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* [[User:WillowW/List of NCBI taxonomic journal references (part 10A)]] (references 9001-9500) |
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* [[User:WillowW/List of NCBI taxonomic journal references (part 10B)]] (references 9501-10000) |
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* [[User:WillowW/List of NCBI taxonomic journal references (part 11)]] (references 10001-11000) |
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Revision as of 18:12, 22 March 2007
WILLOWW's TALK PAGE |
![]() Soddy's hexletHey Geometry guy, I worked a little on Soddy's hexlet today; I hope that you like it! :) I was wondering, though, whether you could make some nice pictures for it, and also whether you could track down a reference for the cyclide thing. It seems pretty obvious, but I couldn't find a good reference online nor in my slim collection of books. Thanks muchly! :) Off to work again, heigh ho, Willow 22:54, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
Thanks, Geometry guy! I'll check it out instanter, although I've got to dash off again... Willow 12:39, 2 March 2007 (UTC) Saintly toleranceI am amazed by your forbearance on the Immune system talk page. The urge to rend and tear those rude and insulting newbies into little meaty chunks must have been overwhelming. TimVickers 17:19, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
It's on the main page today, so policy says we can't protect it. Oh well. P.S. if you have time in the coming week, could you have a good critical read of the antioxidant article and comment in its FAC? Thanks TimVickers 20:17, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
Welcome backGood to see your typeface again. TimVickers 19:18, 11 March 2007 (UTC) Daisy's taxonomy files
Daisy could easily do that, but she has a question: how far down the taxonomic tree should the phylum references be used — just in the class articles, or all the way down? Her idea had been to use the references provided by the NCBI, but only for the taxonomic rank of the article, e.g., phylum-specific references in phylum articles, and class-specific references in class articles. However, it would be just as easy to include the NCBI references of the immediate parent taxonomic rank, or of all higher taxonomic ranks. Which do you think would be most sensible? Please reply quickly, since I'm apt to do it tomorrow; thanks much! :) Willow 04:42, 13 March 2007 (UTC) P.S. Oh, and where should the references go — perhaps under "Further reading"?
Thanks! :) One last favor: would you please look at, say, Talk:Methanomicrobia and tell me your opinion about which WikiProject banners should be included? I'm now inclined to include only the Microbiology banner (not {{Wikiproject MCB}} and {{Tree of Life}}), but I'd also like to alert people that a photo or a taxobox is needed. Perhaps I should add the "needs-photo" and "needs-taxobox" flags to the {{WikiProject Micro}}? It wouldn't take much work. Please reply as soon as you can — thanks muchly! :) Willow 16:52, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
Wow, thanks, O! I even sort of follow your program, which does you great credit since I've never learned Python. But it's not trivial for me; could I maybe generalize your program to multiple files on the command line with a for loop like this? for taxofile in sys.argv[1:]: Should the program sleep between uploads to spare the poor server? Also, do I need to do that login.py thing? I'm also tempted to put the file directly into its spot in Wikipedia, but I don't want to touch an existing page. Could I add something like if len(articlepage) == 0: articlepage.put(articlecontent,editsummary) Does len pertain to articlepages, or should I use some other method, maybe like articlepage.exists or something? Let's see: there's lots else to ask and to answer!
Important problem: I need advice on how to categorize the taxonomic stubs. My original idea was to make a category for every major taxon (that's what Daisy does right now), but there are sometimes too few members. I've taken to grouping everything under the phylum (e.g., Category:Euryarchaeota) but that doesn't group articles by their taxonomic rank. Perhaps I should make new sub-cats such as Category:Archaea phyla, Category:Archaea classes, etc.? Please give me your advice — thanks! :) Willow 12:12, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
Oh, how I know what you mean! I honestly don't know why I'm always getting distracted by bright shiny things that I know dangerously little about and that my poor powers will never attain — a little Icara with Daedalin dreams. ;) But that makes the encouragement all the more welcome. But really, Tim, you're ideally suited to judge which categorization makes the most sense for smart non-experts, no? I'm going to try out the new idea, and please let me know if you like it. Willow 17:42, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
Taxonomy-stub and archaea-stubHi -i - I see you have recently created two new stub types. As it states at Wikipedia:Stub, at the top of most stub categories, and in many other places on Wikipedia, it is recommended that new stub types are proposed prior to creation at Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting/Proposals, in order to check whether the new stub type is already covered by existing stub types, whether it is named according to stub naming guidelines, whether it reaches the standard threshold for creation of a new stub type, and whether it crosses existing stub type hierarchies. Your new stub types are currently listed at WP:WSS/D - please feel free to make any comments there as to any rationale for them. And please, in future, consider proposing new stub types first! Grutness...wha? 01:36, 14 March 2007 (UTC) Taxonomic lists and categoriesOne solution might be to use lists rather than categories if there are too few members. In that way you have a full page but can preserve the taxanomic ranks too. One problem is that you would not be able to automate such a process since it would probably require the human touch. David D. (Talk) 12:34, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
Do all pages need a category? From a taxonomic point of view it makes little sense to have unpopulated categories. What i would do is consolidate all your loners and pairs into a list that defines some sensible group (sensible from a taxonomic and numbers perspective). Then categorise that list in the appropriate category. There is nothing more frustrating than clicking down through categories to find only one or two aritcles. Much better get get stopped short to see an article in the form of a well organised list that allows some context to be gleaned from all the relationships. May be i could set up an example if you give me a group to work with? David D. (Talk) 18:03, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
Here is a solution I just found, before you start the tedious bore. It's not exactly what i am saying but i think the problem is similar and it might be a better compromise. Category:True_vipers pretty much stops trying to subdivide the vipers further with this big category. Note that also listed in thecategory is the List_of_viperine_species_and_subspecies. So may be the solution is to have fairly big category AND lists. David D. (Talk) 18:14, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
Hard to say on length and the natural break point may be different depending on the organism. i can say that this list is far too long. List_of_dog_breeds. i could live with a couple of pages, about 100-200? The nice thing about a list is you can add a comment here and there to make it more useful than the bog standard alphabetical lists set up by the categories. David D. (Talk) 18:33, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
"Perhaps use the intermediate taxonomic ranks as subheadings? " Exactly :) David D. (Talk) 20:44, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
Taxonomic references, proofreading, pictures and inter-wiki'sHi all, It looks like Daisy won't be able to sing those exhaustive reference lists before she has to go to sleep tonight. (I'm helping her work out the various bugs in her throat.) But it would be really helpful if you all could proofread, say, one randomly chosen page each from Category:Archaea phyla, Category:Archaea classes, Category:Archaea orders, Category:Archaea families, Category:Archaea genera, and Category:Archaea species. (As an aside, here's a fun, risqué mnemonic for the taxonomic ranks: King Phylip came over for good sex.) We should try to catch everything awry before Opabinia encourages Daisy into polyphony; it would be awful to repeat the same mistake in 270,000 pages! Thanks muchly for your help and time, Willow 20:59, 14 March 2007 (UTC) P.S. Another difficult question: is there a semi-automated way to find free-use images for a given species? I was thinking of using Google Image and filtering with "site:.gov", but I honestly don't know that government images are free. Does anyone have any good ideas? PPS. Daisy figured out how to add the synonyms to the taxobox. :)
That's excellent, and also raises another good point — should we add interwiki links to other wiki's? Perhaps the French, German, Japanese and Russian ones, which seem to have the greatest number of taxa. But there's also no harm in adding others, e.g., the Swedish, except for a higher chance of a broken link. It's easy to implement however we want it. Willow 21:55, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
On a second look, it would likely be hard to do the interwiki links, since the other wiki's don't generally use the Latin taxonomic name, but rather some adaptation, e.g., de:Halobakterien. The foreign alphabets (say, for the Russian and Japanese wikis) would've been hard, too. But if we can get this going, perhaps we can send them the code so that they could do it themselves? A semi-automated way of finding species pictures would be wonderful, but that too may be just a pipe dream. Let's keep looking, though! :) Willow 22:24, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
Help with nested templates?Hi Willow, Opabinia regalis pointed me your way from this discussion as someone who may be willing and able to help beautify a template. Actually, I'm trying to nest two templates together but have so far failed. The example I'm playing with is on ITK (gene). Any thoughts you have would be much appreciated... Actually, in reading a bit of the discussion above on NCBI's taxonomy data, I think there is quite a similarity of your effort and the one I proposed here, essentially doing the same for all genes in the mammalian genome. The previous discussion was pretty lengthy (mostly my fault for lumping too many issues together), but if you're interested in working together or sharing notes, I'd definitely be open to it! Cheers, AndrewGNF 01:07, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
Hi Willow, Great, glad you’re enthusiastic about this. Don’t worry about holes in knowledge. Bioinformatics is filled with people who are jacks of many trades, masters of none. In fact, up until a few years ago, you couldn’t even find a “card carrying” bioinformatician because there were no such academic programs. Anyway, you’ll fit right in… On to your questions… First, an overview… There is consensus that there are roughly 25,000 – 30,000 genes in the human genome, and a comparable number for all “close” relatives (primates, mouse, dog, rat, etc.). However, a big problem is not everyone agrees on the exact list of genes, and moreover, people can’t agree on what to call genes that everyone agrees exist. The ITK (gene) is a reasonable example. You’ll see here links to many different databases, all of which have a different ID for the same gene. Keeping track of all the cross-references between databases is quite a chore, so many examples of “gene portals” have been created to essentially keep up-to-date as each database evolves and new ones are added. We at GNF have one too (called SymAtlas) and we are somewhat unique in that we use our gene portal to also present data which we’ve generated and released to the public domain. SymAtlas (and other gene portals) are great at displaying structured data – information stored in tables and databases. But, of course, they are not good for storing (much less collecting and displaying) “free text” information, and this is of course a strength of a wiki. My proposal is pretty straightforward. We can take our structured content in SymAtlas (which we’ve collected and maintain from a large number of public databases) and use these data to seed protein infoboxes for all genes ‘’en masse’’. We’ll also hyperlink from SymAtlas to Wikipedia to give our (somewhat sizeable) user community a place to add that “free text” knowledge. The stubs hopefully will lower the barrier for SymAtlas users to contribute (since they’ll be editing a page rather than creating one). In turn, the Wikipedia community can contribute the extensive editing, beautifying, vandalism-fighting, and everything-else expertise (and also the domain knowledge contributed by the MCB project) and really help things take off. By analogy, biology journals often publish “review articles” which summarize the current knowledge in the literature for a particular gene or gene family. I would love it if the Wikipedia community maintained (and SymAtlas linked to) a continually-updated review article for every gene in the mammalian genome. And in response to a couple of your questions (which are good questions, by the way, that point to important issues in the field)… There is an effort here to standardize gene names (ITK, for example), so it is this name that I suggest we use as the title for the Wikipedia pages. And regarding genes versus their protein products, personally I believe all that information should go on one page. We commonly refer to “gene function” when we really mean the function of the protein product, and although SNPs are a property of the gene, they are highly relevant to the protein product. Whew! I hope you made it through all of that without falling asleep. If you want to break out the discussion into smaller bits, I’m happy to do that too. Let me know if you have any other questions or topics of discussion. When we have a common framework of understanding, we can move on to the specifics of what should be done and how we might work together… Cheers! AndrewGNF 22:04, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
IRC on Work via WikiProjectsHi Willow, I recall your interest in looking at unassessed articles. I am trying to set up an IRC meeting to plan a strategy for this. The starting point is this discussion. Your input (and help) is most welcome - can you make it? Thanks, Walkerma 04:53, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
Maybe Daisy....should use templates where possible? For external links a template similar to this {{Daisy | genus=Nanoarchaeum | species=equitans | microbe=yes }} could be used to give the following type of output.
The advantage of such a strategy is that if the formating for the links changes later you only have to adjust the template rather than geting a bot to change all the pages. Another thing to consider is that the target links can be modified in the future to account for new resources, or removed as they become obsolete. How about this, for your workhorse species? :) {{Daisy | genus=Luscinia | species=megarhynchos | microbe= }}
or Daisy can be more general and only go with genus, like this: {{Daisy | genus=Luscinia | species= | microbe= }} or the minimalist look: {{Daisy | genus=Luscinia }}
Strangely Daisy is not represented on tree of life website!!!!!, but understandably not present on microbes are us. Clearly this template needs tweeking but you get the idea. You can find the template in your user space at User:WillowW/Daisy. David D. (Talk) 22:08, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
Fashion wikiproject!I'm so excited that you're on board for the wikiproject. Looks like you keep busy with a bunch of other stuff, but any contributions are welcome! I was really amazed when I started looking at how bad all the fashion coverage on wikipedia is. Normally I wonder how anyone even knows the half stuff that gets posted on wikipedia, but it's actually kind of fun to find a topic that's still in its infancy, so amateurs can contribute meaningfully too! Thanks for your offer to help with MathBot--I don't even know what that is but it sounds good and I'll take any help I can get... :) And as far as calliopes go, I just had a picture book with one in it when I was little that I really liked. Most of the time, I get people asking me about the muse Calliope, but I guess you sensed I'm not high-brow enough for that! Calliopejen 02:46, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
New User PageNot sure about your promised new User Page: it seems to move away from the wonder and fascination of the main image, which (in addition your incredible talent to work on a huge variety of wikipedia articles across the namespace) seems to me to capture many of your individual qualities, but hey, what do I know :) ! Geometry guy 19:39, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
Tinker away: it looks good, and this is your space!
I found it fabulously funny, even as the willing target of your rapier wit! I wish I had time to write the reposte you ask for! Geometry guy 00:22, 17 March 2007 (UTC) Taxonomic referencesHappy news, Daisy cleared her throat and can now sing all the NCBI taxonomic references note-perfect (I think). She'll try to weave it together with David's template idea, and try it out on Monday. Please send along any other suggestions you might have for the taxonomic pages and lists. Doesn't it feel like the time before a concert, when the orchestra is tuning up? :) Willow 22:42, 16 March 2007 (UTC) P.S. If anyone else has suggestions for how I should improve my user-page, I'd very much appreciate it. Thanks!
fashion wikiprojectthanks so much for getting the article-counter thing set up! do you know why the WP:FASH page looks all screwy though? it seems that whenever the right pane gets beyond a certain width it makes the left pane super-small. i know basically nothing about table set-up and just copied the layout from another wikiproject, so i am helpless to fix it! :) any further ideas/help much appreciated! Calliopejen 17:41, 18 March 2007 (UTC) What a great page!Stumbled on it by accident and was blown (gently) away. What a page, what a person, what a devotion! My hat is off to you. Arcfrk 13:13, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
Help with citation templates?Hi all, What's the Wikipedia citation template for a book chapter? There's a zillion taxonomic references to chapters in Bergey's Manual. :) The taxonomic references and synonyms appear to be working, as long as the reference is to a journal and the NCBI entry itself is OK. I'm still working on fixing glitches in the NCBI file itself; stay tuned! :) Willow 23:14, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
Need help proofreading the taxonomic referencesHi, the taxonomic references seem to be working, but they should be proofread before they're uploaded en masse. To warm up, Daisy made a list of the 4428 NCBI taxonomic references that she thought were journal articles. They're grouped into 19 sub-pages (listed below) of roughly 200 references each, sorted by the NCBI reference ID number. Would you all be so kind as to pick one sub-page for proofreading, and note which references aren't journal articles and other mistakes? Please list your name and your chosen section here, so that we don't overlap. Thanks muchly! Willow 21:47, 20 March 2007 (UTC) P.S. I know that some articles don't have a dot in front of them; that's a bug for single-author articles that I've fixed already. P.P.S. There appears to be a glitch in Wikipedia, so only the first few hundred references are visible, although they're all formatted correctly. Here are the individual sets:
You'll want to flag misformatting inappropriate journal names or article titles, as well as publication dates, volumes or page numbers. All of these articles should have a valid {{PMID}} for convenient cross-checking. Noting duplications is good, too, although that's intrinsic to the NCBI, not to Daisy; I'll try to write a script that at least identifies them all. Thanks so much for your help! :)
List of proofreaders of journal references:
List of proofreaders of nonjournal references:
Thanks, Tim, I made the corrections in the original NCBI file! :)
Thanks, Aranae, that's also a true error in the NCBI file, but I could fix it by creating a new reference. Thanks for pointing that out! :) Willow 20:21, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
Hey O, the semicolon does look strange, no? But it's part of the {{cite journal}} template; it separates the first author from the coauthors. Whether the period appears at the end of the author list has (so far) depended on what's in the NCBI file, but I can fix that. Thanks for your help and also the advice; in retrospect, it was really dumb to put these lists into article space. :( Hopefully, I won't always be such a clueless Chloe. ;) Willow 09:31, 22 March 2007 (UTC) List of NCBI taxonomic journal references (part XX)Hi, WillowW. I have noticed that you have created a lot of lengthy articles like List of NCBI taxonomic journal references (part 15). I can imagine such an info developed by a collaborative project can be quite useful, but I do not believe it belongs to the article's space. Per WP:NOT Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information. Would you consider transwiki the texts to Wikisource? Or maybe as a subpage to a Wikipedia project? Alex Bakharev 20:55, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
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