January 10

I'm trying to work out pretty much anything about the Kelly-Springfield Motor Truck Co., including whether it was just a rebranding of someone else's trucks. A note in Mack AC alludes to there being a Kelly-Springfield truck company (so pinging User:Cavalryman in case he has a clue). There was definitely a Kelly-Springfield Tire Company. We have three photos on Commons that say they are Kelly-Springfield trucks (gallery above; they look suspiciously like Mack ACs). There is a landmarked Kelly-Springfield Motor Truck Co. Building in Seattle (1525 11th Avenue), which appears to have been a retail and service outlet. This came up because of the photos, I'm trying to categorize a big batch on Commons from Seattle's Museum of History and Industry. Maybe my Google-fu is weak, but I haven't been able to come up with much else. - Jmabel | Talk 00:49, 10 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I found This bit in the Springfield News-Sun, which covers an exhibit about the company at [The Heritage Center], a local history museum in Springfield, Ohio. You may be able to contact the Heritage Center directly for more information. --Jayron32 01:07, 10 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

(ec) According to this 1920 Lansing State Journal article, Hare's Motors took over Kelly-Springfield because it had a factory in Springfield, Ohio, turning out trucks: "The Kelly-Springfield plant today is one of the most completely equipped and best organized in the country, and the Kelly-Springfield truck is built - not assembled - under ideal manufacturing conditions." Also, "Everyone recognizes the excellence of both Riker and Kelly-Springfield trucks. Each is the successful development of the ideas of a capable engineering staff ..." So it doesn't sound like they were Macks, Mac. Clarityfiend (talk) 01:16, 10 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

In March 1914, it landed an order for 105 trucks ("believed to be the largest single order ever placed for motor trucks").[1] Clarityfiend (talk) 01:23, 10 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

A distributor claimed Kelly-Springfield fulfilled an order for 5900 trucks for the US post office in September 1918 and expanded its plant capacity 600% (over August 1914) for the war effort.[2] Clarityfiend (talk) 01:29, 10 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• @Clarityfiend: Thanks! That certainly clinches that they really manufactured trucks. I wonder what was the corporate relation to Kelly-Springfield Tire Company. Our article on the latter makes no mention of a truck company, most likely it should if we can work out the relation. - Jmabel | Talk 02:26, 10 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The Springfield News-Sun article The Heritage Center: the Kelly-Springfield Motor Truck Company provides some more info. Among other things, it says Edwin S. Kelly organized the truck company in 1910. An Edwin S. Kelly established the tire company in 1894.[3] According to the findagrave entry for Edwin Stewart Kelly[4], he founded the tire company and the "Kelly Motor Truck Co." Clarityfiend (talk) 07:34, 10 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hello Jmabel, I am sorry I cannot tell you much, in an entry about the Mack AC the source lists the Kelly-Springfield as another manufacturer of radiator behind engine trucks [5]. Elsewhere it does include an illustration without commentary of a Kelly-Springfield K-50 model [6] which is very Mack AC in appearance (no doubt because of the radiator behind engine design). I suspect those photos above are of Kelly-Springfield trucks, the Mack AC has the original Mack symbol (pre-bulldog) on their grill, as shown on the right. Good luck with your search. Kind regards, Cavalryman (talk) 09:06, 10 January 2022 (UTC).[reply]

A lot of archeologists say it never happened and say if it did happen, then it was around 1200bc. But then they say if it happened, the stories in the boook of joshua must be false, for ex. Jericho never fell around that time. But according to wikipedia, Jericho did fall around 1573bc, which could fit an exodus from egypt about 1600. Also, isn't King David said to have lived hundreds of years later than Joshua? Because Wikipedia also says that approximately 240 years after Jericho fell, that Abdi-Heba, a chieftain of Jerusalem in about 1330bc, was telling the Pharoah he was being attacked, at least in part by "Apiru. That could fit with King David conquering Jerusalem around then.Rich (talk) 14:04, 10 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• See The Exodus#Origins and historicity. It will give you a start for your research in this realm, there's a wealth of sources to follow on from there. There are a wide variety of possible historical settings for the exodus, and you're likely to find some level of support for just about any century within the second millenium BCE has having some support, especially in the sense that where evidence is sparse, possibilities become legion. --Jayron32 14:11, 10 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Josephus identified the Exodus with the end of Hyksos rule in Egypt, but he was just guessing. There's not much external evidence for Israelites (as opposed to generalized nomads and "Asiatics", as a disparaging Egyptian term is commonly translated into English) until the Merneptah Stele and the rise of the Four room house (both occurring centuries after 1600 B.C.). AnonMoos (talk) 17:28, 10 January 2022 (UTC)m[reply]

The earliest "early Exodus" chronologies are still later than 1600 BCE. That's still during rule of Lower Egypt by the Hyksos, who were of Canaanite origin and distinct from the native Egyptians. Many have found it appealing to associate the Exodus with the expulsion of the Hyksos a little later, but not with a Hyksos ruler as the Pharoah of Exodus. Joshua involves a lot more than Jericho -- does the 1573 BCE date work for all sites? (My understanding is no). I'm pretty certain that locating David in the 14th century won't work at all: no Philistines yet, no match with timeline of the later monarchy, etc. --Amble (talk) 00:44, 11 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Good point. The Philistines didn't come into the southern coastal plain of Canaan until the migrations of the Sea Peoples during the "Late Bronze Age collapse". The United Monarchy of David and Solomon probably would not have been able to come into existence without the diminishing of the Egyptian sphere of influence at that time. AnonMoos (talk) 01:17, 11 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Why not? Temerarius (talk) 06:02, 11 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

If the situation in the 10th-century B.C. had been like that in the Amarna letters, with Egypt often interfering in Canaan, and local leaders appealing to the Egyptians to settle their disputes, then it's hard to see how an independent power, not concerned with being either pro-Egyptian or anti-Egyptian, could have arisen to control large territories for any length of time. AnonMoos (talk) 18:12, 11 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

That's if there ever was a United Monarchy of David and Solomon. Some archaologists (yeah, yeah: "Who?") argue that at the time of David, whose existence is indirectly implied (once) in a datable record from a neighboring state, the population he can have controlled numbered (from archeological evidence) only a couple of thousand; that the Kingdoms of Israel and Judah arose and remained separate until much later; and that the biblical accounts of a relatively rich and powerful single kingdom were post-Babylonian exile propaganda of the 5th-century BCE created to strengthen support of the later, shakily emerging united nation of that time.

Others, of course, disagree. Inevitably, many scholars in the field have conscious or unconscious biases due to religious and cultural backgrounds (or reactions against them), which likely effect their interpretations of the all-too-sparse evidence, and indeed what they do or do not recognise as valid evidence. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.208.90.210 (talk) 18:50, 11 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Part of the reason why the United Monarchy isn't well documented in inscriptions and such is because of the very same "Late Bronze Age collapse" which made its existence possible. The population of Jerusalem might have been a few thousand during the United Monarchy period (the "City of David" had a rather small area), but the population of the whole kingdom was much greater... AnonMoos (talk) 19:26, 11 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This gets back closer to the OP's question. The existence (or not) of the United Monarchy is related to the level of population, centralization, and building at the time, which depends on the chronology. But those are questions of a few decades as in Israel Finkelstein's "low chronology". Putting David in the Amarna period would be an adjustment of > 300 years. It would completely remove David from his context, like having Napoleon fight the English at Agincourt instead of Waterloo. For the Exodus, which the OP primarily asked about, there is less to tie it to a definite context and proposed dates do vary by centuries. --Amble (talk) 20:15, 11 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

You're saying that the truth is hard to find because the field is muddled due to the biases of academics against the truth of the Bible. I disagree. Let's not throw our hands up because "people disagree." The scholarly opinion (if not consensus, then nearly) is that there was not a united monarchy as portrayed in the Bible. Temerarius (talk) 05:33, 14 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This seems to me kind of like a request for "opinions, predictions, or debate", which is a no-no on the Ref Desk. Many many things could possibly theoretically have happened at some point, like a teapot entering orbit near Jupiter. The burden of proof is on the party making the claim. The events of the Exodus narrative have zero evidence for them outside of the Exodus narrative itself, which is a good reason to be extremely skeptical about the narrative's historicity. You seem to be saying, let's assume they happened, and then work backward to find a good historical period to assign them to, which is not how sound historians operate. I can give you a near limitless list of things that might have happened, like the gazillions of years of Jain cosmology. --47.155.96.47 (talk) 01:08, 12 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Exactly what is recounted in the Book of Exodus most certainly did not happen as an event in history -- but on the other hand, there's plenty of evidence that Semitic-language speakers sometimes intruded into Egypt, and even a surviving account of Egyptian authorities pursuing nomads/"Asiatics" fleeing from Egypt (though not likely connected with Israelites). What is written down in the book of Exodus is a version of an originally oral national legend/narrative about the formation of Israelites as a people, which takes place in a detailed geographical context of places which actually existed. It's not stupid to try to find out what historical reality (in terms of what is known about Egypt) may have been behind this narrative -- and I really don't see what this has to do with "Russell's Teapot" (which is about theology, not history or geography). AnonMoos (talk) 07:49, 12 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I think i've read that Abraham met a Philistine king. Whether or not Abraham even existed, it could mean there were Philistines much earlier than late Bronze Age, or people that were "retro-named Philistines in later writing, so I don't see why people living later than Abraham, like in 1600bc or 1330bc, could also been retro-named Philistines, if they lived in the same regions that Philistines later lived. Rich (talk) 12:14, 12 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

According to [7], page 470: "In the space of a few months in 1927, Isfara and Sokh were originally allocated to the Uzbek SSR, then ceded to the Kyrgyz SSR, and finally returned to do the Uzbek SSR"

Does anyone know where I can find more information on this? Specific dates, laws, borders? Was it the Sokh district as it currently exists hopping around, and likewise was it the whole Isfara District? --Golbez (talk) 22:56, 10 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I can't cite any source right now, but I remember reading that the Soviets divided the Ferghana Valley with a complicated jigsaw of SSR borders so that no one ethnic group could have a consolidated power base there... AnonMoos (talk) 01:22, 11 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I'm working on a version of Territorial evolution of the United States but for the USSR, so the specifics of dates and borders is what I'm after. --Golbez (talk) 02:55, 11 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Megoran, Nick (2010). "The Uzbekistan-Kyrgyzstan Boundary". Borderlines and Borderlands: political oddities at the edge of the nation-state. p. 40.
• Koichiev, Arslan (2003). "Ethno-Territorial Claims in the Ferghana Valley During the Process of National Delimitation, 1924-7". In Everett-Heath, Tom (ed.). Central Asia: aspects of transition. p. 55. -- 16:04, 11 January 2022 Fiveby
  • @Fiveby: thank you so much! --Golbez (talk) 04:03, 12 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

January 11

Goal: Find a complete database/list of every battle on Wikipedia @WP:MILHIST coordinators:

I know there is a number of lists concerning this topic but all of them are incomplete. There is also this list: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Infobox_military_conflict&limit=500&hideimages=1 The List above has around 19000 entries but its quite messy.

I am currently checking around the military projects for complete lists but to no avail.

Any ideas on where I should look or if there is indeed a complete list of every battle inputted on Wikipedia thus far?

Thanks. -- Preceding unsigned comment added by UnlimitedRed (talk o contribs) 01:00, 11 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Not sure how "complete" it is, but there's List of battles (alphabetical). 2603:6081:1C00:1187:4579:F6C6:973A:C1AF (talk) 01:07, 11 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Yea That page has around 6200 entries. As well the other lists that are related to that one also have different numbers. I wonder if anyone has a database seperate from the lists here for general organization purposes? -- 01:17, 11 January 2022 UnlimitedRed

This search turns up all Wikipedia articles with a title beginning with "Battle" (though the first part of the listing is mostly not very helpful -- maybe you could search for articles whose title begins with "Battle of"...) AnonMoos (talk) 01:29, 11 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

That won't get you just traditional military battles. Battle of Broken Hill is about what some describe as Australia's first act of religious terrorism. It involved an ice cream cart. HiLo48 (talk) 03:29, 11 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Also a substantial number of battle articles have titles that begin with "Siege of..." or "Operation...". Alansplodge (talk) 19:21, 11 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Categories are the way to go with such voluminous groupings. Start at Category:Battles --Dweller (talk) Old fashioned is the new thing! 14:03, 12 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I was thinking the same thing, but I don't think that works here. You can delve into the sub-categories, but unless you're very very careful, you're going to get tons of duplications. For example, one of the main subcats is by country, so naturally every battle between two nations will be in there twice. You'd have to copy the contents of each cat into a separate document to remove the duplicates (and not just jot down the number, say) Matt Deres (talk) 21:20, 12 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I assumed the OP wanted to browse, rather than compile a list for its own ends. Your point is a good one. There will probably be other reasons for duplications, too. --Dweller (talk) Old fashioned is the new thing! 10:20, 14 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Every battle on Wikipedia? Does anyone keep track of edit wars? —Tamfang (talk) 04:35, 14 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Is there American show equivalent to the fantastic CBBC Newsround program for school kids? If not is there a Canadian version? I show Newsround in my class but obviously it is directed at a British audience so many of the references aren't relevant. I have a reference question (talk) 14:36, 11 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

There's an NBC Nightly News Kids edition: "new episodes premiere every Thursday on NBC News’ YouTube channel. Beginning on March 6, 2020, NBC Nightly News Kids Edition started airing Saturdays on select NBC affiliates." There's also a website for CBC Kid News. Clarityfiend (talk) 17:11, 11 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I got a promotional email from OVHcloud mentioning an article[8] titled "OVHcloud: Putting the Final Pieces in Place for Europe's Digital Fortress?".

Does that title have, er, unfortunate connotations? Or am I mis-reacting. Thanks. 2602:24A:DE47:B8E0:1B43:29FD:A863:33CA (talk) 23:49, 11 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

You tell me... File:Demonstration against Morten Kjærum in Vienna.jpg -- asilvering (talk) 23:56, 11 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

By the way, the word "digitalis", insofar as it occurred in Latin (it's not listed in my Classical dictionary) meant "of the fingers, having to do with the fingers"... AnonMoos (talk) 07:32, 12 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Of course, any gardener will immediately think of a certain kind of highly poisonous plant, also not a great association... -- asilvering (talk) 09:15, 12 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

To me it does (Fortress Europe). I also flinch when people propose "the final solution" of some question, and I'm not alone in this.^[9]  --Lambiam 11:17, 12 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I would think that depends on your point of view. It does not to me, but IT is not my forte. To me it speaks more of realism. Like putting in bullettproof glass in the windows of your house when you know there's more and more people out there with guns. Insofar, yes, you might say that's not a connotation that feels good. And that's only referring to digital. Other than that, for instance the picture linked above, seriously negative connotation. Regards from Europe, --G-41614 (talk) 11:51, 13 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

January 12

In the comments to a friend's post about the death of their cat, someone commented

Mau Bast! Mau Bast! A Basti, per em setat, erta-na chu em asui neter sentra semu hena net'emmit, hetep ab em asui tau heqt.

which they translated as

Hail Bast! Hail Bast! Hail Bast, coming forth from the secret place, may there be given to me splendor in the place of incense, herbs, and love-joys, peace of heart in the place of bread and beer.

Is this a genuine hymn to Bastet? When I search, all I find is new religious movements talking about cannabis. Marnanel (talk) 15:19, 12 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

A search of Google Books brings up a result (but no preview) in a 1990 edition of The Maxims of Ptahhotep. Alansplodge (talk) 16:53, 12 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

However, a quick scan through the full text draws a blank. Alansplodge (talk) 17:05, 12 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Looks like a combination of two phrases from the Papyrus of Ani translated by E. A. Wallis Budge, "Hail, Bast, coming forth from the secret place"(Plate XXXI) and "May there be given to me splendour in the place of water and air and love joys, peace of heart in the place of bread and beer."(Plate XXIX). fiveby(zero) 19:29, 12 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This is about those social media video presenters who get paid to plug products and services. While my favourite presenters are always clear about who is paying and what they are advertising, they are still basically just blending in an advertising spiel in a pretty unsophisticated way. How do the sponsors evaluate whether the presenter has done a good enough job? Are there any metrics, like length of the speech? Do the scripts have to be approved? Or does it just come down to the sponsor deciding they are somehow satisfied? Or is payment related to linked sales, which would provide the incentive to the presenter? Hayttom (talk) 17:10, 12 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

It is usually hashed out in contract negotiations by Solicitors. The shorter the advert the less viewers will switch off, versus the longer the advert the more money paid to the channel (a youtube channel is often a team of people). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.151.74.56 (talk) 11:32, 13 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I see, thank you! Hayttom (talk) 15:44, 13 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved

January 13

Greetings,

I got translated one article from Arabic ar:أمينة داود المفتي to English Draft:Amina Dawood Al-Mufti

a) Arabic Wikipedia contains a reference to ar:عملية الموساد في طرابلس is there a corresponding article in English Wikipedia to this one.

b) Whether any Hebrew language sources available for Draft:Amina Dawood Al-Mufti

c) I need help in importing references from Arabic Wikipedia article ar:أمينة داود المفتي to English Draft:Amina Dawood Al-Mufti

d) Confirmations to her fathers name / father's profession or career background/ (updated request)

Thanks and regards

Bookku, 'Encyclopedias = expanding information & knowledge' (talk) 10:38, 13 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

She's mentioned on the Hebrew Wikipedia article devoted to Sa'id Mufti, but I can't tell what the connection is at a casual glance. You might move her Circassian origins to the lead section... AnonMoos (talk) 22:17, 13 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Arabic Wikipedia article mentions abort her father as "..Her father was a wealthy jeweler, and her uncle held the rank of major general in the royal court." Hebrew Wikipedia article seems to claim her to be daughter of Sa'id Mufti ex the Prime Minister of Jordan.

Whether both claims are correct? one of them is correct or both are doubtful?

Bookku, 'Encyclopedias = expanding information & knowledge' (talk) 00:08, 14 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Some info here... AnonMoos (talk) 20:48, 15 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Moin. Said person was the daughter of John George Nicolay, in turn secretary and biographer of Abraham Lincoln. Helen Nicolay was, among other vocations, a painter. Works by her were, besides other venues, hung in the Smithsonian at some point. Or so I have read in a single sentence in some text I managed not to save, as it seems. As far as I can recall, it merely mentioned that a painting of hers, or maybe more than that, at one time or other was on display at said institution. I would appreciate any hint as to the circumstances, like if there's some online source regarding paintings that have ever hung there, or anything like that I might use for a reference in that matter. Regards, --G-41614 (talk) 11:30, 13 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The Smithsonian's collections database is searchable: 554 results for paintings by Nicolay, but it looks like most are false positives for people named Nicolai instead. You can also play with the filters in the sidebar (desktop view) and try searching drawings instead of paintings, etc. 70.67.193.176 (talk) 18:16, 13 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Aha, found at least one, though I didn't go through every page of search results so if you do you might find more. It's a portrait in oils of her father, view database entry. 70.67.193.176 (talk) 19:25, 13 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

That is the National Portrait Gallery's Catalog of American Portraits, pointing to one of two portraits held by The Lincoln Financial Foundation Collection. Good job working on an article here G-41614 (Helen Nicolay,de:Helen Nicolay)fiveby(zero) 19:37, 13 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Oh dear, this is awkward. First, allow me to thank both of you for your replies. This does help insofar as I now know the portrait of her father was the painting in question. Unfortunately, I am not currently working on a piece on Helen Nicolay for the en:wp - I am so egotistical as to use en:wp as help page for de:wp, especially regarding to matters related to the US. On the other hand, I just might, at some point in the future, go and translate my own work. Thanks again! Regards, --G-41614 (talk) 19:46, 13 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

After playing around a bit, the Smithsonian lists two paintings by Helen Nicolay, a watercolour and an oil painting, both landscapes. Besides the portrait in the Lincoln-Collection. Ok, now I really got to think about that translation ... and I got about a half a dozen things at de:wp I've been wanting to do for about a year or so. Hmmm ... Thanks again, --G-41614 (talk) 13:49, 14 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

So happy you found what you needed! 70.67.193.176 (talk) 16:39, 14 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

January 14

Does anyone have access to David Richardson, The Bristol Slave Traders: A Collective Portrait (1985)? That's the source for the number of 500,000 enslaved Africans traded by Bristol merchants during the Transatlantic slave trade, but there's no page number. This BBC article also cites that book and that number, but unfortunately also without a page number--one gets the feeling that the Richardson citation was pulled from the BBC article. I really need a more precise citation. Or does anyone have another source for such a number, preferably accessible via Google Books? Thank you so much, Drmies (talk) 15:58, 14 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

if it is this one i am going to have to comment on your google search skill. I hazily remember something of this sort an issue on the Edward Colston article, possible the 500,000 number came from a query using a database of slave voyages? fiveby(zero) 16:09, 14 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Nope, i was wrong thinking it was connected to SlaveVoyages

Information obtained from shipping records, customs accounts and newspapers reveals that some 2,108 slaving ventures were fitted out in Bristol between 1698 and 1807, an average of just over 20 ventures per year. As the mean loading of vessels on the coast appears to have been in excess of 250 slaves during the eighteenth century, Bristol traders were responsible therefore for carrying probably over half a million blacks from the African coast during the era of 'open trade' from 1698 to 1807.

p. 1 last para. fiveby(zero) 16:49, 14 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks--I see it, in the pamphlet. I appreciate it. Drmies (talk) 17:18, 14 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Is there actually already a knowledgebased study of places on the Internet where you can add tests anonymously?
Just like certain imeage boards, pastbins, various art projects such as theLibrary of Babel and so on? In a way, one could consider this a form of literature, just like papyrology. After all, these texts have certain things in common, such as worldwide readability, and so on. -- 2A02:908:426:D280:313C:C4D9:A3DF:9E2F

Do you mean "tests" or "texts"? --←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 23:28, 14 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. This kind of thing falls under Literature, Digital Humanities, and Media Studies. Sometimes all three at once. Depending on the work in question it could also fall under various subdisciplines based on its form, type, and/or content. -- asilvering (talk) 04:44, 15 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

January 15

When I see the price of something from a different year or country, I like to convert it to get a better idea of how much that price would mean to me. "¥4000? Oh, that's like $35. $40 in 1965? Oh, that's like $330 today." Simple enough when you're dealing with one of those two situations, but what about both? I'm looking at some prices listed in Japanese yen, published in 1972. How would I convert them to the equivalent of 2022's US dollars? Would I use a Japanese inflation table and today's exchange rate? Would I use 1972's exchange rate, then adjust for inflation? Both methods give me different results, both seeming outrageously high (though I guess that was simply the cost of translated, imported books in the early 70s).--The Ninth Bright Shiner 12:41, 15 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Both methods could give a somewhat valid result (within limitations), depending on what you want -- to adjust for Japanese inflation from 1972 to 2021, or to adjust for U.S. inflation from 1972 to 2021. (There's no reason why the two inflation numbers would be the same.) AnonMoos (talk) 17:39, 15 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I guess it depends a bit on what you're trying to understand from the price. If I wanted to compare the price from the perspective of US pricing, I would first convert to USA dollars using the 1972 exchange, then use US inflation rates. That would answer a question like "how expensive would it have been to buy this book in USD?" But I think what you're after is what the price would "feel like" to someone in Japan at the time? In which case I would say what you actually want to do is compare the price in JPY to another JPY benchmark that has inherent meaning, rather than messing about with inflation at all. For example: what was the average weekly/monthly/yearly worker salary in Japan, or a particular Japanese city, in 1972? Or the median income, or some other similar kind of measure. Rent can be another good one to compare, though the "expected middle-class standard" for what you expect to be able to rent is quite different in the USA and Japan. -- asilvering (talk) 23:11, 15 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I cannot say when or why one of the two approaches is better, but calculating both ways will give you a range, which may come out narrow enough for your purpose. A potential cause for discrepancies is the difference in the composition of the baskets of goods and services used by the countries' statistical bureaus to express the inflation as a single number. For example, rice is a much more important commodity in Japan than in the US, so it may account for a larger fraction of the Japanese basket. Consequently, then, rising rice prices have an accordingly stronger effect on the Japanese inflation number. Another cause may be differences in price policies. Gasoline prices are kept artificially low and steady in the US. That depresses the US inflation rate. Imposed trade tariffs and non-tariff barriers may also play a role.  --Lambiam 23:13, 15 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Asilvering is on target. Another option is to look at the share of household income that Item X represents, and use that to compare to either Japanese households today, or share of US household spending back in the day. The major issue is that there has been a huge shift in what people spend their money on, over time. DOR (HK) (talk) 01:41, 16 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I'm pretty sure that it was once the case that the president of the FIA receives no compensation. Was that true and is that true?

(If [still?] true I don't think it would be inspire charity. I think it would be to ensure that only rich establishment types are selected.) Hayttom (talk) 16:35, 15 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

January 16

It is awfully strange to me that in the cases of both evolution and calculus, two massive discoveries, they were both developed by two separate people independently of each other (that is, Darwin/Wallace & Newton/Lebniz). I have two questions on the matter:

1. Are there any other cases of this?
2. Does it say something about what happens when two individuals are at the top of their field that they're able to reach the same conclusions? Could there perhaps be a reason for such impressive discoveries happening simultaneously?

Best - Aza24 (talk) 09:07, 16 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

It doesn't seem strange to me. In fact it would be strange if that didn't happen. See Simultaneous discovery.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 09:12, 16 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

For examples, see List of multiple discoveries. Alansplodge (talk) 12:54, 16 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Aza24 -- in the case of calculus, there's evidence that Leibniz knew about some of Newton's unpublished work, though he developed it at length in his own more general way. Darwin and Wallace were very different kinds of scientists, and mostly not in direct competition with each other. If there's some similarity between the two cases, it's that Newton and Darwin were both very slow to publish -- Darwin because he was anxious about exposing his ideas to public scrutiny without assembling massively irrefutable evidence to support them, and Newton because he mostly didn't care very much about publishing his work... AnonMoos (talk) 14:41, 16 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe the underlying reason for these apparent coincidences is that both innovators are relying on the same advances in their particular field; perhaps standing on the same shoulders of the same giants. It's the antithesis of the great man theory: "You must admit that the genesis of a great man depends on the long series of complex influences which has produced the race in which he appears" (Herbert Spencer). Alansplodge (talk) 14:54, 16 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Charles Fort called it "steam engine time" 20px. It applies in many cases, but I'm not sure how much to these two. There was little strong evidence that natural selection was the driving force in evolution until the 20th century (see Modern synthesis (20th century)). In the second half of the 19th century, many people accepted evolution, but not Darwinian natural selection (see Lamarckism). Darwin and Wallace had a dispute over whether sexual selection was a significant factor in evolution... AnonMoos (talk) 15:09, 16 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Joseph Henry first, then Michael Faraday. Henry didn't publish his results.
Sleigh (talk) 02:27, 17 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

There are strange things done in the midnight sun, as the poet tells us. According to our article The Cremation of Sam McGee the steamer Alice May in the poem was based on the derelict Olive May. Do we have a picture of her? Thanks, DuncanHill (talk) 15:53, 16 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know how reliable it is, but the last photo on this page is captioned "The Steamer Olive May, Upper Yukon River". CodeTalker (talk) 20:16, 16 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

[10] has the same photo (it takes a few minutes to load, "Made on a Mac" in the footer, and Wayback failed to grab it) has a fn:

The photograph, which is YA # 4900 in the H. C. Barley fonds of the Yukon Archives, was taken by H. C. Barley in July 1900. It shows the Red Line Transportation Company horses grouped together by the freight wagons and the railway tracks. In the background are the tents of Camp ‘H’ and the corrals. The sternwheeler Olive May is docked near the shore at the left margin.

From the link there is The Olive May, sinking in the Thirty Mile River and roped to shore. Not sure if you can get free use out of that or not. fiveby(zero) 21:35, 16 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

YA# 4899YA# 4900

three more of sinking, i don't know why these Canadians can't put the Yukon Archives all at one site. fiveby(zero) 21:58, 16 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Downs, Art (1972). Paddlewheels on the Frontier. p. 152 (top).

I'm sure all colds started out as coronavirus. Do you think the current coronavirus will turn into a mere cold or do you think it will stay coronavirus?? If the answer depends on the variant, please include which variant will do which. Georgia guy (talk) 23:29, 16 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

"We don't answer requests for opinions, predictions or debate." --184.144.97.125 (talk) 03:20, 17 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Most colds are caused by rhinoviruses, which are a different order from coronaviruses (Picornavirales vs. Nidovirales). It's not likely that any coronavirus "turned into" a rhinovirus. CodeTalker (talk) 05:45, 17 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Colds are caused by a variety of viruses, which includes corona viruses. "Well over 200 virus strains are implicated in causing the common cold, with rhinoviruses, coronaviruses, adenoviruses and enteroviruses being the most common." It is entirely possible SARS CoV-2 will weaken into something that causes a common cold like disease, but too early to say. Fgf10 (talk) 08:07, 17 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

January 17

Was the usage of POWs for dangerous work after WWII one of the causes of the 1949 Geneva Convention? I know that the Germans were the main reason that it was created, but I was wondering if the allies' using German POWs to clear landmines was a factor in the creation of the convention. Thanks so much! 107.2.89.236 (talk) 03:37, 17 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The treatment of prisoners of war is dealt with in Geneva Convention III, which is a revision and extension of the Geneva Convention on Prisoners of War of 1929. The website of the International Committee of the Red Cross has a commentary that gives some of the reasons why this revision was necessary, and states: "The Convention establishes the principle that prisoners of war must be released and repatriated without delay after the cessation of active hostilities (Article 118)." It may be difficult to find an explicit statement tying post-war abuse of prisoners of war directly to the motivation for this extension.  --Lambiam 10:21, 17 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

James VI and I, as his name suggests, was both King James VI of Scotland, and King James I of England.

My question is, were some future king named James (such as James, Viscount Severn, the highest "James" in the line of succession to the British throne) to some day ascend to the throne of the now-United Kingdom (the successor state of both the Kingdom of England and the Kingdom of Scotland), what regnal number would he be given - " James II", or "James VII"?

Or, as I understand from previous discussions on UK matters here, is this something which the UK deals with as most constitutional questions of theirs - "we'll fix it if and when it breaks"? i.e. as long as the question remains hypothetical, no need for the monarchy of government to address it? Eliyohub (talk) 10:19, 17 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

It is my understanding that said King James will be James III of the United Kingdom (not James II because the king of that name was deposed in 1688). Bear in mind that the United Kingdom came into being in 1707 and we haven't had a king of either England or Scotland since then. ICBW, and frequently am... TammyMoet (talk) 18:54, 2 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]