For the sake of conversational continuity:

If you leave a message for me here, I will respond here.
If I leave a message on your talk page, I will watch your talk page and read your response there.

Tapadh Leibh,
--KPN

P.S. Please respect Wikiquette, which means: assume good faith, be polite, and bear in mind what Wikipedia is not. You may also enjoy Tips for the Angry New User. If you are an admin considering going Rouge, you may appreciate these makeup tips.

Archives

---

1. July 2005 - July 2006
2. The Halloween Debacle of 2006
3. If You Are Here to Talk About Jim Morrison
4. Other things that happened July - October 2006
5. November 1 - 20, 2006
6. CVU, RC Patrol, VP, and other Vandalism-related discussions from late 2006
7. Stalk Talk - Starwood and Trolls - The Attack of the Sock-Headed Hydra
8. Other things that happened November 22, 2006 - January 3, 2007

16 May 2024
News and notes: Democracy in action: multiple elections Special report: Will the new RfA reform come to the rescue of administrators? Arbitration report: Ruined temples for posterity to ponder over – arbitration from '22 to '24 In the media: Deadnames on the French Wikipedia, and a duel between Russian wikis Op-Ed: Wikidata to split as sheer volume of information overloads infrastructure Comix: Generations Traffic report: Crawl out through the fallout, baby
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Thank you for your support in the RfA on my behalf. It is an honor to have received your expression of confidence. To be chosen as an administrator requires a high level of confidence by a broad section of the community. Although I received a great deal of support, at this time I do not hold the level of confidence required, and the RfA did not pass. It is my wish that I will continue to deserve your confidence. Sincerely, --BostonMA ^talk 16:02, 3 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'm sure you'll breeze through the next one. I look forward to working together in the future. I think you'll do just fine with the extra buttons. :-) ~ Kathryn NicDhàna ♫♦♫ 06:25, 4 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I hope I spelled that right:), it's a very important name for me.

Anyhow - welcome to Wikiproject Religion! There is a lot to do there. Also, consider joining the neutrality project. We could use folks like you.

Today is the Mahayana Buddhist New Year, so here is a complimentary card made by me. Hope you like it!

• 
  Please click on useless image and all my useless Wiki-links. Happy New Year from a complete maniac. Nina Odell 19:14, 31 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for the welcome and the lovely card, Nina. I particularly enjoyed your tips for angry new admins. I'll check out the neutrality project and see if I can help. Happy Buddhist New Year to you, too! ~ Kathryn NicDhàna ♫♦♫ 06:25, 4 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You clicked on the links! You clicked on the links! Thank you! Feel free to shameless thieve from me and share with anyone who needs a whacking stick. Nina Odell 12:28, 4 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hi...I just wanted to say that I appreciate the humor in your same sex marriage user box. Also, I note the good work you are doing in wikipedia and just wanted to say thanks and hi. --Kukini 05:43, 4 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Why thank you! That means a lot to me. What a pleasant change to check in from CVU patrol and see something kind (instead of retaliatory rampaging vandals who want to tell me all about their penises). And it's a good day when my romantic challenges can educate, inform, and inspire... *cue dreamy muzak*... *snerk* :-) ~ Kathryn NicDhàna ♫♦♫ 06:25, 4 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Glad I made you smile too. Cheers, --Kukini 16:42, 4 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for having joined the WikiProject Religion! It is basically only a recently reformed group, and, as you probably could tell from the project page, and there is still a lot that needs to be done. Any help you might be able to give in any area of the project would be more than welcome. I noticed in particular that you expressed interest in the Paganism, Neopaganism, and some of the traditions of the African Diaspora and the First Nations. You have no idea how happy I am to see that! Our aims are to improve and maintain the articles relating to religion which do not fall within the scope of any of the other projects, as well as to potentially create new task forces or other projects to deal specifically with those other faiths. There are several articles which relate to one or more of these traditions which do not fall within the specific focus of any other projects, and we are more than grateful to have anyone who is knowledgable about those subjects. I have just now begun to catalogue all the relevant articles, and am finding that there is a huge number of articles which deal with religion subjects in general, without any particular focus on any specific religions. Any contributions you might be able to make on these articles, or any other articles that might interest you, would be more than welcome. Also, as indicated on the project page, we are hoping to create dedicated subprojects dealing with any faiths which have enough members to support one, and I hope that we may well have enough members interested in some of your interests to create subprojects or stand-alone projects dealing with them. If you should ever have any questions, or wish any sort of assistance, please do not hesitate to let me or the other members of the project know. Happy editing, and thanks again for joining the project! Badbilltucker 14:36, 4 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Happy New Year, Kathryn! Judging from your userboxes, I think we have a few interests in common. :-) I noticed that you were listed under the League of copyeditors and I am in urgent need for someone to help me with copyediting of the Ohio Wesleyan University. Would you have some time for it? Thank you so much for your time!!! WikiprojectOWU 22:11, 7 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Kathryn!

Please accept my apologies for the very much delayed reply to your message (I'm a bit unwell and have been on something of an on-again-off-again Wikibreak).

Yes, non-admins can contribute to WP:RfA discussions.

In fact, I'm a big believer in the idea that non-admins should do - and be encouraged to do - any task on Wikipedia that doesn't require the couple of extra buttons that being an admin gives you. Adminship is really no big deal - it's two extra options (protect and delete) and one extra function (block). That's all it comes down to.

Anything you see on Wikipedia - literally anything - that doesn't require the pushing of one of those buttons is something that everybody on Wikipedia should be doing. So discuss away on WP:RfA, close obvious "keeps" at the end of their time on WP:AfD, voice your opinions wherever an opportunity presents, and "act like an admin should" whenever you have reason to.

You'll just be benefitting Wikipedia by doing so. Happy editing! ⇨REDVEЯS 20:10, 8 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your informative and kind response, Redvers. Please rest up and get well, we need you here! Slàn! ~ Kathryn NicDhàna ♫♦♫ 22:23, 8 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you very much for protecting the Pupil (band) article. (bows my head) Moonwalkerwiz 07:13, 13 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ikoh nya'weh (i also thank you), for looking into my comments on the Seneca people page. Please note that the editor I am describing is currently attempting to eliminate a page that is about the Seneca Nation of Indians (a government). I find it interesting that this is in fact his state goal to perform as leader of the Niagara Chapter of the anti-Indian hate group UCE. esgo:geh ieh. jigwaas, Scuggy 18:13, 16 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

User:Pedia-I/SmileyAward2Jerry lavoie 22:29, 26 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hi. I noticed this message you left on the talk page of the Ogham article. I had this problem too, and I've just had a quick look for the solution today. A nice Alan Wood-shaped bloke helped me solve it. You just need to install one of the fonts from the list (some are no longer available, and some you have to register for or pay for). It worked for me. :) You probably have it sorted already, as I see you left your message at the end of November. --Mal 11:28, 27 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

		The Barnstar of Diligence
		The Barnstar of Diligence is hereby awarded in recognition of extraordinary scrutiny, patience, and community service. Awarded by Addhoc

Thank you! You are very kind, and it does my heart good to have my work noticed. :-) ~ Kathryn NicDhàna ♫♦♫ 23:48, 27 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

My bad. I was just trying to prevent anyone else from listening to that horrible spin off of rap. Snap music is destroying rap music. Try and tell me you (or anyone around you) would listen to or enjoy snap. Yes, that is the point. The ends justify the means in this case. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 76.214.83.160 (talk) 04:33, 28 January 2007 (UTC).[reply]

Hi, CorbieVreccan, welcome to WikiProject LGBT Studies! We are a growing community of Wikipedia editors dedicated to identifying, categorizing, and improving articles of interest to the LGBT community. Some points that may be helpful: Our main aim is to help improve LGBT-related articles, so if someone asks for help with an article, please try your hardest to help them if you are able. Most important discussions take place on the project's main discussion page; it is highly recommended that you watchlist it. The project has several ongoing and developing activities, such as article quality assessment, peer review and a project-wide article collaboration, all of which you are welcome to take part in. We also have a unique program to improve our lower quality articles, Jumpaclass, so please consider signing up there. If you have another language besides English, please consider adding yourself to our translation section, to help us improve our foreign LGBT topics. If you're planning to stay, have a square in our quilt! You can put anything you want in it. If you have any questions, feel free to ask on the talk page, and we will be happy to help you. And once again - Welcome!

-- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 05:25, 30 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The LGBT studies WikiProject Newsletter! Issue III - February 1, 2007

Announcement: If someone requests help or feedback on an article, please try your hardest to help them out if you are able. Thank you. Project News The LGBT Portal has once again been revamped and a work rota started. Efforts towards Featured Portal status are slowly coming together. The assessment system has been a great success, we have tagged over 4000 articles! Please tag any LGBT related articles you come across by adding {{LGBTProject | class=}} to the talkpage. Please see the Assessment Department for how to assess an article according to the grading system. The Translation department has changed its focus, to LGBT articles about non-English topics and people on which there may be more information on the relevant foreign Wikipedia. Please add your name if you are fluent in any language other than English. Jumpaclass is picking up slowly, with nine people having entered. With over 2000 stubs we need to improve our article quality. Please sign up and get it going! Challenge another user to see how far you can jump a stub! There is an ongoing discussion about the current LGBT categorisation system here, here, and a little bit here. A special page has now been set up here to deal with this. A Watchlist has been set up to monitor controversial and/or highly vandalised articles. It can also be used for article disputes, just add a note explaining the nature of the dispute. With the influx of so many active members, there is now enough support for a LGBT studies peer review, which may be found here. It's in the beta phase at the moment, so bear with us if we make any mistakes. Feel free to peer review any articles you have been working on. It was agreed this month to start reducing the uses of the Notice board, as many members felt that it was not effective. An open tasks template has been created, bringing together important announcements, FAC/FARs, Peer reviews, XfDs, the COTM, and requested articles. You may desire to watchlist it. A Deletion sorting subpage is also now working to bring together XfDs - this should be bot-driven, but we have not currently tagged enough articles to make this fully automated, so please update the list with any LGBT-related XfDs you come across. Article news Two articles were recently shepherded through the Featured Article process by two of our members - Same-sex marriage in Spain and The Well of Loneliness. Congratulations go to (respectively) Raystorm and Celithemis! Member News We more than doubled our membership this month! 53 new users have joined the Wikiproject: Aleta, Koweja, Profriend, Andrewn, Carolynparrishfan, Cpnlsn88, Brian1979, Tullerk, Garydw, Ganymead, Celithemis, Burnley, Lquilter, Parammon, Forsakendaemon, Allyn, bcatt, Dfeuer, Raystorm, Fabienne1, Esprix, Antanta, Janusvulcan, Elizabeth Lund, Ashleyvh, E. Sn0 =31337=, MiraLuka, White hotel, Zythe, Athena2006, CosmicWaffles, Emiellaiendiay, Musimax, AlexReynolds, Swollib, Nield, Kriza, 100110100, Andral, thickslab, Ronline, Iamvered, FisherQueen, William percy, Viannah, Ssbohio, Ali-oops, Anyaanomaly, Revolución, Ender2155, LuciferMorgan, Kathryn NicDhàna, and Artgoyle. Please make them feel welcome!

To stop receiving this newsletter, or to receive it in a different format, please drop me a line. If you have any news or any announcements to be broadcast, do let Dev920 know.

Hi Kathryn,

Thank you for taking an interest in my recent edits. I'm new to this wiki thing, but as a computer programmer/user since the dawn of time (or at least since 1973) and a former BBS operator (when BBSes were systems, not web apps), I am *very* interested in becoming good at this and would welcome whatever help you may offer.

More to the point--I am a personal friend of Harley Reagan and am interested in making his entry, and the Quodoushka entry, neutral and accurate and then preventing vandalism.

Dr. Reagan is a controversial guy who does controversial things -- and he has a long-time policy of refusing to dignify his attackers by with a response. This, of course, does nothing to discourage them and with the advent and popularity of wikipedia they now have a platform that can no longer be ignored. I have begun the process of working with him and his organization to get permission to fix this and I belive I will be able to do that in the next month or so.

So, I'll need a little time to put together content and get permission to post it. Then I may need a little help driving the wikipedia -- It's very powerful and the interface can be more than a little confusing at times.

Thanks again for your help,

--Bearheart 17:22, 5 February 2007 (UTC) (aka Bill Weinman, http://bw.org/)[reply]

Dear League member,

We've started a participation drive for the remainder of February. If you can, please help clear the backlog by adopting the following goals each week:

• Select an article to copy-edit from the backlog. After your copy-edit, list the article in the articles ready for final proofread section.
• Select a different article to proofread from the articles ready for final proofread section.

Thanks for your help! BuddingJournalist 08:33, 6 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Kathryn, two things:

1. Failte! Welcome to WP:IRA!
2. You mentioned on the MfD page that we had an Irish Republican navbox; are you referring to Template:IRAs? Or another? If it's another one, I'd sure appreciate a link to it. Erin Go Bragh^talk 09:22, 7 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Dear Kathryn, I am very sorry about the edit that my son made on this website. he has abused his privilege to use his computer. I completely agrre with you about the itd time to straiten up. I think he gets the idea though. Thank you for your time and Jordan is also sorry for the bad edit. ( I know this might seem a little bit harsh but I work with websites and I know just how annoying it is) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 209.166.77.24 (talk) 06:40, 12 February 2007 (UTC).[reply]

Thanks Kathryn ;) 86.42.176.24 22:41, 12 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I did not know the people featured personally, but a friend of theirs said they were ok about the picture being used on Wikipedia, he also said that they were Wiccan if I remember correctly, but I don't know which type. Sorry I can't be more helpful, I took the picture purely to illustrate the Wicca article as I felt many articles are low on visuals. - Solar 12:13, 14 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, Solar! That helps a lot :-) ~ Kathryn NicDhàna ♫♦♫ 21:11, 14 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I noticed the photo collage has recently been updated, and although it includes women, I believe it is excluding some very important people to Irish history and identity. Where is Michael Collins, a national hero ? I think he deserves to be there more than Mary McAleese or Bono. Epf 01:25, 15 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, Epf. We had a very long discussion about it here. I wish you would have joined us. I would love to have included Collins, but he wasn't lobbied for in that round. However I do see that in a discussion for the previous version you wanted Bono added :-) The main concerns that emerged in the discussion, to my eye, were that we add women and contemporary figures. It was very difficult to find contemporary images that were appropriately licensed. Consensus wasn't clear between adding *some* women or 50% women, so as the photoshop-monkey I made the decision to go with half. I don't think it's possible to get a version everyone loves, though I do think we managed to come up with one that everyone can live with. Slán ~ Kathryn NicDhàna ♫♦♫ 05:10, 15 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Update: I've added a pic of Michael Collins to the section with the list of Notable Irish People. So far all the pics in that section are men. ~ Kathryn NicDhàna ♫♦♫ 02:59, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

One quote from one outsider from a culture hostile to the celts (Greek) does not qualify as proof of the alleged "historical" nature of Celtic pederasty. In all the volumes of celtic mythology which survive, there are no references to this practice, unlike the reams of evidence from Greece, Rome, or among the Samurai of Japan for example. You are entitled to your opinions, beliefs, and political agendas, but please don't put your beliefs into an historical article as if they were facts. It is a fact that Athenaeus made the comment that he made, it is not by any means a fact that this means his comment was accurate or that this was the reality among the Celts. Until you have proof quit putting this on the page. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Drifter bob (talk • contribs) 01:49, 15 February 2007 (UTC).[reply]

Hi, Bob. I did not originate nor invent the section you are objecting to. I personally have no opinion on the matter, and would prefer to believe that my ancestors only had relationships among consenting adults. I think we need to do a linguistic comparison of what words were used for "boy" vs "man" and what age range we're talking about. I think the reason people bring up the Roman pederasty thing is that some have assumed the various Roman writers were insulting the Celts with those sorts of statements, whereas if we understand that the Romans had homosexuality as an accepted part of their culture, there would be no reason to interpret the report as an insult. I think it is fair to report that historical account. I also think my reversion of your removal of an established part of the article is in accord with the consensus of the group who have been working on the article. A suggestion? I believe things will go better for you if you refrain from edit summaries that accuse people of having "a pedophile agenda." Slán ~ Kathryn NicDhàna ♫♦♫ 04:55, 15 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I apologize if my tone seemed offensive, I should not have assumed that you were the author of this section.

I'm not accusing any individual specifically of having an agenda, but I do suspect that someone somewhere does have an agenda on this particular issue as it seems to get a heavy emphasis and considerable spin in many Wikipedia pages. It is not something I have a particular interest in, but I notice it frequently and in odd contexts. For example, the entire paragraph on family life in this Celtic article is about Pederasty. I don't see how this could possibly represent the principle nature of family life in any culture regardless of whether it was practiced. Maybe a big part of a military brotherhood or of educational practices for example. But family life is principally organized around child rearing as i understand it.

I think the extrapolation was the problem, not the quote. I have attempted to balance it, hopefully you will agree with my reorganization. I'm going to do further research on the subject as well. As for the Romans, as I pointed out in the talk page on the Celts, while a common practice among them Pederasty was also used as the basis of slander, perhaps most famously against Julius Caesar, and also against Tiberius. Many Roman writers complained of the Greek practice of pederasty of students sent to study with them. Read the Wikipedia page on Caesar to cite one example of this practice used as political slander.

Bottom line though is, again as I stated, I find it unlikely that this would be a widespread practice if there is no evidence of it in the literature of the Celts (at least that I know of), and also every society I know of where it was practiced widely were societies in which women were repressed, tightly controlled, and had a second class status to men, as with the Greeks, Samurai subculture in Japan, or in some Islamic contexts. I don't think this was the case with the Celts.

I'm interested in what the Celts were really like, if they indeed practiced pederasty than I want to know that, but I felt and still feel that the claim which was made was in fact placed there as part of an agenda which has more to do with modern politics than with ancient history.

Drifter bob 15:22, 15 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, Bob. I'll take a look at the changes you made. I agree that the paragraph as it stood yesterday definitely placed undue weight on theories of homosexuality among the Celts. While I don't want the theories deleted, the section must be expanded to be fair. While there are other tales about homosexuality among the Celts (a Middle Irish story about a lesbian relationship, for instance, which is treated as neither unusual or shameful in the text; I'll dig it up if we want it), I think then, just as now, that those who identified as exclusively homosexual were definitely in the minority and this should be reflected in the article.

I am a bit confused about what time frame we're covering with that article. If we're just focusing on the Gauls, which some editors seem to have done, the statement that we have limited knowledge of Celtic family life is sort of true. But if we're including a later time period, there's a very significant amount known about early Irish family life. We can look to the Brehon laws, for instance. It is true that, in comparison to other patriarchal cultures of the time, women had a better lot in Ireland than in most other places; but life wasn't great for them. It's a brutal book, and I don't agree with everything in it, by any means, but Lisa Bitel's Land of Women is a pretty intense examination of Irish women's situation historically. ~ Kathryn NicDhàna ♫♦♫ 21:17, 15 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Kathryn,

I wrote the stub for Kevin Danaher the folklorist and had finished a complete article when I saw you had expanded it. I'm a newbie to Wikipedia and have just noticed that close relatives are not allowed to work on articles (I'm his son). However I have derived my article entirely from published sources, without any personal reminiscences. Can I collate your work and mine, or should I send you my stuff for you to decide what to include?

Hypnopomp 11:39, 15 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Fáilte to Wikipedia, Hypno! As someone who has benefited greatly from your father's work, it is an honor to meet you. My condolences on his passing; he will continue to be missed by so many. There are customs that are observed in my family that I did not know were widespread and traditional until I read your father's books. So his work has meant a lot to me personally as well as vocationally.

I suggest you post your version of the article on the article's talk page. Then we (and any others interested in working on the article) can look it over together and decide how best to merge them. I look forward to working with you, and just let me know if you have any questions or concerns, whether about the article or about Wikipedia in general. Slán! ~ Kathryn NicDhàna ♫♦♫ 21:17, 15 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your help and sympathy, Kathryn. I've posted the draft article in the talk page, as you suggest. Also I can provide photographs of and by KD. As his executor I control the copyrights so that will not be a problem. Hypnopomp 22:00, 15 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I think it would be great to have some photos with the article! The tool bar at the left has the "upload file" option. Just upload the image and make sure you indicate which licensing you want for it. It's explained pretty well on the page, but if you need any help, just ask. Slán! ~ Kathryn NicDhàna ♫♦♫ 20:31, 26 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This is related more to your non-Wikipedia expertise, but do you know correct pronunciations for "Taranis" and "Eochaid Ollathair?" I know "Taranis" should be "Tha-ra-nish," but is the "i" pronounced "eye" or "ee," and on which syllable does the emphasis come?

As for "Eochaid Ollathair," (spelling varies, of course), I believe the second part would be something like "oh-la-heer," but the first? I'm at a loss.

If you could help, I'd appreciate it. I don't have anyone convenient that I can ask who'd be likely to know with any kind of reliability; you're the closest thing to an expert that I "know."

Thanks,

*Septegram*Talk*Contributions* 22:56, 15 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hey Sept, sorry for the delayed response. I got busy, and then I wanted to double-check with someone who has better Irish, and who can render the pronunciations in IPA. I can generally hazard Ulster Gaeilge pronunciations, as they're not too far off from the Gàidhlig, but I'm still getting up to speed with the IPA.

What we know of Gaulish is largely reconstructed, and pronunciation is open to debate, so your guess with Taranis is probably close enough. I've also heard it pronounced with the hard "T". I'd say the "i" would be either an "ih" or an "ee" sound. There's a YahooGroup for reconstructed Gaulish, I think it's called CelticConLang.

In the Goidelic languages, accent is almost always on the first syllable of words. From Angr, with whom I double-checked this: "Eochaid was something like [ˈeoxɨðʲ] in Old Irish and would be spelled Eochaidh and pronounced [ˈoxiː] in Modern Irish. ... Ollathair in IPA: Old Irish [ˈɔɫ̪ˌaθɨɾʲ], Modern [ˈɔɫ̪ˌahəɾʲ]." These things vary a bit with dialect, but that should cover it :-) ~ Kathryn NicDhàna ♫♦♫ 08:36, 24 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you kindly. I'm going to have to go research what the pronunciation symbols mean, now... {grin} *Septegram*Talk*Contributions* 15:30, 26 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I know, IPA is weird weird weird, but I figured you wanted it for an article, and that's the standard we're moving to on WP. I initially wrote something up in rough phonetics, but realized that with English dialects, those things can wind up being sort of useless. I still need to get more up to speed with IPA myself, but I think it's worth it. ~ Kathryn NicDhàna ♫♦♫ 19:44, 26 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Butting in: Wasn't Taranis always rendered in Latin or Greek anyway (presumably translated from some Galli-Belgæc dialect)? So if the Romans were transcribing it by sound (presuming that is what they were doing) it would be pronounced with a T not an 'Th'. If the name derives from Proto Indo-European as Grimm suggests, it would definitely be a T and the terminal -is would be pronounced like a -uz. - WeniWidiWiki 20:25, 26 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Someone from another source told me "T" as well, although I have heard that the "T" was hard but slightly aspirated; not sure how to transcribe that.

*Septegram*Talk*Contributions* 20:31, 26 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I think there are a lot of puzzled CVU members who don't understand why the warning templates were deleted. Further, I can't seem to find the evidence that there was a consensus to delete them. On the contrary, I see almost unanimous support to keep them. Check out this. I would fully support a reopening of the debate on the topic. -- Mufka ^{(user) (talk) (contribs)} 21:54, 23 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I agree wholeheartedly, and would be glad to help re-open the discussion and get the templates put back in. The diff you provided also seems to me to show clear consensus for keeping them. This user has some templates we could consider: User:Sbrools/Sandbox ~ Kathryn NicDhàna ♫♦♫ 22:05, 23 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

OK. I'm going to try to find at least a few supporters who should be notified when the topic comes up for debate again. I was thinking that I'd create a side discussion page for organization so that the organization effort doesn't clutter up people's talk pages. More to follow. -- Mufka ^{(user) (talk) (contribs)} 23:08, 23 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for raising this with me, I have a few thoughts:

1. I dunno how publicised this proposal has been. I know WP:CANVASS makes it a little difficult to know how best to do this, but I think a neutrally worded note about the barnstar proposal at Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals) explaining why the barnstar is proposed and why it is different from the "Editor's Barnstar" would be acceptable.
2. Consensus needed. This has always been a vague area. I think two weeks of discussion usually has to occur and there has to be a strong concensus in favour. 17+ support with negligable oppposition definitely meets that hurdle. I guess its just a question of when the clock starts ticking given the premature close last time. To be safe, give it another 6 days. Particularly concensus is needed as to which version of the award is prefered.
3. Evrik has no special authority over the awards proposals page much as he seems to imply it. His actions there should be considered the same as any other editor. Anyone can at the end of the debate close the discussion and pronounce on concensus.
4. I do have a small suggestion- as well as spelling, punctuation and grammar, could fixing Wikilinks also be included. I know its an activity peculiar to this encyclopedia but its usually something I do at the same time as fix the other things (and further distinguishes this award from the "Editor's Barnstar". As I see it this proposed barnstar is about positive improvements that do not change the text, the "Editor's Barnstar" is about removing content in a positive manner.
5. Image. You're probably tired of producing new versions of this, but there a slightly different format I'd like to see tried out. What I have in mind looks like (2). But the quill and broom are flattened (i.e. the shape they take in (1) ). Then instead of crossing over in the middle of the Barnstar, they do so over it, so that they are in line with the near horizontal line created by the most left and right points. If you can bear to give that a try (and understand what I mean) I'd be grateful.

Hope that helps. I am unhappy with Evrik's behaviour in the matter and intend to look into it further. WjBscribe 10:09, 28 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Excellent points, thank you! I'm not sure I'm seeing what you mean... ok, keeping the same angle between the quill and broom, but moving them up... how high? and reducing them in size? I'm willing to give it another go but am not sure I'm seeing it. At what spot on the star would the quill and broom cross each other? ~ Kathryn NicDhàna ♫♦♫ 03:17, 1 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

PS - How about if you propose the additional text about Wikilinks? I agree it's worth including, but would prefer it if you propose it so I don't lose anything in translation. ~ Kathryn NicDhàna ♫♦♫ 03:32, 1 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Evrik has a pathological hatred of new barnstars - he'll oppose them even when to make them a WPA is blatently stupid. The reason he gets away with it is because everyone assumes that someone else will promote or archive the discussion, and that someone is generally him. So, if he doesn't want to create a barnstar, the discussion will just sit there for months while everyone is waiting for someone else to promote, and then be archived for "lack of consensus". You clearly have buckets of support and your listing time has run out twice. Evrik, ultimately, has no binding power over the barnstar process, so if you just promote it yourself he can't actually stop you (as he found out with the LGBT Barnstar, which he and southphilly tried to delist on the basis that 72% support and two weeks was "forced through without a lot of support", which ended humiliatingly in an 85% reaffirmation in four weeks). It's been done before. Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 10:29, 1 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The LGBT studies WikiProject Newsletter

The LGBT studies WikiProject Newsletter! Issue IV - March 1, 2007 Monthly Challenge: Find 5 editors to LGBT articles and invite them to the project! Check out our recruitment tips if you need them. Good luck! Project News With such rapid development of the project, it was decided that a Coordinator was needed to ensure all the fiddly maintenence was kept up. Elections were held and Dev920 (talk · contribs) has been elected Coordinator for the next three months. She said "I am honoured and proud to be at the helm of such a fantastic WikiProject and look forward to our future". Congratulations Dev! The assessment system continues to be a great success, we have tagged over 5200 articles! Please tag any LGBT related articles you come across by adding {{LGBTProject | class=}} to the talkpage. Please see the Assessment Department for how to assess an article according to the grading system. Jumpaclass is proving to be quite successful! The winner at the end of the year gets to pick the January collaboration, so sign up and get going! Or challenge another user to see how far you can jump a stub! A new Community department has been set up to foster community amongst our members. It mostly acts as other WikiProjects' Outreach department, but also has a Quilt to which every member is entitled to add a square containing anything of their choice. The peer review is not getting much custom - please notice you can cross-list other peer reviews from different projects that also fall within our scope. Many people still seem to be unaware that the Deletion sorting subpage exists for XfDs to be listed: please use and watch that page instead of issuing "alerts" for ordinary AfDs on the project talkpage. WP:FILM has a current drive to give every film article an infobox. WP:LGBT successfully gave all 105 LGBT infoboxless films infoboxes, so a big thank you to everyone who participated. A new template, LGBT-footer, has been created for articles which are becoming to cluttered with infoboxes. Thanks to WJBscribe and SatyrTN for creating it. A very basic resources page has been started. Please add to it as you come across useful sites. A promotional poster for the project has been created: http://wplgbt.tripod.com/Wikipedianeedsyou.doc (you have to directly cut and paste the url, or it won't let you download it). Please distribute anywhere and everywhere you desire, such as gay libraries, cybercafes, community centres and so on. Also, please let Dev920 know where you have put it up, so she can keep track of our coverage. An LGBT Publications Taskforce has been proposed. Please sign up here if you are interested in being involved. An LGBT WikiProject has been set up on the Spanish Wikipedia! Set up by Raystorm, it has already gained six members and is developing an assessment system. If you speak any Spanish, please consider going up and lending a hand if you can! Article News An LGBT article, Homosexual readings of Jesus and John, made it onto the main page as a DYK this month. Congratulations to Haiduc, who wrote the article. Another article, Same-sex marriage in Italy, also made it onto the main page as a DYK this month. Congratulations to Raystorm, who wrote the article. And another article, George Cecil Ives, made it to the front page DYKs this month. Congratulations to Zefrog, who wrote the article. Member News Our membership continues to expand. 55 new users have joined the Wikiproject: HalJor, Brianna Austin, Kylehamilton , PeaceNT, Paradoxdept, Joie de Vivre, Bearcat, Avazina, Treybien, Xdenizen, Chalyres, Lisapollison, Stitchy CP, Wjhonson, Psicorps, Jliberty, Zuejay, DrGaellon, Mallanox, lwollert, Switchercat, Number301, emerson7, Ebyabe, Ashlux, Larrybob, Eirra, Alcarcalimo2364, DavidShankBone, Cedlaod, Mcguireka, Fireplace, Jacobshaven3, Buddmar, Yksin, Intesvensk, Justin_Eiler, kc12286, Kolindigo, PseudoPhoenix, Samanthabrennan, Anbellofe, roger_jg, Moni3, The Wednesday Island, Carom, Belovedfreak, My little needle, Fenoxielo, Arianna, Philippebeaudette, FrankCostanza, AmberAlert1713, A.Z., Fluffball70, . Please make them feel welcome! To stop receiving this newsletter, or to receive it in a different format, please drop me a line. If you have any news or any announcements to be broadcast, do let Dev920 know.