Annika Connor

Annika Connor (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

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Apparently not notable by our standards, fails WP:ARTIST. Sourcing is very weak – interviews, blog-type sources etc; I removed some of the worst of them, but stopped when I realised that there's essentially nothing here. Someone on the HuffPost blog site named her as a "rising star". Wikipedia articles are reserved for those stars who have already risen, and thus have in-depth coverage in solid independent reliable sources. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 20:25, 28 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 20:55, 28 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Visual arts-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 20:55, 28 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Artists-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 20:55, 28 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sweden-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 20:55, 28 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 20:55, 28 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep - I have to say Keep on this one. Yes sources are not great but still sufficient to prove at least notability at the right side of the threshold for inclusion. Any other concern is covered by WP:NEXIST.BabbaQ (talk) 22:50, 28 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete there is absolutely nothing here to say that this painter is notable. All coverage is routine and very low quality. There are about four barely acceptable sources, and by that I mean that they just barely qualify as sources. The majority of the coverage is interview-style and promotional in nature. Fails all notability tests, and especially WP:ARTIST on all counts.104.163.148.25 (talk) 03:41, 1 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment: Megalibrarygirl and Cullen328 may want to look at this one. Softlavender (talk) 04:37, 1 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Canvassing much?--BabbaQ (talk) 08:42, 1 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• No, this is not canvassing; these are highly skilled, highly respected, and highly neutral administrators, who specialize in rescuing articles at AfD, particularly articles on women and artists. If I were canvassing I would have !voted myself, but I feel the case needs more research than I am willing to give it. Softlavender (talk) 09:10, 1 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• You have now canvassed three editors to this AfD. Give it a break. Please. --BabbaQ (talk) 09:08, 2 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep Meets WP:ARTIST with three verified solo shows (and possibly a fourth) in NYC galleries, plus numerous group shows, and a significant profile[1] focusing on the subject. Also and interview at Arte Fuse. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 04:47, 1 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

WP:ARTIST does not say one is notable once they have three solo shows. If it did, every sunday painter who showed in tiny Cafes or popup galleries would be notable. Also, the claim that a significant profile in "highbrowmagazine.com" helps is just plain weak. 104.163.148.25 (talk) 20:20, 1 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete Solo shows in notable art museums are evidence of notability, but solo shows in non-notable commercial galleries are not, since putting on such shows is their business. I do not consider Highbrow Magazine to be a reliable source for establishing notability of an artist, and this coverage looks like the product of a public relations campaign. Interviews do not establish notability because that coverage is not independent. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 06:16, 1 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

  Note:Cullen was pinged to come here.BabbaQ (talk) 08:57, 1 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

  I pinged Cullen because he is a highly skilled, highly respected, and highly neutral administrator, who specializes in rescuing articles at AfD, particularly articles on women and artists. If I were canvassing I would have !voted myself, but I did not and will not, because I feel the case needs more research than I am willing to give it. Softlavender (talk) 09:10, 1 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

There's nothing wrong with notifying someone of a discussion, especially an admin with significant experience.104.163.148.25 (talk) 20:34, 1 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Why even put yourself in a position of having to defend a discussion notification? By appearances it's indistinguishable from votestacking. Out of hundreds of thousands of editors, two individuals. Isn't it sufficient that this discussion was listed on multiple arts and women related alerts? It seems unlikely an insufficient number of art or women topic experts have been notified, or that these two select individuals don't monitor any of the alerts here. I don't believe you intended anything nefarious, but appearance of votestacking is unavoidable, and it's a bell you can't unring. It's almost never a good idea to notify editors by name, rather than noticeboard or broadcast notices. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 21:11, 1 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

To repeat: These are highly skilled, highly respected, and highly neutral administrators, who specialize in rescuing articles at AfD, particularly articles on women and artists. If I were canvassing I would have !voted myself, but I feel the case needs more research than I am willing to give it. Softlavender (talk) 01:40, 2 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

It's too bad you don't seem to be able to understand why the appearance of votestacking is a problem. If you can find more conventional ways of altering interested groups of discussions like this, I think you'll see see less drama and a smoother process. Pinging editors by name pointlessly and needlessly creates an atmosphere of suspicion. If you believe Wikipedia can't make sound consensus decisions without two specific experts, then how can you support the idea of such a project at all? The whole thing is built with the collective wisdom of hundreds of thousands of people, not two indispensable experts.

These repeated assertions without evidence, "I'm fair minded because I say so", "It's not canvassing because I say so", "This gallery is insignificant because I say so", "That magazine is insignificant because I say so." Any old editor is capable of making unsupported assertions, "because I say so". It's not convincing. And why should we even have to be having this spat? Use normal AfD alterts, post neutral notifications on interested noticeboards and not hand-picked users, and all this trouble is avoided. It makes no sense why you would insist on this. I hope you stop. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 08:02, 2 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

To repeat a fourth time: These are two highly skilled, highly respected, and highly neutral administrators, who specialize in rescuing articles at AfD, particularly articles on women and artists. If I were canvassing I would have !voted myself, but I felt the case needed more research than I was willing to give it. It's too bad you don't respond to Cullen, who answered your concerns. In terms of pointlessly and needlessly, I'll state a fifth time: These are two highly skilled, highly respected, and highly neutral administrators, who specialize in rescuing articles at AfD, particularly articles on women and artists. If I were canvassing I would have !voted myself, but I felt the case needed more research than I was willing to give it. In terms of "I'm fair minded because I say so" I never said any such thing; "It's not canvassing because I say so" I never said any such thing; "This gallery is insignificant because I say so"; "That magazine is insignificant because I say so." I've never said or implied any such thing and have never even mentioned galleries. Softlavender (talk) 08:58, 2 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Softlavender you have canvassed three editors so far to come here. Now I see that the third person was DGG which you left a personal note at about this article basically begging the editor to !vote Delete. This is starting to look really suspicious and votestacking. Messages like these are looking suspicious.BabbaQ (talk) 09:05, 2 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, BabbaQ, and Dennis Bratland, I was pinged but I had no idea whatsoever how I would respond until I took a sincere look at the article and the available sources. Do either of you have any evidence that I am somehow biased regarding this topic? If I truly thought that this artist was notable at this time, I would fight to keep the article by improving it and adding sources. I am personally aware of at least half a dozen women artists with longer and better established careers that I do not consider notable enough at this point. Consider me an inclusionist philosophically who also believes in enforcing our notability standards and opposing rampant promotionalism. I wish this artist the best and hope that she will be universally considered notable as her career progresses. But not yet. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 07:22, 2 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment: Article was written by Kelizabethw, an SPA, who also uploaded the professional photograph (claimed to be "own work") [2] and therefore appears to be the subject's publicist. The rest of the article [3] was written by Tweebunny, another SPA. Softlavender (talk) 09:22, 1 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep, but only just. There does appear to be promotional intent and the text needs a bit of work. Possibly a COI notice should also be placed. Deb (talk) 14:19, 1 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Weak Keep There's enough there to keep it under GNG. The Art News coverage and Whitehot article tips it for me. I wish, however, that there was more coverage of her. I hit the databases and didn't find anything to add from EBSCO, HighBeam or Newspapers.com. On Google Books, she is mentioned in a few books (one I can't access). I agree with Deb about placing a COI tag, especially with Softlavender's research about the editors on the article. Megalibrarygirl (talk) 18:37, 1 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment I have to say that the WIR brigade (which I support and contribute to at times) is being taken in if they think this is a notable artist. This is just an artist who has taken some marketing classes and knows how to get her name and profile into a few middling publications. In short, she is trying to make a living in a digital world. That marketing might involve work as a voice actress, selling art on Saatchionline along with a hundred thousand others, publishing a book on Amazon about her artist friends, doing an interview with Luxurious Prototype, the online men's luxury magazine or KDHamptons, the Luxury Lifestyle Diary of the Hamptons, or getting a semi-decent profile in Grand Piano Passion, a magazine devoted to poeple with a passion for grand pianos. I do hope that editors can see the difference between this kind of coverage and, say, inclusion in permanent collections, exhibitions in reputable galleries and museums, and of course independent reporting and interest by good news sources. Wikipedia certainly has a problem with the dearth of articles on women. However that is not going to be helped by promoting truly non-notable persons on the thinnest of rationales as is happening above.104.163.148.25 (talk) 20:20, 1 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Also, check out this offer on the Voice acting page. "Please note, Connor's paintings are also available for licensing if you are shopping for cover art for your books. Connor retains the copyrights to all her paintings and high res images of all of her works is available if a licensing deal is made. Please be in touch if you would like to discuss licensing any of Annika Connor's art for your book covers." This is not a notable artist, but rather a young artist trying to make a living. 104.163.148.25 (talk) 20:30, 1 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

1) "WIR brigade" is the kind of ad hominem that says a lot more about you, and your agenda, than it does about anyone else. 2) There are uncounted hundreds of thousands of articles about privileged topics -- whites, men, westerners, recent topics, easily-located online topics, English language topics, etc -- as discussed in Wikipedia:Systemic bias, and they have not been subjected to anywhere near sufficient scrutiny. The number of borderline-notable or non-notable male artist bio articles numbers in the thousands, if not tens of thousands. If a group trying to correct systemic bias, like WIR, happens to succeed in keeping a handful of borderline notable articles about women, it pales in comparison to the many thousands of articles that will never even be nominated for deletion, or will be scrutinized only after several years have passed, for the simple reason that there are so many of them. In short, why not focus on whether this topic is or is not notable, and leave all the other baggage for another noticeboard? --Dennis Bratland (talk) 21:23, 1 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• I know it's time to let this go, but attacking this woman for the crime of self-promotion is so trite. Nobody minds when men are ambitious and self-promoting, but when women do it, they're attacked. One study described it as ambitious men being seen as "being more assertive, stronger, and tougher" while ambitious women were targets of "moral outrage (i.e., contempt, anger, and/or disgust)". Do we scrutinize every bio about a person who wrote good things about themselves on Linkedin.com? We're now skeptical of every painter who tries to sell their paintings? It's laughable. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 21:58, 1 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Weak delete per Cullen328 and the COI issues. While I agree with Megalibrarygirl that there might be adequate notability, we don't have the source quality to quite get there yet. Let's just call it WP:TOOSOON for now. Also, agree with Dennis Bratland about the ad hominem remarks. The baggage can go elsewhere, this discussion stands on its own. Montanabw^(talk) 21:53, 1 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete. An presumably promotional article about a very minor artist. There isn;t even any indication she is more than an amateur trying to sell her work. The criterion for WP:CREATIVE is significant critical discussion independent sources, or (if pertinent) works in the permanent collection of major museums, or both. She works in a genre which museums would collect if she were notable. There are no critical stud--the Art News item is a trivial review of a show, and the others are either not independent, such as a show brochure--which is always written by the artist of the artist's publicist-- or not in any conceivable sense reliable in this subject.Interviews are not independent sources for notability. Conceivably she may ecome notable, but not now.

We need more coverage of women artists. There are thousands of notable ones that are not yet covered, and those are the ones to write.

I'm going to give a local plug here--if in the NYC area, come to the WM-NYC & A+F editathon at the Museum of Modern Art this Saturday and work on one. See the announcement: [4] (and the listing of other related events in the area this month at Wikipedia:Meetup/NYC/ArtAndFeminism 2018. DGG ( talk ) 06:01, 2 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Note - DGG was brought here after this message from Softlavender to DGGs talk page. Canvassing and votestacking.BabbaQ (talk) 08:59, 2 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

  BabbaQ, please learn the difference between WP:APPNOTE and WP:CANVASSING. DGG is an administrator who deals widely with AfDs and my message was neutral and mentioned only that the AfD was contentious. If the rhetoric by the IP and Dennis Brantland had not occurred, and the repeated accusations of canvassing made by you and Dennis had not occurred, I would not have felt to call on another administrator for additional clarity, but because of all that noise on this AfD, I felt that the administrator with the most experience with AfDs of any admin (and an ArbCom member to boot) would bring a careful eye to the matter. -- Softlavender (talk) 09:16, 2 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete. COI promotional article on a non-notable young artist with no significance at present and who fails WP:ARTIST by a long shot. To quote the second sentence of the Highbrow interview: "A staple on the New York social scene, Connor has spent years cultivating a reputation as a philanthropist, feminist, fashion icon and muse." This wiki article seems to be another attempt at cultivating an image -- as a significant artist. There is nothing about her art that is remarkable, and the very weak sourcing shows it. The fact that during the Trump era she has done some political-based works and thus cultivated some mentions does not change that. (PS: I said above I was unprepared to !vote in this AfD but the more I look into it, the more I agree with others: this is not a significant artist and we should not have self-promotional articles on non-notable artists.) Softlavender (talk) 07:00, 2 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]