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As established in the discussion above, "taking one's own life" seems to be ''the'', or at least ''a'' dictionary definition of suicide, and so ought to be listed among the recommended alternatives for those who wish to avoid the phrase "commit(ted) suicide". I understand that the list is not intended to be comprehensive, but there is an unfortunate tendency among editors to treat it as such, for which reason I think that something as ubiquitous and literal as this dictionary definition ought to be specifically listed to avoid such confusion. Since I was the editor who started the above discussion, I hesitate to modify the list in accordance with my own interpretation. [[User:P Aculeius|P Aculeius]] ([[User talk:P Aculeius|talk]]) 14:37, 22 May 2023 (UTC)
As established in the discussion above, "taking one's own life" seems to be ''the'', or at least ''a'' dictionary definition of suicide, and so ought to be listed among the recommended alternatives for those who wish to avoid the phrase "commit(ted) suicide". I understand that the list is not intended to be comprehensive, but there is an unfortunate tendency among editors to treat it as such, for which reason I think that something as ubiquitous and literal as this dictionary definition ought to be specifically listed to avoid such confusion. Since I was the editor who started the above discussion, I hesitate to modify the list in accordance with my own interpretation. [[User:P Aculeius|P Aculeius]] ([[User talk:P Aculeius|talk]]) 14:37, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

:Given that your report at [[Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Disruptive editing: mass replacement of "committed suicide"]] is still being discussed (87 comments so far), now is probably not the time for you to propose any changes to MOS:SUICIDE at all. Or maybe even this year. [[User:WhatamIdoing|WhatamIdoing]] ([[User talk:WhatamIdoing|talk]]) 00:01, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

Revision as of 00:01, 24 May 2023

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To-do list

  • Add advice on how to incorporate the psychological, emotional, and social effects of health problems into articles.
    • should be infused throughout
    • may need some subsections, e.g., reaction to a life-threatening diagnosis
    • I support this one—and not just because I'm a psychologist! ;-) ... We have had discussion about this topic before. Let's link to such archived discussions, e.g., this one from 2008. Mark D Worthen PsyD (talk) [he/his/him] 14:36, 5 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Add advice on how to present costs.
    • accuracy ("the wholesale list price in Ruritania in 2017 according to Alice", not "the price")
    • WP:MEDMOS2020 results
    • any recommended metrics, such as cost effectiveness, cost per DALY averted,[1] etc.
  • Add statement about gender-neutral language.
    • Avoid unexpected neutrality for subjects very strongly associated with one biological sex (e.g., pregnancy, menstruation, and ovarian cancer affect "women"[2]; prostate cancer and orchiditis affect "men") but encourage gender neutrality for all others (e.g., heart disease)?
    • Defer to MOS for any individual person.
  • Reading levels
  • How to talk about suicide-related content (e.g., the "committed" RFC)
    • I've added a statement about the word "commit", and alternative phrasings. Bibeyjj (talk) 12:10, 28 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Clarify how to include "evolution" in anatomy articles (suggest under "Development" subheading). Bibeyjj (talk) 18:52, 6 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • (Your idea here)

What to do with this to-do list?

It's not clear to me if the above "To-do list" is a WikiProject Medicine effort, i.e., something we, as a WikiProject, have decided (via consensus) to establish, or if it was one (unidentified) editor's idea, or something else. Can someone clarify? Mark D Worthen PsyD (talk) [he/his/him] 03:51, 4 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

This is a collection of items that various conversations and disputes have indicated (a) it might be helpful for MEDMOS to address but (b) exactly what the consensus is or how to address the subject in MEDMOS will require further discussion.
Any editor is welcome to add a suggested topic to the list. It doesn't have to be a subject that you personally care about or relates to an article you were editing. Please add enough context that we can figure out what your subject is later.
If you feel ready to address one of the topics, then please start a new ==section== at the end of the page to ask a question or make a proposal. WhatamIdoing (talk) 06:53, 5 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Please don't start discussions in this section. Please do add links to prior discussions and examples or other details that you think will be helpful (signed or not, as you choose) when we have the real discussions. WhatamIdoing (talk) 16:35, 5 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

"Omit information about suicide notes"

Hm? If such a note existed and was covered by reliable sources, surely it should be at least briefly discussed, even if we need not assume it was perfectly accurate as to the motivations of the dead person. CharredShorthand (talk) 14:50, 8 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I'm inclined to agree. At the very least it seems this guidance is not currently being followed. As a couple of arbitrary examples, see Clara Blandick and Kurt Cobain (Cobain's suicide note is reproduced in full!). Does anyone recall why this guidance was added? The context makes me think it's to recommend against speculation and over-interpreting a single (if final) note. But maybe the rest of the text provides that guidance just fine without an explicit prohibition on mentioning suicide notes? Ajpolino (talk) 15:27, 8 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
This is one of multiple questionable additions under the suicide section of MEDMOS. If it's of encyclopedic value, it should be added. Natureium (talk) 23:42, 8 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Editors often do not often display good "just because you can doesn't mean you should" judgement. This is particularly true of news events making their way into Wikipedia out of all balance with the subject as a whole encyclopaedic article. Generally a good encyclopaedic biographical article will end up more like an obituary than a sequence of news reports throughout their life and ending with the final report, because it considers the person's life and influence as a whole. Organisations like Samaritans discourage the reporting of suicide notes as it can romanticise suicide and lead readers to identify with the deceased and their motive. It can also be distressing for the relatives and friends. Yes I know you are thinking WP:NOTCENSORED thoughts right now but that is countered by WP:GRATUITOUS and WP:NOTGOSSIP which is very much a "just because you find it all gruesomely fascinating while eating your cornflakes this morning doesn't mean it is actually encyclopaedic". That their death is notable doesn't mean everything about their death is relevant to an encyclopaedic article. All guidelines are just guidelines and I think this is a reasonable default to take and for editors to argue there is a strong encyclopaedic reason to include these details. That could well be argued about Cobain but the paragraph about Blandick's death seems very much "someone found this information on Google books and inserted it with minor rephrasing on Wikipedia" for no good reason at all than morbid curiosity. I mean, she was 85. -- Colin°Talk 15:57, 9 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I would support something less absolute though still firm, perhaps vaguely like "Avoid undue coverage, gossip, and speculation about suicide notes. Prefer to omit information about them unless it has significant encyclopedic value." (Not at all attached to this wording, just the rough sentiment.)
I realise that at the meta-level we have IAR and whatnot, but that does not mean guidelines should be written too strictly with the expectation that they will be regularly disregarded under definable circumstances. CharredShorthand (talk) 16:18, 9 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
What makes you think they are regularly disregarded? For example, if today's reliable newspaper sources follow the guidelines by Samaritans and similar (which many do) there won't be the details of such notes to cover. I clicked on all 55 articles in Category:2022 suicides and only Vitaliano Trevisan gave some details of a note, sourced to what looks to be local paper. -- Colin°Talk 17:02, 9 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
If there are no reliable sources describing the note, then a MOS guideline on the matter is moot - it can't be included regardless.
Even so, I said "regularly"; I suppose I should have used less strong phrasing myself. My point is if RSes have significant coverage of a suicide note - as with eg. Suicide of Kurt Cobain - then it probably merits some mention, so in such cases we should routinely expect the guideline to be disregarded. Hence, it might be better for the guideline to be open to such a possibility rather than being phrased in absolutes. CharredShorthand (talk) 17:52, 9 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Yes but my point is that modern suicides do not include details of any note. That standards were lower in newspapers in the past isn't necessarily a reason why we have to behave like its 1962.
I wouldn't count Cobain as routine and you haven't given any evidence that (a) our biographical articles often include details of a suicide note or (b) that they are often better for for doing so. The Trevisan article I found linked to a newspaper article that was basically all gossip and speculation. It's trash.
For guideline exceptions, at level one, we have at the top of every guideline "though it is best treated with common sense, and occasional exceptions may apply". You've mentioned the most notable suicide in modern pop culture. I'd count that as an occasional exception. The next level of "explaining the obvious of what a guideline means" would be to cavate everything "generally" or "typically", which will get tedious. And the next level again is what you proposed where we have to caveat everything with "unless it has significant encyclopedic value". I don't think we should write guidelines in such a hand-holding way that assumes our editors are unable to function unless everything exception is spelled out.
So I think that to reduce "omit" to "generally omit" we'd really need some better evidence that quite often the project is improved by not omitting this detail. -- Colin°Talk 18:15, 9 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I'd support that wording @CharredShorthand. I agree the problem isn't mention of notes per se, it's coverage that's undue and gossip-y. Colin, the fact that few of our articles on people who died by suicide in 2022 mention a note hardly seems relevant. Even if your suggestion is correct and news organizations will not be covering suicide notes going forward, we still write and maintain many many biographies of folks who died before 2022.
As a broader point that may be more trouble than it's worth, I think material like this really belongs at Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Biography. This page is mostly read/watched by folks who write medical content. Suicide is nearly unique to biographies, which draw a much broader editing base. For what it's worth, MEDMOS begins This is the style guide for editing medical articles, a label you'd be stretching to apply to most biographies MOS:SUICIDE applies to. Ajpolino (talk) 18:53, 9 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I think MOS:SUICIDE is correct. I'm not sure that the NFCC rationale for the image in Kurt Cobain#Death would hold up under scrutiny; the section mentions its existence and some of its contents, but it doesn't analyze it or explain why its visual appearance is important to understanding Cobain. For that article, it's a relevant image but not a necessary one (e.g., in the way that it would be difficult to understand a painting if you had no idea what the painting looked like).
I would also not recommend the text in that section as a model of encyclopedic writing. It sounds like a magazine or a fansite. For example:
  • Does an encyclopedic summary need to mention that he overdosed one day, after drinking "champagne"? (Do we even know that it was champagne? Is there something special or relevant about the type of alcohol? Maybe it's enough to say "overdosed", or "overdosed on alcohol and a drug".)
  • Does an encyclopedic summary need to mention that he went outside to smoke a cigarette?
  • Does an encyclopedic summary need to mention that he took a taxi to the airport?
  • Does an encyclopedic summary need to name the person who discovered his death? See Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons#Presumption in favor of privacy
I suggest also contrasting this with some other high-profile deaths. The sections on John F. Kennedy#Assassination and funeral are half as long as Cobain's. Elizabeth II#Death is a third the length. Robin Williams is a third the length. Anthony Bourdain#Death is a mere 117 words. There's a whole article at Suicide of Kurt Cobain if someone really feels an urge to catalog every single person who might have seen him during the week before his death. These sorts of trivial detail don't need to be in the main article. They probably don't need to be in Wikipedia at all. WhatamIdoing (talk) 23:20, 15 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The Wikipedia community generally does not display much understanding of "Just because you can, doesn't mean you should". An encyclopaedic article probably shouldn't go into this level of detail, for all sorts of reasons, but the information is on the internet and some eejit gave a speech about the sum of all human knowledge and here we are. Nobody gets that we're supposed to summarise the encyclopaedic bits of that. -- Colin°Talk 09:32, 16 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I don't see anything wrong with including the detail provided that reliable sources report it. It seems totally harmless to me. For instance, why is it wrong to say champagne instead of the less informative alcohol? How does the project gain by getting rid of the detail? How do readers gain? Are we protecting them from accidentally learning something we think they don't absolutely need to know? Some people enjoy reading Wikipedia to pick up little facts like that in a variety of areas. Small bits of information connect to other things and give us a deeper understanding.
I understand the BLPPRIVACY argument, but the other ones just don't make sense. Do we need to do anything? The question should not be "is it at all possible for us to avoid mentioning this" - we are not in the business of saying as little as we can. CharredShorthand.talk; 13:50, 16 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The point I suppose is that "little facts" and "small bits of information" (aka trivia) are not what Wikipedia should be dealing in; as an encyclopedia it should be a serious repository of summarized accepted knowledge (the layer above facts and information), not tittle-tattle. Bon courage (talk) 14:14, 16 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The truth is all knowledge is made of small component bits of information. The idea that it's more serious or less "tittle-tattle" to refuse to mention champagne in favor of providing less detail seems to have little grounding in any useful aim - as long as it's clearly established in a reliable source that it was champagne, and as long as mentioning the information does not entail a long detour that takes away from the article's focus (which here it would not, compared to saying merely that it was "alcohol" instead).
Similarly, mentioning the taxi is one short sentence which makes the sequence of events and spatial arrangement of the various locations clearer to the reader - which aids in overall comprehension. CharredShorthand.talk; 14:52, 16 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Knowledge is a layer on top of facts (analysis, synthesis, etc.) If there is some decent commentary on the alcohol aspect then that could be interesting, but otherwise WP:NOTEVERYTHING applies. Wikipedia is not a miscellany of factoids. Bon courage (talk) 15:37, 16 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Some examples bring their own unique issues that distract the point. This one is a musician more famous for his death than he would have been had he just grown old. That people are obsessed with it, and that some of those people are on Wikipedia, means we get an article overloaded with detail to an unjustified excess. It is boring to read, frankly, as we've got Kurt Cobain (extended edition) whether you wanted it or not.
Aside from that anomalous example, sudden death causes newspaper reports which are easy low-hanging-fruit sources for information over-focused on that one event, which in the grand scheme of someone's life, may not be that important. -- Colin°Talk 15:41, 16 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@CharredShorthand, the point isn't that the reader is hurt by the detail "champagne". The point is that a collection of tiny details is not an encyclopedic summary. I'm not trying to protect the reader. I'm trying to write an encyclopedia article. Encyclopedia articles are not collections of trivia.
For example: Do you need to know that he took a taxi to the airport? Does it matter that it was a taxi instead of a bus or a rented car? Does it matter that he flew from LAX instead of from Long Beach or Burbank? Why say "He took a taxi to Los Angeles Airport and flew back to Seattle" instead of just "He then flew home to Seattle"? Encyclopedia articles get straight to the main points. Fansites and magazine articles are the place for trivial details. WhatamIdoing (talk) 19:52, 16 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

If this guidance hasn't been discussed recently: "Best Practices and Recommendations for Reporting on Suicide" Kolya Butternut (talk) 23:43, 15 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Proscribed language for describing suicide

"There are many other appropriate, common, and encyclopedic ways to describe a suicide" sounds like reasonable and sensible guidance for editors, just as is avoiding euphemisms is for this—and most other topics. However, one editor, User:Ideasmete, seems to have decided that the examples following this guidance are the only acceptable descriptions, and is excising other phrases referring to suicide. In at least four separate Roman history articles, he or she has replaced the phrase "took his own life" with "killed himself", describing the former as a "euphemism", using various bots—and manually reverted all attempts to restore the previous language, despite claiming, on his talk page, that he has "no opinion on this" and that I needed to take it up on the bot's talk page, which I did—and the bot was then restructured to remove the phrase from the list of text to replace, but this morning more edits of the same kind attributed to Ideasmete using the JWB bot are appearing.

Now, "taking one's life" is idiomatic in English, but it is clearly not a euphemism. Our article on the subject explains that:

a euphemism is an innocuous word or expression used in place of one that is deemed offensive or suggests something unpleasant. Some euphemisms are intended to amuse, while others use bland, inoffensive terms for concepts that the user wishes to downplay. Euphemisms may be used to mask profanity or refer to topics some consider taboo such as disability, sex, excretion, or death in a polite way."

The phrase in question does nothing to avoid or disguise what is occurring using metaphorical language or circumlocution. It is clear, straightforward, and of venerable use in scholarly literature—including encyclopedias. There is nothing unencyclopedic about it. In contrast, several of the examples, including "died by suicide", are somewhat euphemistic, since they are used in order to avoid the perceived "stigma" of the word commit—but this doesn't seem to preclude their use.

So the question is, is the list of phrases mentioned intended to exclude all other expressions describing suicide—a comprehensive list of the only allowed language, as Ideasmete advocates on the bot's talk page (after having rebuffed my attempt to discuss it on his own talk page, claiming that he had no opinion about the matter)? I realize that unlike this page, WP:BRD is an essay, and not a policy or guideline, and so I was mistaken in asserting that the burden rests with the editor who wants to make a controversial change—that is, the editor whose change has been reverted—to establish a consensus for making it before re-reverting. However, by the same token it seems inappropriate for him to forbid me to revert his changes unless I first establish consensus for doing so, as he has done in multiple edit summaries.

Ideasmete thinks that his language is clearer and more straightforward, and therefore better. I don't think that there's anything unclear or confusing about "took his own life" or similar phrases. When something can be said in many different ways, is the one that some editor decides is "the best" the only one allowed? Are Wikipedia's guidelines for describing suicide meant to maintain an encyclopedic tone, or to impose linguistic orthodoxy? I assume the former—and apologize if this comes across like a screed, rather than a question—but is "took his own life" really so confusing and ridiculous that it must be replaced by "killed himself" wherever and whenever it occurs? P Aculeius (talk) 14:16, 21 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

A bit of background, Smasongarrison added this to the list of typos that AWB fixes automatically in June 2022. The whole subsection of "euphemisms" that AWB corrects are suicide-related and added by Smasongarrison in that edit. Best I can tell this was a bold addition, obviously done with the best of intentions. P Aculeis raised the issue at the AWB/Typos talk page, and was told to take it up here. The AWB suicide rules are suspended in the meantime.
I don't have a strong opinion on the merits of "taking one's own life" as a phrase for suicide. But I do think the AWB euphemism section is inappropriate and goes well beyond the guidance at MOS:SUICIDE. "X took his own life" is hardly a common misspelling and grammatical error, which is what AWB/typos is meant to target. Rather it's an editorial choice that the community has not taken a firm position on (the locus of past disputes – and I suspect future disputes – centers on the use of the word "committed" which could be taken to imply a criminal act). In my years here I've seen several editors decide to right great linguistical wrongs and fly through the encyclopedia replacing a "wrong" wording with a "right" one. Every time it generates unhelpful conflict. Every time it ends poorly. My suggestion would be to refrain from this kind of editing – manually or with AWB. If you (Smasongarrison or others) wish to change language used, take it up through normal processes on individual talk pages. If you think a larger swap is merited, propose that exact swap on a widely viewed page for folks to comment on and approve. In the meantime, I'd support reverting all AWB swaps of this nature since June 2022, though certainly I have no idea how we'd find them. Ajpolino (talk) 15:38, 21 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the tag. So the suicide euphemism tags were not based entirely on the med specific rule, but on the tone tag/euphemism. However, I don't think reverting all of the awb changes is necessary because well, as you noted we quickly suspended the rule because it was an overzealous application on my part to the awb typo team. Mason (talk) 15:57, 21 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Clarification: I was thinking of an earlier overzealous application, related to this rule (not the current disabling). Regardless, I think that a mass reversion isn't a good use of time. Mason (talk) 03:31, 22 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the careful and thoughtful reply. And again, sorry if I came across overly-aggrieved. I'm not angry at the editors trying to make bots that relieve people's workload. I just think that I write reasonably well and clearly, and I especially dislike being told "you can't use this perfectly clear and ordinary word or phrase", much less that I'm forbidden to restore the original wording unless I obtain permission from a consensus of editors on this page, which is where I found myself this morning, after the JWB bot was substituted for the AWB bot on the same principle... P Aculeius (talk) 17:33, 21 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It seems that this is based primarily upon a question of fact, namely: Is "took his own life" a euphemism? If it is, then we would like to avoid it; if it isn't, then we would like to stop the JWB/AWB replacement. Fair?
The first entry at https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/take+his+own+life says that it is a euphemism. I think that is some evidence that it is a euphemism. I found the entry at https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/take+one's+life to be more interesting. Consider two of their examples: Do you feel any remorse for taking their lives all those years ago? and It's the executioner's job to take people's lives. Do those feel like euphemisms? Would you be happy to see that language in an encyclopedia article? If not, why not? WhatamIdoing (talk) 03:27, 22 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I suppose I'll just chime in to say that regardless of whether it's a euphemism, I don't think it's appropriate for AWB to be automatically typo-replacing it. I'd only support using the AWB typos list for things that are unambiguously wrong, and have an unambiguous replacement (e.g. typos). Looking at the typos list, I suspect my position on this is the norm – though certainly this could be discussed. Even for obvious euphemisms, I'd be more comfortable seeing an explicit discussion take place on whether a global replacement is desirable, followed by a bot run if approved. So I completely agree that further clarification of our suicide-related guidance would be helpful. But at least for me this does not turn primarily on whether to "take one's life" is a euphemism. Ajpolino (talk) 05:08, 22 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
According to the Oxford English Dictionary, this usage is a basic definition of the word "take", specifically sense 58b, taking a life, in use since at least the fifteenth century. The specific phrase "took his own life", which is the one repeatedly replaced with "killed himself" by Ideasmete, appears in formal and scholarly contexts, as well as everyday English; a Google ngram for the phrase revealed considerable use in legal briefs and the opinions of various courts. The fact that "The Free Dictionary by FARLEX" labels it a euphemism rather than merely idiomatic doesn't really clarify anything: the phrase does nothing to conceal what occurred, or substitute an innocuous expression for a more forceful one; it is not metaphorical and nobody is misled by it; it is not a recent coinage, nor is there any particular objection to its use—something that sets it apart from both "committed suicide" and "died by suicide" (which is certainly a euphemism for the former, but nonetheless expressly allowed). Perhaps also worth considering, the phrase occurred in historical contexts, where "committed suicide" feels jarringly modern, and "died by suicide" even more so. It occurs in the sources cited and the scholarly literature on the subject. There really is no good reason to ban such a common, straightforward, and unambiguous phrase. P Aculeius (talk) 13:31, 22 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
In the context of suicide, I find the phrase hard to evaluate. In other contexts, such as It's the executioner's job to take people's lives, I find myself feeling like it might be a euphemism. Why would we talk about "taking people's lives" instead of saying that he kills people? Killing people is what an executioner does, in plain language. "Taking lives" sounds like a way to make it sound more palatable.
It can be sometimes be difficult to decide when something is a euphemism, as that status changes over time. Consider Toilet#Etymology: it was a euphemism, and no longer is. However, as far as I can tell, "died by suicide" and "died of suicide" aren't euphemisms. They sometimes represent a viewpoint that sees suicide as a life-threatening medical condition (rather than an action).
In looking for information about this, I found https://www.health.govt.nz/system/files/documents/publications/hp7766_-_suicide_reporting_guidelines_media_guidelines_for_reporting_on_suicide.pdf which is the media code in New Zealand. It apparently has criminal laws restricting publication of information about (individual) suicide deaths. Even family members aren't allowed to share information. Until a couple of years ago, it was illegal to even say that a death was being investigated as a suspected suicide. WhatamIdoing (talk) 01:39, 26 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I tried searching for the phrase and also turned up thefreedictionary.com but little else dictionary-wise. So instead I searched for "suicide" with onelook.com.
  • Dictionary.com "the intentional taking of one's own life" / "a person who intentionally takes their own life."
  • Merriam-Webster "the act or an instance of taking one's own life voluntarily and intentionally"
  • Collins "a person who intentionally takes his or her own life" (Collins give many definition options and this is just one)
I find it odd that these major dictionaries would use a euphemism in order to define the actual word "suicide". Perhaps then, they aren't. It seems more likely that the use these words as they accurately define what a suicide is. This certainly doesn't reach the level of euphemism that we could agree is certainly non-encyclopaedic, because if it is good enough for these three reference works... -- Colin°Talk 10:34, 23 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps it isn't. I found only the one dictionary that labeled it that way. It is some evidence; it may not be convincing evidence.
I find myself leaning towards the recommedation by @Ajpolino: even if you were irrevocably opposed to that phrase, mindless, bot-like replacement is probably not the best approach. WhatamIdoing (talk) 01:41, 26 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Request: add "took his own life" to list of alternative formulations for "committed suicide"

As established in the discussion above, "taking one's own life" seems to be the, or at least a dictionary definition of suicide, and so ought to be listed among the recommended alternatives for those who wish to avoid the phrase "commit(ted) suicide". I understand that the list is not intended to be comprehensive, but there is an unfortunate tendency among editors to treat it as such, for which reason I think that something as ubiquitous and literal as this dictionary definition ought to be specifically listed to avoid such confusion. Since I was the editor who started the above discussion, I hesitate to modify the list in accordance with my own interpretation. P Aculeius (talk) 14:37, 22 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Given that your report at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Disruptive editing: mass replacement of "committed suicide" is still being discussed (87 comments so far), now is probably not the time for you to propose any changes to MOS:SUICIDE at all. Or maybe even this year. WhatamIdoing (talk) 00:01, 24 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
source: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk%3AManual_of_Style%2FMedicine-related_articles&diff=1156659766&oldid=1156488948

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