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Grinner 10:01, 10 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Grinner. You seem to have interests in the some of the same fields as me, so you may come across me quite a bit. If you have any comments or objections to anything I post then please bring them to my attention and they will be addressed promptly. Please do not do a Gillean666 and go into mass destruction mode... (btw during the few hours between the creation of the panorama links by Mark J, about which I had no knowledge at the time, and destruction by Gillean666 the quantity of orders I took was precisely nil). Postings that followed their destruction were in support of the links so I have restored them, I hope they are OK. Viewfinder 11:03, 10 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I'm liking the panoramas, so no I won't be deleting them. By the way I think Gillean has relented on the mass deletion mode. Grinner 11:25, 10 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I like the panoramas - very interesting. But I can't see the one for An Sgurr, Eigg - it's giving me a 404 error message - can you help? CarolGray 22:28, 12 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry - link typo, thanks for drawing it to my attention. It should be OK now but the image size is greater than A4 so note the paragraph about download at the top of the page. Viewfinder 22:45, 12 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Copying this across from User talk:Mark J#Panoramas 'Spam':

I'd just like to pip in here and say I have trouble finding the usefulness in all those linked panoramas. Additionally the commercial aspect is way off too. Remember WP:EL#What should not be linked to... If the copyright of these images was such that they could be added to WP itself, then... Thanks/wangi 21:50, 14 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Right, I'll take it to Viewfinder's page, although you are the one adding the links! Although I am going to remove at least the link from the Forth Road Bridge article - having a panorama of peaks visable from a peak is one thing, but from a bridge!? Thanks/wangi 17:20, 15 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Basically if the image itself was licenced so it could be included in Wikipedia then fair enough... However you're using web links as a way of getting round putting the images up for real. Web links aren't a way to bypass copyright. Thanks/wangi 17:36, 15 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

These panoramas have already been deleted once and and the reaction can be found here. Surely to look at the view from a mountain is part of the reason for climbing it, so the images ARE relevant and useful. The mountain pages are in need of expansion. Why not add some more external links?

I do not understand some of the above so I cannot really comment. I have taken no orders at all as a result of the images being on Wikipedia so there is no commercial element. There is nothing advertised on the linked site. The images ARE up for real. I suppose I could put the panoramas on the Wikipedia pages themselves but they would take up loads of space and drown out everything else.

On the copyright issue, I am the copyright holder. It is theoretically possible that the OS could object on the basis that the panoramas were made from their data but so far they have not done so and it would be both destructive and unnecessary for them to do so. Viewfinder 21:41, 15 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I have been using the {{coor dms}} template in some city articles lately. I am asking you this question because I notice you had made some edits to the template. What it the 9th parameter to the template? I can’t find any information on the talk page. •DanMS 05:01, 24 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I tried editing this template but I was concerned about the effects so I reverted them. I am not sure what you mean by the ninth parameter; there seem to be only eight.

I may try deleting the superfluous spaces between the minutes and seconds, and seconds and hemisphere. What do you think about these? It seems to me that either these should go, or a space should also separate the degrees from the minutes. I did this for the Mtnbox coor dms template, and the change seems to have been accepted. Viewfinder 14:24, 24 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Viewfinder - well done on correcting the caption (was about to do the same!). But what does "30" mean? - MPF 12:54, 26 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Clarified this, see Andes Viewfinder 13:03, 26 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks! - MPF 13:32, 26 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Following your comments in Talk:Highest unclimbed mountain I’ve decided to reply here. In particular the page on your website about the heights of the mountains and the position of the border is tremendously interesting. You’ve obviously done a lot of work and have impeccable sources! A lot seems to have happened in the last few months and I hadn’t kept up. A sad backdrop is http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/7598_1583871,000500020006.htm. It does indeed look as if Kula Kangri is not so high as Gangkhar Puensum and this may have ramifications on the border issue.

Clearly, the zig-zag border makes no topographical sense but I’d be less confident that you are that the border is (or would be decided to be) along the watershed! Helping your argument is the Bhutan article http://www.dop.gov.bt/fyp/05/05fyp_01.htm you drew to my attention which says “”The border with Tibet is traditional, following ... the crest of the Himalayas in the north”. I wonder whether, knowing the positions of KK and GP, some committee “pencilled in” the border on the ridge between them and continued east and west from there, generally along the “crest”. If KK is lower then one could properly regard this ridge as a spur (as you do) but this would not have been known at the time.

Steven Berry, in saying that GP is wholly in Bhutan was possibly simply reporting what he had been told. However, my 1992 big Times Atlas is very odd. It shows the zig-zag border but marks a mountain only at the SW “zag”. It marks it “Kula Kangri 7554” but I had realised this must be wrong. The Lat/long are pretty much where GP is stated to be. Even though I presumed the map is wrong I supposed it was just that the mountain is wrongly labelled. However, the mountain is not shown on the zag of the border but a couple of miles west. This makes no sense but I was taking it seriously. Hence, I felt there was “authority” for GP to be in Bhutan rather than exactly on the border.

Your relief map is terrific! However, even if we were certain the border was on the watershed, I think that still leaves doubt. If KK were higher (as it certainly used to be thought to be) how would you draw a watershed passing through KK? Would it pass through GP? There may be a subjective element here.

Two minor comments: on your http://www.viewfinderpanoramas.org/kula.html article, the link to the Japanese map is broken (it is OK on http://www.sol.co.uk/v/viewfinder/kula.html) also, your link to http://gangkhar-puensum.iqnaut.net/ strives me as odd in that is simply mirrors the Wikipedia Gangkhar Puensum article (acknowledging the fact). Thincat 13:51, 11 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for the above comments. On the relative heights, it is possible that the Chinese may have rigged their figures to further their territorial cause, but this seems unlikely because (a) they would be likely to be caught and exposed, (b) many other new elevations which they have published in their Mountaineering Guide seem to be accurate and SRTM compatible, and (c) their territorial case is not, imo, dependent on these heights. Mountain range "crests" do not have to include their highest points, and in some cases cannot do so without a long detour. Even if KK is the local HP, drawing the border over it would be difficult. Such a border would either have to pass (a) over GP, the NE over KK, then eastwards which would take it north of settlements that all authorities now agree are Tibetan, or (b) descend to a low point well to the north of the pass west of GP, then turn south over KK, south west towards GP, but turn east before reaching GP, leaving GP wholly in Bhutan. Course (b) is shown on large scale (and mostly wrong) maps, but not on detailed topos because they expose its illogic. The case for it would be hard to substantiate, because it would go a long way from the watershed, and it would create a kind of Bhutanese enclave, easily approached from Tibet but cut off from the rest of Bhutan by a high pass defended by glaciers.

It would be interesting to know more information about the locations and nature of recent Chinese border incursions. If high altitude civil engineering work is needed to avoid flooding then this strengthens the case for watershed borders. There may also be military considerations, but this page is probably not the right place to elaborate on these.

The local 1:200000 Russian topography (1980's) of the area can be downloaded here. The summit names and heights are wrong (it gives KK 7425m) but the general relief and border course are correct. As you say, the Times Atlas has Kula Kangri in the wrong place, and its topography seems to be wrong.

Sorry about the slight mix-up over links, my SOL server was down earlier this week so I had to use my other site. I am gradually transferring everything to the new VP site but I cannot do this all at once because of links from other sites. Viewfinder 12:38, 12 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

How can you see San Diego and Palm Springs from Mt. Whitney? To the best of my knowledge, those cities are well obscured. I have a similar question about supposedly seeing Reno from Mt. Diablo, all the way across the Sierra Nevada.