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Hi, this page says "Note that when you use the visual editor, you will not be able to add, remove, or change list-defined references." but it seems that they now work? Was this fixed recently? They still do not work with Template:reflist. Rjjⁱⁱⁱ(talk) 00:38, 21 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

After research, this was a top request in the 2023 Survey.[1] It came up on phabricator to be resolved.[2] User:ESanders (WMF) fixed it by the end of May 2023. In the discussion on Phabricator, matmarex says, "we already have a special-case support for templates that generate a reflist. Since we already treat it like a "real" references list, any new features should work here as well. [...] However, supporting references defined using {{reflist|refs= ... }} would require rich editing of templates."

WhatamIdoing, I think you added the Note that when you use the visual editor... line a few years back. Do you consider the issue resolved now?

And a larger discussion should probably take place, I'm not sure but maybe at WP:VPT, on whether to retain or deprecate "{{reflist|refs= ... }}". Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 02:11, 28 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Rjjiii, it looks like it is possible to remove and change list-defined references (at least when the references tag is being used directly; I didn't test it against the more common template). I don't see a way to add new ones; the normal method adds it inline.

Also, @ESanders (WMF): Please open my sandbox in the visual editor and how the references list in the first section misbehaves. WhatamIdoing (talk) 04:51, 28 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the reply. After discussing this here and there,[3] I took some time to experiment and fixed up the police jury article, which previously used a single bare URL for a single paragraph.[4] I used only list-defined references and no templates in the body test to make a functional test page. I believe you're correct about there being no way to add a list-defined reference from the visual editor; there also does not seem to be a way to delete them (yet). I've held off updating any documentation as they still don't fully work in the visual editor. Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 05:50, 15 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Today I learned that "names must not be totally numeric" – isn't this out of date now that we have visual editor which automatically assigns numeric names? Perhaps that point could be reworded to make an exception fo #visualeditors? Cielquiparle (talk) 04:31, 25 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It would be better to change Visual Editor to not do that. Nikkimaria (talk) 05:56, 25 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The Visual Editor's reference names are not totally numeric, as they begin with a colon. -- John of Reading (talk) 07:53, 25 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the clarification, @John of Reading and @Nikkimaria. Agree with both. Cielquiparle (talk) 15:55, 25 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Is there a way to use groups to prevent note lists used only for an infobox from interfering other note lists used elsewhere in an article? For instance, here, the note "lr note" should be appearing in the "notelist-lr" section, not in the infobox. (Courtesy pinging @Bsherr, as this relates to your change.) Sdkb ^talk 20:12, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, you could use markup and a unique group name instead of the efn-lr template. See WP:REFGROUP --Bsherr (talk) 20:20, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There are several forms of {{efn}}, not just {{efn-lr}}; each one has a matching notelist. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 20:30, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I tried that here, but I didn't see it working in the preview of my sandbox and don't see it working live either. Sdkb ^talk 20:35, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Sdkb: Don't use a manual group, use one of the predefined forms as I advised. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 20:48, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The issue is that an article could be using any of the existing predefined forms, so they would all potentially interfere. We also want to keep the lower roman formatting without a visual change. Sdkb ^talk 21:03, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Your problem at Template:Infobox U.S. college admissions is because neither template accepts a |group= parameter. At User:Sdkb/sandbox/early drafts, change

blah more blah.{{efn-lr|lr note}}

to

blah more blah.{{efn-ur|ur note}}

and

==Notelist-lr==
{{notelist-lr}}

to

==Notelist-ur==
{{notelist-ur}}

This will not then conflict. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 21:50, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think Sdkb point is that they want to use {{efn-lr}} style notes, and include a {{notelist-lr}} in the infobox, but not catch Cite error: There are <ref> tags on this page without content in them (see the help page). notes from outside the infobox in that notelist. If they use {{efn-ua}} they would not want to catch {{efn-ua}} notes from outside the infobox. I don't believe there's anyway of doing this with the currently available options. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested «@» °∆t° 22:16, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, that's correct, Actively. Too bad there isn't currently a solution — is there a Phabricator ticket or some other technical project that might offer one? Sdkb ^talk 01:38, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In the meantime, @Bsherr, I wonder if we should just go back to the manual footnotes to avoid the possibility of conflicts? Sdkb ^talk 01:42, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This was brought up at Template talk:Notelist#The group= parameter is not working as documented about six years ago, notelist doesn't use group in the same way as {{reflist}}. So it can't be used in the way you want to use it. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested «@» °∆t° 22:23, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

EFN only works with the predefined groups. Instead, you can use Reflist or the magic word. Alternatively, we can just remove the notelist from the template and put it at the bottom of each article, integrated with any other explanatory footnotes. --Bsherr (talk) 03:36, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Or in other words, {{efn}} is implemented by Template:Efn, with the predefined groups that Bsherr mentioned, whereas <ref>s are implemented by the Wikimedia software, with whatever group names you legally define. So they are not symmetric. And since the {{Efn}} template is not Wikimedia software, a Phab ticket doesn't seem like the right venue. Mathglot (talk) 09:49, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I see "unique" used to mean "distinct", when its precise meaning is the opposite. (Unique name means the same reference has only one name. Distinct names means two references don't have the same name.) I am unable to find the text to change the word. Where is the text? It appears to be linked by "refname rules", but where is that? Zaslav (talk) 23:34, 27 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]