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::[Wambach]'ll be joined in the new league by all her American teammates and by Canada captain Christine Sinclair. '''But not all the players will be able to support themselves just from their soccer income.'''<p>"Where I think we went wrong in the past, and probably in both scenarios, is that we started off too big, where our salaries were too high," she said. "I think that we have to take what we can get, and '''some of the players are probably unfortunately going to have to have other jobs''', which in my opinion isn't hopefully the long vision, the long-sighted vision of where we want to go." (my highlighting) |
::[Wambach]'ll be joined in the new league by all her American teammates and by Canada captain Christine Sinclair. '''But not all the players will be able to support themselves just from their soccer income.'''<p>"Where I think we went wrong in the past, and probably in both scenarios, is that we started off too big, where our salaries were too high," she said. "I think that we have to take what we can get, and '''some of the players are probably unfortunately going to have to have other jobs''', which in my opinion isn't hopefully the long vision, the long-sighted vision of where we want to go." (my highlighting) |
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Clearly Ms Wambach hopes that the NWSL intends to be fully professional in the future, but as yet, equally clearly, it isn't. cheers, [[User:Struway2|Struway2]] ([[User talk:Struway2|talk]]) 21:32, 25 January 2013 (UTC) |
Clearly Ms Wambach hopes that the NWSL intends to be fully professional in the future, but as yet, equally clearly, it isn't. cheers, [[User:Struway2|Struway2]] ([[User talk:Struway2|talk]]) 21:32, 25 January 2013 (UTC) |
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:::Clearly? Perhaps via your subjective interpretation of the article. Can you please point me in the direction of the definition of "fully professional" that you are using to make your case? It seems a citation or reference would be helpful at this point. Also, the second citation that I provided (of three) notes "professional league" in the article headline: [http://nesn.com/2012/12/national-womens-soccer-league-unveiled-new-professional-league-to-showcase-soccer-stars/] . Here's another one that refers to '''professional''' leagues with NWSL being a main topic of discussion: [http://equalizersoccer.com/2013/01/24/hope-solo-qa-%E2%80%98i-want-to-bring-the-city-a-championship-and-i-want-to-bring-notoriety-to-the-game%E2%80%99/] See the second question in the article: '''"Did you think there was another opportunity for a league like this to start, given the way the last major professional league ended?"''' If we're really here to support the beautiful game for both men and women, I think there needs to be some clarity on what the consensus is re: professional vs "fully professional." If it's salary amount, that should be noted somewhere, no? [[User:Hmlarson|Hmlarson]] ([[User talk:Hmlarson|talk]]) 22:02, 25 January 2013 (UTC) |
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Proposition to include NWSL
National Women's Soccer League will start playing in spring of 2013. It'll be a fully professional league. So I propose to include it on list.--SirEdimon (talk) 16:37, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
- Provide reliable sources to confirm this, and your more than welcome to add it yourself. Sir Sputnik (talk) 16:44, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
They yet to have a official site, but every women's soccer site in the world reported this. The salaries will be paid by the USSF, the Canadian Soccer Association (CSA) and the Mexican Football Federation. Here's the official description of the league:
"Description U.S. Soccer will play a major role in organizing and running the league to ensure a business model with a focus on sustainability.
U.S. Soccer will subsidize the salaries of up to 24 U.S. Women’s National Team players while the Canadian Soccer Association will do the same for up to 16 Canadian players and the Federation of Mexican Football will do the same for up to 12 Mexican players."
Here some sites: http://equalizersoccer.com/2012/11/21/eight-teams-to-start-new-womens-pro-soccer-league-in-2013/ http://www.ussoccer.com/News/Womens-National-Team/2012/11/Cheryl-Bailey-Named-Executive-Director-of-New-Womens-Soccer-League.aspx http://www.nj.com/soccer-news/index.ssf/2012/12/on_soccer_new_womens_pro_leagu.html
Is there enough or we have to wait till they release an official site?--SirEdimon (talk) 17:03, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
- This page is mainly used for helping to determine whether players who have appeared in the league should be considered notable. As nobody will play in this league until next spring there is no need for any hurry in listing it here. I note that only up to 52 players will have their pay subsidized, so the official description is not enough to show that the league will be fully professional. Phil Bridger (talk) 17:47, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
The league will be fully professional. The federations will only help to pay the salaries and will only pay the national team players salaries. Thus the league can have a high level soccer. And they can prevent a possible failure. PS: I'm here only looking for advice about this question, I know we have months, but I want to be ready.--SirEdimon (talk) 21:56, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
Liga Leumit
Sorry to re-hash an old topic of conversation, but the Israel Football Association (IFA) refers to the Premier League and Liga Leumit as professional leagues. It would be a bizarre thing to state that the leagues are "fully professional" in Hebrew. This is more Wikipedia semantics than anything else. In an effort not to create an edit war, can we please weigh in on this issue?
Ahead of the 2011/12 season, the IFA decided to restructure the three top tiers to go from 3 professional leagues to two. Growing the top two divisions and abandoning the 3rd tier for a regional system. As such, the two should be recognized by Wiki as professional as that is how the IFA defines them. -NYC2TLV (talk) 03:09, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
- What reliable sources are you using to verify your claims? GiantSnowman 09:37, 24 December 2012 (UTC)
- Having lived in Israel for several years and attended Liga Leumit games, I really cannot see how clubs in the division can be fully professional. Last season only five of the sixteen clubs had average gates of over 400. I wouldn't be surprised if the "professional" here actually referred to the fact that the players receive some form of payment (i.e. part-timers). Number 57 12:26, 24 December 2012 (UTC)
- Your link did not work. Regardless of average attendance, many people know that Israeli football on the whole is not for turning a profit. Many of the clubs are owned by people who use the club either as a status symbol etc. Second, your personal experience attending Liga Leumit matches has no actual bearing on whether they are professional or not. -NYC2TLV (talk) 04:48, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
- Try this one. Many people also know that British football as a whole is not for turning a profit. However, there are reasonable limits as to sustaining professional football and with six clubs averaging under 300 (!), I just can't see it. My personal experience is from attending Leumit games with crowds of below 100, and having attended similar level matches in several other countries I know that all other clubs with similar crowds have been semi-pro at best. Number 57 11:37, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
- Again your link did not work. I hate to sound like a broken record, but your personal experience attending a game a number of years ago is not proof of anything when it comes to Wikipedia where you must bring sources. I am just looking to be fair since a source from the IFA has been given and no one has come with proof to disprove the IFA's stance. So please keep the discussion academic and not about personal experiences during study abroad programs. -NYC2TLV (talk) 21:11, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
- Study abroad programmes? Sorry, never been on one. I've also been to more than "a game a number of years ago". I suggest sticking to the topic rather than making obtuse personal attacks. But back to the subject in hand, I suspect a problem is that this may be one of the cases where people do not differentiate between professional and semi-professional, hence the need to specifically state "fully professional". Number 57 22:22, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
- The fact that there appears to have been a major strike over pay would suggest it to be a pro league: [1]. I cannot find anything anywhere that directly talks about it being semi-pro or professional, due to having no knowledge of Hebrew, although [2] also suggests it to be fully pro (taken from an AfD on a footballer who plays in the second tier). Lukeno94 (talk) 10:40, 29 December 2012 (UTC)
- Study abroad programmes? Sorry, never been on one. I've also been to more than "a game a number of years ago". I suggest sticking to the topic rather than making obtuse personal attacks. But back to the subject in hand, I suspect a problem is that this may be one of the cases where people do not differentiate between professional and semi-professional, hence the need to specifically state "fully professional". Number 57 22:22, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
- Again your link did not work. I hate to sound like a broken record, but your personal experience attending a game a number of years ago is not proof of anything when it comes to Wikipedia where you must bring sources. I am just looking to be fair since a source from the IFA has been given and no one has come with proof to disprove the IFA's stance. So please keep the discussion academic and not about personal experiences during study abroad programs. -NYC2TLV (talk) 21:11, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
- Try this one. Many people also know that British football as a whole is not for turning a profit. However, there are reasonable limits as to sustaining professional football and with six clubs averaging under 300 (!), I just can't see it. My personal experience is from attending Leumit games with crowds of below 100, and having attended similar level matches in several other countries I know that all other clubs with similar crowds have been semi-pro at best. Number 57 11:37, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
- Your link did not work. Regardless of average attendance, many people know that Israeli football on the whole is not for turning a profit. Many of the clubs are owned by people who use the club either as a status symbol etc. Second, your personal experience attending Liga Leumit matches has no actual bearing on whether they are professional or not. -NYC2TLV (talk) 04:48, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
- Having lived in Israel for several years and attended Liga Leumit games, I really cannot see how clubs in the division can be fully professional. Last season only five of the sixteen clubs had average gates of over 400. I wouldn't be surprised if the "professional" here actually referred to the fact that the players receive some form of payment (i.e. part-timers). Number 57 12:26, 24 December 2012 (UTC)
Request/Proposal: Add K League to the list.
Recently the former K-League of South Korea split into 2 leagues... the K League Classic which is now the tier 1 league and the K League which is the 2nd tier of South Korean football. Their is promotion/relegation between the two leagues. I can not prove it now but hopefully someone can take the time to do some research to prove that the new K League is fully-professional. Cheers. --ArsenalFan700 (talk) 06:03, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
Irish leagues
Just noticed the Irish leagues are not present anywhere in this list at the moment, and there's no active discussion about them. The name of the governing body suggests a fully-pro league: but can someone find any sources proving or disproving this? Lukeno94 (talk) 22:28, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
- Neither of them are fully-pro. There is currently a discussion here regarding them though. Adam4267 (talk) 22:32, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
NWSL again
I've removed it again. In the first link supplied, an Associated Press interview carried by ESPN, Abby Wambach clarifies the distinction between a league being professional (the players are paid to play) and fully professional (all contracted players are paid enough to support themselves by doing nothing other than playing football). To quote:
- [Wambach]'ll be joined in the new league by all her American teammates and by Canada captain Christine Sinclair. But not all the players will be able to support themselves just from their soccer income.
"Where I think we went wrong in the past, and probably in both scenarios, is that we started off too big, where our salaries were too high," she said. "I think that we have to take what we can get, and some of the players are probably unfortunately going to have to have other jobs, which in my opinion isn't hopefully the long vision, the long-sighted vision of where we want to go." (my highlighting)
- [Wambach]'ll be joined in the new league by all her American teammates and by Canada captain Christine Sinclair. But not all the players will be able to support themselves just from their soccer income.
Clearly Ms Wambach hopes that the NWSL intends to be fully professional in the future, but as yet, equally clearly, it isn't. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 21:32, 25 January 2013 (UTC)
- Clearly? Perhaps via your subjective interpretation of the article. Can you please point me in the direction of the definition of "fully professional" that you are using to make your case? It seems a citation or reference would be helpful at this point. Also, the second citation that I provided (of three) notes "professional league" in the article headline: [3] . Here's another one that refers to professional leagues with NWSL being a main topic of discussion: [4] See the second question in the article: "Did you think there was another opportunity for a league like this to start, given the way the last major professional league ended?" If we're really here to support the beautiful game for both men and women, I think there needs to be some clarity on what the consensus is re: professional vs "fully professional." If it's salary amount, that should be noted somewhere, no? Hmlarson (talk) 22:02, 25 January 2013 (UTC)