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I don't plan to write to Jimbo on his recent courtesy blankings, but if you do check with him, I'd be interested in know what's up. The subject's pages continue to morph, but only get apparently odder. Let me know - Robertissimo 14:50, 8 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The subject wrote to me upset, not so much about the deletion, but about the defamatory language that you and others used to describe him. Remember, we are wikipedians, we should treat everyone with dignity and respect no matter the circumstances. I strongly advise against using such language as "elaborate scam" and "scam artist" to describe people. We should do better than that. Is the subject verifiable? That's a good yes or no question that does not mock or insult anyone. If we have our own private opinions, well, fine. :) But there is no need to belittle people in public.--Jimbo Wales 13:47, 9 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

(courtesy copy from my talk page)

In regards to your posting on my Talk page:

The subject wrote to me upset, not so much about the deletion, but about the defamatory language that you and others used to describe him. Remember, we are wikipedians, we should treat everyone with dignity and respect no matter the circumstances. I strongly advise against using such language as "elaborate scam" and "scam artist" to describe people. We should do better than that. Is the subject verifiable? That's a good yes or no question that does not mock or insult anyone. If we have our own private opinions, well, fine. :) But there is no need to belittle people in public.--Jimbo Wales 13:47, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

With real respect, Mr. Wales, I need to take strong exception to this. I went out of my way to avoid any personal disparagements. I used language like "I cannot find verification" and "the record does not appear to support these claims". I also said, quite specifically, that I was "assuming good faith here," inviting new documentation to be presented. When I concluded the claims were not verifiable I went out of my way to state, explicitly, that the subject of the article did NOT necessarily have anything to do with its authorship.

I would point specifically to what I wrote, but, of course, every word has been "courtesy blanked", so I no longer have access to them. I most certainly do not recall using the words "elaborate scam" or "scam artist". While others might have used those terms in the AfD discussion, I don't deserve to be painted with that broad brush. Whoever prompted you to take me to task was perhaps hoping you'd be too busy for more than a cursory review of the AfDs. I'm probably singled out because I authored the last AfD.

Aside from all that, why exactly is the SUBJECT of the biographical article crying "defamatory language"? After all, he never admitted to being the author. All criticism was directed toward the (unsourced) articles themselves, so at most the competence and/or motives of the author could be impugned. Had there been an ad hominem attack leveled at the subject of this article, your chastising would be warranted. But that's not the case here.

Someone went to great lengths to plant plausible but unsupportable articles in Wikipedia. Someone launched what was generally percieved as a bevy of sock puppets to defend them. When the AfDs went against those articles, someone prevailed upon you to delete all traces of the critiques. All standard operating procedure; I certainly wasn't taking any of it personally. But when someone who has not the remotest claim against me can pressure you into delivering a public spanking, I've got to say I'm a little disappointed. I respect you, Mr. Wales, and have always thought of you as being the prime advocate for contributors such as myself.

Could you please do me the courtesy of removing your reprimand? --Pagana 19:00, 9 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Wow. I hardly know where to begin here. First, the words 'elaborate scam' and 'scam artist' are direct quotes from you. Here is the diff. Second, I have no idea why you are claiming that the courtesy blanking is keeping you from seeing anything. All I did was blank the page. To see the history of any page, of course, you can simply click on 'history' and it is all there.

I did not delete anything, and generally do so under only the most extreme circumstances. And you did, in fact, use the language I cited, and it was, in fact, inappropriate to do so. It is hardly a grand crime, but really. We can do better. --Jimbo Wales 20:51, 9 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]