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This arises from a discussion at Talk:2011#Computer games. It seems several users agree with me that having a section for computer and video games set in the year in question is silly, arbitrary, and completely inconsistent with the guidelines covering the other sections as there is nothing inherently internationally notable about what year a video game is set in. I therefore suggest that such sections be eliminated form RY articles. Beeblebrox (talk) 00:19, 22 January 2011 (UTC) Addendum The more I think about it the whole "in fiction" section has the same problem. Why do these items get a free pass to being mentioned here just because they specified a year that part or all of them are set in? I propose we eliminate such sections entirely. Beeblebrox (talk) 00:33, 22 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I cannot imagine a paper encyclopaedia having such a section. The only reason it's here is that we are using computers as the medium, and so attract a sizable proportion of computer game aficionados. Given the effort we put into keeping other trivial info out of this article, the presence of this section is inexplicable. HiLo48 (talk) 00:25, 22 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree, and somewhat agree with the OP's addendum. I would say video games are as valid a form of fiction as movies or television. I tend to think a paper encyclopedia would not have any "in fiction" section at all, except maybe an "in literature" section. And in that case they would be biased toward their medium (books). -- Ken_g6 (factors | composites) 00:37, 22 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

To be mentioned in the other sections it must be proven that an item has or will have international notability. All we require for this section is that subject say "this thing I made up is supposed to happen in 2011." What is internationally notable, or even notable at all, about that? In the future, when our readers look back at this article to try and understand what 2011 was all about, will it help that understanding at all for them to know that an episode of Future Shock or an installment of the Call of Duty video game franchise were based on completely fictionalized ideas of what 2011 might be like? I don't think so. Beeblebrox (talk) 20:33, 22 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I lean toward inclusion, provided that we have an article about the book, movie, or video game, and the setting isn't incidental. (For example, in FlashForward or Flashforward, the date of the endpoints of the "event" should be included, but not incidental dates of intermediate facts.) — Arthur Rubin (talk) 20:44, 22 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

May I ask why? Or more specifically, in what way will this information help our readers understand what 2011 was like? Since it is fiction I don't see how it has a place in an article about reality, and as I've mentioned it also terribly inconsistent with the criterion to be included in any other section. Could you also explain why an exemption to these high standards should be granted to works of fiction? Beeblebrox (talk) 21:11, 22 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It's not helpful in understanding what 2011 was like; it may be helpful in understanding how 2011 was perceived. (There seems to be some support for the assertion that a book or film released in YYYY referring to YYYY or YYYY+1 may not be notable. I realize this kills my example.)

And I lean toward inclusion on this matter, because, unlike the real world, whether a fictional work is internationally notable is more a matter of taste than of verifiable fact. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 21:50, 22 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Sometimes it's pretty clear, though, like with the book 1984. Wrad (talk) 22:11, 22 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I should have said, "... is often more a matter of taste ...". :-) — Arthur Rubin (talk) 22:19, 22 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• What about splitting it off into separate articles? As it's so far agreed that these entries don't add to the reader's understanding of the year in question, perhaps a sub-article, for example 2011 in fiction would be more appropriate, as the subject of the RY article is the reality of 2011? Beeblebrox (talk) 23:32, 22 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Yes please. HiLo48 (talk) 23:36, 22 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I would also add, in response to the remark about 1984, that Orwell simply reversed 1948, the year he wrote book, as 1984 was "the distant future" at that time, similar to how in 1968 Clarke chose 2001 as a far off time for 2001: A Space Odyssey, another novel whose predictions are not reflected in the reality of the year it was named for. 1984 is certainly an important (and great) work of fiction, but it has little to do with the real year 1984. Beeblebrox (talk) 00:45, 23 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not so sure. People can experience a "year" in fiction just as much as they can in real life, and that affects how they view the actual year. People often compare years in popular fiction to the actual state of things in the actual year. Their experiences with reading about a fictional year are just as "real" as the experience of the year itself, in the same sense that watching a play is a real experience, or walking through a park. Whether or not the author's choice for the year was haphazard, the reader does not know, so it has no or little effect on that experience. Wrad (talk) 01:01, 23 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I think it/they should be deleted, in most cases it is only incidental trivia. If people want to create Year in fiction sub-articles that would solve the problem without too much backlash. DerbyCountyinNZ ^{(Talk Contribs)} 00:58, 23 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I think inclusion of this sort of thing should only be done in very special cases, such as 1984, 2001: A Space Odyssey, or the 2012 craze--ideas about the future that have really taken hold on people's imaginations. This usually won't be the case for a video game. Wrad (talk) 01:01, 23 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. DerbyCountyinNZ ^{(Talk Contribs)} 03:51, 23 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Careful! Give them an inch and they'll take a mile, unless we set up some rules. For instance, how about fiction with the year named in the title and which was at least nominated for a national or international award (for the work itself) can go in the main year article? -- Ken_g6 (factors | composites) 06:12, 23 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

That's exactly why I think splitting it off is a good idea. If we agree that the fact that a work of fiction is set in a particular year is almost never notable enough to be mentioned in the main article on that year, it makes sense to simply spin off that content into a sub-article and then it is easy to be generous about including anything that can be verified to be set in that year. That should satisfy both concerns rather neatly. I mean really, I loved 2001: A space Odyssey, both the book and the movie, but as far as accurately depicting the year 2001, not even close. The only piece of advanced technology in the story that we have actually developed in the intervening 43 years is the picture phone. Beeblebrox (talk) 06:57, 23 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I suppose we do have precedent, in the split of 2012 in fiction from 2012 and 2012 phenomenon. It's OK with me to split them off, once consensus is obtained here and WP:RY is edited to reflect that consensus. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 00:45, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

This article tells me that Recent years articles should contain a section called "Major religious holidays". i.e. no "religious". In 2010 and 2011 the section has become "Major holidays", i.e. no "religious". That seems to have allowed days like New Years Day and Chinese New Year to sneak in. I know the former isn't a religious holiday, and I don't think the latter is either. Any problems with me cleaning this up?

For anyone who thinks this discussion seems familiar, I did raise it, in a different way because I was unaware of this guideline, at Talk:2011#American usage of Holiday - Wrong for other readers. It would still be nice if we could take into account the fact that the word "holiday" is used very differently inside and outside the USA. HiLo48 (talk) 01:55, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

There's something I'm not quite getting here. I understand that Americans use "holiday" to mean any day of celebration or commemoration of an event, and most other English speakers use it to mean "a vacation" but what I'm not clear on is what word they do use to indicate such a day if it is not "holiday." Beeblebrox (talk) 02:01, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]