This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning CMTBard

User who is submitting this request for enforcement

Guy Macon (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 17:24, 19 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested

CMTBard (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Pseudoscience :

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

On Jenny McCarthy (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) and Vaccines and autism (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs), SPA editor CMTBard (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) has been promoting an Antivax POV against consensus and misrepresenting sources to claim that they say the opposite of what the sources actually say.

1. 14:23, 8 August 2019 (UTC) On Jenny McCarthy, replaced "She [Jenny McCarthy] has promoted the disproven idea that vaccines cause autism" with "She [Jenny McCarthy] has promoted the idea that vaccines can contribute to autism in certain children" despite 100% strong consensus against this change on the talk page.
2. 14:44, 8 August 2019 (UTC) Again.
3. 14:56, 8 August 2019 (UTC) Again.
4. 15:20, 9 August 2019 (UTC) Again.
5. 15:30, 9 August 2019 (UTC) On Causes of autism, replaced "Scientific studies have refuted a causal relationship between vaccinations and autism." with "Scientific studies have remained unable to confirm or refute a causal relationship between vaccinations and autism"

This violates principle 1A: Neutral point of view as applied to science

Attempting to make Wikipedia say that scientific studies have remained unable to confirm or refute a causal relationship between vaccinations and autism is not a legitimate scientific disagreement. Scientific studies have refuted a causal relationship between vaccinations and autism. To say otherwise is to replace science with pseudoscience.

This also violates principle 14: Serious encyclopedias

No respected scientist agrees that vaccines cause or contribute toward autism. It is a discredited idea from a scientific fraud.

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3ACMTBard&type=revision&diff=910161027&oldid=910127205

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

Please read the talk pages for those two articles to see the behavior. Some quotes:

• "Vaccines are not settled and far from 'all' scientists agree on it." 14:13, 8 August 2019 (UTC)
• "There have been no deaths due to delaying or spacing any vaccines in the US" 14:28, 9 August 2019 (UTC)
• "Go read Wakefield’s paper. I bet you never have." 14:31, 8 August 2019 (UTC)

(That would be antivax fraud Andrew Wakefield).

• "You can't definitively state that 'there is no link between vaccines and autism'" 03:26, 12 August 2019 (UTC)
• "there are actual studies that have linked specific vaccines to autism causally" ... "Specific court cases in the US and abroad have awarded damages to children whose autism was found to be triggered by a vaccine" 23:03, 17 August 2019 (UTC)

(CMTBard keeps mischaracterizing sources that explicitly reject vaccines causing autism.)

In my considered opinion, CMTBard should be topic banned from any page related to Vaccines, Autism, or Jenny McCarthy.

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3ACMTBard&type=revision&diff=911559652&oldid=911559128

Discussion concerning CMTBard

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by CMTBard

...I'm a brand new editor who joined Wikipedia because there was a box that popped up on my screen that said something along the lines of "anyone can edit", and "every edit increases accuracy!" So, I said, ok! I see some inaccuracies, I can help! I spent hours looking up references, made some edits, tried to figure out how to properly cite things... next thing I know, my edits are deleted with nothing to show for my efforts. Frustrated, I redo them. Same thing. After a while I figure out that there are "talk" pages and try to figure out how to use them. In the meantime, people are dismissive of my concerns and don't even respond to my actual points on the talk pages. It takes me logging in on a computer rather than a phone to realize how to add citations to talk pages. All along, I'm trying my best to figure out how the actual system works. Nothing in my initial joining of Wikipedia said anything about edits having to be approved by another editor, nor did they suggest that putting back what was undone would lead to being banned or anything. I joined expecting a group of equals who backed their changes up with good sources and logic... that is not at all what I am finding. Frankly it's a bit bewildering and very disheartening. I'm not encountering open mindedness nor desires to be accurate nor fair-- its seems far more about maintaining the status quo and allowing only senior editors to keep their articles the way they want them to be. CMTBard (talk) 23:28, 20 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

...I submitted an entire section in the Talk section of the "Vaccines & Autism" page citing 21 peer-reviewed scholarly journal articles in addition to several other articles, all from medical journals, none from behind paywalls. My only goal is to show that the discussion is far more nuanced and less settled than the article implies. None of the articles were outdated. Nor can they be called disproven, when that is the entire question, and as for disruptive, yes, science is often disruptive to itself. Hand-washing in gynecology was a hugely unpopular and disruptive idea, its proponents died in disgrace. But that doesn't mean we shy away from presenting questions as questions rather than answers, when they are indeed ongoing questions. TylerDurden's response was a simple "No" within minutes of me posting this document...definitely not enough time to click through any of the citations or even see what they were. CMTBard (talk) 23:17, 20 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Just to summarize... my goals have been 1. to change the summary of Jenny McCarthy's position from "belief that vaccines cause autism" to "belief that vaccines can contribute to autism in some children" and to 2. change the word "disproven" to "disputed" when it comes to vaccines & autism. As I've been prompted, I've provided explanations and citations (from peer-reviewed medical journals)-- and I've gone to different pages as I was instructed to do. But really... sanctions are being discussed because I want to change 7 words in 2 separate articles- and I have tried to provide reasoning behind why I think it's important to change those words in order to be accurate and up to date. Let's just keep that in perspective. CMTBard (talk) 00:02, 21 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Guy Macon

At the request of Sandstein, I have added specific links to the arbcom findings and how CMTBard has violated them, but I do not agree that this is a content dispute. There is no dispute. Vaccines do not cause autism. There does not exist a single MEDRS-compliant source that says that they do. --Guy Macon (talk) 18:31, 19 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

At the request of El C, I have condensed the evidence. In my opinion, the pattern of behavior I have described can still be easily seen by reading Talk:Jenny McCarthy and Talk:Vaccines and autism but is not clear from the condensed evidence I have included. --Guy Macon (talk) 22:14, 19 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding Bilby's statement about not enough recent edits after the DS warning, fair enough. I would be happy to withdraw this request and wait for more attempts to promote antivax by CMTBard. I do not believe that CMTBard has stopped his pattern of behavior, and I am convinced that I will be back at AE in few weeks if I withdraw the case, but I could be wrong.

[I redacted my previous full disclosure of a previous conflict that may be causing me to have a bias (conscious or unconscious) at the request of Bilby.] --Guy Macon (talk) 22:14, 19 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Re: Sandstein's comment "The sole conduct allegation - misrepresenting sources - is not substantiated by a diff". it was supported by diffs, but then I was asked to trim the evidence. I can either document everything at length with multiple diffs and explanations attached to each diff or I can keep the evidence short and ask that those evaluating it simply look at CMTBard's editing history (which isn't all that long), but I cannot do both.

Here are some diffs showing the "misrepresenting sources" behavior: [2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12]

Let me focus on one source. CMTBard keeps cherry picking sentences from deep within Adverse Effects of Vaccines Evidence and Causality (2012)[13] and misrepresenting them as supporting his antivax position. But that same page contains links to the following clear statements:

• "CLAIM: Vaccines cause autism. FALSE. Many scientists have studied this question, but no credible studies show that autism is caused by vaccines." [14]

• "CLAIM: Vaccines are safe. TRUE. Vaccines are extremely safe. They have many health benefits and few side effects."[15]

No editor who actually wants to properly represent what this source says would ignore these clear statements. CMTBard is misrepresenting The National Academy of Sciences as supporting his antivax claims. --Guy Macon (talk) 01:17, 21 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Please note that this[16] is how CMTBard behaves when he is under scrutiny. --Guy Macon (talk) 01:36, 21 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

If the result is a topic ban from "All pages and edits related to both vaccines and autism, broadly construed", it should be made clear that this includes the Jenny McCarthy page and that it includes talk pages as well as articles. --Guy Macon (talk) 19:26, 21 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Bilby

User:CMTBard was given a discretionary sanctions notification on August 10 [17]. Since then, CMTBard has made no edits to mainspace, and has only discussed content concerns as part of ongoing discussions on their talk page and (briefly) on the two article talk pages. - Bilby (talk) 21:01, 19 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by TylerDurden8823

I am inclined to agree with Guy. CMT has shown exclusive interest in editing in this particular domain and unequivocally espouses and vigorously advocates for the inclusion of clearly pseudoscientific anti-vaccination information in the aforementioned articles. The dialogue on the affected talk pages does not demonstrate a willingness (on CMT's part) to really consider other (AKA reality-based) viewpoints and as Guy stated, CMT grossly mischaracterizes what reliable sources say. CMT has also tried to soften descriptions of Jenny McCarthy's stance on being anti-vaccination from multiple reliable sources on the basis that she does not view herself as "anti-vaccine" and personally rejects that label (even though it's absolutely applicable to her). S/he continues to mischaracterize the relationship between vaccines and autism as one that is actively disputed and not firmly rejected by the scientific consensus despite being strongly refuted by numerous well-sourced documents.

CMT has not provided any substantial evidence to overturn the established scientific consensus that there is no link, causal or otherwise, between vaccines and autism. Furthermore, s/he rejects very clear conclusions from noteworthy reports (e.g., the Institute of Medicine report) on vaccines and autism. S/he is simply espousing outdated, disproven ideas and it is disruptive and not in line with Wikipedia's policies. S/he doesn't seem to understand WP:MEDRS, WP:FRINGE, WP:WEIGHT, WP:NPOV, etc. It's clear they are very passionate about this topic, but his/her actions only seem to spread misinformation and nonsense rather than provide meaningful contributions to the encyclopedia. I would support a topic ban on articles pertaining to vaccines, anti-vaccine ideas, vaccines and autism, etc. TylerDurden8823 (talk) 21:04, 20 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

So...has anything happened? I see a lot of discussion amongst the admins below about a possible topic ban vs alternate courses of action but I don't see that anything has actually occurred. Has any admin taken ownership of this and taken action? Is there a consensus on what to do? TylerDurden8823 (talk) 04:12, 27 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by JzG

Normally I am inclined to apply WP:ROPE for newbies who are restricting their activities to Talk, but today CMTBard posted a wall of text supposedly showing that the area of vaccines as a cause of autism is still a live scientific inquiry, and this included lots of old studies still citing Wakefield, some synthesis, some antivax websites, and some antivax studies citing the likes of Mark and David Geier (the former struck off and disqualified as a vaccine witness and the latter never having had any qualifications art all as far as I know). This is a monstrous waste of everyone's time. Guy (Help!) 00:20, 21 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Kingofaces43

This is the type of situation the pseudoscience DS were exactly put in place for in order to swiftly deal with editors who have or obviously will waste a lot of the community's time in scientific subjects. Admins are on the right track with a topic ban here given the most recent discussion in terms of preventative action.

I understand the filing has changed a bit over time, but even in the initial filing, this should have never been initially labeled just a content dispute when Guy provided evidence CMTBard was promoting an antivax POV. A general problem I've seen at AE in science topics is reported behavior being dismissed with "just a content dispute" comments, and requests dragging on because of it unless later admins are quick to correct it. Most sanctionable behaviors, especially in pseudoscience topics, are related the content or views being pushed, and being at odds with consensus or science is a behavior problem in a subject like this. Just something for folks to be mindful of. Kingofaces43 (talk) 04:14, 21 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Dicklyon

CMTBard needs to understand that his goal "to show that the discussion is far more nuanced and less settled than the article implies" is not compatible with how WP:MEDRS works. In the Med field, WP:NPOV means western medical POV is the only one that should be represented in articles. A short block will bring home the point. Dicklyon (talk) 14:17, 21 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Levivich

"All pages and edits related to both vaccines and autism, broadly construed" – Levivich 17:07, 21 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Result concerning CMTBard

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

• @Guy Macon: Please make clear how this conduct violates any specific conduct policies or guidelines, rather than just being a content dispute. We don't resolve content disputes here. Sandstein 17:55, 19 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • As presented, this is a content dispute. A content dispute is any dispute about how articles should read, even if one party to the dispute is at odds with consensus or science. The sole conduct allegation - misrepresenting sources - is not substantiated by a diff. But I agree with Hut 8.5 below that persistent editing in violation of content policies is a conduct issue, and if other admins consider such conduct established then I don't oppose a sanction. Sandstein 07:10, 20 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • Disagree. Not a content dispute. One side cites reliable sources. The other side pushes unreliable sources or misrepresents reliable sources. Jehochman ^Talk 02:43, 21 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• @Guy Macon: please condense. El_C 18:38, 19 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• Thank you. Much better. El_C 21:56, 19 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• This behaviour does look to me like an attempt to POV-push the fringe theory that vaccinations are a cause of autism, which is the sort of thing that these discretionary sanctions can be used for. This edit is particularly telling, rewriting large parts of an article on the causes of autism to make it look like the question of whether vaccines cause autism is an open one - the exact opposite of what the sources say, and misrepresenting this source in particular. This isn't in itself a content issue, as persistent editing in violation of content policies is a conduct issue. Sure, CMTBard hasn't edited mainspace since the DS notification was given, but s/he has made plenty of edits related to the topic in other namespaces and they don't show any change in behaviour. I think some sort of sanction would be appropriate here. Hut 8.5 21:48, 19 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• I'm not sure we can impose a topic ban from vaccines in general given that the discretionary sanctions only apply to pseudoscience and vaccines aren't pseudoscience, but I'd be happy with something more targeted. Hut 8.5 06:56, 21 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • How does "articles related to the intersection of vaccines and autism, broadly construed" sound? --RexxS (talk) 12:07, 21 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • @RexxS: I'd prefer the standard "all pages and edits related to the intersection of vaccines and autism, broadly construed". "Articles" is too narrow. I'm a bit worried that "the intersection of" also feels somewhat prone to wikilawyering; maybe "the relationship between vaccines and autism"? GoldenRing (talk) 15:39, 21 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
      • @GoldenRing: Yeah, you're right that "all pages and edits" is the correct formulation. I didn't like "intersection of" either, but couldn't think of a better way of expressing the appropriate set of pages, given that there is no actual relationship between autism and vaccines. Maybe somebody else can think of a better wording? --RexxS (talk) 15:49, 21 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
        • @RexxS: Yes, I have the same problem with "relationship" but couldn't think of better. "related to vaccines and autism" is technically correct but would be too open to people interpreting it as "related to vaccines or autism" I guess. GoldenRing (talk) 16:37, 21 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
          • I'd be happy with "relationship", the suggestion by Levivich above ("All pages and edits related to both vaccines and autism, broadly construed") or something similar. Hut 8.5 18:00, 21 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• I think the appropriate sanction is to ban CMTBard from vaccine related pages, including articles and talk pages. Avoiding mainspace is not enough. Talk page disruption can frustrate the formation of consensus and the smooth operation of the encyclopedia. The activity is directed at damaging the accuracy of the encyclopedia. This is an important problem we face. Users of the encyclopedia could be severely harmed if they rely on false information appearing in our articles. If CMTBard demonstrates good quality editing in other areas, they are free to come back and request that the topic restriction (ban) be lifted at some point in the future. If they are only here to push a POV on vaccines, this sanction may end their involvement. Jehochman ^Talk 02:41, 21 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
• Based on the edits and the diffs (which do show persistent fringe-promotional edits), I would impose a six-month topic ban on vaccine-related edits. Neutrality^talk 04:16, 21 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
• To be clear: the conduct of CMTBard is beyond what should be tolerated in an area subject to discretionary sanctions. This is not a content dispute, because there is no dispute about the science. The reason for DS in the vaccine area is precisely to attenuate earlier POV-pushing of a fringe theory, long discredited. CMTBard is going to have to understand that it's not just article edits that are problematic, but also the volume of text on the talk page that regurgitates sources, familiar to regular editors, that do not meet our standards for MEDRS.
  I would support a topic ban, to give a chance to contribute productively elsewhere; my only reservation is whether the behaviour has continued after the DS alert. I would alternatively support an injunction that CMTBard become familiar with the requirements of discretionary sanctions, with the understanding that the next breach would result in far more severe action being taken. --RexxS (talk) 08:27, 21 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
• Largely per RexxS. I'd like to treat new editors gently and educate them rather than turn them away, but that does need some sign that they're willing to learn and the response here isn't showing that. GoldenRing (talk) 14:06, 21 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
• @Hut 8.5: we can certainly topic ban an antivax editor from vaccine-related editing per the Pseudoscience discretionary sanctions. There may not have been enough disruptive article space edits since the DS alert to motivate a topic ban, but bludgeoning and overwhelming talkpages in the way JzG describes is also disruptive, and the editor needs to understand that. However, I agree with RexxS that we're not altogether ready to topic ban the user yet, as the DS alert came kind of late. I propose a logged warning stating that any further disruption, including talkpage disruption, will lead to a preferably indefinite topic ban. (Indefinite, because time-limited topic bans make it too easy for SPA users to simply wait them out, instead of editing in other areas and learning about helpful editing.) As you know, dear colleagues, any admin can place such a ban per their admin discretion — if the disruption persists, it won't be necessary to waste AE time again. Bishonen | talk 20:00, 21 August 2019 (UTC).[reply]
• Needs a swift ban from the subject area with extreme prejudice. ~Swarm~ ^{sting} 00:02, 25 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Re: "Has any admin taken ownership of this and taken action? Is there a consensus on what to do?"[18] It appears that CMTBard has tumbled on to the fact that if you stop posting when ANI or AE starts looking into your behavior, nobody is motivated to take immediate action. Eventually the archive bot will archive the discussion with no decision, and CMTBard will be free to continue pushing his antivax POV, ignoring consensus, and misrepresenting sources. Unless someone here thinks that CMTBard has been immunized against suddenly lost his interest in Righting Great Wrongs... --Guy Macon (talk) 04:31, 27 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning TimothyHorrigan

User who is submitting this request for enforcement

Starship.paint (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 08:31, 25 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested

TimothyHorrigan (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/American_politics_2#Discretionary_sanctions_.281932_cutoff.29 :

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

1. 23:19, 22 August 2019 - Vandalism of a WP:BLP page by adding false information about Donald Trump. Ivy-League golf team? Dreams of joining the military? Big hands? Seems totally made up.

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

1. 15:13, 26 September 2016 Blocked 24 hours for edit warring on the same article, Donald Trump

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

• Alerted about discretionary sanctions in the area of conflict in the last twelve months, see the system log linked to above.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

1. User talk:TimothyHorrigan#August 2017 - Warned by Amakimi for disruptive editing
2. User talk:TimothyHorrigan#October 2017 - Warned by Hirolovesswords for original research or synthesis
3. User talk:TimothyHorrigan#November 2018 - Warned by SummerPhD for original research

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Discussion concerning TimothyHorrigan

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by TimothyHorrigan

Statement by (username)

Result concerning TimothyHorrigan

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

• Decline. Discretionary sanctions are for persistent problems, not for one joke edit, however silly. The previous warnings and the one 24-hour block are quite old. Bishonen | talk 11:13, 25 August 2019 (UTC).[reply]