Just as there is a template {{IPAEng|}} there could be an {{IPAru|}} that links to here. This would be a nice place to set up procedures for transcribing Russian in a consistant manner across Wikipedia. — Ƶ§œš¹ _{[aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi]} 15:58, 6 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, a place to set up procedures for transcribing Russian should not be located in mainspace. Cf. Romanization of Russian and Wikipedia:Romanization of Russian.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 16:53, 6 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Huh? We're talking about IPA. Maybe Help:IPA might be a better place. — Ƶ§œš¹ _{[aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi]} 18:47, 7 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I know we are talking about IPA :) I used romanization as an example of the encyclopedic article being separate from Wikipedia's guidelines. Procedures (of romanization, trascription, etc.) should not be set up in mainspace (a suggestion which I, perhaps mistakenly, derived from your original comment). Help space is, of course, another possibility. Cheers,—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 20:31, 7 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

There is no difference in pronunciation of stressed vowels in "жест" and "цель", "трава" and "палка", "пуля" and "чуть". At least any differences are absolutely incomprehensible by a native speaker (not a linguistics professional). As such, I believe there shouldn't be any difference in pronunciation charts for these sounds in general audience encyclopedia. Conversely, there are quite pronounced differences between unstressed vowels in "тяжелый" and "этап"; "дышать", "жена" and "сердце". Bottom line: the table should be fixed (not being familiar with IPA, I can't do this myself). --Dp074 (talk) 01:48, 2 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Allophony usually means that speakers don't notice. Besides, vowel allophony is one of its more noticeable aspects of Russian (that and palatalization). In addition, a number of the allophones for the vowels are those that English speakers make contrasts in (the difference between [ɛ] and [e], [æ] and [ɑ]). — Ƶ§œš¹ _{[aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi]} 04:47, 2 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

If speakers don't notice, the reader shouldn't either. Wikipedia is not a linguistic source, but rather targets a broad audience. I am not sure I understand your arguments about English, as this is about Russian pronunciation. To make it look like these sounds are different in Russian is definitely wrong. Can anybody offer a reasonable solution? --Dp074 (talk) 01:57, 4 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

That's a bit draconian. The transcriptions are to give English speakers (Wikipedia's target audience) a phonetic rendering of Russian pronunciation without being unnecessarily technical. If we were to transcribe phonemes only, then readers would be misled on Russian pronunciation because, for example, жена is /ʐeˈna/ phonemically but ʐɨ̞ˈna] or [ʐɨˈna]. Do you have any suggestions for reasonable solutions? — Ƶ§œš¹ _{[aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi]} 18:41, 4 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Although vowel allophony is an important aspect of Russian pronunciation, which phone a phoneme will be realized as is predictable from its environment. The table should probably make clear the distinction between the relatively small number of vowel phonemes that should be used in a phonemic transcription of Russian (e.g., жест /ʒɛst/, цель /t͡sɛlʲ/, пять /pʲatʲ/, чуть /t͡ʃʲutʲ/) and the much larger number of vowel phones to be used in a phonetic transcription (e.g., жест [ʐɛst], цель [t͡selʲ], пять [pʲætʲ], чуть [t͡ɕʉtʲ]). Also, /o/ is often realized as a clearly audible [oə], which is not indicated in the current table. Furthermore, if you're going to provide such a narrow phonetic transcription for the vowels, you might also want to note that phonemically nonpalatalized (or "plain") consonants are often affirmatively velarized/pharyngealized, so that нос and нёс are phonemically /nos/ and /nʲos/, but phonetically [n̴oəs̴] and [nʲoəs̴] (or [nˠoəsˠ] and [nʲoəsˠ]), respectively. And what about the labial offglide in, e.g., вы [v̴ʷɨ]? My point is that not everyone always wants to show the fine details of Russian phonetics; sometimes, a phonemic transcription is enough, and the table as it currently stands gives the impression that Russian has a lot more phonemes than it actually does. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hizkuntzalari (talk • contribs) 11:07, 7 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

If Russian is transcribed phonemically, then the link should go to Russian phonology (which is where one ought to get information about Russian phonology anyway). It's true that there can be even greater specificity in the phonetic transcription, but there are practical considerations. I happen to think that it's a good balance as it is fairly specific but doesn't require any diacritics but for the superscript j (which is unavoidable). I have a suspicion that you were being sarcastic in your suggestions, though if you have some serious ones I've got open ears. — Ƶ§œš¹ _{[aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi]} 22:04, 27 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

One important thing is not mentioned here, that is, how to mark stress in IPA representation of Russian words?--92.39.161.219 (talk) 21:11, 11 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Very true. I've added it with an example. — Ƶ§œš¹ _{[aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi]} 03:36, 12 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I found many errors in example tables. Some of them mentioned above, in addition four top lines of unstressed vowel examples are incorrect (sounds in different words given are definitely not the same (i.e. this is the situation opposite to the aforementioned problems). Has this article undergone any professional review? What are credentials of the original contributors? --Dp074 (talk) 02:05, 4 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Can you be more explicit about what the errors are? I'm pretty much the major original contributor. Although I don't speak Russian, I've done a lot of research in editing Russian phonology and almost everything here is sourced or has its basing in sources. — Ƶ§œš¹ _{[aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi]} 18:18, 4 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I gave quite specific examples above. I do not know what sources you have used, but you definitely should have double-checked them with Russian experts on the subject. I am not a trained linguist or philologist myself, but the problems with the page are obvious and amount to the inapplicability of this information. I can email you the most detailed information on the errors on this page - however I can fix not all of them myself --Dp074 (talk) 03:38, 22 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Russian phonology says [u] becomes [ʊ] when unstressed. Shouldn't this be included?AlexanderKaras (talk) 07:58, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I have asked about this issue on a linguistic forum and they told me that since the quality of the unstressed vowel is pretty much different from the stressed one it would be better to use a distinct character for it, i.e. [ʊ] for unstressed <у>. Hellerick (talk) 15:37, 1 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]