::@[[User:Clarityfiend|Clarityfiend]], of course there are plenty of sources! No-one is disputing that, but that is not the issue. The issue is, that we have a lead that is proclaiming Newton as a kind of demi-god (of perhaps even without the demi). This lead (like many others) has religious connotations, where Newton is being presented as a kind of Jesus (sorry Germany, our prophet is better than your prophet (Kepler, Leibniz, Einstein, you choose...)).
::@[[User:Clarityfiend|Clarityfiend]], of course there are plenty of sources! No-one is disputing that, but that is not the issue. The issue is, that we have a lead that is proclaiming Newton as a kind of demi-god (of perhaps even without the demi). This lead (like many others) has religious connotations, where Newton is being presented as a kind of Jesus (sorry Germany, our prophet is better than your prophet (Kepler, Leibniz, Einstein, you choose...)).
::Newton's importance is already sufficiently stated in the first sentences, why bragging on about his importance, it's never-ending.... We read formulations like, 'a key figure', 'seminal contributions', 'one of the greatest and most influential', 'the superiority of', 'the greatest genius who ever lived'; give me a fucking break...even the muslims are not that positive about their prophet. These formulations even go against Newton's own idea of what science truly is: building upon the works of predecessors... [[User:GoneWithThePuffery|GoneWithThePuffery]] ([[User talk:GoneWithThePuffery|talk]]) 12:27, 26 February 2024 (UTC)
::Newton's importance is already sufficiently stated in the first sentences, why bragging on about his importance, it's never-ending.... We read formulations like, 'a key figure', 'seminal contributions', 'one of the greatest and most influential', 'the superiority of', 'the greatest genius who ever lived'; give me a fucking break...even the muslims are not that positive about their prophet. These formulations even go against Newton's own idea of what science truly is: building upon the works of predecessors... [[User:GoneWithThePuffery|GoneWithThePuffery]] ([[User talk:GoneWithThePuffery|talk]]) 12:27, 26 February 2024 (UTC)
:::This is basically an argument about the [[great man theory]] of history, which peaked in the 19th century, but has now been largely debunked and abandoned by historical scholars, while remaining popular among the wider public, who love to see the past as a story of heroes and villains. But the fact remains that Newton ''is'' widely regarded as highly pioneering and influential, and that is a point worth making in the lede. From the point of view of Wikipedia, the important thing is to remain neutral and balanced, and to report what secondary sources have said, not to offer value-judgements of our own. I would suggest that the solution might be to replace "He is considered ..." with "He has been described as ...", followed by one or two quotes from authoritative sources. [[User:GrindtXX|GrindtXX]] ([[User talk:GrindtXX|talk]]) 13:23, 26 February 2024 (UTC)
Revision as of 13:24, 26 February 2024
Isaac Newton is a former featured article. Please see the links under Article milestones below for its original nomination page (for older articles, check the nomination archive) and why it was removed.
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Cambridge religious requirements
I merged two descriptions of Cambridge's fellowship Anglican requirements as best I could. The only thing that appears a bit odd to me is the bit about "By 1675 the issue could not be avoided". However, he became Lucasian Professor in 1669 and used that to get a royal dispensation. So what am I missing/ignorant of? Clarityfiend (talk) 12:10, 26 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
That is odd. - Aiden Morris 74.131.154.157 (talk) 15:04, 23 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Semi-protected edit request on 27 November 2023
Therealissacnewton (talk) 09:14, 27 November 2023 (UTC) someone misspelled his name and I want to change it[reply]
TherealissacnewtonI will look. - Aiden Morris 74.131.154.157 (talk) 15:06, 23 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Issac Newton = The Real Issac Newton [404: Page Not Found]- Aiden Morris 74.131.154.157 (talk) 15:14, 23 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Dates (birth, death): Please revert to the to the double "O.S.", "N.S." notation.
It is grossly incorrect to say that "Isaac Newton was born on December 25" without specifying that it refers to the (nowadays dismissed for civil uses) Julian calendar. Please restante that "He was born on Dec. 25 1642 [O.S.], Jan. 4 1643 [N.S.]" and similarly for his death date, as it was correctly stated some time ago. 190.151.145.145 (talk) 11:03, 1 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
UPDATE
BBC and Brittanica hold more info. Please link to the BBC Teach and Brittanica pages, and show the BBC's Issac Newton: The Last Magician film and that would greatly improve stuff. - Aiden Morris 74.131.154.157 (talk) 15:02, 23 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Semi-protected edit request on 3 February 2024
Sir Isaac Newton FRS (25 December 1642 – 20 March 1726/27[a]) was an English polymath active as a mathematician, physicist, astronomer, alchemist, theologian, and author who was described in his time as a natural philosopher.[7] He was a key figure in the Scientific Revolution and the Enlightenment that followed. His pioneering book Philosophiæ Naturalis Principia Mathematica (Mathematical Principles of Natural Philosophy), first published in 1687, consolidated many previous results and established classical mechanics.[8][9] Newton also made seminal contributions to optics, and shares credit with German mathematician Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz for developing infinitesimal calculus, though he developed calculus years before Leibniz.[10][11] He is considered one of the greatest and most influential scientists in history. 213.6.39.154 (talk) 08:37, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Cannolis (talk) 09:25, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Puffery
There was a practice here to eliminate the puffery that was included in many articles of scientists as much as possible. This was also done for this article. Now, we read: "He is considered one of the greatest and most influential scientists in history." Along with five sources, of which many are childish and others (New Scientist) are not even supporting the claim. Is Wikipedia now going the other direction? In that case we can make the claim in every article of every scientist in the list of that absurd book The Scientific 100: A Ranking of the Most Influential Scientists, Past and Present (one of the sources here). What a childish and petty practice. GoneWithThePuffery (talk) 23:09, 25 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I don't agree that this is puffery. I think it should stay there, but the sources should be improved. Britannica, a very reliable and reputable source, says that Newton’s Philosophiae Naturalis Principia Mathematica (Mathematical Principles of Natural Philosophy, 1687) was one of the most important single works in the history of modern science. —Panamitsu(talk) 02:24, 26 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It's not puffery when it is pretty much universally recognized as true. Also, WP:PUFFERY states, "Instead of making subjective proclamations about a subject's importance, use facts and attribution to demonstrate it." There are plenty of sources. Clarityfiend (talk) 08:49, 26 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This is interestingly absurd and rather silly but easy to refute and reject. We can add ODNB as a good source, which says at its conclusion: "There has never since been a time when Newton was not considered either the greatest scientist who ever lived or one of a tiny handful of the greatest. His Principia marked the culmination of the scientific revolution, which ushered in modern science, and through its legacy the work may have done more to shape the modern world than any other ever published." Westfall, R (2009). "Newton, Sir Isaac (1642–1727), natural philosopher and mathematician". Oxford Dictionary of National Biography (online ed.). Oxford University Press. doi:10.1093/ref:odnb/20059. (Subscription or UK public library membership required.)
I've added ODNB as a more mature source than some that were mentioned on the page, that would be fair criticism of one or two of them. Jim Killock(talk) 09:18, 26 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Jim Killock, it's not a matter of agreeing with the sentence or not (of course I agree with it). It's a matter of everyone stating this about every scientist. On top of that, we see elsewhere that sentences like these are being removed. The question is then, why are we keeping those childish sentences here (as if it's a competition; and okay, perhaps it is...). If we say this about Newton, why not about Galileo? Or Copernicus, Huygens, Kepler? GoneWithThePuffery (talk) 12:04, 26 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Like: "Galileo has been called the father of observational astronomy, modern-era classical physics, the scientific method, and modern science."
"Copernicus's model in his book De revolutionibus orbium coelestium (On the Revolutions of the Celestial Spheres), just before his death in 1543, was a major event in the history of science, triggering the Copernican Revolution and making a pioneering contribution to the Scientific Revolution."
Christiaan Huygens"is regarded as a key figure in the Scientific Revolution"
Johannes Kepler: "The variety and impact of his work made Kepler one of the founders and fathers of modern astronomy, the scientific method, natural and modern science. He has been described as the "father of science fiction" for his novel Somnium."
These seem similar in terms of their assessment and place in scientific stardom? Jim Killock(talk) 12:30, 26 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Clarityfiend, of course there are plenty of sources! No-one is disputing that, but that is not the issue. The issue is, that we have a lead that is proclaiming Newton as a kind of demi-god (of perhaps even without the demi). This lead (like many others) has religious connotations, where Newton is being presented as a kind of Jesus (sorry Germany, our prophet is better than your prophet (Kepler, Leibniz, Einstein, you choose...)).
Newton's importance is already sufficiently stated in the first sentences, why bragging on about his importance, it's never-ending.... We read formulations like, 'a key figure', 'seminal contributions', 'one of the greatest and most influential', 'the superiority of', 'the greatest genius who ever lived'; give me a fucking break...even the muslims are not that positive about their prophet. These formulations even go against Newton's own idea of what science truly is: building upon the works of predecessors... GoneWithThePuffery (talk) 12:27, 26 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This is basically an argument about the great man theory of history, which peaked in the 19th century, but has now been largely debunked and abandoned by historical scholars, while remaining popular among the wider public, who love to see the past as a story of heroes and villains. But the fact remains that Newton is widely regarded as highly pioneering and influential, and that is a point worth making in the lede. From the point of view of Wikipedia, the important thing is to remain neutral and balanced, and to report what secondary sources have said, not to offer value-judgements of our own. I would suggest that the solution might be to replace "He is considered ..." with "He has been described as ...", followed by one or two quotes from authoritative sources. GrindtXX (talk) 13:23, 26 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]