That was fast, you deleted that advertisement while I was still typing my edit comment ;) silsor 05:10, Nov 19, 2003 (UTC)

What do we do about the credit repair external link? I am troubled that this article is being used to generate trafic for a commercial web site. At the same time when I look at the site I see pages of valuable indepth information. I wish WP was so useful on this topic. The problem we have is that the web site info is copyrighted and can be used on WP only by citing the web page. Unfortunately, that means we should be deleting the whole page and not just the link. Can we come to some sort of compromise with the author? mydogategodshat 04:31, 20 Nov 2003 (UTC)

We could probably put the credit info on the Talk page. What do you think? RickK 04:34, 20 Nov 2003 (UTC)

You could suggest that to him. He might be happy with that. I took a look at Wikipedia:Sites that use Wikipedia for content to see if doing that would satsify WP policy if the circumstances were reversed. I don't know for sure, but I think WP would expect the citation on the same page as the Wikinformation. Another option is to put a warning on the link stating that it is a commercial web site. Hope you can work something out with him. mydogategodshat 05:34, 20 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Hi Rick :) I've reverted your last edit, since the edit by User:12.234.161.193 had already gone through a large process by others of NPOVing and removing of all those external links.

Just "so you know" :) Dysprosia 05:29, 20 Nov 2003 (UTC)

I'm honestly confused. How in the world is proper, honest attribution to another site, and, on top of which, that site is FREE to all comers, and has been a free internet resource for nearly a decade, in any way an advertisement? Kielsky 16:34, Nov 20, 2003 (UTC)

I'd estimate you're making money from approximately 50 banner ads on that page. silsor 16:39, Nov 20, 2003 (UTC)

Not the way you might think. Only when a reader clicks through AND pays for the associated good or service, then I may see a commission. Kielsky 17:05, Nov 20, 2003 (UTC)

Your repeated use of the "trademark" icon was also a small hint. RickK 16:41, 20 Nov 2003 (UTC)

You have no idea how many times over the last ten years my page has been copied OUTRIGHT and passed off as the work of another. Kielsky 17:05, Nov 20, 2003 (UTC)

Since you're the original author, it seems apparent that the only purpose of listing the link right in the article is to get it attention. Why not just list it in the talk page? silsor 16:44, Nov 20, 2003 (UTC)

This is the part I don't get. I'm certain the purpose is to get high-quality content into Wikipedia, for our mutual benefit. Is it not conceivable that such content could have already been created and copyrighted by another? Is it then not possible, that if the author grants permission, that this content could be duplicated here, with the author requesting only proper attribution? How has this done anything but enhance the very value Wikipedia promotes? Kielsky 17:05, Nov 20, 2003 (UTC)

You're dodging the point. I pointed out that your only purpose in giving the link to the site is to draw attention to it. There is no need for you to say "quoted with permission" since you are the original author of the work, and by contributing parts of it to Wikipedia you have relicensed parts of it under the GNU Free Documentation License. If you were only saying "quoted with permission" to clear up any confusion about the matter, a simple notice on the talk page would be adequate. By your own admission you try to make money from the page and in my opinion that makes it an advertisement. silsor 19:13, Nov 20, 2003 (UTC)

Not to mention that even if you did not make money from the page, it would be a vanity advertisement. silsor 19:30, Nov 20, 2003 (UTC)

Quoting from section 2 of the GFDL: "You may copy and distribute the Document in any medium, either commercially or noncommercially, provided that this License, the copyright notices, and the license notice saying this License applies to the Document are reproduced in all copies, and that you add no other conditions whatsoever to those of this License." This makes it very clear the copyright notice is an integral part of the copy. The way I see it is that some people are insisting that my copyright somehow is not deserving the same courtesy. I'm happy to share, freely, under the terms of the GFDL those portions of my copyrighted work I have posted, but I insist that my rights under that very same GFDL be respected. Kielsky

I'm not sure Rick's talk page is the place to have this discussion (apologies Rick) but you should note "If you don't want your writing to be edited mercilessly ... then don't submit it here" and that includes removing any links you add to your site. Angela 20:50, 20 Nov 2003 (UTC)