The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) —Nnadigoodluck███ 20:47, 19 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The arts → Arts – WP:THE gives two conditions which usually have to be met for an article title to begin with "The":

1. If a word with a definite article has a different meaning with respect to the same word without the article.
2. If the definite or indefinite article would be capitalized in running text.

Neither of these applies to "the arts" as a term. A distinction does need to be made between the arts and art, but those are already different words. As far as I can see the rationale for this article's title has never been discussed on the talk page, but it seems to have been so that the article titles "The arts" and "Art" would be as visually different from each other as possible. I would argue that "Arts" and "Art" are sufficiently different from each other, and better meet our naming conventions.

This has come about because of this proposal at CfD to rename Category:Arts to Category:The arts – partly for consistency with this article's current title, and partly because the phrase "in the arts" appears in other category names. However, I don't see any inconsistency between "Arts" as the title of an article or category, and using "the arts" where the term doesn't appear at the beginning of the title; WP:THE comes into play in the former case and not the latter. As this article's title is so important to that CfD discussion, I think it at least needs to be discussed. Ham II (talk) 10:30, 10 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Pinging BrownHairedGirl, Dimadick, El cid, el campeador, Grutness, Johnbod, Marcocapelle, Oculi and Peterkingiron, who've been involved in related CfD discussions; I'll also post this at WT:THE. Ham II (talk) 10:30, 10 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Oppose. "The arts" is widely used even when the definite article is not required grammatically. I can see no benefit to readers or editors in deliberately creating ambiguity. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 10:35, 10 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose I would say that the first criterion of WP:THE above is met: "If a word with a definite article has a different meaning with respect to the same word without the article". "Arts" without "the" might in many contexts be used for things like "arts of politics" and so on. In a large number of contexts omitting the "the" is a language error. You can't say "the year in arts" and so on (Bhg is understating this point above, imo) . As the nom says, those not used to the distinction with Art do find this a bit confusing, and removing the article will increase that. Johnbod (talk) 14:17, 10 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  I've not seen much use of "arts of politics" myself, with or without "the" – "the dark arts of politics", possibly – and "the art of political persuasion" seems more likely than "(the) arts of" same. So I'm sceptical that there's any distinction to be made between "The arts" and "Arts" as encyclopaedic topics – they should definitely both have the same destination! The distinction is between "The arts" and "Art". Using "the" to emphasise the difference between two non-identical words might possibly be no bad thing, but it doesn't seem to be covered at WP:THE, and absent that "Arts" and "Art" look different enough to me.

  I agree that "in arts" (as opposed to "in the arts") is incorrect, but as I've said I don't see any contradiction between that and an article or category titled simply "Arts"; it isn't correct either to say "in United States", but United States is the article title. Ham II (talk) 16:21, 10 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  Given that we've gone to WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS, perhaps The Bahamas is a valid counterexample. Grutness...wha? 17:07, 10 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  I would never have known before seeing how the name is used in the article text, but apparently The Bahamas satisfies condition 2 of WP:THE. Ham II (talk) 18:23, 10 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  Note that the general concept of art is generally uncountable (unlike Cat/Cats) which is why Arts goes here per WP:PLURALPT that said "arts" does sometimes mean the general concept so the 1st part of THE might be satisfied. Crouch, Swale (talk) 17:27, 18 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Support per WP:THE. Starting an article title with the definite article is certainly discouraged. "The arts" and "Arts" are equivalent in English, and there is no need to have "The" in the title. Rreagan007 (talk) 15:36, 10 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose The definition section of the article uses "the arts" as the term used in the sources cited: "The term "the arts" includes, but is not limited to, music (instrumental and vocal), dance, drama, folk art, creative writing, architecture and allied fields, painting, sculpture, photography, graphic and craft arts, industrial design, costume and fashion design, motion pictures, television, radio, film, video, tape and sound recording, the arts related to the presentation, performance, execution, and exhibition of such major art forms, all those traditional arts practiced by the diverse peoples of this country. (sic) and the study and application of the arts to the human environment." "Arts" without the is nowhere defined. Dimadick (talk) 16:14, 10 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose per common sense. It's "the arts". Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 16:24, 10 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose per general usage. Also, WP:THE should apply, as "The arts" and "Arts" are not completely equivalent in English. "The arts" is the general collective noun; "Arts" is used primarily as a modifier in compound nouns (e.g., "Arts programmes", "Arts funding", "Arts Council", "Arts education"). Grutness...wha? 17:00, 10 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  Are Portal:Arts and Wikipedia:WikiProject Arts misnamed, then? Ham II (talk) 18:28, 10 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  Yes. Grutness...wha? 02:39, 11 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Oppose per others, "The" is regularly used enough to satisfy WP:THE - Aza24 (talk) 22:21, 17 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose Britannica uses "The arts". Crouch, Swale (talk) 15:08, 18 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]