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Sportspeople

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The result was delete. Randykitty (talk) 18:35, 4 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Isabella Escobar

Isabella Escobar (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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According to ITF records, appears to be a junior player that never made it as a professional. I can't find any evidence of meeting WP:NTENNIS now that Fed Cup participation has been removed from that guideline. I'm also not seeing enough coverage for WP:SPORTBASIC. I found a passing mention in El Norte, another in US State News and, finally, another in Siglo Veintiuno. None of that is even close to good enough. Spiderone(Talk to Spider) 18:39, 25 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Delete This person is not notable enough and I'm assuming she wrote the article about herself. The-J-Verse (talk) 17:48, 26 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, not notable for what amounts to a stub article. And Wikipedia is not a newspaper. Kierzek (talk) 00:46, 1 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. Salvio giuliano 20:47, 11 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Lihini Weerasuriya

Lihini Weerasuriya (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:GNG Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 18:12, 25 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Randykitty (talk) 18:11, 4 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment, I agree Weerasuriya is also Sri Lanka's best tennis player in the modern era. WTA Tour played main table Played main table in 1994 Oklahoma Tournament.Tournament draws played main table in several wta tournaments in the 90s.(talk) 18:08, 5 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • A tough one. Per Project guidelines notability is likely to exist for representing your nation in Fed Cup. Whether the gng actually exists is a tough call. She only won minor-minor league events as a pro.... not even minor league challenger level, but minor-minor league ITF 10,000 events. So she has done nothing notable in professional tennis. This probably squeaks by as Keep only because she was the highest ranked Sri Lankan player in the history of Sri Lanka (male or female). That had to have garnered press in Sri Lanka which I don't read or write. Do their newspapers/magazines get archived in any database? Fyunck(click) (talk) 08:46, 7 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    @Fyunck(click), per the guidelines GNG is only likely to exist if a SIGCOV IRS source has been identified. Otherwise sport-specific guideline criteria can't apply. JoelleJay (talk) 16:17, 7 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Per guidelines, not per policy. Local guidelines and individual consensus guidelines happen all the time at Wikipedia. That doesn't mean it can go sourceless. We always need those sources. Fyunck(click) (talk) 19:08, 7 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    This isn't a local guideline, as you know this was according to global consensus on a en.wp guideline, which always overrules project-level criteria. JoelleJay (talk) 19:55, 7 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Actually, I have seen MOS consensus over-ridden 100s of times in my many years here. All it takes is more people editing an article that disagrees with something like MOS. It usually requires a very popular article for that to happen. Something like Serena Williams or Global Warming lets say. But I'm not sure what you are arguing against. Fyunck(click) (talk) 07:30, 8 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. I attempted to search for her in Tamil (using the Tamil transliteration of "Weerasuriya" that other Weerasuriyas use) and found nothing. GNG is required and it is not met here. JoelleJay (talk) 17:01, 7 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    That would be the wrong language. Sinhala is the predominant language in the country Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 20:02, 7 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Ah thanks, didn't find anything for ලිහිණි or විජේසූරිය either. JoelleJay (talk) 21:03, 7 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak keep I agree with the reasoning of other users on here, but also feel this page would do much better to be improved rather than being deleted wholesale.Historyday01 (talk) 04:40, 8 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    @Historyday01, are you aware that all sports articles are required to a) meet GNG and b) have at least one SIGCOV source cited in the article? JoelleJay (talk) 05:36, 8 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    All articles should meet GNG, not just sports. But there can be things to consider other than GNG and if enough editors agree then MOS's guidelines get pushed aside as it has always been here. Underrepresentation of women in articles can be a strong incentive for editors to buck MOS. If a male gets an article for being the best male soccer player to not have an article on the best woman soccer player will get rightfully hammered if you try to delete it... no matter the sources. There has to be flexibility. Wikiproject:Women in Sports will flock to the rescue of the article. That's not the case here... this person is borderline and I don't really care which way it goes. But nothing is etched in stone as long as more wikipedians come to an article to vote a particular way. Fyunck(click) (talk) 07:41, 8 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    While I understand where you are coming from, I suppose, I find your attitude about how "Wikiproject:Women in Sports will flock to the rescue of the article" and that "underrepresentation of women in articles can be a strong incentive for editors to buck MOS" to be disturbing. They are views which undermine your whole comment here. As such, those views put your whole argument, in defense of the deletion of this page, into question, suggesting other possible motives for supporting deletion. Historyday01 (talk) 14:02, 8 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    The subject is not "borderline": she has exclusively sparse database sources that don't even contain the barest biographical information. This is a slam-dunk delete. JoelleJay (talk) 17:56, 8 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    I stand by what I said, that improving an article is BETTER than deletion. Historyday01 (talk) 13:58, 8 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    You know that arguments that are not based on guidelines will be disregarded, right? And what sources would we even use to improve the article? JoelleJay (talk) 17:52, 8 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete The subject fails WP:GNG due to lack of significant coverage. I would also support a redirect to Sri Lanka Billie Jean King Cup team. Alvaldi (talk) 19:24, 8 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - while I agree with the sentiment that improving an article is better than deleting it, I can't find any sources with which to improve this article. I also can't see any WP:ATD except maybe a redirect to Sri Lanka Billie Jean King Cup team as above. Playing in 1994 IGA Classic – Singles means that she does technically meet WP:NTENNIS, the GNG failure is so comprehensive that that must take priority I'm afraid. Spiderone(Talk to Spider) 19:58, 8 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note I asked the Sri Lankan Tennis Association if they can help find any press or magazine articles on her since there has never been anyone higher ranked in their country's history. We'll see if they have anything to share. Fyunck(click) (talk) 22:38, 8 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. Randykitty (talk) 17:38, 4 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Majid Akbari

AfDs for this article:
Majid Akbari (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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I can't find anything in Persian searches apart from the usual database sources. I have translated the only non-database source in the article here and it's only a trivial mention in a list of transferred players. There is no evidence that Akbari meets WP:GNG or WP:SPORTBASIC so I can't see any alternative but to delete for a second time. Spiderone(Talk to Spider) 16:57, 25 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Randykitty (talk) 17:37, 4 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Aysar Qasim Mohammed

Aysar Qasim Mohammed (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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For a footballer to be notable, they must meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTBASIC. The latter clearly states that [sports] biographies must include at least one reference to a source providing significant coverage of the subject, excluding database sources. I have searched in Swedish and Arabic and not found any sources that meet requirements. Draft:Aysar Qasim Mohammed already exists. Source analysis to follow. Spiderone(Talk to Spider) 16:35, 25 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Source assessment table:
Source Independent? Reliable? Significant coverage? Count source toward GNG?
https://www.sofascore.com/dalkurd-ff-enkopings-sk/FKskVi Yes Yes No Database sources are deprecated per WP:SPORTBASIC. ✘ No
https://www.dalkurd.se/index.php/a-laget/truppen No His employer No No Contains only his name and squad number ✘ No
https://no.soccerstats247.com/spillere/aysar-qasim-qasim-mohammed-863391/ Yes Yes No Database sources are deprecated per WP:SPORTBASIC. ✘ No
https://int.soccerway.com/players/aysar-qasim-qasim-mohammed/863391/ Yes Yes No Database sources are deprecated per WP:SPORTBASIC. ✘ No
https://tembah.net/en/player?p=863391 ? ? No Database sources are deprecated per WP:SPORTBASIC. ✘ No
https://www.hitta.se/aysar+qasim+mohammed/uppsala/person/msuhlcq No No No No prose coverage ✘ No
https://www.kooora.com/?n=1106499 Yes Yes No Only a passing mention - mentioned once ✘ No
https://www.ina.iq/146267--.html Yes Yes No Mentioned once in a squad list ✘ No
https://www.worldfootball.net/player_summary/aysar-qasim-mohammad/ Yes Yes No Database sources are deprecated per WP:SPORTBASIC. ✘ No
https://www.transfermarkt.com/aysar-qasim-mohammed/profil/spieler/1071706 Yes No WP:TRANSFERMARKT No Database sources are deprecated per WP:SPORTBASIC. ✘ No
https://aysarqasim.com/ No His own website No No ✘ No
https://www.instagram.com/aysar_qasim/ No His own social media No No ✘ No
This table may not be a final or consensus view; it may summarize developing consensus, or reflect assessments of a single editor. Created using {{source assess table}}.
Spiderone(Talk to Spider) 16:42, 25 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Spiderone(Talk to Spider) 17:10, 25 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete unless someone can add "at least one reference to a source providing significant coverage of the subject, excluding database sources." Cullen328 (talk) 23:20, 25 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. GiantSnowman 19:52, 1 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - Article fails WP:GNG. Jogurney (talk) 03:49, 3 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. The references don’t establish notability per WP:GNG, WP:NPERSON, or WP:NATHLETE, not to mention WP:NBIO. I did my own search for any sources that might have been missed and didn’t find any that would qualify as reliable, secondary, and independent. Based on these findings, deletion is appropriate. Shawn Teller (talk) 17:13, 4 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. Salvio giuliano 23:23, 3 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Mashrabjon Ruziboev

Mashrabjon Ruziboev (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:NMMA and WP:GNG HeinzMaster (talk) 23:15, 24 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, how is the importance of a fighter not proven? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Barseghyan1234321 (talk • contribs) 09:04, 25 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Please note that the above user has draftified the article and removed the AfD template. Spiderone(Talk to Spider) 09:23, 25 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I moved the article to a draft to improve it, add the necessary information, links to the poedikt if necessary. Removed the deletion template because it gave an error. Tell me what information about the fighter to add for the usefulness of the article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Barseghyan1234321 (talk • contribs) 10:27, 25 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete doesn't meet WP:NMMA or WP:GNG yet. Nswix (talk) 16:40, 27 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete A world ranking of 358th means he's a long way from meeting WP:NMMA. None of the references in the article show significant independent coverage, they're either databases or reporting fight results. My own search for sources, in English of course, didn't find anything to show he meets WP:GNG. Papaursa (talk) 01:33, 1 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete fails WP:NMMA and WP:GNG.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 23:39, 1 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. Salvio giuliano 17:19, 3 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Alonso Collazo

Alonso Collazo (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Does not appear to meet WP:GNG, fails WP:SPORTBASIC. Hey man im josh (talk) 17:10, 24 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Eddie891 Talk Work 16:42, 3 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Vasily Antonenko

Vasily Antonenko (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Played 35 minutes of professional football then disappeared. I can't find anything that would satisfy WP:SPORTBASIC and WP:GNG. The former clearly states that [sports] biographies must include at least one reference to a source providing significant coverage of the subject, excluding database sources.

Best I can find is Kraj and Osipinfo, both just trivial mentions. I have also taken into consideration Tribuna, a loan announcement from the Belarusian Wikipedia, and Orsha, which is a trivial mention again. He is also mentioned in a Livejournal fan blog that I found but this isn't WP:RS of course. Spiderone(Talk to Spider) 16:36, 24 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect to Anadolu Efes S.K.. Liz Read! Talk! 03:34, 11 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Alper Yılmaz

Alper Yılmaz (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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NN player, nearly BLP PROD but has 2 ELs. UtherSRG (talk) 12:01, 24 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Eddie891 Talk Work 13:09, 3 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Redirect, I guess, since there's no SIGCOV identified but a reasonable redirect target exists. JoelleJay (talk) 21:17, 6 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 17:03, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Liz Read! Talk! 06:00, 4 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

David William Lane Greer

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David William Lane Greer (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:GNG Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 04:07, 24 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting, not eligible for Soft Delete
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 05:20, 3 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. There is clear consensus that notability has not been demonstrated thus far; the arguments to keep don't have a basis in policy, as criteria based on participation have been explicitly rejected. There are indications that coverage in German media may exist: if someone finds some, and wishes to work on a draftspace copy, I would be willing to provide one assuming they're acting in good faith. Vanamonde (Talk) 05:24, 4 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Fritz Neumayr

Fritz Neumayr (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Does not appear to meet WP:NSPORT or WP:GNG and lacks WP:SIGCOV. Of the six references included, three of them are sports database entries, two are passing mentions (one of which is just them in a team picture), and one is inaccessible (a book). Hey man im josh (talk) 19:33, 23 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

AGAINST. There's nothing related to soccer in WP:NSPORT. Intentionally or unintentionally, I don't know.
3 primary sources, which OP has disqualified due to being from "sports databses", which is a new one plus some others which means the article meets:WP:GNG and WP:SIGCOV. If OP could cite a "no sports databases" rule, that would be helpful. I do not think it exists considering sites like (https://www.basketball-reference.com/) are listed as part of Wikipedia templates for players like Stephen Curry.
The magazine that OP has an issue with cites a book as a source, hence why it was used.
Just because OP does not have the book does not disqualify it. There's millions of books on this site that OP does not have or have access to. Books aren't free, can't be shared without breaking copyright law, nor are there enough copies for 8 billion people. There's also limited availability of books based on where you are located - Not everyone ships to other countries or ever sold books in more than one country.
Additionally, Fritz Neumayr would pass notability for 1) Playing in a top division in Germany (Gauliga), 2) Playing in the top cup of Germany (1931 German football championship), 3) Being a captain of the team. OP has stated that he believes Fritz was somehow made captain of TSV 1860 Munich for only 6 listed appearances in 11 years. That seems highly unlikely, but also ignores the obvious - not every newspaper ever created has been made available online. It seems highly unlikely that no report.— Preceding unsigned comment added by KatoKungLee (talk • contribs) 19:56, 23 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
WP:NSPORT states Sports which are not listed on this page should defer to the Basic criteria for guidance. The target, WP:SPORTCRIT, states Trivial coverage of a subject by secondary sources may be used to support content in an article, but it is not sufficient to establish notability. This includes listings in database sources with low, wide-sweeping generic standards of inclusion, such as Sports Reference's college football and basketball databases.
As discussed on my talk page, participation based criteria (such as WP:NFOOTY, the previous go-to notability guideline for soccer players) is part of what was removed under proposal 3 at WP:NSPORTS2022.
I don't recall stating that I thought he became captain (which we need a source on) with only 6 games played. We should not infer that someone is notable without supporting evidence and the burden is not on me to prove that the sports database references you added are incorrect. I understand not all books are accessible, but I simply don't agree that notability has been demonstrated in this case. Can you point me towards a notability standard that this article currently meets? Hey man im josh (talk) 21:00, 23 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
WP:NSPORTS2022 makes no reference to soccer which is the main problem of this whole debate. The only thing it says is that playing 1 game does not make you notable, which is useless as under that, no player would be notable.
What we do know is that he was the captain on team that was in the top division (Gauliga) and played in the top cup tournament (1931 German football championship). We know he did this over a span of 11 years, so he wasn't a substitute for a day. We also know TSV 1860 Munich played more than 6 games a season (actually 22 games a season) by looking at the 1933–34 Gauliga Bayern, so we know the sources did not have information for all of their games. If you don't believe that he only played 6 games in 11 seasons, which would be the common sense move, I don't really understand why you would mark this for deletion since he played regularly for a top flight team in a top flight division over a span of 11 years.
I've already cited a magazine and a book he was mentioned in, since the book cited the magazine. I've cited three different databases as well. If I find a non-website source with more information, you might say you can't see the book so it doesn't count, which is what you did above with the other book mentioned. Why am I to believe that you would accept a 2nd book when a magazine and book were already rejected? KatoKungLee (talk) 21:32, 23 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
If I find a non-website source with more information, you might say you can't see the book so it doesn't count, which is what you did above with the other book mentioned. Why am I to believe that you would accept a 2nd book when a magazine and book were already rejected? – Would you be willing to tell us what's in the books relating to Neumayr? If you have the books and you find that they in-depth cover Neumayr, then the article could potentially be kept. BeanieFan11 (talk) 21:49, 23 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
You're speculating a lot so I want to point you to WP:SYNTH: Do not combine material from multiple sources to reach or imply a conclusion not explicitly stated by any source. All the sources that we've found state that he's only played in 6 games but you're set on the idea that he's played in far more. Facts must be verifiable, even if the sources used to verify the fact are not accessible to all. WP:NSPORTS2022 is the reason that WP:NFOOTY and WP:NGRIDIRON no longer exist as notability guidelines and it established that participation in a league is not enough to pass notability guidelines. This means you're required to demonstrate that WP:GNG is met.
Why am I to believe that you would accept a 2nd book when a magazine and book were already rejected? We're allowed to disagree but you should remember to assume good faith. I don't think I've done anything that should make you believe I'm acting in bad faith. You mention that the magazine referenced the book, but am I to understand you added it as a reference without having seen the book content yourself? It's fine that a source is not accessible to all those involved but we need to understand what's in the source.
As I stated, the sources that you provided only included a single passing mention each. I'm absolutely open to sources being provided and I'd love to be wrong about an article I send to AfD. Hey man im josh (talk) 00:13, 24 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know if there's a use common sense wikipedia rule, but maybe there should be. It's just not feasible that a player would stay with the same team for 11 years and only play in 6 of 220 games and be made captain, especially in 1930's Germany where they weren't getting paid big bucks. We know he played more (because we'd know if he didn't due to having the most bizarre career in sports history otherwise). We don't know the exact number, but I never claimed the exact number.KatoKungLee (talk) 03:12, 24 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Its a shame there's no large German newspaper archives – like there is at Newspapers.com for American papers – or is there? BeanieFan11 (talk) 20:14, 23 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    • You are welcome to share any information you may have and are welcome to assist in researching the article. KatoKungLee (talk) 20:29, 23 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
      Deutsches Zeitungsportal might be what you're looking for. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested ∆transmissions∆ °co-ords° 21:56, 23 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
      Although I'm not finding anything relevant under "Fritz Neumayr", someone who can actually speak German may have better luck. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested ∆transmissions∆ °co-ords° 21:59, 23 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
      I could have maybe used something from it, but the font chosen for the newspapers I saw was non-traditional and my computer couldn't covert it.KatoKungLee (talk) 01:52, 24 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep - Per KatoKungLee. Thanks, Das osmnezz (talk) 22:48, 23 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    I'd like to note a concern that this user was notified of this discussion by KatoKungLee. They were not a major contributor to the article (having only removed the PROD tag) so there was no reason to notify them, but they were notified in a neutral tone. KatoKungLee's rational is also based on participation, a criteria which was removed by WP:NSPORTS2022. Hey man im josh (talk) 23:45, 23 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Spiderone(Talk to Spider) 09:26, 24 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - the arguments for keep all relate to participation, which we specifically decided was no longer an acceptable justification for keeping in WP:NSPORTS2022 and, in fact, this type of article is exactly the type that the community was looking to restrict from being created as it's a stats entry rather than an 'article'. Per WP:SPORTBASIC, we require Sports biographies must include at least one reference to a source providing significant coverage of the subject, excluding database sources. There is no evidence of this. The book that we are all debating about is published by his employer so wouldn't count towards GNG or SPORTBASIC anyway as it's not independent of the subject. If people believe that significant coverage does exist but more time is needed, I would suggest draftify. Otherwise, delete. Spiderone(Talk to Spider) 09:37, 24 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. GiantSnowman 19:43, 24 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment As it stands this is just a stub article, but there are some issues here, post WW2 which could mean a lot of sources could have been destroyed by war. Yes, there is an issue with game and goal count. It makes sense this is an under count. WP:OFFLINESOURCES is an option here, but because of the period I wouldn't be surprised that it would be a really tough task to get the sources and the information to build an article. This really needed to be started in draft space. I also have one question, is this person the same as the one noted here and here. It's not hard to rebuild from this stage if delete. Govvy (talk) 17:29, 25 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - Fails WP:GNG Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 01:09, 26 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per nom. Therapyisgood (talk) 08:59, 27 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Draftify - The 1949 magazine entry (published by 1860) suggests that Neumayr was one of the most important 1860 players from the club's first 50 years who was still capable of playing in the commemorative match. Some of the other 1860 players who participated are clearly notable (de:Anton Huber (Fußballspieler, I), Ludwig Lachner, Max Schäfer, de:Gustav Thalmeier, de:Max Kob, de:Alois Pledl), so it stands to reason that Neumayr was included in the squad because he was also a notable 1860 footballer. Clearly, we haven't located significant coverage in online sources yet, but I think scrubbing some of the de:wiki articles might help us get there. Jogurney (talk) 16:44, 28 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'll note that a book (Hardy Grüne, Claus Melchior: Legenden in Weiß und Blau. 100 Jahre Fußballgeschichte eines Münchner Traditionsvereines. Die Werkstatt, Göttingen 1999, ISBN 3-89533-256-9) is cited in several biographies for 1860 players who were contemporaries of Neumayr. I can't be sure that he Neumayr is covered in that book, but knowing that other footballers who played in that 1949 commemorative match are, suggests someone with access to the book might find something useful about Neumayr in it. Jogurney (talk)
  • This book appears to be available here, but the DNB archive is currently down for maintenance. Jogurney (talk) 17:38, 28 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Jogurney: An editor with access to the book stated that it contained the following information on him (in English): "Fritz Neumayr: In 1929 Fritz Neumayr changed from FC Stern Munich to TSV 1860 Munich, but his big time didn't begin before 1931/32. Since this season the later team captain formed TSV 1860's defense for years together with Sepp Wendl. He played his last season in 1939/40." BeanieFan11 (talk) 15:37, 2 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you BeanieFan11. I was hoping the book might provide in-depth coverage, but based on that translation, I think it comes up short. I would still support draftification in case there are other German-language books that go into more detail. If Neumayr truly captained 1860 for several seasons in the 1930s, it is possible that something else is out there. Jogurney (talk) 15:45, 2 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was keep. Salvio giuliano 20:16, 2 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Linus Söderström

Linus Söderström (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:SPORTSPERSON and WP:NHOCKEY. There are a few good sources, but every professional athlete receives some media coverage. Nothing suggests the subject of the article is particularly noteworthy. JMB1980 (talk) 18:25, 23 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Ice hockey, and Sweden. Spiderone(Talk to Spider) 18:37, 23 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep - meets GNG. Besides the sources in the article there are plenty of Swedish sources, such as [3], [4], [5]. It certainly not true that every professional athlete receives some media coverage, although it may be that every SHL athlete receives some media coverage, given that the SHL is one of the top hockey leagues in the world. In any case WP:NSPORT2022 rejected the notion that merely playing in the SHL is enough to meet Wikipedia notability, but affirmed that sportspeople whose coverage are consistent with GNG do meet Wikipedia notability. There is no requirement that a subject that meets GNG also meet the nominator's notion of what is "particularly noteworthy." Rlendog (talk) 13:53, 24 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    If the standard is that every player who has at least two instances of coverage in secondary sources (the minimum requirement to meet WP:GNG) is notable, then there probably isn't an athlete at the professional level who shouldn't have a Wikipedia page. The subject of this article has received about the least coverage one could reasonably expect a professional athlete to receive. Most of the coverage consists of articles that are quite short and mostly pretty routine (i.e. announcing that he signed a contract). As far as I can tell, he isn't notable for anything except just playing in the SHL; that isn't enough to meet notability guidelines, per WP:NSPORT2022. My determination that he is not notable is based on the fact he doesn't meet WP:SPORTSPERSON and/or WP:NHOCKEY. JMB1980 (talk) 21:33, 24 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Why would including everyone who meets WP:GNG be a problem? /Julle (talk) 14:21, 25 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Wikipedia policy states not every subject that meets WP:GNG is automatically notable. General notability guidelines are (as the name suggests) guidelines, not a guarantee of notability. Deeming anybody with any media coverage to be notable would result in an excess of low-quality articles about subjects most people would not consider worthy of inclusion in an encyclopedia. Nearly every local politician, criminal, small business, etc. would have a Wikipedia page. It's actually pretty easy to meet the general notability guidelines; I meet WP:GNG but I think most people would agree I'm not notable enough to have an encyclopedia article. JMB1980 (talk) 20:19, 25 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    WP:SPORTSPERSON and WP:NHOCKEY are SNG's that give indications that a subject is likely to meet GNG. But the primary notability guideline is NSPORT, which refers right back to GNG. And not every professional sportsperson meets GNG. Far from it. Although most players who manage to play in the SHL - one of the top professional hockey leagues in the world - probably do. Because they have reached the highest level of the sport in a country in which ice hockey is important and gets a lot of attention. Rlendog (talk) 00:57, 27 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. The argument that he might meet WP:GNG but the article should be deleted because of WP:NHOCKEY is explicitly not what WP:NHOCKEY is for. To quote from the FAQ at the top of the page: "if the subject meets the general notability guideline, then they meet Wikipedia's standards for having an article in Wikipedia, even if they do not meet the criteria for the appropriate sports-specific notability guideline. The sports-specific notability guidelines are not intended to set a higher bar for inclusion in Wikipedia". /Julle (talk) 10:27, 25 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. Meets GNG. Aside from that, he led the league in GAA and was the starting goalie for a championship team in one of the world's top leagues. And on that note, stating that he fails NHOCKEY is a ludicrous proposition for deletion as NHOCKEY has been almost completely dismantled and only discusses players who would have played at a lower level than him.18abruce (talk) 14:01, 26 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. Liz Read! Talk! 07:33, 3 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Vassilis Chatzigiannakou

Vassilis Chatzigiannakou (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Can't find the multiple examples of significant, detailed coverage for WP:GNG and WP:SPORTBASIC. Best I can find is Phile News, which contains one sentence about him being injured, Sport FM, a contract renewal announcement with no independent content (copied from club website), and Kerkida (translated), a basic announcement of his release from AEK Larnaca. Spiderone(Talk to Spider) 18:36, 23 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Salvio giuliano 20:18, 2 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Salvio giuliano 20:02, 2 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Putra Aprilianto

Putra Aprilianto (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Non-notable footballer who played 15 minutes of football then disappeared. Searches including an Indonesian source search did not yield significant coverage. I have dismissed Tribun News Wiki as a source because it openly admits to using Transfermarkt and Mitra Kukar's own website as sources, so is not reliable. Aside from that, we have only squad list mentions such as Bola and Tribun News. Even if Tribun News Wiki were somehow acceptable, this still wouldn't meet the threshold for multiple sources, as required by WP:GNG and WP:SPORTBASIC. Spiderone(Talk to Spider) 17:48, 23 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Star Mississippi 02:13, 18 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Marcos Caballero

Marcos Caballero (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Article about former amateur/semi-pro footballer who received some notice while playing in his mid-to-late thirties after 20+ years at the same club which was seeking a first-ever promotion to Paraguay's top division. D10 covers him in an article about the club's rise, and more recently Crónica published an interview that covers him (I can't find anything else in reliable sources - not even a confirmation of when or where he was born). Although these sources exist, I'm not convinced that they are enough to satisfy the WP:GNG - while he is noted as the club's all-time scorer, most of the coverage relates to the club's ambitions and rise, and Caballero's desire to play in the top division (which never happens). If this article is kept, we should move it to Marco Caballero since he goes by that in the sources available. Additionally, the article was created by a sock, so there is additional trimming to do if it were to be kept. Jogurney (talk) 19:40, 22 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

KEEP - He is player for a top division club. Players who don't play for top level clubs can be notable and people who never played professionally can be marked as notable (see Clifton McNeely). Being an all-time leading scorer of a club is noteworthy. Discussions for deletion should be about the article, not used as a way to publicly harass a user see: Wikipedia:Talk dos and don'ts and Wikipedia:Harassment.KatoKungLee (talk) 20:15, 23 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Clifton McNeely was the first overall pick in the first draft of what became the NBA and there's a boatload of WP:SIGCOV that causes him to meet WP:GNG. That's a bad comparison. Hey man im josh (talk) 21:03, 23 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I'm trying to WP:AGF, but I'm really struggling with your claim of harassment. I can't think of anything I've done except nominate for deletion an article with dubious claims to notability. I've done WP:BEFORE, and I've explained what I found and why I think it's not enough (see above). Also, please note that Caballero is not and never has been a "player for a top division club" - yet per WP:NSPORTS2022 it wouldn't establish notability if he had. Jogurney (talk) 21:06, 23 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I don't see what accusations about the original poster's account status have to do with the notability of this article. I've read over WP:NSPORTS2022 several times and there's very little that useful from it since it only establishes that 1 game does not make you notable automatically. However, with him being a pro player and soon a top division player (as his club is now promoted), I think that's notable.KatoKungLee (talk) 22:03, 23 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, you thought I was bad-mouthing former User:Rojodiablcerrocerrocerro? Not at all, that was just a note to myself and others that if the article is kept, we need to trim some of their inappropriate contributions. It isn't my nomination rationale, and I apologize if it came across that way. Jogurney (talk) 23:09, 23 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep - Per KatoKungLee. There are sources like [6], [7], [8] and [9] among more sources. Clearly significant figure in Paraguayan lower league football, regarded as one off clubs most imprint players ever, and played in fully pro Paraguayan second tier. Thanks, Das osmnezz (talk) 23:06, 23 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I mentioned the Crónica and D10 articles in my nomination rationale (not enough to be significant coverage). The ABC Color article tells us his age and height (in 2003), plus one sentence: "Por su parte, Caballero es el artillero del equipo y el torneo, con 12 anotaciones, marca que podrá ser batida en la liguilla hexagonal que se jugará desde el fin de semana próximo, para definir al segundo equipo que ascendará." (Basically he is his club's striker and scored twelve goals so far during the season - in the Paraguayan fourth division.) I can't open the Facebook link, but please tell us how it is a better source of significant coverage than the ABC Color article? Jogurney (talk) 23:26, 23 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Further analysis of the sources would be helpful.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Extraordinary Writ (talk) 06:32, 3 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete: Not seeing evidence of notability. Hey man im josh (talk) 14:11, 6 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete, agreed with Jogurney, none of the sources come close to GNG. JoelleJay (talk) 21:15, 6 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak delete - this one is marginal but really Crónica is a very good source but the others lack the independent content to really make any real notability claim from. As WP:SPORTBASIC requires more than one good source, it's hard to advocate clearly for a keep. Spiderone(Talk to Spider) 19:34, 9 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Redirect to Sportivo Ameliano. While I consider Chronica page to be GNG-appropriate (there is sufficient non-quote content to be considered independent), that alone is not enough SIGCOV for a GNG pass. The rest of the sources fail GNG. As Mr. Caballero is a top player for this club, his name is a reasonable search term and he is listed multiple times on the club’s page, including in the lead. Also this is close to GNG so using an ATD would preserve article history in the event more coverage becomes available for a standalone page. Frank Anchor 22:52, 9 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: More input is needed before determining consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Shawn Teller (talk) 03:35, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete: Sportsfan 1234 and GiantSnowman. BLPs need clearly Ind RS with SIGCOV addressing the subject directly and indepth for both content and notabilty to avoid abuse. These do not meet that standard. Not seeing anything with SIGCOV addressing the subject directly and indepth.  // Timothy :: talk  13:34, 17 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - just simply not enough in-depth coverage to pass WP:GNG.Onel5969 TT me 00:37, 18 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. Eddie891 Talk Work 19:16, 28 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Adrien Tuison

Adrien Tuison (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Article about footballer who made a few Ligue 2 appearances but which comprehensively fails WP:SPORTBASIC and WP:GNG. Le Journal de Saône-et-Loire has a number of articles that provide routine coverage (e.g., injury report, match preview and post-match interview) but I can't locate anything that would be WP:SIRS. Jogurney (talk) 18:58, 21 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

KEEP - I don't know anything about Adrien Tuison, but I was able to pull 8 different sources on him in less than a few minutes. I updated the article as such. I can't understand why the first move would be to mark the article for deletion over trying to add a few sources. He is a pro player that got significant coverage.KatoKungLee (talk) 20:53, 23 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
With all respect, the 8 sources you added to the article are entries in statistics databases which are not significant coverage. Please take a look at WP:SIGCOV for a better explanation, but in short the source should discuss the subject in depth (as a statistics database almost never does) and the source should be reliable and independent of the subject (such as a newspaper or magazine that exercises editorial control over its content). To answer your question, my first move was to check for SIGCOV, and finding none (please read my statement above), I brought it here for consensus on what to do next. Jogurney (talk) 21:15, 23 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
There's hundreds of thousands of soccer players and 8 different sources found him worthy enough to make a page for. That's notable coverage if I've ever seen it. There's players who were captains on championship first division teams that didn't get that much. What is the realististic expectation for a non-superstar player? Maybe a random profile article or two once in a while, but that's about it. And that's not counting that we are limited on English speaking sources and working around the censorship of Google/Bing.KatoKungLee (talk) 01:42, 24 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
What kind of coverage can really be expected for 2nd division players? Getting sports sites to even talk about lesser top division teams is a feat.KatoKungLee (talk) 20:37, 25 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete: I don't believe this meets WP:GNG. Sports database entries don't help in terms of establishing notability (point 1 of WP:SPORTCRIT). Hey man im josh (talk) 21:08, 23 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - as per SPORTBASIC, Sports biographies must include at least one reference to a source providing significant coverage of the subject, excluding database sources. (emphasis mine). Since there does not appear to be a way for Tuison to meet this standard, he does not pass SPORTBASIC. Spiderone(Talk to Spider) 09:19, 24 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. Eddie891 Talk Work 15:26, 28 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Elham Galica

Elham Galica (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Does not appear to meet WP:SPORTCRIT or WP:GNG. Hey man im josh (talk) 13:32, 21 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. The sources might be independent but some of the claims in this article ("the first ascent of Mount Everest in 2018"?) are verifiably false, as pointed out by participants in this discussion. I don't think his notability among mountain climbers is demonstrated. Liz Read! Talk! 23:58, 13 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Rohtash Khileri

Rohtash Khileri (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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He climbed the mountains, yes, but so did many hundreds of other people. Besides photos of him climbing the mountain, there is no coverage in RS about him. Long way from GNG. Oaktree b (talk) 20:37, 20 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

He made the first ascent of Mount Everest in 2018. He was the first person to spend 24 hours on Mount Kilimanjaro. MIT&boys (talk) 07:45, 21 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. Just among the sources in the article, there are multiple foreign language sources covering him, and no credible challenge has been made to their independence or reliability. There's no requirement that a person be the only person notable for something. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 16:48, 27 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Extraordinary Writ (talk) 22:40, 27 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep. Assuming the references present in the article were added in good faith and corroborate its contents. I do not know the language and the sources enough to be certain, so I ask anyone that speaks the language to ping me if they have reason to think different. Rkieferbaum (talk) 19:00, 6 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Randykitty (talk) 22:50, 6 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • delete apart from a somewhat dubious record there isnt really anything that passes WP:NBIO. The record seems somewhat contrived Longest Duration to Stay on the Top of Mt. Kilimanjaro: Rohtash Khileri (Hisar, Haryana). and is sandwiched between Youngest Diploma Holder in Drawing & Painting: Shiven Sidharth (Delhi) and Largest Bamboo Species Collection: Prashant Atmaram Date (Nashik, Maharashtra). [10] --hroest 02:36, 7 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep The Amar Ujala and Punjab Kesari articles are detailed ones Christopheronthemove (talk) 17:30, 11 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete This article is full of nonsense and there is nothing notable about climbing Everest, Elbrus or Kilimanjaro in the 21st century. Using the term "first ascent" to describe a climb that has been completed thousands of times over the last 70 years is simply false. Elbrus has been climbed for 150 years including on horseback and Kilimanjaro has been climbed by countless people ranging from seven years old to 89 years old. This person is not a notable mountaineer. Cullen328 (talk) 16:33, 13 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 22:43, 27 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Steve McDonald (footballer)

Steve McDonald (footballer) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Article fails WP:GNG. Simione001 (talk) 21:13, 20 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 22:37, 27 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Kim Min-gyu (footballer, born 1999)

Kim Min-gyu (footballer, born 1999) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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No evidence of WP:SPORTBASIC or WP:GNG found for this footballer. The article's current references are a database page and a trivial mention in The Star, which is hardly a claim to notability. The Korean Wikipedia article is unsourced. I have used the Korean name for searching in conjunction with his previous clubs but found nothing of note. All I can find is plenty of coverage about Kim Min-kyu (actor) and Kim Min-kyu (entertainer) but nothing about this footballer. Please also don't confuse him with any of the other several footballers at Kim Min-kyu. Malaysian searches were a little better but still don't show notability. Majoriti is a trivial mention and so is Makanbola. Spiderone(Talk to Spider) 19:40, 20 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Joyous! | Talk 20:52, 27 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Gunnlaugur Ernir Ragnarsson

Gunnlaugur Ernir Ragnarsson (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Does not appear to meet WP:SPORTCRIT or WP:GNG. BangJan1999 15:29, 20 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Delete, created by a user only making promotional edits under COI. Absolutely fails notability guidelines. ~ Eejit43 (talk) 17:17, 20 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per others. —Alalch E. 21:05, 20 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete, Does not show notability. Alex-h (talk) 11:08, 21 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete possibly even eligible for WP:CSD#A7, as there's no actual claim of any notability. Certainly doesn't pass WP:GNG, and the personal life section may also be in violation of WP:BLPCRIME too. Joseph2302 (talk) 11:12, 21 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. The article subject doesn’t satisfy WP:GNG, also failing to meet WP:SPORTCRIT. I also don’t see any WP:SIGCOV on a comprehensive search. Additionally, most if not all sources are WP:PRIMARY and have WP:RS issues. If there were evidence of notability and the subject passed WP:GNG with WP:SIGCOV by reliable secondary sources, then I would be in support of keeping. Based on my read of the article, I’m afraid there are WP:BLPCRIME issues as well. Shawn Teller (talk) 23:48, 26 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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The result was Draftify. I'm willing to provide it for XeverPL, but I will also protect the mainspace to ensure AfC is used. Star Mississippi 02:31, 28 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Dylan Slevin

AfDs for this article:
Dylan Slevin (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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NN sportsperson, was previous soft deleted va AFD. Restored via RFU and draftified. No edits while in draft then moved to main article space. UtherSRG (talk) 13:20, 20 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople and Ireland. UtherSRG (talk) 13:20, 20 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. As per the original AfD nom, I think this is WP:TOOSOON. In terms of sport-specific criteria, we don't seem to have guidelines specifically for darts players, and so WP:SPORTBASIC would seem to apply. Which expects that "Sports biographies must include at least one reference to a source providing significant coverage of the subject, excluding database sources". And I'm not seeing that any such significant coverage exists. In terms of this WP:SIGCOV, looking in national (mainstream) news sources, a search in the Irish Times, the Irish Independent and on the RTÉ website returns nothing at all. In darts sources, we find only passing mentions and relatively ROTM coverage. And, in local (regional) news sources, we find two examples of (very recent) "local boy done good" type stuff. While this is great, and I have added these to the article to support some of the text, I don't think these examples are significant enough to contribute much to (or establish) notability. (Otherwise, unless I'm missing something, the subject is similar to any other professional darts player - And I'm not aware of any guideline or consensus that every pro darts player (who has or had a tour card) is automatically notable...) Guliolopez (talk) 15:11, 20 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete: WP:NSPORT. ww2censor (talk) 10:38, 21 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose: Identical situation as in the case of Pascal Rupprecht, with the difference that in this case he has already achieved some success on the international arena in youth tournaments. I am asking for a draft this if getting a pro tour card and qualifying for the UK Open tournament is not enough. XeverPL (talk) 9:19, 25 February 2023 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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The result was delete. Randykitty (talk) 16:56, 5 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Tyquan Terrell

Tyquan Terrell (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:GNG and lacks WP:SIGCOV. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 18:08, 19 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Football, and Caribbean. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 18:08, 19 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Spiderone(Talk to Spider) 19:58, 19 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep - I found [11], [12], and [13] among many more sources. Clearly significant figure in local Sant Kitts and Nevis football. Young already internationally capped player with ongoing professional career in Europe. Article needs impoprvement, not deletion. Thanks, Das osmnezz (talk) 20:50, 19 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Not even close to meeting GNG. First and third sources mentions him once and twice respectively, routine coverage. The link to the second source doesn't even mention the subject. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 21:10, 19 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    You mean the second source that's titled 'Tyquan Terrell Scores Twice For Spanish 6th Division Football Club'??? GiantSnowman 21:32, 19 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Sorry the first one from Goal. Not sure if its redirecting because I do not see the subject mentioned at all. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 21:37, 19 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    The Goal source is titled 'Watching Liverpool's Mane made Tyquan Terrell 'hungry for goals' and mentions him throughout. GiantSnowman 21:50, 19 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - no evidence of notability. Goal source is OK but not enough on its own. If sources are found please ping me. GiantSnowman 21:32, 19 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. 1 has barely 2 sentences of independent coverage: The 22-year-old attacking sensation has risen through the ranks for Saint Kitts and Nevis, representing the Caribbean country at U20 and U23 level before making his senior international debut against Grenada in the Concacaf Nations League.
    ... the talented player, who has been scouted by several Major League Soccer outfits like Los Angeles FC, Minnesota FC United and FC Dallas,    , Red XN. 2 is an obvious press release from SKNFA, Red XN. 3 has just a single sentence on Terrell, Red XN. JoelleJay (talk) 23:27, 19 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep passes GNG with sources above. Disagree with analysis of references above.--Ortizesp (talk) 09:31, 20 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Please paste the sentences from those sources that you believe are independent secondary coverage of Terrell. JoelleJay (talk) 18:36, 20 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete Fails GNG due a lack of significant coverage. goal.com is Terrell talking about his fave African player (who cares), source 2 isn't independent of Terrell and source 3 is a brief mention. Dougal18 (talk) 15:15, 20 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - Though I know the likely outcome, I will say this: the goal source mostly talks about his favorite player Sadio Mane, and has been scouted by teams like, Los Angeles FC, Minnesota FC United and FC Dallas. Tell me if this source is something or not, even though he's in the U-20 national team in 2017.[14] Ivan Milenin (talk) 18:43, 21 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    By the way, I found another source, where he scored a goal from a reliable source, the fact that his team was defeated and resulted in a relegation. Here it is: [15] Ivan Milenin (talk) 18:53, 21 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: This one is a difficult call. On one hand, the subject’s notability is tenuous, but on the other, it seems that there is some coverage. Shawn Teller (talk) 04:46, 26 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Randykitty (talk) 18:27, 26 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete - There is no significant coverage available online; only brief mentions can be found. Fails WP:GNG. Jogurney (talk) 15:55, 28 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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The result was no consensus. Some coverage, some notability, some people saying this is enough for GNG, others saying it is not. AfD has been open for more than a month and I just don't see where a genuine consensus is going to come from here, at least this time around Fenix down (talk) 14:47, 23 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Ryan Robbins (footballer)

Ryan Robbins (footballer) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:GNG and lacks WP:SIGCOV. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 18:03, 19 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Football, and Caribbean. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 18:03, 19 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: This discussion has been included in the list of England-related deletion discussions. Spiderone(Talk to Spider) 19:36, 19 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Spiderone(Talk to Spider) 19:58, 19 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep - I found [16], [17], [18], [19], [20], [21], [22], [23], [24], [25], [26], [27], and [28], among many more British sources. Clearly significant figure in English non league football who has played and scored for his national team. Article needs improvement, not deletion. Thanks, Das osmnezz (talk) 21:12, 19 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep per sources above which show notability. GiantSnowman 21:31, 19 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep per sources above.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 22:08, 19 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. The sources above do not demonstrate notability. 1 is a quote-heavy routine match recap with barely 2 sentences on the subject, Red XN. 2 is a WordPress blog, Red XN. 3 is a non-independent (NPL) routine transaction announcement, Red XN. 4 is routine news with zero independent sentences on Robbins, Red XN. 5 is quote-heavy routine transactional news, Red XN. 6 is a routine match summary on what appears to be a UGS, Red XN. 7 is quote-heavy routine transaction buzz, Red XN. 8 is quote-heavy routine transaction buzz, Red XN. 9 is has essentially zero independent coverage of Robbins, Red XN. 10 is routine transaction coverage, Red XN. 11 is more routine transaction news, Red XN. 12, ditto, Red XN. 13, ditto, Red XN. Stop ref-bombing garbage sources. JoelleJay (talk) 22:21, 19 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep passes GNG with significant sources, disagree with the analysis of references above from biased user.--Ortizesp (talk) 09:30, 20 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Weak keep there is enough from Das osmnezz to show a clear pass of WP:GNG. Particularly the sources which JoelleJay incorrectly dismisses as "routine" transaction news actually contain several paragraphs of accomplishments (7, 8, 10, 11, 12, 13) Green tickY. Further, 7 is and 8 are incorrectly dismissed as being "quote-heavy" despite only having quotes in parts of (#7) 3 of 7 paragraphs and (#8) 6 of 14 paragraphs. Frank Anchor 19:05, 22 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Calling single sentences "paragraphs" is blatant misrepresentation of the amount of coverage. I miscategorized #8 as transactional, but it is still most certainly quote-heavy and not significant. Routine transaction coverage is the formulaic "player has signed a contract with team, these are the teams he played with before, these are some accomplishments, here are some quotes from player/coach about how excited they are, info on the club's schedule/history" that is produced for every transactional change. It does not contribute to GNG.

    • 7, from Eastern Daily Press, has 3 sentences of primary transaction buzz containing barely any info on Robbins:

      Gary Setchell is backing electric frontman Ryan Robbins to become a fans' favourite at King's Lynn Town.
      ...convincing the 25-year-old to leave Coalville Town...
      Rumours have been rife for weeks that Robbins was heading to Norfolk, despite his run-ins with Linnets supporters – especially online...

    Followed by 7 sentences of direct quotes from Setchell, then a final brief sentence of routine transaction material (listing some of Robbins' history). That is exactly what routine transaction news looks like. Absolutely not SIGCOV.
    • 8, from Stamford Mercury, starts with 3 sentences announcing his contract with Evo-Stik and some stats from his past season at Stamford. Then it's a 3-sentence quote from Robbins, a 3-sentence quote from the Stamford manager, then 2.5 sentences mentioning his playing for Stamford and St K&N and his upcoming schedule of WC qualifiers. Then 5 more sentences of quotes from Robbins followed by one sentence telling us he's flying out to training camp "next Sunday". This is a small-town interview of a local footballer that amounts to <6 sentences of coverage, several of them not even of encyclopedic material (like his flights and future matches).
    • 10, from Northamptonshire Telegraph, begins with 3 sentences of routine transaction material announcing Robbin's signing, plugging an upcoming local game, mentioning Robbins had played with Corby before, and listing his former teams. The next 4 sentences have nothing to do with Robbins, then there's the sentence Robbins joins other recent arrivals Alistair Worby and Robbie Parsons at Steel Park, then 2 more sentences unrelated to Robbins. Not SIGCOV.
    • 11, from Eastern Daily Press, announces the King's Lynn contract fell through and contains 9 sentences describing/quoting the coach's reaction. It has 1 sentence stating where Robbins is now likely to play and 1 sentence repeating that he scored 34 goals the previous season. Nowhere close to SIGCOV.
    • 12, from Hinckley Times, is another announcement that Robbins isn't joining the Linnets. Sentence 1 is a bird pun, 2 states Robbins fell out with King's Lynn and joined Barwell instead, 3 & 4 mention this was because of cyberbullying from Lynn fans, the last 3 are basically quotes.
    • 13, from Lincolnshire World, announces Robbins has signed with Boston United. It starts with straight primary reporting of what Robbins/the club had said, a plug about the match he might play in "tomorrow", more repeating of what Robbins/Stamford "felt", 5 sentences of other Stamford club news, and 5 sentences of the usual transaction stats (when he joined Stamford, how he did in the prior 2 seasons, and his capping during St K&N WC qualifiers). This piece also appears to be plagiarized from a Stamford Mercury article so should not be considered reliable anyway.[29] JoelleJay (talk) 01:55, 23 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Modified per JoelleJay’s comments below. Frank Anchor 16:29, 12 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete I have read through the given references and they are not SIGCOV. They do not provide enough information to write an entire biography about the subject. Carpimaps (talk) 01:55, 26 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: I just finished about two hours of going through the additional references provided above and I conclude that they demonstrate sufficient WP:SIGCOV to establish notability satisfying WP:GNG and WP:NATHLETE. If the subject wasn’t notable, then deletion could be considered. However, as other editors and I myself have explained, the subject is notable and thus the article shouldn’t be considered eligible for deletion. Shawn Teller (talk) 02:26, 26 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Hi @Shawn Teller, which sources do you think are SIGCOV and do not fall under routine sports news? JoelleJay (talk) 22:42, 26 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Randykitty (talk) 18:24, 26 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete - After spending more time than I planned going through the sources mentioned above, I conclude that there isn't significant coverage available. Essentially all of the sources above are routine coverage (typically from a small newspaper located in the town where he played club football) announcing his signing, his manager's/club's plans for his future, but very rarely describing his accomplishments or what might make him notable. Although he may have scored a goal for his national team, I don't think that's a claim to notability unless media sources acknowledge it as one (particularly beyond his own club's hometown paper). Jogurney (talk) 04:13, 3 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep - It's near impossible for players from smaller countries to get on here due to St. Kitts having 2 whole newspapers and nobody else who is willing to cover them. He played for the national team and played in other countries as well.KatoKungLee (talk) 19:42, 6 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: so if he "played for other countries as well", why isn't there substantial coverage? Supposedly those other countries would have more than 2 newspapers... --Randykitty (talk) 20:21, 6 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Not to mention that that country is England as well which has no shortage in football coverage at all levels. Spiderone(Talk to Spider) 13:59, 8 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Timothytyy (talk) 06:02, 6 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment - I have just spent an hour and a half doing a WP:HEY and vastly expanded the article with the sources. Thanks, Das osmnezz (talk) 17:45, 8 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Article expansion is 100% irrelevant if no GNG sources have been identified. That just means you've filled the article with trivial routine details that do not belong in an encyclopedia. JoelleJay (talk) 17:58, 8 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Like I have said before, other editors and I disagree with your opinion that the 13+ sources do not provide IRS SIGCOV, as shown in the keep votes above (which outnumber the delete votes). Also, WP:HEY states that it can be "invoked during deletion discussions to point out that an article has been significantly improved since it was nominated for deletion". It's fine, we can agree to disagree. Thanks, Das osmnezz (talk) 19:21, 8 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak Keep. I'd say we should keep this partially per WP:BIAS (St. Kitts and the Nevis barely has anybody with articles), partially as a pass of NBASIC (If the depth of coverage in any given source is not substantial, then multiple independent sources may be combined to demonstrate notability), and because as shown by the expansion, we clearly have enough material to write a biography on this player. BeanieFan11 (talk) 20:18, 8 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • I don't think BIAS is applicable here. Other footballers who represent St. Kitts and play semi-pro club football in England have more comprehensive coverage (look at Harry Panayiotou who has received much more coverage than Robbins, such as [30] or [31]). If Robbins had a higher profile (or played at least a bit of fully-pro club football), I'm sure we would see more significant online coverage. I don't believe Das osmnezz's article expansion demonstrates that the GNG is met either. Jogurney (talk) 15:44, 9 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete: There are not the required multiple pieces of SIGCOV to meet GNG. The sources are routine match recaps or transactional announcements, which do not contribute to NBASIC. This shows in the article based on them that is filled with minutiae around signings, penalty card counting, and goal (re)counting. 2A02:8308:30D:5000:10CD:DAF0:2B6F:FA85 (talk) 02:03, 10 March 2023 (UTC) — 2A02:8308:30D:5000:10CD:DAF0:2B6F:FA85 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]
I find it very odd and convenient that the only Wikipedia contribution by your IP address account is just specifically for this deletion discussion... Thanks, Das osmnezz (talk) 23:45, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Second @Das osmnezz:
The circumstances of this vote (IP, first edit) should be taken into account when determining consensus in this discussion. Shawn Teller (talk) 17:17, 11 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep : as per others above Christopheronthemove (talk) 10:23, 11 March 2023 (UTC) — Christopheronthemove (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]
    I don’t think the SPA tag is appropriate for this vote. The editor has made many other edits outside of this deletion discussion. Shawn Teller (talk) 17:22, 11 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    They're a 1-day-old account that has made edits almost exclusively to deletion discussions/AfD'd articles. JoelleJay (talk) 20:19, 11 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    I also don’t find this SPA tag appropriate as the user has commented on a wide array of AFDs, so I am striking it. I do find jumping into AFDs as a new account to be unusual (but not in the scope of WP:SPA), but it is possible the user created a new account for legitimate purposes (e.g. forgot password). Frank Anchor 13:39, 12 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Shawn Teller and JoelleJay; see Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Jehowahyereh. Akevsharma (talk) 11:13, 13 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. I added SPA tags to the two above accounts, although I'll note the IP is dynamic so might have contributed elsewhere. JoelleJay (talk) 16:50, 11 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    No one has demonstrated how the coverage here, which stems exclusively from reporting on transaction announcements, actually goes beyond the routine material from local outlets expected for players at this level. Transactional coverage falls under NOTNEWS: routine news coverage of announcements, events, sports, or celebrities, while sometimes useful, is not by itself a sufficient basis for inclusion of the subject of that coverage and is additionally described in ROUTINE: Per Wikipedia policy, routine news coverage of such things as announcements are not sufficient basis for an article. Planned coverage of scheduled events, especially when those involved in the event are also promoting it, is considered to be routine. ... Routine events such as sports matches, film premieres, press conferences etc.
    Sports orgs distribute announcements of transfers, injuries, etc. to the media (via press releases containing player stats and history, press conferences, and interviews) with the express purpose of promoting their players/clubs. If such material was acceptable for establishing GNG/BASIC, players with signings, transfers, and injuries in non-FPL leagues would always have warranted a page (potentially without ever even playing a match!) under NFOOTY, which was supposed to be calibrated to (a very weak version of) GNG. And yet some of the same editors advocating to keep here regularly !voted to delete such players under that regime. NSPORT2022 didn't change GNG, so why are the routine transactional announcements dismissed[32] for so long by NFOOTY now suddenly evidence of GNG?
    As an aside, all the non-quoted content in #8 is actually identical to the routine contract announcement published in the same small-town paper by their dedicated Stamford AFC reporter 9 days earlier (itself derived from whichever statement released by delighted Daniels official prompted this announcement from Evo-Stik), so it actually does fall under transactional news. JoelleJay (talk) 16:20, 12 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Thank you for bringing this up, as it makes me reconsider my assertions above. Frank Anchor 16:29, 12 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. This BLP is exclusively a list of routine sporting transactions, cited exclusively with routine sporting news. The only information we get about the person comes in a single interview. For whatever reason, users may cast wild and unfortunate aspersions against User:JoelleJay and her source analysis, but nobody in this process has successfully challenged her assertions. BusterD (talk) 10:05, 13 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - "The only information we get about the person comes in a single interview"... clearly based on the page there is a decent amount of information about the person that comes from a variety of different sources (after I literally spent an couple hours doing WP:HEY and vastly expanding this article), many of which are not just routine sporting transactions. Thanks, Das osmnezz (talk) 21:30, 13 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I'll grant there is a large quantity of routine sporting news, but no quality sources. It's just "Robbins starts", "Robbins leaves", "Robbins plays", "Robbins says". Nowhere applied do we find out anything about this living person subject except sports but for the interviews. Nobody has directly detailed this subject, so it still fails the new SNG, which requires at least one SIGCOV, and I'm not seeing it applied. I'm quite unhappy about folks disparaging User:JoelleJay and their assertions here, which seem to my eyes totally correct assessments. BusterD (talk) 15:21, 20 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep the posted sources above establish notability. I disagree with JoelleJay’s analysis of the sources no matter how much WP:BLUDGEONing this user does to try to get their point across. I agree with Frank Anchor’s above analysis of the sources presented by Das osmnezz in that there is enough significant coverage to slightly pass GNG. Carson Wentz (talk) 03:00, 14 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Users should focus their attention on the subject under discussion, not those discussing. As of this datestamp, JoelleJay has made seven edits to this process, two to point out clear SPAs, three to give source analyses. I know using the word "bludgeoning" has become trendy in these procedures, but JoelleJay is not guilty of bludgeoning anything. I regard such unsupported characterizations without evidence as personal attack. The other two leading contributors are User:Das osmnezz with nine edits (mostly presenting and discussing new sources), and User:Frank Anchor with 8 (who has softened their keep after paying attention to JoelleJay's assertions). Let's discuss the footballer, and not the good faith edits of our fellows. Nobody in this discussion is out of line, yet. BusterD (talk) 15:37, 20 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The linked essay above defines bludgeoning as “ where someone attempts to force their point of view by the sheer volume of comments, such as contradicting every viewpoint that is different from their own.” which is exactly what JoelleJay has done based on the repetitive WP:WALLSOFTEXT this user has added after any user disagrees with them. I apologize if other people find that term to have a more negative connotation than I believe it does. I also find it quite odd that BusterD wants to go back to discussing the topic of the AFD rather than the participants in the discussion and then goes on to, without evidence, accuse myself and other users of “disparaging” JoelleJay and making “personal attacks.” So which way do you want it to go, Buster? Carson Wentz (talk) 22:48, 20 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
For the record, I also read your comment as undue. A gentle reminder to WP:AGF of discussion participants. Suriname0 (talk) 13:27, 21 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Seraphimblade Talk to me 03:43, 14 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep passes notability per sources. Shotgun pete (talk) 24:49, 21 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per JoelleJay's source analysis. –dlthewave ☎ 02:16, 22 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete Most sources are routine transactional news or run-of-the-mill details and do not count towards GNG. Avilich (talk) 02:41, 22 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - Other editors and I disagree with your opinion that the 13+ sources are all "routine transactional news or run-of-the-mill details", as shown in the keep votes above (which outnumber the delete votes). Many of the sources go into his background. Also, WP:HEY states that it can be "invoked during deletion discussions to point out that an article has been significantly improved since it was nominated for deletion". It's fine, we can agree to disagree. Thanks, Das osmnezz (talk) 19:43, 22 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep I find it odd how people work to each source and not the overall picture of sources, combined they do build a picture for WP:BASIC. No one has done a complete source breakdown either, there are currently over 30 sources in the article which does form the basis of what is needed, there are a lot worse articles out there which are kept with just three sources. If the deletionists are going with source analysis, then they need to do a proper job, because what I see above isn't good enough. Govvy (talk) 13:37, 23 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. The single "keep" !vote argues rather eloquently that sources will most likely never be found. Randykitty (talk) 18:20, 26 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Alexis Saddler

Alexis Saddler (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:GNG and lacks WP:SIGCOV. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 17:59, 19 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 09:57, 26 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Kyle Thomson

Kyle Thomson (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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fails WP:GNG Joeykai (talk) 09:28, 19 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Salvio giuliano 21:52, 25 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Kareem Mitchum

Kareem Mitchum (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:GNG and lacks WP:SIGCOV. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 16:51, 18 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

None of those points are relevant to WP:GNG and WP:SPORTBASIC. Having reviewed all of the sources added, none of them show significant prose coverage. In fact, most are database sources, which are specifically excluded from conferring notability by SPORTBASIC. Spiderone(Talk to Spider) 17:09, 25 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
St. Kitts and Nevis has 2 newspapers, a small population and limited internet reach. I don't know what kind of coverage is to be expected of someone in that situation. There's not much more he can do that be a top division player and play for the national team. He's in 8 databases or so and has been mentioned multiple times. ESPN or whatever has never covered a player from St. Kitts and none of us are local to get a magazine or something. None of these teams have websites either and social media websites are not allowed for sources. KatoKungLee (talk) 20:28, 25 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Source assessment table:
Source Independent? Reliable? Significant coverage? Count source toward GNG?
https://www.national-football-teams.com/player/27697/Kareem_Mitchum.html Yes Yes No Database source, WP:SPORTBASIC specifically excludes these. ✘ No
https://fbref.com/en/players/61b60427/Kareem-Mitchum No No No Database source, WP:SPORTBASIC specifically excludes these. ✘ No
https://www.soccerstand.com/player/mitchum-kareem/vJlr60UQ/ Yes Yes No Database source, WP:SPORTBASIC specifically excludes these. ✘ No
https://us.soccerway.com/players/kareem-mitchum/158217// Yes Yes No Database source, WP:SPORTBASIC specifically excludes these. ✘ No
https://www.flashscore.es/jugador/mitchum-kareem/vJlr60UQ/ Yes Yes No Database source, WP:SPORTBASIC specifically excludes these. ✘ No
https://www.besoccer.com/player/k-mitchum-358108 Yes Yes No Database source, WP:SPORTBASIC specifically excludes these. ✘ No
https://www.voetbalkrant.com/saint-kitts-en-nevis/mitchum-kareem/wedstrijden Yes Yes No Database source, WP:SPORTBASIC specifically excludes these. ✘ No
https://fr.soccerstats247.com/joueurs/kareem-mitchum-158217/ Yes Yes No Database source, WP:SPORTBASIC specifically excludes these. ✘ No
https://www.sknvibes.com/news/newsdetails.cfm/34753 Yes Yes No Mentioned once ✘ No
https://spiceislander.com/the-spice-boys-look-to-go-one-better-in-2010-and-win-the-digicel-cup/ Yes Yes No Squad list mention ✘ No
https://spiceislander.com/honours-a-piece-in-digicel-cup-thriller/ Yes Yes No Squad list mention ✘ No
http://www.theplayersagent.com/profile/133784/kareem_mitchum No No No Database source, WP:SPORTBASIC specifically excludes these. ✘ No
This table may not be a final or consensus view; it may summarize developing consensus, or reflect assessments of a single editor. Created using {{source assess table}}.
Spiderone(Talk to Spider) 20:43, 25 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. Salvio giuliano 21:49, 25 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Geovannie Lake

Geovannie Lake (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:GNG and lacks WP:SIGCOV. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 16:28, 18 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. Sandstein 09:15, 4 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Chad Mansley

Chad Mansley (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Articles fails WP:GNG. Simione001 (talk) 21:16, 16 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment - I have only nominated 6 articles today. These 3 references simply do not satisfy WP:GNG. One is about him not getting offered a contract after a trial, i mean really? Simione001 (talk) 22:03, 16 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comments I am not sure, if you should put Newcastle Jets down or the previous incarnation names. [36], he was listed in this history article [37], but don't know more about his role at the club during the time. There is too much WP:ROUTINE and that is concerning, I don't think I see a GNG pass regardless of the A League and fully pro league games in the English league, somewhat concerning. Govvy (talk) 09:21, 17 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - no evidence of notability. First link above does not even work. If sources are found please ping me. GiantSnowman 10:34, 18 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep passes GNG With coverage above.--Ortizesp (talk) 09:28, 20 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete for lack of significant coverage in reliable sources. The odd passing mention is not enough to establish notability. The first reference given above returns nothing, and is not even on the Wayback Machine. Fails GNG. Springnuts (talk) 11:08, 24 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: is sourcing sufficient or not?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Star Mississippi 18:31, 24 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment on sufficiency of sourcing - insufficient imo as above: lack of significant coverage. Springnuts (talk) 18:41, 24 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete Sources are not sufficient to meet GNG. The three provided above, the first one leads to a dead end, second one mentions the subject once and the third one pulls up a database. Not enough for SIGCOV. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 04:34, 27 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep, the article has several sources that deal with the subject in detail. Hack (talk) 02:28, 1 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - @GiantSnowman:, @Govvy:, @Springnuts:, many sources have been added to the article. Thanks, Das osmnezz (talk) 20:50, 2 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep per sources which show notability. GiantSnowman 21:55, 2 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. There appears to be legitimate disagreement as to whether the sources provided constitute SIGCOV, but numerically the tilt toward deletion is sufficient to constitute consensus in this case. Vanamonde (Talk) 21:48, 4 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Scott MacNicol

Scott MacNicol (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Article fails WP:GNG. Simione001 (talk) 21:08, 16 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment - more like 6 mate. You found some decent references for this one I'll give you that. Simione001 (talk) 22:05, 16 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • They are not all from today so not nominated in short time as you suggested. Thanks. Simione001 (talk) 22:22, 16 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Sure, they are not all from the same day but it is still a relatively short time. Also, I appreciate you creating many soccer articles no matter how small they are, but I find it frustrating that you do that while deleting many others hard work such as Dauntae Mariner and this article. Thanks, Das osmnezz (talk) 23:00, 16 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment MacNicol or McNicol ? The old BBC ref has McNicol, [45], but it seems MacNicol is more correct. No profile on soccerway is a red flag for me. Also, he is manager for a semi pro club where as the club article Rochedale Rovers FC is in terrible shape, (shouldn't it be moved to Rochedale Rovers F.C.?) Regardless of the citations and cover. From the article and provided above, I am not really that impressed. To me it's a case of citations being too local to the location of the club and where they play. I am not sure whether to weak keep or side with delete which is the way I am leaning too. Govvy (talk) 09:02, 17 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete I tried to have a look into this, but I am still not impressed, with the sourcing available in the article, the links posted above and google. To me this is not sufficient to pass GNG on wikipedia. Govvy (talk) 23:23, 24 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Govvy:, @GiantSnowman:, [46] and [47] are from national UK newspapers. The many other sources I found above are all from reliable sources and newspapers as well. Also definitely has offline coverage, having played and scored in fully pro Scottish Premier League and had extensive career in Australian top flight and as a coach. Thanks, Das osmnezz (talk) 20:36, 1 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The coverage might be from good, reputable sources (although the Record is a tabloid), but it is not significant. GiantSnowman 21:46, 1 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Das osmnezz: Sorry, but my delete vote still stands, I still don't see enough here. Regards, Govvy (talk) 22:31, 2 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. GiantSnowman 10:33, 18 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep, significant sources that pass GNG.--Ortizesp (talk) 09:26, 20 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep, significant sources that (albeit just) pass GNG. Springnuts (talk) 11:13, 24 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Modussiccandi (talk) 11:32, 25 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete The sources above are not independent enough to pass GNG, interviews and such. There is insufficient coverage. Also, I don't see how mentioning that the nominator has also nominated numerous other articles is relevant here. --IWI (talk) 11:40, 25 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete The sources listed by Das osmnezz come nowhere close to meeting GNG. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 04:32, 27 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete Sources are individual match reports, interviews or not significant and as such do not meet GNG. Avilich (talk) 04:46, 3 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 00:15, 26 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Kailo Karpeh

Kailo Karpeh (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Article fails WP:GNG.

  • Comment - 25? That is false. Anyway, I'd say that all of the references are no more than trivial mentions. This guy has been playing amateur football in Adelaide for several years which is where I come from. He is not notable. Simione001 (talk) 21:54, 16 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • They are not all from today so not nominated in short time as you suggested. Thanks. Simione001 (talk) 22:22, 16 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Sure, they are not all from the same day but it is still a relatively short time. Also, I appreciate you creating many soccer articles no matter how small they are, but I find it frustrating that you do that while deleting many others hard work. Thanks, Das osmnezz (talk) 23:36, 16 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. GiantSnowman 10:32, 18 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep passes GNG with sources on page.--Ortizesp (talk) 09:26, 20 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - There are a number of sources included with the article, but none appear to even approach being in-depth coverage. The Sportskeeda entry appeared to be useful, but it's dedicated to his older brother (with just one brief sentence about Kailo). I couldn't find anything else that suggests WP:GNG could be met. Also, the idea suggested above that the nominator is "trying to delete other users articles" is troubling (it backs my suspicion that some editors participating in football biography AfDs take a view of "ownership" over articles that simply isn't acceptable). Jogurney (talk) 20:42, 21 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete, lack of significant coverage in reliable sources - fails GNG. Springnuts (talk) 11:15, 24 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - despite playing for a plethora of clubs, I was unable to find any sources that meet GNG's requirements Spiderone(Talk to Spider) 23:57, 25 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was redirect to Grand Pro Wrestling. Star Mississippi 14:45, 3 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Danny Hope (wrestler)

Danny Hope (wrestler) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Another independent no notable wrestler. Sources are just WP:ROUTINE with no focus on him. Quick research, also ROUTINE results [48] HHH Pedrigree (talk) 09:28, 16 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Salvio giuliano 12:57, 23 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Delete No in-depth sources found from my search Carpimaps (talk) 13:45, 23 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Redirect to Grand Pro Wrestling which mentions this subject. I also cannot find sourcing which passes WP:PW/RS to meet GNG. - "Ghost of Dan Gurney" (work / talk)
  • One of the things that needs to be kept in mind here is that there are no major wrestling organizations outside of the US, Mexico, Japan and Puerto Rico (and people here who don't know better would question those wrestlers). Most of the wrestlers in the world are going to be indy wrestlers. I don't know if that's fair since the pathway to getting into a major company if you aren't from 7 or so countries is extremely difficult.KatoKungLee (talk) 18:19, 1 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was keep. This one was a close call, and neither side of the debate on the sources really seems to have convinced the other of anything, but opinion since the article was expanded on 8 March looks to have shifted towards a consensus to keep. – filelakeshoe (t / c) 🐱 12:07, 9 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Jakub Kaszuba

Jakub Kaszuba (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Not notable and doesn't pass GNG HeinzMaster (talk) 01:16, 15 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Football, and Poland. HeinzMaster (talk) 01:16, 15 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. I tend to think we have too many catalogue-entries for minor sportspeople. He played in Ekstraklasa (top level in Poland), but I think this might no longer be sufficient? Pl. wiki article does not cite any media coverage, I could probably dig something up but I am not motivated. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 04:13, 15 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Spiderone(Talk to Spider) 19:49, 15 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep - @Piotrus:, I found [49], [50], [51], [52], [53], [54], [55], [56], [57], [58],[59], [60], and [61], among many more Polish sources. Made 29 appearances and scored 4 goals for fully pro Polish top flight team. Article needs improvement, not deletion. Thanks, Das osmnezz (talk) 19:01, 16 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Some of this is niche (perhaps even fan-based), but an interview in Gazeta Krakowska is an evidence of some visiblity. Still, WP:INTERVIEWS are not high-quality sourcing. Bt to see he is not notable, well, the nom should now criticize the sources if they still disagree. Coverage has been found, not great but not a joke either. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 07:18, 17 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. 1 is a brief mention in a match recap, Red XN. 2 is a short blurb in a "where are they now" niche publication piece on Young Ekstraklasa players, Red XN. 3 is somewhat better, but is primarily focused on details of a transfer agreement between two clubs rather than direct coverage of Kaszuba, Red XN. 4 is an interview with some independent coverage, but it doesn't seem to be enough for GNG, Red XN. 5 is a pure Q&A interview, Red XN. 6 is another "where are they now" blurb with just a few sentences on him, Red XN. 7 is another Q&A interview, Red XN. 8 is yet another "WaTN" blurb lamenting his failed potential, Red XN. 9 is a tiny routine transaction announcement, why would you even include this? Red XN 10 is a Q&A interview, Red XN. 11–13 are articles straight from his club, obviously not independent, Red XN. JoelleJay (talk) 08:20, 17 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep per sources above which show notability. GiantSnowman 10:24, 18 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep per the sources above. #4 absolutely has enough non-interview content to be considered GNG-passing. In addition to that, WP:ANYBIO allows that if the depth of coverage in any given source is not substantial, then multiple independent sources may be combined to demonstrate notability. I believe there is enough non-trivial mentions along with the one GNG-passing source to allow for an article on this subject. Frank Anchor 17:31, 18 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    @Frank Anchor, that interview comes from ASInfo, which has the Polish Football Association (PZPN) as a PR/marketing client and thus is not independent. JoelleJay (talk) 23:20, 18 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Odd, because you specifically said it’s is an interview with some independent coverage. In my opinion there is enough independent coverage here. Frank Anchor 23:36, 18 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
That was my assessment before I noticed the byline at the bottom. I still disagree that it is sufficient coverage for GNG, but that's now irrelevant since it's not independent. JoelleJay (talk) 00:03, 19 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Kaszuba has played for at least four clubs overseen at the time by PZPN. And I don't see how any of those other sources satisfy the SPORTSBASIC SIGCOV requirements. JoelleJay (talk) 09:05, 19 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Even so, that is a HUGE stretch to say that is not an independent source since Mr. Kaszuba is not directly affiliated with the Polish FA (having no caps for the national team). That would be the equiilent of saying an ESPN article on an NBA player is not independent because ESPN has a media agreement with the NBA, and the thought of that being a non-independent source is simply laughable. However, with or without this as an independent source, there is still enough to pass ANYBIO. Frank Anchor 13:11, 20 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
A media agreement, where a news org is given direct press access to or exclusive coverage of events from a sports org, is different from the sports org being a PR client of an intermediary that produces articles for the sports org to distribute to the media. AFAIK the NBA does not have legal editorial control over what ESPN reports, whereas ASInfo is explicitly "[creating] PR information with great potential for publication in the media with a large reach." That is not an independent relationship. And I still do not see where you are finding he meets NBASIC. JoelleJay (talk) 18:33, 20 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
That's not what non-independent means. Ortizesp (talk) 09:21, 20 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep passes GNG.--Ortizesp (talk) 09:22, 20 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - Article fails WP:GNG; I cannot find in-depth coverage online - in fact Gazeta Krakowska has a blurb that sums up his career pretty well: "w seniorskiej piłce nie był skuteczny." ("in senior football, he wasn't effective"). There just isn't anything available that would be significant coverage. Jogurney (talk) 14:35, 21 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Besides the 13 sources I found above, I also found [62], [63], [64] and [65], among more Polish sources. Made 29 appearances and scored 4 goals for fully pro Polish top flight team and has extensive career in Polish lower leagues. Article needs improvement, not deletion. Thanks, Das osmnezz (talk) 18:29, 24 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  1. 14 is passing mentions in routine match coverage, #15 is routine transfer coverage with barely 2 sentences on him, #16 is passing mentions in routine match coverage, #17 is more routine transfer coverage. Why would you link these? JoelleJay (talk) 22:04, 24 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Shawn Teller (talk) 01:33, 22 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Timothytyy (talk) 04:08, 1 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment - I found 17+ sources above, many of which focus on Kaszuba or write about his career, with many more Polish sources on the internet I haven't listed here,. Made 29 appearances and scored 4 goals for fully pro Polish top flight team and also played in pro Polish lower leagues. Article needs improvement, not deletion. Thanks, Das osmnezz (talk) 19:47, 7 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    You found 17 sources that do not provide IRS SIGCOV, why should we trust your opinion that there are "many more Polish sources" out there over Jogurney's, especially when your !vote match rate across hundreds of athlete AfDs is nearly 40 percentage points lower than theirs? JoelleJay (talk) 20:26, 7 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Amen Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 20:33, 7 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Other editors and I disagree with your opinion that the 17 sources do not provide IRS SIGCOV, as shown in the keep votes above (which outnumber the delete votes). Its fine, we can agree to disagree. Also, I have just spent an hour doing a WP:HEY and vastly expanded the article with the sources. WP:HEY states that it can be "invoked during deletion discussions to point out that an article has been significantly improved since it was nominated for deletion". Thanks, Das osmnezz (talk) 00:41, 8 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I could list many more that have been kept. I'm not gaming any system, as far as I'm concerned, any person that plays sports but is only found as a brief mention in a database is not notable. But that's clearly not the standard in play for many American sports. JMWt (talk) 08:29, 9 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I agree that any person that plays sports but only has database sources or brief mentions in others is not notable. WP:NSPORTS2022 reaffirmed that athletes need enough SIGCOV to pass GNG for their articles to be kept. Despite that, there have been attempts by many users to bypass that in various ways, some successful and some not, and not just on articles on American athletes, such as the above mentioned. I follow various sport related AfD's, and if anything, American sport related AfD's are not the biggest culprit in the problems we are having with sport related AfD's. And even if that was that was the case, !voting keep here to prove a WP:POINT makes the !voter just as much part of the problem as those attempting to game the system. Alvaldi (talk) 10:48, 9 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was keep. Galobtter (pingó mió) 07:11, 2 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Fred Robinson (baseball)

Fred Robinson (baseball) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails GNG. No significant coverage beyond a listing of stats from his 3 games. Wes sideman (talk) 18:40, 13 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Baseball, and Massachusetts. Shellwood (talk) 19:07, 13 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep How much searching did you do WP:BEFORE nominating this? Here's his obituary. It's not easy to find sources on him given the timeframe and his common name, but given that his brother is in the Hall of Fame, I'd be surprised if I couldn't find more if I put the time into it. – Muboshgu (talk) 20:03, 13 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete: Good grief, everyone gets an obituary; that's no more indicative of notability than a birth notice. If you believe that the subject has received significant coverage in multiple reliable sources -- beyond casual mentions and namedrops -- provide the evidence. Nor does his brother being in the HOF matter worth a fig. That it's putatively hard to find such sources doesn't constitute a waiver of the GNG; it means that an article on the subject can't be sustained. Ravenswing 20:32, 13 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep has played at the Majors level, which is sufficient for our purposes. Oaktree b (talk) 20:43, 13 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I swear we used to have a criteria for WP:BASEBALL but I can't find it. Oaktree b (talk) 20:49, 13 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It was deleted in the giant WP:NSPORTS2022 RfC which affirmed the requirement all athletes must meet GNG. NBASE never conferred notability anyway. JoelleJay (talk) 23:14, 13 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Come on, Oaktree b. That RfC closed over a year ago. Don't you think it's high time you acquainted yourself with the notability guidelines we have in place? Either you're ignorant of the guidelines or you're just plain deliberately defying them (and perhaps hoping that closing admins don't notice), and neither is a good look for someone for whom the overwhelming bulk of your recent contributions are at AfD, many sports ones among them. Ravenswing 05:21, 14 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I haven't kept up to date on all the minutiae here, it's a rather overwhelming process. Oaktree b (talk) 16:49, 15 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I appreciate that; you are of course the best judge of your own time and energies. But if you're not able to keep up with current notability standards, you shouldn't be voting in AfDs until you can ... and one would think that you'd at least strike positions based on outdated information, as in the case here. Ravenswing 19:47, 15 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think that comment was called for. Not everyone can keep up with every change to notability guidelines and it is easy for someone to miss the fact that a guideline has changed. It is not as if every change is broadcast widely in a manner that all editors can be instantly aware. Editors are permitted to participate in AfDs without checking every notability guideline every time. Rlendog (talk) 18:06, 21 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I never understand why "bite and berate" is ever considered a good strategy in this situation. Oaktree b's contributions to AfD are valuable. - "Ghost of Dan Gurney" (work / talk) 15:16, 22 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
"Don't Bite the OG Editors" isn't yet a saying yet. Newbies, yeah don't bit them. The old farts, go ahead (sigh). I'm doing my best with the time I have, I haven't asked to become and Admin for that reason. I'm also active in other projects off-wiki, so I can't be here as often as I'd like. Oaktree b (talk) 20:23, 22 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Weak keep With the obituary and the book mention below, I'm willing to give it a pass. Oaktree b (talk) 20:23, 22 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

And this [66] with his brother's weight and some other silly stats that baseball nuts like myself enjoy. We can infer stuff from here [67], his father was a butcher. Here's a family photo [68] Oaktree b (talk) 20:27, 22 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]


Changed to keep per Rlendog and Hatman31. However if consensus not to keep is found, I prefer redirect as an ATD. Frank Anchor 23:03, 26 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete and redirect. No SIGCOV identified. JoelleJay (talk) 23:17, 13 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Why not keep the history so it can be restored if sigcov is identified? BeanieFan11 (talk) 23:24, 13 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Why keep the history when all it contains is three very brief sentences? JoelleJay (talk) 00:22, 14 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Because its easier than to have to recreate the sentences, source, infobox, and categories. BeanieFan11 (talk) 00:24, 14 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. I think the book entry you found and the newspaper entries found by Penale52 below fall a little short of GNG but it is certainly a start. Frank Anchor 11:38, 14 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • That is a 2-sentence baseball directory entry, not SIGCOV. JoelleJay (talk) 00:25, 14 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Its 12.5 lines dedicated to him, not a "2-sentence baseball directory entry." BeanieFan11 (talk) 00:30, 14 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Are you able to see more of the Frederic Robinson entry? All I can cobble together without page previews is the blurb on 169 sandwiching some semi-prosified stats, which obviously don't count:

Robinson, Frederic Henry "Fred"...[basic life metrics]...[baseball stats]
Debut: 4/17/84 at Cincinnati; played 2B and went 1-for-4 in a 7-2 win over Altoona's John Murphy
Finale: 4/19/84 at Cincinnati; played 2B and went 1-for-5 in a 9-6 win over Altoona's Jim Brown
Fred Robinson was the older brother of Hall of Famer Wilbert Robinson.

That's really only one prose sentence. JoelleJay (talk) 00:52, 14 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oh I see now, the snippet says 169 doesn't have a preview, but it does. The rest of the bio (coverage of him bolded) says

He is the only performer to participate in more than one ML game and play his entire career against only Altoona, the smallest city ever to field an ML team. After serving on the Cincinnati Union reserves in the preseason, he was inserted in the regular lineup but seemed nervous in his debut, muffing two easy pop flies. His play improved only marginally in the next two games. After Cincinnati's third game with Altoona, there was a five-day hiatus before the Outlaw Reds opened their second series of the season against Chicago. When the team next took the field in Cincinnati on April 24, Ri Jones was at 2B. Robinson returned to the reserves, but they were disbanded within a few days. In 1933 he was working as a janitor at a bank in Hudson, MA, when he suffered a heart attack while shoveling snow off the sidewalk outside the bank.


That's still barely anything; if that's the extent of all info on Robinson then there shouldn't be a standalone page on him. JoelleJay (talk) 01:02, 14 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment I found a few newspapers.com hits of Robinson. Two are from him signing with Cincinnati, and they mention he played for the Hudson club of Massachusetts, apparently as their captain. I didn't see much outside of boxscore recaps mentioning Robinson and his brothers for Hudson games pre-1884. But apparently they won a championship in 1880? Also found another write-up mentioning him in 1916. Penale52 (talk) 23:55, 13 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Yeah, the trouble is that none of that constitutes "significant coverage" of the subject. If casual namedrops in routine sports coverage sufficed -- which it explicitly does not -- every starter on a high school team in the United States would qualify for a Wikipedia article. I could, for instance, easily present multiple articles from daily newspapers giving similar coverage to a local sports figure; she's a 9th grader who plays on small town high school softball and volleyball teams in Massachusetts' most rural county, and whatever Madi's virtues, no one sane is championing her for a Wikipedia article any time soon. Ravenswing 05:07, 14 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep - First of all, I disagree with the opinion that the bio in "The Rank & File" isn't SIGCOV - that guideline does not require coverage to be of any particular length, just that it "addresses the topic directly and in detail", which the author does in this case. Second, while none of the newspaper articles are especially in depth, NBASIC says that "If the depth of coverage in any given source is not substantial, then multiple independent sources may be combined to demonstrate notability"; while the second part of that guideline disqualifies "trivial" coverage from establishing notability, as I said above, I believe the "Rank & File" bio is nontrivial, so both parts of NBASIC are met, meaning this article narrowly passes Wikipedia's guidelines for inclusion. That said, if consensus is that it doesn't, I would support a redirect to the page suggested by Frank Anchor as an ATD. Hatman31 (talk) 16:24, 16 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    @Hatman31, even if you consider that source to be GNG-contributing, NSPORT and GNG still require multiple such sources, and NBASIC wouldn't be met either since it's just the one "good" source + trivial routine mentions. JoelleJay (talk) 21:24, 16 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    I disagree with that interpretation of NBASIC. If that's how it's intended to be read, it contradicts itself. Hatman31 (talk) 17:47, 19 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    How? NBASIC explicitly discounts trivial coverage, so you have to find sources that are somewhere in between "trivial" and "significant". JoelleJay (talk) 21:32, 19 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge what is relevant into his brother's article at Wilbert_Robinson#Family. Best, GPL93 (talk) 21:32, 16 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Timothytyy (talk) 04:13, 21 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Even if not notable, should be redirected to his brother's article, which has information about him. And no need to use the delete button before redirecting, tin case more information about him becomes available. Rlendog (talk) 17:27, 21 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak keep - I was on the fence. But he has coverage which, especially considering the vintage (and the fact that most reliable sources that may have provided coverage are now lost or at least difficult to find) I am willing to consider significant enough. I will make 2 other points. While I agree with Ravenswing's analysis of Penale's sources that similar coverage of a high school player would not be significant coverage, playing for a Major League team is far more "significant" than playing for a high school team. Even if we discount those, there is still at least the obituary and the and the Rank & File coverage. And I'll note that the obituary - from 1933 and thus almost a century closer to the subject than we are - states explicitly that the subject "achieved noteriety", and I would trust a 1933 newspaper on that point more than our subjective judgments (and I realize that the newspaper is not necessarily applying Wikipedia notability guidelines, which of course did not exist then, but is trying to make a similar point). In any case, as per my earlier comment, if not kept it should be merged or redirected to his brother's article. Rlendog (talk) 15:53, 23 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    @Rlendog, the obituary is not independent and so cannot count towards GNG. JoelleJay (talk) 20:06, 23 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
You don't know that. BeanieFan11 (talk) 20:12, 23 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@JoelleJay: What is your basis for saying that? Rlendog (talk) 20:39, 23 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak Keep. I think Rlendog makes a pretty good argument. BeanieFan11 (talk) 16:09, 23 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was soft delete. Based on minimal participation, this uncontroversial nomination is treated as an expired PROD (a.k.a. "soft deletion"). Editors can request the article's undeletion. Joyous! | Talk 01:54, 28 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Joe Meara

Joe Meara (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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There are 20 or so search results in both the British Newspaper Archive and NewsBank for Meara, but these all seem to be routine coverage of results. There are some online matches, but I found nothing that would contribute to the subject meeting WP:GNG. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 14:33, 13 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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The result was soft delete. Based on minimal participation, this uncontroversial nomination is treated as an expired PROD (a.k.a. "soft deletion"). Editors can request the article's undeletion. Liz Read! Talk! 21:51, 25 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thales Turini

Thales Turini (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Non-notable tennis player who fails to meet WP:GNG. Never won an ATP level tournament or appeared in an ATP Tour main draw so also fails to meet WP:NTENNIS Adamtt9 (talk) 18:08, 11 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete as the sources found do not demonstrate notability under guidelines. Barkeep49 (talk) 20:02, 1 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Ayana Rengiil

Ayana Rengiil (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:GNG and WP:NTENNIS. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 00:28, 7 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - I've expanded the article with material from local sources, and it should meet GNG now. This material wasn't hard to find, and I'm surprised the nominator went straight for deletion rather than improvement.--IdiotSavant (talk) 01:57, 7 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
None of the sources you added come even close to meeting WP:GNG, yet alone WP:NTENNIS.
1) [69] Mentions the subject once in the ENTIRE article, clear fail of WP:SIGCOV.
2) [70] the subject is mentioned twice, and the article is not about the subject. Clear fail of GNG.
3) [71] same as #2, which says the subject graduated with a degree, nothing else. Another clear fail of GNG.
4) [72] This is a report written by the subject and not independent of her. Therefore it is another fails of WP:GNG. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 04:15, 7 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I note you overlook the PlatformSports article, which is entirely about her.--IdiotSavant (talk) 04:46, 7 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It doesn't seem like an independent source, would you agree? CT55555(talk) 05:01, 7 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. DaffodilOcean (talk) 03:47, 7 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. Argument made by IdiotSavant above is convincing. CT55555(talk) 03:55, 7 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Please review my GNG analysis of the sources in the article. All four sources added are clear fails of WP:GNG. @CT55555 Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 04:16, 7 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Number 2 mentions the subject seven times and number 3 is about her and one other person only. So I don't assess the sources the same way, but I do think that it's a weaker pass than I first assessed. Seems like a weak WP:BASIC pass perhaps? CT55555(talk) 04:30, 7 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete The available coverage is totally trivial, mostly of a scholarship grant and graduation, with little to nothing of an actual tennis career. Below is a source assessment table based on this revision

Source assessment table:
Source Independent? Reliable? Significant coverage? Count source toward GNG?
1 Yes No "recently presented with the first ever Presidential Valedictorian Award with an all-expense paid trip to Disneyland in Hong Kong with their family." ✘ No
2 Yes No "graduated Summa Cum Laude in electrical engineering from Alabama Agriculture & Mechanical University ... was on a fully paid tennis scholarship from the University" ✘ No
3 No No ✘ No
4 Yes No "graduated with a Bachelor of Science Degree in Electrical Engineering from the Alabama A & M University in the USA. She will be an intern with Koror State Government Solid-Waste Management Program." ✘ No
5 No ✘ No
6 ? ? No WP:YOUNGATH ✘ No
7 Yes No "victorious in alos 5 matches and impressively lost only once" ✘ No
This table may not be a final or consensus view; it may summarize developing consensus, or reflect assessments of a single editor. Created using {{source assess table}}.
Avilich (talk) 15:08, 7 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 01:13, 14 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete. Number 2 lacks independence/secondariness -- most of it is repeating what Roki (her cousin) "felt" or "thought" or "decided", and at the end the author writes "Here's to you Roki! Keep going! We are all rooting for you!" which clearly eliminates it as an independent source (making it at best an opinion column, which can't be used for BLPs). I also cannot find any editorial info on IslandTimes Palau, so there is no way to assess whether it is RS or whether any of its staff are related to Rengiil (the above source indicates some are). The third source is very clearly a PR announcement from the PNSB program ("PNSB is proud to welcome home..." plus contact info at the bottom) and so also fails GNG (not that it was SIGCOV anyway). JoelleJay (talk) 21:08, 14 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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  • Delete - Avilich, JoelleJay and Sportsfan have all assessed the sources comprehensively and I agree with the points made; they are insufficient for GNG. Spiderone(Talk to Spider) 09:50, 21 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. TonyBallioni (talk) 03:02, 27 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Nicaise Zimbori-Auzingoni

Nicaise Zimbori-Auzingoni (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:GNG. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 01:50, 6 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep I'd say keep for a player who has won Elite One four times, and the Congolese Ligue 1 three times.[73], I see he has played in some high profile African Champions League games, [74], [75]. Google doesn't really cut the mustard know and with 25 international caps for CAR I am sure there will be better sourcing for him from the actual countries new services etc. Google doesn't cut the mustard here. I can understand the nomination but I feel it's a floored nomination. Regards. Govvy (talk) 09:28, 6 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. GiantSnowman 20:11, 6 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep - Per Govvy. I also found sources like 5 among more sources. Article needs improvement, not deletion. Thanks, Das osmnezz (talk) 23:13, 6 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep passes GNG with refs found.--Ortizesp (talk) 19:35, 8 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - Apparently his surname is also reported as Ozingoni, but I'm struggling to find any coverage other than trivial mentions in match reports (the only coverage at acap.cf is this match report). I also found the Voix de Centrafrique article mentioned above, and it is pretty useful but I'm not certain it is a reliable source. I'll try some Cameroonian sources before making a !vote. Jogurney (talk) 15:34, 9 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 03:12, 13 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete - I've checked online sources from Cameroon, the Central African Republic and the Congo, and there is no significant coverage available at all. Even more general French-language searches turn up only routine/trivial coverage. It seems like this footballer had a career that might have garnered attention in those places, but it did not in an online sense. I have no access to print sources, so I would be guessing whether those exist. While the Voix de Centrafrique source is decent, I cannot determine if it is a reliable source, and it is not enough by itself to satisfy the GNG. Jogurney (talk) 18:14, 13 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: This appears to be be moving to no consensus, but another week of discussion might help.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Shawn Teller (talk) 04:37, 20 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete, per Jogurney. The Voix source is a WordPress blog and thus unreliable, especially for a BLP. JoelleJay (talk) 18:10, 20 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - unfortunately, the Wordpress article is insufficient in depth for GNG, noting also that the guideline requires multiple sources not just one. Secondly, Wordpress sites are indeed unreliable as there is no evidence of any professional journalism/fact checking. Spiderone(Talk to Spider) 19:26, 20 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. "He's the first to..." is a presumption of notability and would preclude WP:SD#A7. However, once we're at AfD, notability must be shown,not just presumed. Therefore, the "delete" !votes have the stronger policy-based arguments. Randykitty (talk) 14:42, 25 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Rawlston Masaniai

Rawlston Masaniai (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:GNG. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 05:17, 4 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - "one of the first players from American Samoa to play at international level" seems like notability to me. Unfortunately, media in American Samoa is particularly poor, which makes it hard to get references. I'd also like to draw people's attention to the comment from the closer on Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Okilani Tinilau (2nd nomination): "As a project, we must have some sensitivity to the fact that there will be subjects from minority groups in smaller countries for whom sources in English will be sparse or less accessible than for subjects in large English-speaking countries." This seems to be exactly such a case where we need to be careful about deletion.--IdiotSavant (talk) 09:46, 4 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Spiderone(Talk to Spider) 10:25, 4 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. GiantSnowman 11:19, 4 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep - Per IdiotSavant. He is also the only American Samoan to play in Europe. Thanks, Das osmnezz (talk) 21:04, 4 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I'd be more inclined to give this a pass if he had more than zero goals in six appearances at the international level... I'd imagine there would be some discussion of him in European media, but his career is nothing special (in my analysis anyway). PSA Elite is an amateur club and a third-level team in Germany aren't GNG-worthy. Had he not been from American Samoa, he'd be deleted. Unless we can come up with a story or two in the media about him in Europe, it's a Delete for me. I'd be wiling to give it a weak keep if he had a somewhat better career; he's basically a fellow from overseas playing low-level soccer and doesn't seem to be anything special. Oaktree b (talk) 22:00, 4 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    I'm comparing this to the Irene Dubois AfD; they've at least had several interviews that help establish visibility, so a member of the public would find something useful in a Wiki article. This soccer player's article is basically a list of where he's played and stats; nothing for any sort of critical commentary about him or anything to paint a picture of him. It appears he tried to make it on the world soccer stage and never quite went anywhere. Oaktree b (talk) 22:10, 4 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep passes GNG with references on page.--Ortizesp (talk) 07:19, 6 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. The first 5 citations on the page are to non-independent sporting bodies Red XN, the 6th is pure stats Red XN, I get an error message from the 7th, the 8th is a passing mention in a squad list Red XN, the 9th and 10th are stats Red XN, the last is again non-independent Red XN. Nothing remotely close to justify keeping, especially considering the absolute requirement sports bios contain a citation to GNG coverage to even benefit from achievement-based presumptions of further SIGCOV. Without that, the fact that he played at an international level is automatically rejected as an invalid argument. And the implications of racist bias are just slimy. JoelleJay (talk) 07:00, 7 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 06:06, 11 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment: Added one GNG-passing source from the Los Angeles Times. JTtheOG (talk) 23:21, 13 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    You mean the two-sentence blurb accompanying his name and all the other names of the high school county first and second team members?! No that absolutely does not contribute to GNG, what on earth! That a) is not even close to SIGCOV; b) fails NSPORT decidedly; c) is a routine announcement most certainly contributed by coaches (do you really think newspaper journalists personally researched all 44 high schoolers to independently determine why they were selected?). JoelleJay (talk) 00:12, 14 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I believe he's referring to this one. BeanieFan11 (talk) 00:26, 14 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Ah that is less preposterous, but still entirely fails independence as well as NSPORT. JoelleJay (talk) 00:33, 14 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Its written by an LA Times staff writer – how is it non-independent? BeanieFan11 (talk) 00:35, 14 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
You know full well that pieces consisting almost wholly of primary quotes from the subject/affiliates cannot count toward GNG. This is even more the case for high schoolers. JoelleJay (talk) 19:53, 14 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Yikes. I'd say the second source is a little better than "less preposterous" than said two-sentence blurb in source #1. Also, it would be interesting to hear how you think a piece from an LA Times staff writer is not independent. I am well aware we would probably need at least two GNG-passing sources; I was simply pointing out the addition of a good one. JTtheOG (talk) 00:46, 14 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It's not independent or secondary because it's almost entirely quotes/repeating what he or people close to him said. Additionally, it fails YOUNGATH. JoelleJay (talk) 19:50, 14 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Randykitty (talk) 12:17, 18 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete - Although the LA Times article is useful coverage, I agree with JoelleJay that it runs afoul of WP:YOUNGATH - there simply isn't "substantial and prolonged coverage" of his time in high school sports. Nothing else comes close to WP:SIGCOV. Jogurney (talk) 14:49, 21 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Shawn Teller (talk) 14:03, 25 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Consensus is sourcing is insufficient Star Mississippi 03:49, 4 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Nosheen Ehtesham

Nosheen Ehtesham (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:GNG. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 00:23, 27 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 00:32, 3 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 01:32, 10 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Final relist. This can't be a Snow Keep with some editors advocating Delete.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 03:18, 17 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep - The subject participated and has won multiple international contests. Insight 3 (talk) 04:07, 17 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - fails WP:NTENNIS. I acknowledge their importance in some circles but there's a reason the notability guidelines are like that, after all, this is Wikipedia, not Tennispedia Pear 2.0 (say hi!) 00:20, 18 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Failing/meeting NTENNIS at this point means absolutely nothing. What matters is if the topic passes GNG. BeanieFan11 (talk) 19:44, 19 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Update - Surprisingly, the article doesn't tell that, but the subject has also received Tamgha-i-Imtiaz (Medal of Excellance) in 2003:Daily Times, Dawn Its a state award and definitely makes recipients notable per WP:ANYBIO. Insight 3 (talk) 11:25, 20 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Final relist. I'd rather not close this as No consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 06:01, 24 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry for the 4th relisting. It was an oversight on my part. But because of the nature of the AFD daily logs, I don't believe a relisting can be undone. Liz Read! Talk! 20:48, 24 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete The best sources are [79] and [80], which are trivial, and the rest are databases, listings, dead links, or irrelevant. The mentioned award is not "a well-known and significant award", so doesn't qualify for ANYBIO. The subject fails GNG and NTENNIS and does not have enough coverage for an article at this time. Avilich (talk) 20:03, 1 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Not a "well-known" award but still has a Wiki page? Not a "significant" award but still president of the state confers and decorates it? Insight 3 (talk) 04:17, 2 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • How important is the award that Ehtesham won? Is it one of the highest honors in the country? BeanieFan11 (talk) 20:17, 1 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    It is one of the four orders of excellence in Pakistan. Insight 3 (talk) 04:11, 2 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It's apparently in the lowest tier of such awards, and the list of recipients in that page suggests not all of them are noteworthy. Also ANYBIO explicitly states that meeting one of its criteria "does not guarantee that a subject should be included", which is confirmed by the GNG and NTENNIS failure. Avilich (talk) 06:47, 2 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete: My main concern is this is a BLP and I think the sourcing is not there. I don't think it clears the independent RS with SIGCOV addressing the subject directly and indepth test. BLPs need to be completely based on clearly independent unbaised RS about the subject. I don't believe this passes GNG, NTENNIS, or NBASIC.  // Timothy :: talk  06:40, 2 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep or redirect to Tennis in Pakistan. These kind of players are usually notable but due to media bias it is hard to find coverage. Pakistani media was mostly offline when she played tennis and as there is no digitalized archive of Pakistani newspaper so the best coverage we have is already mentioned above. 175.107.237.193 (talk) 15:34, 3 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Unsubstantiated claims about media "bias" and "offline sources" don't change the fact that no SIGCOV is available, and SIGCOV is required per WP:SPORTBASIC. Avilich (talk) 21:24, 3 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
This is not just an excuse, but a considerable fact that Pakistani English and Urdu newspapers from the 1990s and earlier, have not been digitized. This is why we have "additional criteria" for such biographies. A player who participated in the international contests and received a state award must have had more press coverage than that we now find on internet. Insight 3 (talk) 03:58, 4 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
source: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Deletion_sorting/Sportspeople&oldid=1141570062

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