side of the story. Perhaps McMorris returned some of the dirty money or donated it to charity. Maybe as a freshman she did not know what ARMPAC is all about. Please add your point of view to correct what you don't think is fair and balanced about these facts.Kgrr 01:01, 18 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
I placed the section in the talk page because it unbalanced the article. If you can't write a balanced article, please do not turn one into a biased piece. Campaign finance is not something for which I have any stomach, and I'm not going to go searching for balancing facts for all of the politicians whose articles you've edited.
Also, even if balanced, the section still has large issues. First, DeLay no longer faces charges for conspiracy. Please remove that from every bio you have listed it on, as it is not true. Second, "McMorris voted to weaken the ethics rules in a move that many say served only to protect Tom DeLay" is a use of weasel words. Third, words such as "gutted" and "flip-flopped" are not at all useful in an NPOV encyclopedia entry unless part of someone's quote. Fourth, please provide a citation for the quote about the communication battle. Fifth, "McMorris voted twice to make sure it never even came to an up or down vote" is an intentionally misleading statement that plays upon the average reader's ignorance of standard Congressional procedures.
The article as it stands now is *not* NPOV. Please either balance it or move the POV parts to the talk page until they can be balanced. — Jonel | Speak 03:12, 18 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

DeLay

per compromise with editor Roma

Former House Majority Leader Tom DeLay, who faces felony charges for money laundering campaign finances, helped finance McMorris's campaign with a $5000 from ARMPAC, DeLay's political action committee. [1] McMorris has not returned the money or donated it to charity, despite calls from Democrats to do so. Republicans say that the charges against DeLay are politically motivated because prosecutor Ronnie Earle has a history of unsuccessful indictments against political enemies of both parties such as Kay Bailey Hutchison (R-TX), and because it has been widely reported that Earle had to shop the charges to multiple grand juries because one refused to indict. [2] [3] —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bachs (talk • contribs)

This was added because the added statement about Tom Delay is an unproven allegation that is used to make the member of congress guilty by association. Especially when there is much evidence that Ronnie Earle's indictments are politically motivated. You cannot include one side of an unproven allegation and not include the other, to do so would be unfair and biased. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bachs (talk • contribs)

Voting record

More than half the article is a mainly unsourced "voting record." Wikipeidia is a list of information. If particular votes are notable they should be addressed with descriptions. It was a copyright-violation of *McMorris' voting record maintained by the Washington Post.Arbusto 02:09, 30 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Name

Cathy was recentoy married and took a double last name. the clerk of the house website even has her lister as Cathy McMorris Rodgers. should we change it here--Bohouse 18:32, 24 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I've done it. We should ALWAYS use people's proper names. Alamar2000 01:23, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Why is there no indication of her political positions here?

Why are these excluded? They are usually included in other Congressional members articles. Herp Derp (talk) 20:54, 23 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Because if you go through the history of the page, you'll see Washington DC and government Seattle IPs (or WP:SPA) removing anything critical. 198.49.222.20 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log),for example, replaced "Cathy Rodgers did not support the continuation of the 1994 Violence Against Women's Act" with "McMorris Rodgers championed economic policies that would create jobs." When an editor pointed out she has spent most of her adult life as a "career politician," 146.129.133.130 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) an IP that only edits the Rodgers' page, removes it and calls her an "Orchardist". That IP is listed as belonging to "King County Gov" (that is in Seattle).
Or mentions that her undergraduate degree is not accredited is removed without justification, by an Washington DC IP that only made two edits; both being on this page.
Seriously, look at the history of the page. Anything critical that gets added, is promptly removed by an IP from Washington DC, Seattle government IP or a WP:SPA. I think this should be investigated further. Some examples:
Someone in the DC area and someone working for the government in Washington state doesn't like this page to have negative material. One area in particular that the government IP and DC IP doesn't like is the mention her undergrad degree came from an unaccredited fundamentalist school. There are more examples of some this on the page, I only went back a few years. RobinBnn (talk) 22:24, 24 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
To answer the original question differently: perhaps WP:FART applies? Positions are only worth noting if secondary sources claim they're worth noting. Drmies (talk) 01:16, 25 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Also, RobinBnn, thanks. Drmies (talk) 01:25, 25 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Washington DC IP white-washing this page and her religious alma mater

I'd like to point out that 67.182.141.126 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) is white washing this page and her alma mater Pensacola Christian College. She is scheduled to give the State of the Union response. Six minutes after the IP's last edit, Jocks175 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) made his/her first edit on Wikipedia which continues in the same manner of removing properly sourced material.

The IP over the last several months has removed negative information, such as Rodgers "vot[ing] against the Lily Ledbetter act, which is aimed at protecting women from pay inequalities in the workplace" while he/she adds in material about the birth of her child or where she attends church.

I am bringing this to editors' attention as that has been making misleading edits and removing WP:RS without justification. This must stop. RobinBnn (talk) 21:34, 24 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

See the above section for a list of Washington DC IPs and Washington State government IPs white-washing the page. RobinBnn (talk) 16:09, 25 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
This is a great catch RobinBnn. I have recently encountered a similar problem (whitewashing) with a US-G member (on the Democratic side, but no less inappropriate). Unfortunately, I lost that struggle because they were far too committed to whitewashing but I'm game to get into this one. I support reinsertion of the reference to the Ledbetter material - this was a well-publicized piece of legislation and including it is fundamental to a good and comprehensive WP article on a sitting member of Congress. BlueSalix (talk) 18:45, 28 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Pensacola Christian College

Mention of it needs to be changed as it is now accredited but wasn't at the time. Dougweller (talk) 10:07, 25 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed. I cited The Chronicle of Higher Education on its uniqueness with rules and lack of accreditation, and then mentioned 2013 TRACS accreditation. The type of accreditation does need mentioned because TRACS accreditation is not regional accreditation, and many employers and universities don't recognized the credits. RobinBnn (talk) 15:30, 25 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Could we delete the line "one of the strictest" ... my first impression by that phrase in the context of an academic institution is it's one of the most rigorous, but apparently they literally mean "strict" as in draconian punishments being meted out. (Or am I misunderstanding this?) BlueSalix (talk) 18:50, 28 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Unless there are sources mentioning the relevance of the schools accreditation, this information is not relevant and is a BLP issue as the only reasonable purpose appears to be an attempt to speak of the subject in a negative light. Now if the NYT were to mention the accreditation in conjunction with Rodgers, this would be ok.Two kinds of pork (talk) 05:30, 29 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The material appears neutrally worded and well-sourced, but it is inappropriate for this article. The details of her alma mater belong in the article on her alma mater and don't really have any bearing on her biography unless we have a secondary source that highlights some direct significance to her. Gamaliel (talk) 05:40, 29 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The single most important aspect of an institution of higher education is accreditation. It is what separates a school from a diploma mill. There is no question that PCC was unaccredited when McMorris attended. The source is The Chronicle of Higher Education, a publication that is very reputable on higher education, and discusses PCC's lack of accreditation. A source doesn't have to mention McMorris to be included in wiki article about McMorris. As you have seen, at least four editors agree with inclusion. RobinBnn (talk) 05:41, 29 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
There is no question that The Chronicle of Higher Education is a first-rate source, and I do not question it. I question the relevance of this material to McMorris. Gamaliel (talk) 05:44, 29 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I completely agree. If the NYT, for example, made the connection that she attended a school that was uncredited, well then it's fair game.Two kinds of pork (talk) 05:46, 29 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Accreditation is an important issue. It is relevant and sourced. I can repeat myself as well. RobinBnn (talk) 14:46, 29 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

One of three female U.S. Representatives from her state?

Does the lede really need to mention she is "one of three female U.S. Representatives from her state"? It really seems out of place in the introduction and I'm not even sure its worth mentioning in the article. Whether she is one of three, one of four, one of six, one of nine, or eight of eight, it doesn't give substance to any point. RobinBnn (talk) 16:03, 25 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I think it should stay- Washington has one of the highest male-to-female ratios in the House (not to mention being one of the first states to have 2 females serve as Senators at the same time) and both Rodgers and Jaime Herrera are noteworthy and most media recognizes her as "the most powerful ***women*** in the House." PrairieKid (talk) 16:55, 25 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Fair enough, but the article doesn't say that as it is currently worded. If you want to mention "Washington has one of the highest male-to-female ratios in the House" it belongs under her "U.S. House of Representatives" section, not the lede. That she is a Republican leader belongs in the lede and doesn't need to buried in a statement that she is "one of three female U.S. Representatives from her state". RobinBnn (talk) 17:13, 25 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, I (slightly) disagree with PK. While I think that's worthwhile to include somewhere, it seems very wordy. Also could we quantify that WA has one of the highest male-to-female rations in the House? There may be a source I just didn't see - if so, I apologize, but could you post it again? I'm not really passionate on this point one way or the other, though, so if you think we need to include I don't want to get in the way of progress and won't object! Either way, great work on improving this article RobinBnn and PrairieKid! BlueSalix (talk) 23:31, 28 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Gun bill

The section where the article mentions Rodgers support for a guns bill is wildly POV, and takes the source out of context. I'd remove it entirely per BLP, but I'd like to hear suggestions on how to improve it first.Two kinds of pork (talk) 06:00, 29 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Weak Delete I strongly question whether it's POV, however, I would say - after reading the original source and searching for additional coverage of this specific piece of legislation - that it is a case of WP:UNDUE as the bill appeared to be a technical, rather than ideological, statute that was not exactly the subject of sustained attention or coverage; in fact, the original sources appears to be a one-off story. On that basis I will support delete, but would be open to reversing that position if someone can present compelling evidence to show that this was an important bill that received a lot of attention. BlueSalix (talk) 06:10, 29 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks to Gamaliel, who fixed this. I'd be more comfortable if this were "improved" even further by paraphrasing the source as to the strange bedfellows the bills supporters appeared to make, and the claim that supporters sought alignment with federal laws.Two kinds of pork (talk) 06:12, 29 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Frankly, this seems to happen a lot with politicians from both aisles. Their record of accomplishments is hand picked to make them look like cartoon villains straight out of central casting. In writing and/or improving this article, we need to highlight those things for which she achieved wide attention. I'm unclear if a vote to cut $70 million in a state with a $15 billion budget, or her vote on a gun law that only received one article of mention, are things for which she was widely known. I'm sure the Seattle Times or Spokesman-Review have a pre-election profile of her; we should locate and find that to identify 2-3 points of legislative accomplishment or controversy, instead of independently deciding which merits inclusion. BlueSalix (talk) 06:26, 29 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I agree, these two bills have undue emphasis. I'm starting to smell a rat. While one editor is concerned about whitewashing, I'm starting to be concerned about this being a hit piece. Two kinds of pork (talk) 06:39, 29 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I wouldn't go that far, this is just the result of editing by committee. I added a little bit more a moment ago, please give me your thoughts. (I'm not entirely sold on my own edits; we really need a "overview" RS that gives a perspective on her whole career instead of just picking up an article here or there and plugging it in. At the same time, of course, it's not our job to polish or burnish her credentials. If she was known for engaging in reckless legislating we need to incorporate that, it just seems like we're choosing obscure pieces of bad legislating and elevating it to "she was known for" status.) BlueSalix (talk) 06:45, 29 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Some of the sources were taken out of context to put Rodgers in a negative light, but I'm coming here from the BLP board, so perhaps I'm biased. Though you have made some excellent suggestions on how to bring this article into balance. Thank you, and I'll look at this more tomorrow.Two kinds of pork (talk) 06:55, 29 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Two kinds of pork, You say its not relevant and POV as reasons to remove. But you have one editor who says its not POV and another who writes it is very relevant and changed the wording from the quotes in the newspaper. For the record, I'm fine with its inclusion. RobinBnn (talk) 14:44, 29 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Education Paragraph

Currently reads:
In 1990 she earned a BA in Pre-law from Pensacola Christian College and earned her Executive MBA while serving in the Washington State Legislature from the University of Washington in 2002. According to The Chronicle of Higher Education, Pensacola Christian College is "one of the strictest" schools in the country and since its founding was unaccredited until 2013 when it received national accreditation from Transnational Association of Christian Colleges and Schools.
I have a couple issues: (1) We don't need to specify TCHE if we're including an inline citation to it, (2) "one of the strictest" gives the false impression it's rigorous, (3) the entire paragraph is cumbersome.
Can I suggest this?
In 1990 she received a B.A. in Pre-Law from Pensacola Christian College, a then-unaccredited liberal arts college in Florida, and, in 2002, earned an Executive MBA from the University of Washington.
Thoughts? BlueSalix (talk) 06:59, 29 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Mentioning the accreditation at all is original research/synthesis unless there's an independent source discussing its accreditation in her context. NorthBySouthBaranof (talk) 07:01, 29 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
You know, you're absolutely right, NorthBySouthBaranof. I hate to have the fact that she went to an unaccredited school obfuscated because I think that's important to note so the word "college" doesn't become genericized on WP, but, it sadly appears there are no NPOV RS discussing its accreditation status. As long as we link to the PCC article, I think your amended text seems fine and fair. BlueSalix (talk) 07:09, 29 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
And you know, on a personal basis, I agree - but policy trumps my personal feelings. NorthBySouthBaranof (talk) 07:48, 29 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Absolutely; a salient and important reminder. BlueSalix (talk) 08:21, 29 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I think the proposal is good and support its insertion. Accreditation is standard in the US, that was not accredited its important to mention. RobinBnn (talk) 14:37, 29 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Degree

The accreditation status of Pensacola is covered in Pensacola Christian College. It is beyond question that the egrees awarded prior to 2013 were not acrcedited. I'm puzzled as to why there is such fierce determination to remove this obvious fact, especially since th eissue of unaccredited degrees in government was the subject of a substantial inquiry, Operation DipScam. It is clearly a matter of pressing public concern, especially when legislators have unaccredited degrees from fundamentalist schools that teach creationism as fact. It's a legitimate concern. Guy (Help!) 15:29, 29 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special%3ADiff%2F592971347

Leave a Reply