THC Science

New criterion - T4, aka Template PROD

There is no consensus to create this as a new speedy deletion criteria for templates. Those opposing suggested that this might be better proposed as part of PROD, and that discussion could occur at WT:PROD. TonyBallioni (talk) 03:36, 6 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

I've been mulling this one over for a while now. One stalled discussion in January made me pause, but it's been mentioned to me a few times (most recently by Nihlus) and I think I'm going to put the question to rest.

At current we have no PROD-like system for Templates. We (obviously) have PROD for articles and F11 for images, but no way to quietly delete an unused template other than to clog up WP:TFD with nominations that almost everyone will !vote "delete" on.

I propose a new criterion, T4: If template is unused and shows no likelihood of being used, the item may be deleted seven days after notification of the creator. Templates deleted under this criterion would be refundable just like PRODs. This keeps some of the clutter out of TFD, still allows the creator to protest the nomination, and avoids gaming the system (one of my main issues that brought on the January discussion was the fact that users were nominating under G6 and G8 for unused templates).

Thoughts? Primefac (talk) 02:47, 5 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Support – Looks like you beat me to the punch, so it stands to reason that I completely support this. My drafted wording was: Templates that are unused–that is, are not transcluded in any pages, are not being actively substituted, are not used as a preload for another template, and are not used in any editnotice–may be deleted after being tagged for seven days. In addition, I was going through and gathering data on any TfD that used the "unused" argument. None of them were kept, and all but one was deleted. One resulted in no consensus. Nihlus 02:58, 5 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I like your wording better, though I think the after notification of the creator bit needs to stay in. Primefac (talk) 12:02, 5 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Let's try:
Templates that are unused–that is, are not transcluded in any pages, are not being actively substituted, are not used as a preload for another template, and are not used in any editnotice–may be deleted seven days after notifying the creator and being tagged.

Gets a little wordy but gets the point across. Nihlus 12:37, 5 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
So just add templates to the list of things that can be prodded? Why is this here? -- Tavix ^(talk) 03:01, 5 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Tavix: See the wording of T3. Nihlus 03:08, 5 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
So add templates to the list of things that can be PRODed and we won’t need T3 either... That would help a lot more than adding another criterion, and it’d simplify the system too. -- Tavix ^(talk) 03:12, 5 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
A PROD is a very vague "I don't expect issues" deletion. One could (in theory) set a prod tag on a sidebar or infobox that is in use with a perfectly valid rationale and it very well could be deleted. The point of this criteria is specifically for unused/never-going-to-be-used templates. Of course if a consensus develops to modify the wording of PROD, then that's what we'd go with, but I was looking for something a bit more specific. Primefac (talk) 11:59, 5 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
A PROD is simply for uncontroversial deletions, which seems to be your objective with the criterion (ie: to reduce the load at TfD). Adding templates to PROD would solve that issue, without muddying the waters further between PROD and CSD. -- Tavix ^(talk) 21:41, 10 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Since F4 to F7 and C1 have a seven-day horizon, in addition to F11 and T3 already mentioned, it seems too late to achieve a clean separation between PROD-like processes and true speedy deletion: Noyster (talk), 12:10, 5 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support so as to help free TfD of discussions with 10+ days between relistings. J947^{^{^{(c) (m)}}} 03:04, 5 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Question: How can you tell whether a template is being actively substituted? Doesn't substitution remove backlinks to the template? Regards So Why 12:25, 5 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- @SoWhy: {{Substonly}} should be transcluded on the documentation page. ~ Rob₁₃^Talk 12:33, 5 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  - This relies on the documentation being done correctly, which is not necessarily true. —Kusma (t·c) 12:41, 5 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    - Which is fine, because we give notice to the creator and a 7-day hold. If they're actively using their poorly-documented template, they can just remove the PROD. From experience, the vast majority of orphaned templates are not substitute only, and if they are, the majority of those are documented. The rest are usually pretty obviously substitute only. We then have to consider the trade-off between maybe having to undelete 5 templates that should have been documented better versus literally thousands of useless TfD discussions that require closers we don't have. The choice is pretty obvious. ~ Rob₁₃^Talk 12:51, 5 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  - (edit conflict × 2) I understand that but Nihlus' suggestion is to exempt templates that are not being actively substituted, so does that mean to exempt templates that have the {{Substonly}} tag on it (no matter if they are still used or not) or to exempt templates that are still being substituted? And if it's the latter, how can you tell? Regards So Why 13:02, 5 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support per my comment above. ~ Rob₁₃^Talk 12:51, 5 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Only if... Ideally, PROD shouldn't be used for templates for the simple reason it's not used for redirects: they don't have enough watchers. In practice, however, I don't think this is going to lead to less scrutiny in the deletion of templates, given the low participation at TfD and its overall bias for deletion (e.g. a discussion consisting only of the nomination and a comment expressing doubts about the validity of the nominator's rationale, is as likely to be closed as "delete" as it is to get relisted or closed as "no consensus"). If a PROD-like process gets adopted, then it should have two explicit requirements: 1) The nominator should have made the effort to notify interested parties. Minimally, this should involve notifying the creator as well as a relevant wikiproject (for example by project-tagging the template's talk page, provided the wikiproject is active and subscribed to the article alerts). 2) An explicit check for substitutions must have been made by either the nominator or the deleting admin. This check is important for two reasons: a) most of the regular TfD nominators so far don't seem to have had the habit of checking for substitutions and that burden has traditionally been with the participants in the discussion (and no, the template's documentation is not enough: hardly any of the subst-only templates that get nominated as "unused" are documented as being subst-only); b) a check for substitutions will be able to pick the occasional case where template content has been merged into an article (or another template) and its history will need to be preserved for attribution. – Uanfala 10:24, 6 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- If projects want to keep track of their templates, they must tag them themselves. We cannot be responsible for knowing every WikiProject out there; such a requirement is crazy. ~ Rob₁₃^Talk 10:38, 6 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  - Crazy would be to expect projects to keep track of stuff they have no way of know of knowing it exists. Projects can come into the picture only once a page has been tagged. – Uanfala 10:50, 6 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    - Uanfala, which project should be notified for e.g. Template:AFv5 hidden, or Template:Acd (now up for deletion), or Template:Agent? Fram (talk) 11:07, 6 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
      - In the few cases when there are no relevant projects, then no projects should be notified. Aren't we supposed to use common sense when applying the rules? – Uanfala 11:12, 6 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
      - Incidentally, Template:AFv5 hidden is within the scope of Wikipedia:WikiProject User warnings, and Template:Agent is relevant for Wikipedia:WikiProject Infoboxes (I don't know how active these are). Of course, it can be argued that if there's no way to make a nomination noticed by wikiprojects (or by other interested editors), then TfD should be the way to nominate the template for deletion. – Uanfala 11:22, 6 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
        I'm not going to search around if there is perhaps some project which may or may not be related to a template created years before and never used. Rules making it harder to do simple maintenance, without a clear benefit, should not be imposed, as we are not a bureaucracy. Fram (talk) 11:31, 6 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- Projects interested in monitoring certain templates should use the WP:Article alerts system. --Izno (talk) 12:51, 6 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support with no requirement to notify some morbid wikiproject about some template no one is using. Lighten the kiad at TfD. Legacypac (talk) 20:50, 6 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose unless there is are explicit requirements that: (1) the nominator and deleting admin both check for templates being actively substituted, and (2) all substantial editors to the template (not just the creator) are notified, and (3) all projects that have tagged the template and/or are clearly relevant are notified. Article alerts are not enough imo and alerting inactive projects is not a burden. I don't expect nominators to do a deep search of all potentially relevant projects, but if a template is related to e.g. a geographical place then the project for that country should be notified even if they haven't tagged it, similarly anything that gives a warning to editors is relevant to Wikipedia:WikiProject User warnings even if they have never heard of it before. Thryduulf (talk) 11:34, 9 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose as proposed. The opinion about a template's likelihood of being used can vary from editor to editor. That, and unfortunately, we have no way to determine substitution counts to validate how useful a template might be in regards to substitutions. Best to keep template deletion proposals at WP:TFD so that editors can determine if an unused template can be saved or used appropriately. Steel1943 (talk) 20:37, 10 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose as proposed. I've been thinking about this for a bit, but I don't think it makes sense to insert a PROD-like process into CSD. I would, however, support the addition of templates to the list of things that are PROD-able since it seems the reason for this is to help unclog TfD. -- Tavix ^(talk) 21:24, 10 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Tavix: As explained above, F4, F5, F6, F7, F11, C1, and T3 all have the seven day window. This PROD-like process you speak of was introduced into CSD a long time ago. Nihlus 21:30, 10 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
This is literally a "Template PROD", as nicknamed from the header. It would be less complicated to simply add templates to WP:PROD (like what was done with files a few months back) rather than a new CSD blurring those lines even further. -- Tavix ^(talk) 21:34, 10 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Your argument seems to rely solely on semantics. T3 exists so it is essentially a template PROD already. There's no metaphorical line to be blurred as it already has been defined. Nihlus 21:38, 10 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
If "template PROD" already essentially exists, as you claim, then there should be no issues with adding templates to PROD. If "Template PROD" is actually added, then we can simplify the CSD list by deprecating the "un-speedy" criteria if desired. Instead, you're trying to add more criteria to CSD, which in my opinion is not the right way to achieve the objectives stated above. -- Tavix ^(talk) 21:45, 10 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- Sorry to be pointing out the obvious, but there's a substantial difference between the PROD-like process proposed here and the kinds of speedy deletion criteria that happen to incorporate time delay. F4, F5, F6, F7, F11 are there to deal with likely copyright infringements and so are need for the fundamental purpose of staying on the right side of the law; T3 is for the removal of duplication (and hence the template-space flavour of A10); C1 is for empty categories, where this is virtually a technical deletion, where the non-technical and potentially controversial part of the process has already been done by its emptying (and hence anyone would have already objected before this point). These are all inherently uncontroversial deletions, which is definitely not the case for templates that appear unused, at least not any more than it would be the case that it's uncontroversial to have a speedy deletion criterion for orphaned articles. – Uanfala 22:00, 10 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The definition of CSD, from the very first sentence of WP:CSD is "The criteria for speedy deletion (CSD) specify the only cases in which administrators have broad consensus to bypass deletion discussion, at their discretion, and immediately delete Wikipedia pages or media" (my emphasis added). If we have a seven-day delay, then it's not immediate—let's not add another violation of this. Thankfully, the addition of File PROD has rendered the F time-delay criteria redundant. That leaves C1 and T3. I understand the delay for C1, but even empty categories can be a controversial deletion if there's articles to populate them, so I rather have a category PROD than C1. I don't see the point of having a time delay for T3. If there is substantial duplication of another template, that's still going to be the case seven days later, so I would support removing the delay for that criterion. -- Tavix ^(talk) 22:23, 10 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose - This one doesn't seem to qualify as "speedy" to me. There are enough, if not too many, criteria using the seven-day period, like F7, which I think are starting to become more redundant to me. I'm thinking that "Template PROD" can be re-proposed with slight tweaks, Primefac, at either WT:PROD or WP:VPP. It doesn't have to be part of the CSD, does it? Thoughts? --George Ho (talk) 05:59, 21 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Mostly technical oppose: Isn't this a proposal to expand PROD to templates? I think WT:PROD would be a better place. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 11:26, 21 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

F9 and XfDs

At Wikipedia:Village_pump_(policy)#Consensus_and_copyright_law, it was pointed out to me by Adam9007 that while we do list G12 as a reason to delete a page regardless of the outcome of an XfD, F9 is not listed here. Is there a reason why it isn't? I'd also highly suggest that we go ahead and add it: consensus cannot override copyright law, and this is already acknowledge in the policy by having G12 listed as a reason to delete a page that has survived an XfD. TonyBallioni (talk) 02:07, 6 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I do think it's rather queer that we must technically go to FfD if a file has survived FfD and it later turns out to be an obvious copyright violation. Copyright is something that the participants at the first FfD may not have considered. Adam9007 (talk) 02:13, 6 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I've gone ahead and added F9 to that list: [1]. No objections raised here and G12 is already listed and also applies to the file namespace, so logically F9 does as well. TonyBallioni (talk) 03:14, 9 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed additional guidance for G4

I am a non-admin, and having just been chastised for tagging an article with G4 wrongly, I think the guidance for its use should be expanded as follows:

Non-administrators do not have access to articles that have been deleted as a result of an Articles for Deletion discussion. They should therefore only nominate an article for speedy deletion under the G4 criteria if there is certainty that the new article is substantially identical, for example through familiarity with the article prior to its deletion.

See also archived discussion here. Curb Safe Charmer (talk) 20:16, 20 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I think this is pretty well assumed most of the time. Usually the best course of action is to reach out to your friendly neighborhood admin and get them to do a quick check to see if they are sufficiently identical. GMG ^talk 20:18, 20 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

That suggestion could also feature in the guidance. Curb Safe Charmer (talk) 20:22, 20 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Shifting perspective to the editing flow when a new instance is created by the name of a previously deleted page, the red-highlighted instructions are clear: ”If you are creating a new page with different content, please continue. If you are recreating a page similar to the previously deleted page, or are unsure, please first contact the user(s) who performed the action(s) listed below.” If contributors follow those instructions, a repost susceptible to CSD G4 should never arise. But it does.

The proposed definition combines “certainty” with “substantially identical” in a responsibility on the tagger. That remains interpretive and easily gamed against non-admin editors. I see no virtue in constructing another situation which can result in negative feedback on the judgment of reviewers seeking to deal honestly with reposts which are often system-gaming by people with a direct interest in achieving a published article.

If non-admins are going to be susceptible to negative comments after proposing CSD G4, then I suggest the second sentence of the proposed guidance should instead become ”Instead of nominating the new article for speedy deletion under the G4 criteria, they should open a new Articles for Deletion discussion, with a rationale which suggests that it may be a repost of the article previously deleted under this or a variant name.” The downside is an(other) uplift in AfD workload, but the merit is that it provides the non-admin with a decisive above-board process. AllyD (talk) 09:42, 21 November 2017 (UTC),[reply]

If a new page patroller believes in good faith that something is a recreation (standard case: something that was deleted just minutes ago), they should tag the new page for G4. The reviewing admin should also assume good faith, and either delete or un-tag without making the tagger feel bad about it. It is not reasonable to expect perfection from the tagger here, and it is explicitly an admin job to check whether something is or is not a G4. (There are cases when it is clearly wrong to tag something previously deleted as G4: say, something was deleted as lacking sources in 2006, and there are reliable sources from 2017 about something the subject did in the past ten years cited in the article). —Kusma (t·c) 09:50, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
In other words, I think Nyttend is wrong about the general principle that you should only tag when you are sure that it is a repost (i.e. only when you are an admin and don't need to tag). However, I don't think the grumpy reply Curb Safe Charmer received necessitates any change in procedures. They tagged something in good faith, they were wrong, the page was not deleted, no harm done. In any case, the main mistake Curb Safe Charmer made here is the following: The existence of an AFD for a person does not mean we should have to delete a draft about the same person. If any "abuse" of process occurred here, it is in the fact that drafts are not usually covered by a previous AFD, only by a previous MFD. —Kusma (t·c) 10:02, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
not sure this worked, so pinging @Nyttend: with my apologies for any double pings. —Kusma (t·c) 10:03, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
This would be a very good addition. The policy is clear, and should remain clear, that this is for reposts, not different pages on the same topic, let alone different pages on a different topic with the same name, as I've periodically seen. If someone comes to me and says "Would you compare Page X against the deleted version, and let me know if they're identical", I'll happily look into the situation and answer; sometimes this doesn't require admin rights, since a page with more than a few major edits has no chance of being a repost, but I'll always be happy to answer the question. I am not at all happy to see people abusing the criterion by tagging without a shred of evidence, as was done here (you might as well just tag a music article for A9 without checking to see whether the musician has an article), but if you're asking, I'll always be happy to help, whether it's "here's the answer" or "please glance at the article history; it's changed too much to be a repost". I would make some changes to the proposal, also: first, G4 is for everything, so it should refer to XFD not AFD. Non-admins sometimes can find deleted content; you can find pages on archive.org, and the last "you shouldn't have speedied this" objection I received came from someone who based his argument on a Google-cached version. Perhaps the proposal should say something like "for example through familiarity with the article prior to its deletion, or through viewing an archived version, or by virtue of in-article evidence such as maintenance tags that predate its creation." Nyttend (talk) 12:16, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
On the contrary, this would be a very bad addition. Nyttend's proposal undermines G4 whichever way it plays out.

Nominator leaves a note on Admin's talk page suggesting Article may be a G4 recreation. Admin investigates & confirms.

At this point what happens? Does Admin, knowing the article is a recreation, officiously confirm this to Nominator and insist that Nominator tags the article with a G4 notice, which Admin then responds to by deleting the article? A two step process has now become a five step process.

Or does Admin delete Article? A public, open process has now become a private deletion-on-request process which is prone to WP:ADMINSHOPping.

Far better that Admin accepts that, in the two-handed process which all CSD nominations are, the balance falls more heavily on the Admin than the Nominator when assessment of G4 is concerned.

So long as the material in the article still has the flaws mentioned in the AFD discussion which led to the original deletion G4 is appropriate. Only where the new article is obviously different to the article discussed in the AFD is any admonishment appropriate.

The guidance proposed fundamentally changes the nature of G4. For that reason, I oppose it. Cabayi (talk) 19:07, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The specific example given (Draft:Jeffrey Guterman) was a draft tagged for G4 because an article on the subject was deleted in mainspace, which isn't an appropriate use of the criterion. Even if the content was identical to the deleted version it still likely wouldn't qualify for G4. If some content isn't considered suitable for mainspace then it's perfectly OK for someone to work on it in draftspace to bring it up to standards, and the wording of G4 says that drafts don't qualify for G4 unless the material was moved there in order to evade deletion. I don't think the suggested change is a good idea, I think a better course of action is for admins to be aware that non-admin taggers haven't got all the evidence in front of them. Hut 8.5 19:17, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Fully agree, also with what Cabayi said above. Tagging for G4 basically means "I think this is a recreation, could you check please?" which is a good idea imho if done in good faith. After all, all taggings are merely a user asking for an admin to check whether the page meets a certain criterion and if so, act accordingly. Restricting non-admins in the proposed way makes NPP harder, not easier, without any real benefit. Regards So Why 19:26, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps we could change the SD-G4 text to make it sound less certain. or even add a SD-G4? template to say the tagger thinks it might apply. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 07:52, 22 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

It already says "This page may meet Wikipedia's criteria for speedy deletion" (emphasis mine). No speedy deletion template is a definite claim, they are all potential. Whether a page meets the CSD or not is always ultimately decided by the admin working through CAT:CSD, not by the tagger. —Kusma (t·c) 08:50, 22 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

You must not tag a page for any sort of speedy if you can't provide evidence that it qualifies, and I'm routinely encountering tags that are placed with no evidence whatsoever. That's not good faith: it's recklessness at best and deception at worst. We need to make a firmer statement that this is inappropriate and give some examples of what a good-faith user does. Nyttend (talk) 12:56, 22 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I'm as strict when it comes to speedy deletion as they come but even I think that's a too strict interpretation of policy. As Kusma points out, the speedy templates use the wording "may meet" since 2005, so I think it's pretty clear that the community has always considered tagging a request to check applicability of the speedy criteria. Regards So Why 13:11, 22 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Wrong: You must not tag a page for any sort of speedy unless you can't provide evidence for why you believe it qualifies. Evidence, in this case, is the link to the previous AfD. What is reckless is not non-admins tagging pages without definite proof (just based on the best of their knowledge), it is admins deleting tagged pages without checking the evidence and page history. —Kusma (t·c) 17:37, 22 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I do a lot of CSD tagging but G4 is essentially useless to a non-Admin as we can't check the deleted page and I perceive the stand to be "identical" to the deleted page based on Admin's actions when I tried to use G4 in the past. I've had too many Admins come down on me for alleged "incorrect tagging" even though my CSD accept track record is extremely high. Therefore I don't even use G4. I never see an Admin sanctioned for bad accepts or declines on CSDs yet I've seen Admins make such mistakes. This discussion shows there is a wide range of Admin opinion on how to treat G4 anyway. Legacypac (talk) 18:45, 22 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that there's a power differential here. The "substantially identical" wording applies to the admin making the deletion decision, not to the editor tagging it. Tagging a draft as G4 is already wrong, per the current wording of G4, but we shouldn't expect editors to compare articles to Deletionpedia before placing a G4 tag. Good faith on the part of the tagger should be enough; the admin has the tools, and the buck stops with them. Jclemens (talk) 19:40, 22 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

In my pre-admin days I sometimes applied G4 on the basis of archived copies of the deleted page. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 19:44, 22 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Edit requests

WP:C2

Hi, this page should mention WP:C2 (speedy rename), which is currently available only in a section of WP:CFD. 165.91.12.213 (talk) 03:15, 29 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

CSD A7

Maybe explicitly state that fictional characters, organizations, etc. (besides hoaxes) do not qualify for A7? The same would also be true for A9. 165.91.13.204 (talk) 01:26, 29 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

New criterion: C4

I’m proposing a new criterion for:

recently created categories that unambiguously duplicate the scope of an existing category and where all members unambiguously fail the inclusion criteria, are already in the other category, are themselves nominated for speedy deletion, or can be uncontroversially added to the other category.

Categories like these sometimes come up in WP:CfD, and this criterion could mitigate some of the trivial nominations. The case where addition to the category would be uncontroversial is called speedy merge. It would also be in line with WP:A10. I’m open to suggestions. 165.91.13.204 (talk) 01:22, 29 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Not done. This page, for the most part, is set in stone. I've been here for years and I bet if I made these changes without getting consensus, they'd be reverted by the very first admin who happened by. You're an ostensibly new user and you're trying to get a wide range of unprecedented changes via edit requests. Maybe instead, would you mind creating an account then starting a discussion here? CityOfSilver 06:18, 29 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I've added C2; it's just a housekeeping note for an established thing, unlike tweaking the wording of existing criteria or adding a new criterion. Nyttend (talk) 20:42, 5 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Removing speedy tags on your uploads

We're all familiar with "The creator of a page may not remove a speedy deletion tag from it." Of course, we don't apply this in 100% of cases; nobody will complain at you if you remove a U1 or G7 tag, in particular. But how do we apply it to files that have been tagged with delete-in-several-days tags if the problem has been resolved? For example, let's say I upload an own-work image with no license, so you tag it with {{nld}} and notify me, and I go and add a license. May I remove the tag, since the problem's been resolved, or must I leave it, since I'm the uploader? Whether in the intro or somewhere else, we ought to say something about such a situation; it's hardly an uncommon occurrence. Nyttend (talk) 20:39, 5 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed additional criterion: Redirect from "branding"

This is mostly inspired by abuse of the redirect system regarding radio stations' "branding", but it applies in other areas too...

There are some redirects to radio station articles where the name of the redirect is the station's "branding". For example, WBZ-FM calls itself on-air 98.5 The Sports Hub. And there is a redirect to WBZ-FM from that name.

I propose that such redirects are inappropriate, must as the radio fans love to create them. Redirects are supposed to be a convenience for readers, but it is very unlikely that anybody is going to type "98.5 The Sports Hub" into the search box. Nor are these "common names" for the stations - I guarantee you that nobody in Boston goes around saying "I listen to 98.5 the sports hub", nor in my town do they say "I listen to Newsradio 600 KOGO". These "brands" appear only in the station's jingle package and on the sides of their vans.

Just about everybody outside the station's coverage area will be completely unfamiliar with the "brand", further reducing the utility of these redirects.

Worse, radio stations change their "branding" often. This results in a detritus of useless redirects. NewsRadio 99-1 redirects to WDCH-FM, but the latter article does not even mention the term "newsradio". These "brandings" are really nothing more than the most-often-repeated slogan. And we don't redirect from slogans. Do we?

Not all "brands" are bad. It would be fine for "Pontiac" to rd to "General Motors" (if it didn't already have its own article). But these very transient "brandings" are far less worthy. I suggest a new CSD for redirects, "redirect from transient branding". Jeh (talk) 23:18, 6 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]