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"Clashes" indicates two sides fighting more or less equally. Can we change this to "raids", a more one-sided term. My understanding is that military and police armed with firearms and tear gas attacked protesters armed with sticks and rocks. "Massacre" is probably too strong a word at this point because it does not seem to have been widely used in the press. Jehochman ^Talk 11:49, 15 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

There's reports and videos of some of the protestors firing back with automatic weapons. Some of them were confiscated after their arrest. But they appear to have been a minority, and only responding to attacks by the security forces. "Raids" as a title fits. --Harizotoh9 (talk) 13:11, 15 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I would also add "14 AUgust 2013 Egyptian raids" as there will be repercussions of more violence TIED to this in the coming days in August, so we should clarify when it all began. Then the "aftermath" section can cover it. Also don't gorget the Aftermath of the coup page will also carry other details. So this separate event needs to indicate it happened on the 14th.(Lihaas (talk) 13:27, 15 August 2013 (UTC)).[reply]

I agree, 'August 2013' suggest we are discussing a much wider angle here. So this should be renamed to August 2013 Egyptian 'clashes' or 'protest', which resulted in a raid in 14 august. — Preceding unsigned comment added by PLNR (talk • contribs) 01:27, 16 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

With every WP page for a major world event, there's a rush to add a huge list of "World reactions". Invariably these reactions are non-committal and say little. "We feel bad for the loss of life blah blah blah". They add very little to the article, take up huge space, and say the same things over and over again. They should be summarized, with more space given to the most important.

The section for the USA's reaction should be given more prominence since they give 1.5 billion in aid to the military and have said that this is under review. That's actually something meaningful. --Harizotoh9 (talk) 15:23, 15 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I would say that countries near Egypt would count more than a country that does not even neighbor Egypt. Not to mention that focus on the aid might be non netural. --Super Goku V (talk) 21:12, 15 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Should most of them be erased or added to a new article just for reactions? ComputerJA (☎ • ✎) 00:12, 16 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

We can add the reactions by Countries to a new article just for them and leave the local reactions and major organizations like the UN. --Super Goku V (talk) 01:06, 16 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Sure, though I am afraid it might get deleted. The Reaction to the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting barely made it because it was considered an "exceptionally compelling case". Your call, but thanks for the reply. ComputerJA (☎ • ✎) 01:33, 16 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Then it looks like option B is the next idea. Leave only the ten to fifteen countries whose reactions are decided to be beneficial to the article or are important enough to remain. --Super Goku V (talk) 08:33, 16 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I really don't like having a "Reactions to" article for every single world event. It's very silly. We don't need full quotes from most of these countries reactions. We can simply summarize. What I propose:

• Keep the reactions of Egypt's neighbors. Summarize their contents, don't always need full quotes.
• Keep the reactions of the UN, and other major international bodies. Try to summarize and reduce size.
• Keep USA's response, as they have close ties and give aid
• For the other countries, simply say something like "Dozens of other countries, such as Germany, France and Sweden condemned the crackdown"
• Possibly keep Bahrain's reaction, simply because I think it's the only one in support of the crackdown.

--Harizotoh9 (talk) 12:18, 16 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I removed the two countries whose reactions were delivered via twitter. If they're not even going to bother releasing a professional official statement, I don't think it should be listed. --Harizotoh9 (talk) 12:21, 16 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Its blatantly POV to select what is notable. Its encylopaedic to mention what is cited to RS. That's for the reader to choose.

taking up space is irrelevant, it does not cross WP:Article size.

"I really don't like having a "Reactions to" article " See WP:IDONTLIKEIT and this fits in perfectly as its explicitly said that "I don't klike" and the user arbitrarily removesd reactions! AND "more prominence" is a POV-push. WP doesn't decide notability.!(Lihaas (talk) 16:08, 16 August 2013 (UTC)).[reply]

• Looks like the government has been warning protesters to disperse, for weeks.

• Security officials in charge of riot police units said they had been given notice Sunday to prepare their forces to cordon off the Rabaah site and another protest across town near Cairo University in Giza. Reports emerged of units coming to Cairo from around the country to take part in the operation.

• The security forces had planned to form cordons around the two sites as early as dawn Monday, allowing protesters to leave but preventing others from getting in, to minimize casualties before using water cannons and tear gas, officials told The Associated Press.

• Two days before the raid, news leaked that police were going to cordon off access to the sit-in sites early Monday, protesters took to the streets by the tens of thousands, and many made their way into the protest camps.

• After thousands streamed in and swelled the size of the sit-ins, however, security officials became concerned about the increased chance of bloodshed, and they decided not to move on the camps. "We were stunned by the masses" who came to the camps, one military official told the AP.

• The Interior Ministry has depicted the encampments as a public danger, saying 11 bodies bearing signs of torture were found near both sites. Amnesty International has also reported that anti-Morsi protesters have been captured, beaten, subjected to electric shocks or stabbed. At least eight bodies have arrived at a morgue in Cairo bearing signs of torture, the human rights group said.

• Protesters have been fortifying the sit-ins camps. In Rabaah, men with helmets, sticks and what appeared to be protective sports equipment guarded barricades made of sandbags, truck tires and bricks. They have also built three concrete waist-high barriers against armored vehicles.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=211244264 — Preceding unsigned comment added by PLNR (talk • contribs) 02:53, 16 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hi everyone,

Someone should add the death toll which was given by the Ikhwan (2600 protesters killed) in the infobox. It may seem to you unrealistic, but if you want to be balanced and fair, you have to mention the two numbers.

Good bye. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.73.222.31 (talk) 15:05, 16 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Why is there a military conflict infobox (right hand side) in this article? This is inappropriate given that there aren't two militaries opposed to each other, or even a guerilla group opposed to a military. Its a military opposing a political/religious group. In fact, this event resembles a massacre by most definitions although many news sources are choosing not to use this term. Massacre artciles don't have military infoboxes. But this is getting into another subject, article naming, which I don't want to address now. This box should be removed.

Whoever added the box, if you wish, please explain why you did so and how this conforms to practice in other wiki articles. Thank you.Furtfurt (talk) 16:46, 16 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

'Egyptian civil war' on the authority that ]http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/08/16/egypt-coup-civil-war/2665313/ "Egypt fits the dictionary definition of a civil war, or a war between two geographical or political factions of the same nation"".HighIntellectual (talk) 23:04, 16 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

(I moved comment above from another talk page). I don't see that reliable sources in general refer to this as a civil war, so I don't think Wikipedia should either. One statement that this is or may be a civil war is not enough, if most media don't refer to it as such. We should be somewhat careful here. Regards, Iselilja (talk) 23:22, 16 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

• There is already another section, dealing with title change, so I don't see why you decided to rename the article based on some loose definition, without any discussion/consensus, with this section being an after the fact thing. Also this current-event article, linked from Wikipedia main-page, so please revert and start an official vote for rename to gain consensus. --PLNR (talk) 23:40, 16 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]