Wikipedia Help Template‑class

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Linguistics: Phonetics Template‑class

This template is within the scope of WikiProject Linguistics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of linguistics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.LinguisticsWikipedia:WikiProject LinguisticsTemplate:WikiProject LinguisticsLinguistics articles Template This template does not require a rating on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. This template is supported by Phonetics Task Force.

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In wikt:Template:IPA, the template parameters are:

• |1= language code
• |2=, |3=, |4= ... pronunciation(s)
• |qualN= qualifier for pronunciation N
• |nN= reference note for pronunciation N
• |nocount=1 disable syllable counting
• |sort= manual sort key

Because w:Template:IPA has only one parameter max, and Wiktionary's has two min, these are completely compatible.

Therefore, please merge them, to keep current behavior if 1 parameter and use Wiktionary's behavior if >1. This would help when copying content from Wiktionary. Sai ¿?✍ 11:22, 15 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I was expecting the {{lang-xx}} templates to produce HTML like <span lang="en-fonipa"></span> to tag the text as English language transcribed as IPA. Can you modify the template to emit lang tags? --Error (talk) 00:29, 1 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Take for instance the following paragraph:

In English, the longest possible initial cluster is three consonants, as in split /ˈsplɪt/, strudel /ˈstruːdəl/, strengths /ˈstrɛŋkθs/, and "squirrel" /ˈskwɪrəl/, all beginning with the /s/ or /ʃ/, containing /p/, /t/, or /k/, and ending with /l/, /r/, or /w/.

Viewing on mobile, many of these have a line break after the initial slash. It should be nowrapped.  Nixinova   T   C   00:50, 5 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Per MOS:SMALLTEXT it says Reduced or enlarged font sizes should be used sparingly, and are usually done with automated page elements such as headings, table headers, and standardized templates. Furthermore, it states that these styles should not be used in infoboxes and other templates that already reduce size. I note that a lot of {{IPA}} templates are used in the in the opening sentences and across infoboxes when introducing a non-English subject. Please can the automated formatting be removed to comply with the relevant MOS? >> Lil-unique1 (talk) — 18:37, 15 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

To editor Lil-unique1: accessibility is a very important issue on Wikipedia, and I think these templates are not out of line with the MOS. The font size is governed by CSS styling and can therefore be adjusted by users/readers similar to how they can adjust the size of headers and text with their browsers. I think it's the class="IPA" in the span tag that governs that. So if you need a larger font, all you need to do is adjust the font size in your browser. You can also change to a different font if you like. Just read the Usage section on the template page. Hope this helps! P.I. Ellsworth , ed. ^put'r there 20:09, 15 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Paine Ellsworth: thanks for the swift response. The MOS is equivocal and clear about the fact that small text being used sparingly. The use of small font in this template has no obvious purpose other than stylistically. Aside from aesthetics, it doesn't look good mid text to have small text. See Alesso for an example of what I mean. If there is a reason that {{IPA}} and its sub templates such as {{IPA-it}} render the resultant text in small font, small than standard prose, I'd like to know why otherwise this is a deviation of the MOS for no apparent reason. This arbitrary use of Small Text has started to be removed from other templates such as {{tracklist}}. The issue isn't overall text size, its that when you use this template, it generates some of the text in a smaller font for no reason. >> Lil-unique1 (talk) — 20:14, 15 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Let's address that "no reason" idea. It appears that these and other similar templates have been rendering small fonts for many, many years now. It's good to question the reason, I think. So if there were good reason to reduce font size temporarily within article content as these templates do, what do you suppose that reason might be? Please indulge me on this. I think I know the reason; however, if you can come up with the reason on your own, then we might conclude that it is a logical and valid reason. Thank you for your patience and indulgence! P.I. Ellsworth , ed. ^put'r there 20:23, 15 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The only reason I could conclude that any text should ever appear smaller than the standard text size is because it is providing ancillary information, i.e. a note or some secondary information that is not pertinent to the immediate point. Arguably there could be some limited circumstances where this might be plausible such to ensure that a table renders on a standard screen size. However, it is unprofessional to have multiple text sizes within the same document or page. This is even alluded to in the MOS where it mentions that small text size via an appropriate template or CSS class should be limited in use. I myself would not be classified as visually impaired, nor do I require the use of screen reading or adjustment software. However, I see no valid reason for the template to render some information small and some not. In many instances of use, it is used within parenthesis which already indicate it is providing ancillary information. I can only fathom that the template was designed as such so that the smaller text is more like a note - however this would have been before Web Accessibility standards became more widely know. Taking accessibility out, from an aesthetic point of view I cannot see a scenario were it is pleasing or looks like deliberate/appropriate formatting. Where I have seen said {{IPA}} templates used, its nearly always in the middle of prose and therefore having random small words in the middle of a sentence looks and feels odd. I'm open to being convinced otherwise, but where there is no procedural reason based on functionality etc. I do think we should always aim for the maximum possible accessibility. In my example from the Alesso article, this means the template would not render the text Italian pronunciation in small. Prose underneath a section header should be in one size as this aids readability whether you have a disability or not. >> Lil-unique1 (talk) — 23:23, 15 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Well, as someone who uses Chrome's largest font ("Very large") with an additional zoom (110%) just for comfortable reading and not because I'm visually impaired, I too can see no strong purpose for the small text other than what you mentioned...

Comparison:

Alessandro Renato Rodolfo Lindblad (born 7 July 1991),^[1][2] better known by his stage name Alesso (Italian pronunciation: [aˈlɛsso]) is a Swedish DJ and record producer.

Alessandro Renato Rodolfo Lindblad (born 7 July 1991),^[1][2] better known by his stage name Alesso (Italian pronunciation: [aˈlɛsso]) is a Swedish DJ and record producer.

I really have no strong opinion either way. I think that increasing the font size for this template would mean changing the class="IPA" to something else. That would then have a domino effect for several other applications. So it appears that a consensus would be needed, and that means finding a centralized place to discuss it such as WT:LANG or WT:IPA or even WT:ACCESS. Not sure which venue would provide the best turnout of editors; however, placing neutral notices of where the discussion is being held can be very helpful. P.I. Ellsworth , ed. ^put'r there 16:15, 16 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Quick note: The IPA class has nothing to do with the label size. That code is in IPA-xx templates, not {{IPA}}. Nardog (talk) 17:58, 16 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for that! So you're saying that each difflang IPA template would have to be changed? And that is so even if consensus were to emerge to better meet accessibility and aesthetic issues by increasing the font size? Well, there aren't that many of them, maybe 150 or so? And what exactly does the IPA class in this template do? P.I. Ellsworth , ed. ^put'r there 18:26, 16 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

See the template documentation. It used to be assigned a font stack in MediaWiki:Common.css but not anymore because most devices can show IPA characters by default now. Nardog (talk) 23:50, 16 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

That's why I thought the class=IPA would determine the font size as well as the font type. Kind of odd that the small tags would be used in the individual IPA templates. Guess no one thought it would ever be questioned? and it was probably thought that not all the text should be rendered small, just a part of it. P.I. Ellsworth , ed. ^put'r there 18:14, 17 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]