Add "This page is for discussing improvements to the Wikipedia article." ? —Centrx→talk • 07:14, 11 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Also, in line with other templates, this one should be moved to Template:Notaforum. —Centrx→talk • 07:15, 11 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Talkheader has this statement in the first line, so in combination it works out, but I am not certain it is always necessary/appropriate to use in combination, or whether the statement should be present in the same warning message. —Centrx→talk • 07:21, 11 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Certain article like Super Smash Bros. Brawl needed a stronger notice than the standard talk header. This template is only for talk pages that keep getting large amounts of irrelevant chat. Dread Lord CyberSkull ✎☠ 10:26, 16 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I think that {{Notice}} does a fine job of that already. Hbdragon88 21:42, 18 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Seriously, until someone posted the original the page was getting out of hand with speculation and theories, not facts or article discussion. Dread Lord CyberSkull ✎☠ 01:18, 29 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Note: Please use {{blp}} for biographies of living people. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.23.153.125 (talk • contribs) 04:45, August 2, 2006 (UTC)

IT IS TO GET THE ATTENTION OF PEOPLE? 1ne 08:29, 10 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Um, because we are yelling at people. Dread Lord CyberSkull ✎☠ 09:45, 10 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

WHY WOULD WE DO THAT? THAT VIOLATES WP:CIVIL! 1ne 10:01, 10 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

WE ARE NOT EXACTLY YELLING AT THEM, WE'RE JUST GETTING THEIR ATTENTION! Just like that. Big letters are very effective; as that one YTMND goes, "HEY I THINK I'LL CATCH EVERYONE'S ATTENTION WITH LARGE CAPITAL LETTERS!!!!" —this is messedrocker (talk) 10:03, 10 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

STILL, TRYING TO GET THEIR ATTENTION IS YELLING! 1ne 10:04, 10 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

DO WE REALLY NEED TO GET THEIR ATTENTION LIKE THIS? WHILE IT IS ADMITTEDLY GOOD CSS IT REALLY ANNOYS ACTUAL CONTRIBUTORS. Superm401 - Talk 07:29, 1 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

THANKFULLY, THIS TEMPLATE DOESN'T USE ALL CAPS ANYMORE!!! One 06:50, 20 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Where is the wikipedia policy that says talk pages can't be used as a forum? --Rebroad 20:14, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It says right at the top of the page, "This is not a forum for discussing how this is not a forum for discussing stuff like this. Any such messages will be deleted." So your message should be deleted... along with my message replying to it! *Dan T.* 21:34, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

A talk page is a place for discussing improvements to the Wikipedia article; it is not a general discussion forum or a forum for discussing the topic separately from that goal. —Centrx→talk • 22:34, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

To be specific, Wikipedia:Talk page guidelines: "Irrelevant discussions are subject to removal." Gazpacho 10:32, 31 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, "subject to removal." But this leaves silent *who* removes it. I have actually seen no example of removal of discussion that is about the topic of the article, but I've certainly seen editors who don't like where the discussion is going use this template to try to suppress it. Removing any discussion that is connected with the topic, even if only remotely, would be a violation of the process by which editors find consensus, sometimes it involves some understanding of where editors are coming from, background, so to speak. What is properly removed is material that is totally irrelevant -- and certainly vandalism or incivil comments. Which are removed anway, with or without this template. The template as it is is misleading. By having the lost performative of the passive "will be removed," it sounds like a threat. "may be removed" would be accurate, but still leaves out "by whom." In fact, any editor may remove truly irrelevant material, but if this became common practice, I'd predict edit warring over it, argument about Talk, and even more time wasted. This template should become friendlier, such as something like "Please keep talk here focused on finding improvements to the article," or the like. With no threats. The guideline quoted above is enough. If any "threat" is to be involved, it would simply quote that guideline, which says it better than what the template currently has. --Abd (talk) 20:18, 24 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Is that the best you can do? Discussion of the article is relevant and discussion of the topic is not? This means you propose to delete, from talk pages, stuff like "DNA evidence cleared sixty people on Illinois' death row," but not, "The article should say that DNA evidence cleared sixty people on Illinois' death row." Absurd. Furthermore, capitals are slightly harder to read and thus serve to distract, instead of emphasize as intended. I am going to propose deletion. James S. 16:51, 5 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

No, the statement about DNA evidence is still relevant to the article. Are you saying that an article talk page is supposed to be a general discussion forum? —Centrx→talk • 23:22, 5 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

In practice, what is the actual difference between discussion of a topic and discussion of an article about a topic? I admit there are exclusive fringes, but mostly it is overlap. Therefore I have changed "will be deleted" to "may be deleted". James S. 23:53, 5 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

In practice, talk pages of certain topics tend to become discussion forums for all and sundry to discuss their favorite video game, movie, football player, etc. with no interest in the article at all. This template is for those situations. —Centrx→talk • 00:11, 6 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This template is not to be placed on every talk page, it is for these specific situations. If someone asks "how do I get past this monster in level 9", that cannot even be oriented toward making an encyclopedia article because Wikipedia is not a game guide; if a group of people start having a discussion about how "awesome" a football player is "and did you see that game last week!?", that's not about the article. You can get an idea by looking at the messages that are used for this template. How does it make sense to say "This is not a forum for discussing where you can find the Ocean dub. Such messages may be deleted."; "This is not a forum for discussing things at random. Such messages may be deleted." You may have found this template on a derelict talk page where there is no such discussion, but the solution to that is to remove the template, not to break it for all the other pages where it is useful. —Centrx→talk • 00:20, 6 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Part of the Manual of Style, Wikipedia:Talk page templates#Chosen scheme indicates the scheme "to be used for all talk page templates."

Furthermore, WP:BITE suggests that we should be polite, using "please," "thank you," and "may be deleted" instead of "will be deleted."

Finally, according to The Non-Designer's Web Book, Third Edition, "Never set large amounts of text in bold, italic, all caps, small caps, script, etc.... Don't set type in all caps, unless you really need the rectangular look of an all-caps word. All caps are much more difficult to read because every word has the same rectangular shape. Look at the different shapes of the words cat and dog. We recognize those shapes instantly when we read. But in all caps, CAT and DOG have the same shape." James S. 07:14, 6 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The template is only for use on problematic talk pages where the standard talk header is not seen or heeded by commenters. The Manual of Style does not account for all possible situations where talk page headers might be used, and this is an exceptional case where the standard is not appropriate. This template was not hostile, and WP:BITE is not about sycophantic courtesies, though some changes to address such concerns could be appropriate. Talk pages are not for general discussion irrelevant to improving the Wikipedia article, and where the header has been added such comments will be deleted. The capitals might pose a readability problem, but that is not a reason to diminish the font size and remove all other formatting that served to make the template noticeable. This template is for situations where it needs to be noticeable above and beyond that standard formatting in {{talkheader}}. —Centrx→talk • 22:58, 20 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Just a note to those who worked on this template, it's proven quite useful on Talk:Grand Theft Auto IV where the level of speculation and offtopic discussion was getting ridiculous. Along with a couple of editors, this template has made it impossible for those who use the page to chat to continue to argue that they can do so, and consequently the quantity of chatter has declined. ●BillPP ^{(talk|contribs)} 16:22, 9 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Can we remove the wiki-linking of the optional parameter? It can cause unneccessary and ugly redlinks, as seen at Talk:Paris Hilton or Talk:Grand Theft Auto IV. -SpuriousQ (talk) 22:19, 16 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I changed the code slightly so it now links to the page only if the parameter is left off. ●BillPP ^{(talk|contribs)} 22:30, 16 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Also the linking will still work by typing the parameter with square brackets like a normal link. It just doesn't do it as default now. ●BillPP ^{(talk|contribs)} 22:32, 16 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hi all. I have an idea, but I'm not sure it's a good one. Would it be good to explicitly state that personal opinion and speculation don't belong? When a talk page attracts general forum usage, those are typically the common cases. I set up a sandbox to try it out; you can compare to the existing design, too. My major concern is this makes the template rather more verbose; it might be too much. Thoughts? —DragonHawk (talk|hist) 12:58, 16 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It still fits in two lines, and it provides useful elaboration of the point, so it's fine by me. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 09:38, 17 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Well, as far as the number of lines go, that of course depends on the font size, the width of the browser canvas, the browser, window trim, phase of the moon, etc.  :) FWIW, here's what I see (Firefox 3.x, Linux, FVWM, 14 pt sans serif font):

So I'm guessing this would add one or two lines for many common resolutions. Even more for a handheld/phone browser. So I think it's ultimately a question of whether the additional value is worth the additional space. I obviously do, but I'm biased.  :) Anyone else have thoughts? —DragonHawk (talk|hist) 17:37, 19 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

In the template code, when an explicit subject text is given, it should not be linked (i.e., should not be placed inside square brackets). That's the behavior this template has long had, and pages depend on it. It makes sense; a verbose description may not be a page name. The Talk:Kid Nation usage in the template doc is a prime example. A recent edit broke this. I think I've fixed it.

On a related note: One should test edits in the sandbox before changing the "real" template. It's possible to see how it will look in other namespaces:

1. Make your change in the sandbox. Save.
2. Go to a page in the desired namespace. Edit that page.
3. Insert a transclusion of the sandbox, i.e., {{notaforum/sandbox}}
4. Preview that change. You'll see the sandbox as it will appear in that namespace.
5. Discard/cancel your changes to that page. Do not save; only preview.

Hope this helps. —DragonHawk (talk|hist) 02:53, 4 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I've just added the links to the Reference desk, Village pump, and help desk. I think that it gives those places some needed exposure, but more importantly a line like that gives the entire message a more neutral non-combative tone. The language in the sentence itself is a little rough, but it is succinct, at least... if anyone feel that they can improve on it though, please feel free.
— Ω (talk) 17:37, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]